Surface Pro 4 vs iPad Pro and the future of pro tablets

[yillbs]

The form factor versus size, and price should not matter. They can't be compared. you CANT achieve the same desktop class experience, no matter how hard you try. that's like comparing my Camaro SS to your Camaro v6 to see which has better performance. What im getting at, is it's not fair to put a mobile device in a comparison with a desktop device and expect it to compete. We all already know apple is going to be more expensive, as it's a premium brand. The fact that windows DOESNT offer mobile operating systems on tablets SHOULD tell you something. I guess if your comparing it spec to spec it could suffice, but even then, the results are useless because in real world, it simply can't compete.

If you're going to compare 2 in 1 that microsoft is releasing, then i think it would be best suited to compare it to a new MBP, it's the first microsoft laptop actually made, and that's essentially what it is, a notebook computer that happens to function as a tablet device, not a tablet device that happens to function as a notebook, the ipad pro is a tablet that happens to function as a notebook should you purchase the addons. No amount of justification can justify the need to compare the two, imo.

 

[sracer]

I'm more or less confused why people keep comparing a mobile operating system to a full blow desktop operating system. The mobile OS doenst really have much of a chance, it's an unfair comparison. Are these threads created because people don't know the ipad pro runs IOS, and not OSX ?

The operating system is nothing more than an enabler. At the root of the issue are the applications. Rich and robust apps running on a mobile OS can be every bit as capable of performing tasks as apps running on a desktop OS. There are obviously limitations with regard to connectivity/expandability but those limitations aren't inherent in the "mobile-ness" of an OS but by the hardware that supports that platform.

All that to say, depending upon one's use cases and workflows, an iPad is more likely to be limited because of the hardware and app limitations than because it is running iOS.

 

[yillbs]

The operating system is nothing more than an enabler. At the root of the issue are the applications. Rich and robust apps running on a mobile OS can be every bit as capable of performing tasks as apps running on a desktop OS. There are obviously limitations with regard to connectivity/expandability but those limitations aren't inherent in the "mobile-ness" of an OS but by the hardware that supports that platform.

All that to say, depending upon one's use cases and workflows, an iPad is more likely to be limited because of the hardware and app limitations than because it is running iOS.

comparing IOS to Windows Desktop is a stretch, i wont try to reason with you, becuase their is no way you can logically think that way. If people thought that, then we wouldn't need OSx. I understand the need to justify it, but it's not justifiable....

App limitations stem from IOS. your limited by to many on going issues a MOBILE platform can't handle. That mobile platform is also using MOBILE hardware. I simply can't fathom what you, or anyone else is saying when they compare the machines this way. Bottom line is it's mobile hardware, on a mobile framework, running mobile software. The windows variant is not, it's running desktop class hardware, with desktop / enterprise class software. It's not comparable. Sorry, but it's just not. Regardless of WHAT the limiting factor is, it's still limiting.

 

[sracer]

comparing IOS to Windows Desktop is a stretch, i wont try to reason with you, becuase their is no way you can logically think that way. If people thought that, then we wouldn't need OSx. I understand the need to justify it, but it's not justifiable....

If you are thinking that I feel the need to justify something (implying that I'm defending something) then this is where I formally exit this conversation.

carry on.

 

[AFEPPL]

I'd also take the SP4 over the iPad pro.
Its just a much more complete device.

 

[I7guy]

Regardless, the IPP at 128gb is more expensive than the SP4 at 128gb. I haven't seen a side by side comparison of the styli but from what I understand they both function very nicely. The IPP stylus has the tilt detection which is nice. The SP4 stylus is included so you can't lose with that either.

The ip4 starts at a lower price point, has wireless ac and runs millions of apps from the App Store and is NOT Windows.

 

[I7guy]

I'd also take the SP4 over the iPad pro.
Its just a much more complete device.

And a complex device. Even though the use cases overlap for both devices, you get to decide. The hardware of the sp4 goes way above the ipp but so does the price.

 

[I7guy]

comparing IOS to Windows Desktop is a stretch, i wont try to reason with you, becuase their is no way you can logically think that way. If people thought that, then we wouldn't need OSx. I understand the need to justify it, but it's not justifiable....

App limitations stem from IOS. your limited by to many on going issues a MOBILE platform can't handle. That mobile platform is also using MOBILE hardware. I simply can't fathom what you, or anyone else is saying when they compare the machines this way. Bottom line is it's mobile hardware, on a mobile framework, running mobile software. The windows variant is not, it's running desktop class hardware, with desktop / enterprise class software. It's not comparable. Sorry, but it's just not. Regardless of WHAT the limiting factor is, it's still limiting.

It's only limited based on your use case. Even though there is a price overlap, I think some have under estimated why the ipp may be desirable.

 

[spinedoc77]

The ip4 starts at a lower price point, has wireless ac and runs millions of apps from the App Store and is NOT Windows.

Oh, I thought this thread was titled "Surface Pro 4 vs iPad Pro and the future of pro tablets".

 

[spinedoc77]

The form factor versus size, and price should not matter. They can't be compared. you CANT achieve the same desktop class experience, no matter how hard you try. that's like comparing my Camaro SS to your Camaro v6 to see which has better performance. What im getting at, is it's not fair to put a mobile device in a comparison with a desktop device and expect it to compete. We all already know apple is going to be more expensive, as it's a premium brand. The fact that windows DOESNT offer mobile operating systems on tablets SHOULD tell you something. I guess if your comparing it spec to spec it could suffice, but even then, the results are useless because in real world, it simply can't compete.

If you're going to compare 2 in 1 that microsoft is releasing, then i think it would be best suited to compare it to a new MBP, it's the first microsoft laptop actually made, and that's essentially what it is, a notebook computer that happens to function as a tablet device, not a tablet device that happens to function as a notebook, the ipad pro is a tablet that happens to function as a notebook should you purchase the addons. No amount of justification can justify the need to compare the two, imo.

While I agree, you are asking something a bit nonsensical. Of course when consumers see a tablet close to the same size and price they are going to have some kind of comparison. Obviously iOS and windows are quite different, but there are many similarities. As simply consumption devices they are very comparable, my SP3 can consume just as well as an ipad, so if I was a consumer looking for a consumption device I might compare the 2. You might not think it's fair, but it's reality.

I agree with you on the surface book, different functionality and pricing.

 

[ravenvii]

I'm also torn between the SP4 and iPad Pro. From where I stand: OS X is my preferred desktop OS, while iOS is my preferred tablet OS. But Windows stands right in the middle, doing a competent job in both camps.

I currently use a 2011 MBA, which the Surface blows away, and an iPad 3 which is on its last legs. The Surface would replace both. But I plan to upgrade to an iMac once I graduate next year, so the Surface will be relegated to solely doing tablet duties -- which the iPad Pro will do better, in my opinion.

I'm leaning towards the iPad Pro to replace my iPad 3, and sticking with the MBA until I graduate.

But the SP4 is damn tempting I admit -- I loved my SP3 when I had it.

 

[yillbs]

While I agree, you are asking something a bit nonsensical. Of course when consumers see a tablet close to the same size and price they are going to have some kind of comparison. Obviously iOS and windows are quite different, but there are many similarities. As simply consumption devices they are very comparable, my SP3 can consume just as well as an ipad, so if I was a consumer looking for a consumption device I might compare the 2. You might not think it's fair, but it's reality.

I agree with you on the surface book, different functionality and pricing.

I recon i can

While I agree, you are asking something a bit nonsensical. Of course when consumers see a tablet close to the same size and price they are going to have some kind of comparison. Obviously iOS and windows are quite different, but there are many similarities. As simply consumption devices they are very comparable, my SP3 can consume just as well as an ipad, so if I was a consumer looking for a consumption device I might compare the 2. You might not think it's fair, but it's reality.

I agree with you on the surface book, different functionality and pricing.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Can't compare two products that aren't in the same league, hardware, or software.

 

[I7guy]

Oh, I thought this thread was titled "Surface Pro 4 vs iPad Pro and the future of pro tablets".

Right, but these two similarly priced gadgets have different missions although there is a lot in common. Time will tell.

 

[I7guy]

I recon i can


We'll just have to agree to disagree. Can't compare two products that aren't in the same league, hardware, or software.

They're in different leagues and each has qualities the other doesn't and everybody's use case is different.

 

[vladi]

If we are talking about Pro usage then iPP offers one hell of a fragmented experience that needs a workaround to bring it all together. But that has been apps philosophy since the beginning, get one thing done and get out. Like take a note or something. I've said if from the day one that one and only thing that is holding back iPP is un-optimized iOS you get with it. But lets give it some time maybe productive apps will overcome the limitations at mobile OS foundation.

 

[MRU]

As someone who works with a stylus every day of my working career I have tried many tablets for illustrating.

Microsoft surface on paper seems ideal, indeed I bought a SP2 for the exact reason. The big issue remains that as a device for illustrating there are so many negatives about windows / illustrating software and hi-dpi that actually make what should be an ideal scenario an absolute exercise in frustration and often completely broken experience.

Whilst the iPad Pro may not seem the better choice on paper because of what maybe limitations. These limitations often create better scenarios for productivity (by being focused entirely on the task at hand and optimised specifically for the platform).

Sketchbook Pro on the Note Pro for example is infinitely more optimised in its true tablet form than it is running as a desktop app on a surface pro.

Corel painter mobile likewise runs better and works better despite limited feature set compared to the full version that frankly works horribly on the surface pro with broken GUI and horrendous performance / lag input.

Many third party apps remain broken at hi-dpi scaling on windows and when viewing at 100% GUI scale to fix the issues in scaling wirhin these drawing apps, windows menus and navigation becomes an absolute chore and hard on the eyes.

The iPad pro offers to me tighter control and optimised apps that should in theory if it echoes the Note Pro 12.2 experience a far more productive and workable solution to drawing and illustrating than a Surface does (emphasise for me).

This is of course specific to how I use and what I do with them. For many the reverse may prove to be the case.

I see the iPad pro being a central part of my current workflow and slotting into my everyday toolset with ease. For me it represents a far better choice both productively and financially than the surface pro 4.

However, the fact remains these devices are not for everyone and there is no right or wrong choice about which is better because it is entirely dependent on the individual.

I do not understand why there has to be a glorified pissing match between these devices.

But one that suits your needs or buy neither. Both are likely to be excellent at the end of the day. Value / Worth / Productivity is entirely user subjective.

What maybe pros to one person could be negatives to another. What may in theory make one device superior on paper could as in my experience make it inferior in practice dependent on each persons specific needs.

Basically buy which you think suits your needs the greatest. Or buy neither.

 

[spinedoc77]

As someone who works with a stylus every day of my working career I have tried many tablets for illustrating.

Microsoft surface on paper seems ideal, indeed I bought a SP2 for the exact reason. The big issue remains that as a device for illustrating there are so many negatives about windows / illustrating software and hi-dpi that actually make what should be an ideal scenario an absolute exercise in frustration and often completely broken experience.

Whilst the iPad Pro may not seem the better choice on paper because of what maybe limitations. These limitations often create better scenarios for productivity (by being focused entirely on the task at hand and optimised specifically for the platform).

Sketchbook Pro on the Note Pro for example is infinitely more optimised in its true tablet form than it is running as a desktop app on a surface pro.

Corel painter mobile likewise runs better and works better despite limited feature set compared to the full version that frankly works horribly on the surface pro with broken GUI and horrendous performance / lag input.

Many third party apps remain broken at hi-dpi scaling on windows and when viewing at 100% GUI scale to fix the issues in scaling wirhin these drawing apps, windows menus and navigation becomes an absolute chore and hard on the eyes.

The iPad pro offers to me tighter control and optimised apps that should in theory if it echoes the Note Pro 12.2 experience a far more productive and workable solution to drawing and illustrating than a Surface does (emphasise for me).

This is of course specific to how I use and what I do with them. For many the reverse may prove to be the case.

I see the iPad pro being a central part of my current workflow and slotting into my everyday toolset with ease. For me it represents a far better choice both productively and financially than the surface pro 4.

However, the fact remains these devices are not for everyone and there is no right or wrong choice about which is better because it is entirely dependent on the individual.

I do not understand why there has to be a glorified pissing match between these devices.

But one that suits your needs or buy neither. Both are likely to be excellent at the end of the day. Value / Worth / Productivity is entirely user subjective.

What maybe pros to one person could be negatives to another. What may in theory make one device superior on paper could as in my experience make it inferior in practice dependent on each persons specific needs.

Basically buy which you think suits your needs the greatest. Or buy neither.

You do realize that if every single little thing wasn't a glorified pissing match then these forums would cease to exist.

 

[yillbs]

As someone who works with a stylus every day of my working career I have tried many tablets for illustrating.

Microsoft surface on paper seems ideal, indeed I bought a SP2 for the exact reason. The big issue remains that as a device for illustrating there are so many negatives about windows / illustrating software and hi-dpi that actually make what should be an ideal scenario an absolute exercise in frustration and often completely broken experience.

Whilst the iPad Pro may not seem the better choice on paper because of what maybe limitations. These limitations often create better scenarios for productivity (by being focused entirely on the task at hand and optimised specifically for the platform).

Sketchbook Pro on the Note Pro for example is infinitely more optimised in its true tablet form than it is running as a desktop app on a surface pro.

Corel painter mobile likewise runs better and works better despite limited feature set compared to the full version that frankly works horribly on the surface pro with broken GUI and horrendous performance / lag input.

Many third party apps remain broken at hi-dpi scaling on windows and when viewing at 100% GUI scale to fix the issues in scaling wirhin these drawing apps, windows menus and navigation becomes an absolute chore and hard on the eyes.

The iPad pro offers to me tighter control and optimised apps that should in theory if it echoes the Note Pro 12.2 experience a far more productive and workable solution to drawing and illustrating than a Surface does (emphasise for me).

This is of course specific to how I use and what I do with them. For many the reverse may prove to be the case.

I see the iPad pro being a central part of my current workflow and slotting into my everyday toolset with ease. For me it represents a far better choice both productively and financially than the surface pro 4.

However, the fact remains these devices are not for everyone and there is no right or wrong choice about which is better because it is entirely dependent on the individual.

I do not understand why there has to be a glorified pissing match between these devices.

But one that suits your needs or buy neither. Both are likely to be excellent at the end of the day. Value / Worth / Productivity is entirely user subjective.

What maybe pros to one person could be negatives to another. What may in theory make one device superior on paper could as in my experience make it inferior in practice dependent on each persons specific needs.

Basically buy which you think suits your needs the greatest. Or buy neither.

i agree about the pissing match! I also agree this has everything you want to do with it. So if you want a MOBILE platform, something you are familiar with, then you will look at the MOBILE operating system tablets, ipads, asus e-pads, nexus tablets, etc. If you want a NOTEBOOK ( traditionally ), or laptop experience, then you will look at the surface pro, yoga's, etc. I don't understand how anyone can argue that fact. Threads like this do make it fun to get the views of others though!

 

[whodatrr]

Mac household here, for decades. iMac, a couple MBAs, MBP, iPhones, several iPads, and quite a few ATVs.

We just bought our 2nd Surface, today. This was to replace my woman's 2012 MBA 11 that finally took a dump. When looking at all the options, she liked the small size and tablet capabilities of the Surface 3 (non-Pro model). She only uses Office a bit, and spends most of her time consuming content. For her, this works.

I also have a PS3 that's giving my iMac 27 and MBA 13 a serious run for its money. It blows away my MBA in the performance department, and keeps up with my 2012 iMac 27. When I have it docked with two 27 high res display, I'm lacking for nothing.

But the biggest thing for the way that I work is being able to immediately switch from casual consumption to serious creation. Now, if I get a work email with a PPT or Excel attached, and can view edit and distribute without even getting up. Yeah, there are iOS versions of Office, but they just aren't the same and have formatting issues.

Continuum is a dream in the way it switches from tablet mode to desktop, automatically when you remove the keyboard or flip it to the rear.

Win 8 was awkward. Really, I saw where they wanted to go, but I just couldn't get there with them. Win 10 is outstanding! It's designed for the way that I want to work. It does take a bit of getting used to, after a couple decades mostly on the Mac. But once you get the hang of it, it's very efficient. My Swag is, as a desktop, it's probably about 95% as good as OSX. As a tablet, it's probably now about 85% as good as IOS. But doing both is priceless! And every Microsoft update seems to notch those percentages forward.

And even the prospect of being able to plug my phone into a KB/Display to edit a big excel spreadsheet, while on the road... Whoa!

Oh, and people who are saying that touch capability on a laptop is a gimmick haven't lived with it for a while. It's that capability that's caused smudges on my iMac and MBA, as I keep touching their screens in vain attempts to scroll windows or pinch them... LOL

Started working for a Mac software company in the early 90's and have been a fanboy since, but color me impressed!!!

BTW, while the MS announcement was stellar, my SP3 is still good enough for me, at least for the next year or two. After that, I'll probably replace it with another SP Pro. While the Surface Book is interesting, batter life is too short when it's in tablet mode. Then again, maybe when I see it in the flesh I'll change my mind and wish they had had bought one, and gifted my woman my SP3? LOL

 

[spinedoc77]

i agree about the pissing match! I also agree this has everything you want to do with it. So if you want a MOBILE platform, something you are familiar with, then you will look at the MOBILE operating system tablets, ipads, asus e-pads, nexus tablets, etc. If you want a NOTEBOOK ( traditionally ), or laptop experience, then you will look at the surface pro, yoga's, etc. I don't understand how anyone can argue that fact. Threads like this do make it fun to get the views of others though!

I see it the other way around, why limit yourself to the primitiveness of a mobile platform? Why bother having a desktop computer when you can just dock your tablet in and have a FULL pc experience, I sure as hell don't want a blown up mobile solution on my 40" external monitor. Then when it's time to ease back that same exact tablet will consume content just as well as any mobile platform. Now if a mobile platform is your cup of tea that's great, they have some great features to them. But it always amazes me that someone who uses a mobile platform finds it so baffling why someone would want something more powerful.

 

[Truefan31]

I think it really depends on what you want. If you want a great tablet get the ipp. It remains to be seen how productive the ipp can be but I don't doubt that apps will be there. The apps are a definite advantage to the ipp imo. The sp4 looks really nice but again they're goal is to try to give you both a tablet and laptop. Question is whether it's succeeding. Microsoft definitely made a splash it's just a matter of how well it will work.

 

[whodatrr]

There is certainly room for both approaches, and neither is right or wrong.

Many will agree with the Apple Vision, and see these hybrid devices as toaster-refrigerators. They will, to some extent, have a point. Just like a Swiss Army knife will never be as good at individual tasks then a box of tools, a hybrid device won't be as good at mobile as a dedicated device, or at workstation'ing as a desktop.

But many will reject the need to own desktops, laptops, big tablets, small tablets, smart phones, watches and rings. And, while it might be nice to occasionally have a dedicated special-purpose tool, some will opt for fewer or even one tool.

Again, there is no right or wrong smart or dumb answer - it's about the way that YOU want to work.

My SP3 isn't as good of a dedicated tablet as my iPad mini, or Air. But its tablet capabilities continue to improve and have certainly gotten well past "good enough", at least for me. My iPads now gather dust, unless my kids are using them. Admittedly, some of that has to do with my iPhone getting better.

Still, when I want a tablet, I reach for the SP3 because I can switch into laptop mode in a moment. And that's the way I work, but not the way that many others would want to work.

 

[Abazigal]

I'm more or less confused why people keep comparing a mobile operating system to a full blow desktop operating system. The mobile OS doenst really have much of a chance, it's an unfair comparison. Are these threads created because people don't know the ipad pro runs IOS, and not OSX ?

At the risk of sounding obtuse, why can't they?

Getting things done is the end, the OS and software is the means. If I can get a certain task done, does it matter whether I am using a mobile app on a tablet or the full-fledged desktop equivalent on a PC?

Yes, the desktop versions of power apps like Office and Photoshop have more features, but how many people actually need, much less use all those features? Some do, not all will. The world simply does not revolve around Autocad and Photoshop and Visual Basic and office works sitting in front of huge monitors working on giant excel spreadsheets.

 

[whodatrr]

That pretty much describes how I earn my living, as well as most of the people I know. We get paid to spend our days as power users for those environments, and mobile isn't anywhere close. Typing this flanked by five 27" high res displays, BTW... LOL

But you're right in that there are many who do not. I live with a Nurse Practitioner who can pretty much do most of what she needs with a tablet or very small laptop.

There is no right or wring answer, which is why it's nice that there are now divergent approaches.

At the risk of sounding obtuse, why can't they?
The world simply does not revolve around Autocad and Photoshop and Visual Basic and office works sitting in front of huge monitors working on giant excel spreadsheets.

 

[JackieInCo]

Just to point out also that the new pen will not stick magnetically to the SP3. Tried it in the store today.