Surface Pro, Sick!

[zhenya]

Honestly I disagree. I own the Surface RT and a laptop. I use my Surface for 90% of the things I normally did on my icore 7 15.6 inch laptop. Its much more portable, comfortable to use in tablet form and when used with the touch cover on a flat surface I still manage to get my work done.

Now if I had the Surface Pro I wouldn't need the laptop at all since it remains docked to my 26inch monitor which the surface can easily do.

Now you say the Pro is a worst tablet than the iPad, in some ways yes (apps, longer battery life) but the iPad lacks usb, digital inking- a huge benefit on a slate!, flash support , and many other things that you compromised your workflow with. Etc

Now the question is would someone be contented with a surface pro + smartphone instead of a ultrabook +iPad mini + smartphone and I say yes!

Having worked with the Surface Pro for several days now, I can't see how that's an honest assessment. Going from a 15.6" laptop to the 10.6" Surface is a huge detriment to usability. Like I've said, I have solid 20/10 vision and working with the Surface at laptop distances is a huge strain. It works in a pinch, but there is no question a larger screen is more efficient.

Nor can the Surface 'easily' dock to a monitor. It requires re-scaling everything which means delving into desktop menus PLUS logging out. Lets be realistic here.

 

[Liquorpuki]

Does the surface work well/ok-ish in a lap?

Does it work well as just a tablet? (and how are the windows store apps on it?)

Would you consider it a full laptop replacement even with the small battery life?

Would you recommend the surface pro now or would you recommend waiting for version 2?

Picked one up on Thurs and took it to Vegas with me. I haven't incorporated it into my workflow yet but so far I really like it and the amount of power in this thing is incredible.

Works fine in my lap. Then again I don't cross my legs or anything like that.

I think it's fine as a tablet though it really depends on what you need out of a tablet. If all you need is a Facebook Portal or an E-Reader or something to give to the 4 year old so he shuts up in the car, you're better off with an iPad Mini or Kindle. This machine is so much more though.

I consider it a full laptop replacement but to me it's also a full tablet replacement.

The only things we know for sure about successive iterations are that it'll use ULV Haswell (eventually Skylake) and the app ecosystem will grow. If battery life is a dealbreaker, I'd wait for the ULV Haswell iteration since the ULV + sleep states should give you at least a 6-7 hour device. If not enough cheap crappy apps are a dealbreaker, I don't know why you'd go for a Surface Pro in the first place.

 

[laserfox]

Having worked with the Surface Pro for several days now, I can't see how that's an honest assessment. Going from a 15.6" laptop to the 10.6" Surface is a huge detriment to usability. Like I've said, I have solid 20/10 vision and working with the Surface at laptop distances is a huge strain. It works in a pinch, but there is no question a larger screen is more efficient.

Nor can the Surface 'easily' dock to a monitor. It requires re-scaling everything which means delving into desktop menus PLUS logging out. Lets be realistic here.

Huge detriment to usability in your opinion sir. This is an honest assessment in my use case. I go from my 15.6 inch to my surface with no big deal. When I do want to work I dock it on my desk. The scaling issue might be a pain though but isn't it simply going to control panel and adjusting the dpi manually? A pain yes but hardly unusable.

Yes a larger screen can be useful I am not saying no, but given that millions of people bought those 10.1 netbooks tells me people can live with it.

 

[pesos]

Huge detriment to usability in your opinion sir. This is an honest assessment in my use case. I go from my 15.6 inch to my surface with no big deal. When I do want to work I dock it on my desk. The scaling issue might be a pain though but isn't it simply going to control panel and adjusting the dpi manually? A pain yes but hardly unusable.

Yes a larger screen can be useful I am not saying no, but given that millions of people bought those 10.1 netbooks tells me people can live with it.

Agreed. I used it as my sole machine for a week and was quite productive - that is a function of resolution, not screen size (for me at least).

 

[zhenya]

The scaling issue might be a pain though but isn't it simply going to control panel and adjusting the dpi manually? A pain yes but hardly unusable.

Once you do that you ALSO have to log out. Each time you connect OR disconnect from a monitor. That's a huge interruption to a workflow if you intend to do it more than once every day or so.

 

[pesos]

Once you do that you ALSO have to log out. Each time you connect OR disconnect from a monitor. That's a huge interruption to a workflow if you intend to do it more than once every day or so.

Indeed, but if you stick to 125% it is quite usable both on the surface and an external monitor, avoiding the issue altogether.

 

[zhenya]

Huge detriment to usability in your opinion sir.

Perhaps, but do you really think that if a study were performed where participants were asked to complete a series of tasks - one on a Surface Pro with a type or touch cover, and the other on a 15" laptop, that the scores would be similar? It's certainly not the case for me.

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Indeed, but if you stick to 125% it is quite usable both on the surface and an external monitor, avoiding the issue altogether.

Not really. 125% is an irritation in the long term on a monitor, and, having spent most of my time at just that setting, it is really too small for touch. In order to make the desktop semi-functional as a touch environment, you need150%. At 125% I could get most targets most of the time with my fingers. Unless they were on the edges, or worse yet in the corners (and desktop Windows has a lot of important controls in those areas). In that case I pretty much had to resort to the stylus or the trackpad.

 

[pesos]

Perhaps, but do you really think that if a study were performed where participants were asked to complete a series of tasks - one on a Surface Pro with a type or touch cover, and the other on a 15" laptop, that the scores would be similar? It's certainly not the case for me.

Surprisingly (even to myself) I find myself as productive if not more so than when I was working on my rMBP. I think the element you may be underestimating is the touch screen. What I've found is that now that I've adjusted to a hybrid input model (touch screen plus type cover's trackpad) I navigate far faster overall than I do just with the rMBP trackpad. When I sit down at conventional machines now I find myself compulsively touching the screens at certain points as I have now so tightly integrated touch into my navigation. An external mouse is still faster than either, but that may change as UI continues to become more touch-centric. This is both working directly on Windows 8 and also when I am controlling Server 2012 machines via RDP.

----------

Perhaps, but do you really think that if a study were performed where participants were asked to complete a series of tasks - one on a Surface Pro with a type or touch cover, and the other on a 15" laptop, that the scores would be similar? It's certainly not the case for me.

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Not really. 125% is an irritation in the long term on a monitor, and, having spent most of my time at just that setting, it is really too small for touch. In order to make the desktop semi-functional as a touch environment, you need150%. At 125% I could get most targets most of the time with my fingers. Unless they were on the edges, or worse yet in the corners (and desktop Windows has a lot of important controls in those areas). In that case I pretty much had to resort to the stylus or the trackpad.

Hmm 125% works great for me on the Surface Pro, and after a couple of days of adjustment I have had no issues with touch - even with apps like RDCMan which have small elements. Touch-oriented apps such as Office 2013 are even easier to work with - I like the subtle changes they made to the UI; things are still easy to find but work much better when using touch mode. I have not had a chance to try out the stylus yet as I forgot to take it on my trip.

 

[Night Spring]

Yes a larger screen can be useful I am not saying no, but given that millions of people bought those 10.1 netbooks tells me people can live with it.

People bought netbooks because nothing better was avaiable. When the iPad came out, it almost instantly killed the netbook, because people discovered that what they had really wanted was a tablet rather than a tiny laptop.

That said, I can see a place for devices like the Surface and full Win8 tablets in general. If I could keep a dock at work and at home, then a Surface could be one device that was a full computer at home and at the office, and a tablet during my commute. It would be super convenient not to have to worry about the setup being different between the home and work computers, while having something to occupy myself when I'm out and about. And I'm sure all-in-one devices like that are the future. But Win8 and Surface miss the mark.

Hardware-wise, people keep saying that the next generation of Intel chips should improve battery, weight, etc. So the hardware tech isn't quite there yet. Software-wise, allowing older Windows programs to simply run as-is in tablet mode is a mistake. That may be necessary for legacy applications, but flagship apps like Office should have been remade for multi-touch. Apple is doing a much better job with iWork for iOS. Basically I want a device that runs iOS when in tablet mode, then seamlessly switxhes to OS X when docked, without user intervention. When I'm using it as a tablet, iWork for iOS would run, and when I dock, I should be able to just keep working on the same document where I left off but this time in iWork for OS X.

I do believe Apple is working toward an all-in-one device like this, but they won't release one until both hardware and software are ready. Microsoft, on the other hand, is using its customers for beta testing their desktop/tablet hybrid OS on hardware that isn't quite up to par. Personally, I'll stick to my iPad/MacBook Air/iMac combo until an all-in-one device that's ready for prime time shows up. I'm betting Apple will get there first, but if Microsoft does, that's ok too.

 

[Rogifan]

I might be in the minority on this site, but a lot of folks on another message board focused solely on the Surface also feel that the RT is the better device.

It is the device without compromise... the Pro is better on paper than it is in real life usage.

The Surface RT has the battery life, is light weight, matched the iPad on price, but also incorporates the Surface's secret sauce: Keyboard, Usb Port, Upgradable storage, kick stand, MS Office, Live Tiles.

The other issues people who have the Pro are realizing is that it sucks to look/run/play with native Windows Apps on a tablet type device. They are not designed for touch and having to now carry around a mouse makes the Surface a tad less portable. You certainly can't hold the tablet and mouse while on a couch...

I know you cannot compare the Pro to an ARM tablet and that is not what I am doing. I am simply stating that the Surface RT does not promise to do something it cannot fully execute on without sacrifices.

How does Office work on the RT? I can't imagine using Excel on a 10" 16:9 screen.

 

[pesos]

How does Office work on the RT? I can't imagine using Excel on a 10" 16:9 screen.

On the Surface RT you have 1366x768 resolution, so excel kind of sucks for all but the basics - just like it does on a MBA with its crappy resolution.

On the Surface PRO you have 1920x1080 so I haven't had any issues with it. YMMV depending on your eyes. I still think the real "wow" devices are yet to come - like the Lenovo Helix, assuming they don't screw it up.

 

[throAU]

Nor can the Surface 'easily' dock to a monitor. It requires re-scaling everything which means delving into desktop menus PLUS logging out. Lets be realistic here.

Also, unless your external monitor is touch-enabled, you've lost the touch UI.

 

[pesos]

Also, unless your external monitor is touch-enabled, you've lost the touch UI.

Thanks for clarifying this point, lol. Too bad Microsoft hasn't figured out that special Apple magic that touch-enables any external monitor you plug into

 

[throAU]

Thanks for clarifying this point, lol. Too bad Microsoft hasn't figured out that special Apple magic that touch-enables any external monitor you plug into

I'm not sure if this is supposed to be a dig at the ipad or not, but of course that is the case there too.

However, the ipad isn't sold as a do it all machine, that has crippled it's traditional UI in favour of touch. Which won't work in scenarios where the surface pro is likely to spend 50% or so of it's life (because if it's spending more than that time as a tablet, you probably bought the wrong tablet - due to the battery life and weight).

 

[pesos]

I'm not sure if this is supposed to be a dig at the ipad or not, but of course that is the case there too.

However, the ipad isn't sold as a do it all machine, that has crippled it's traditional UI in favour of touch. Which won't work in scenarios where the surface pro is likely to spend 50% or so of it's life (because if it's spending more than that time as a tablet, you probably bought the wrong tablet - due to the battery life and weight).

First of all your statement can pretty much be disregarded when it begins with such a ridiculous statement. I guess you haven't actually used win8 because nothing whatsoever is crippled. Touch can be used as a primary or supplemental input method. Works fine either way.

 

[AceCoolie]

I have to laugh at all the hate MS is getting because of the Surface. People must be getting scared. After using the iPad 1, 2, and 3, as well as the iPhone 3gs and 4, I'm finished with Apple. The Surface Pro is the device I've been waiting for.

I picked up my 128G on launch day and have been using it ever since. It's perfect for me. I code on it as well as use it for my photography. It solves all the problems I had with Apple/Android products. That's not to say other tablets are bad, they're not. For a lot of people, they make perfect sense.

But for a lot of other people - far more than Apple fan boys care to admit - traditional tablets with light weight OS's have serious limitations. This is the market the Surface Pro is aimed at and for them, it's an absolute home run.

 

[pesos]

I have to laugh at all the hate MS is getting because of the Surface. People must be getting scared. After using the iPad 1, 2, and 3, as well as the iPhone 3gs and 4, I'm finished with Apple. The Surface Pro is the device I've been waiting for.

I picked up my 128G on launch day and have been using it ever since. It's perfect for me. I code on it as well as use it for my photography. It solves all the problems I had with Apple/Android products. That's not to say other tablets are bad, they're not. For a lot of people, they make perfect sense.

But for a lot of other people - far more than Apple fan boys care to admit - traditional tablets with light weight OS's have serious limitations. This is the market the Surface Pro is aimed at and for them, it's an absolute home run.

No kidding - people here really like to go out of their way to hate on MS. And don't get me wrong, there is plenty to criticize and I could go on and on about stupid decisions they've made, especially prior to 2 years ago. But the Pro is a great machine for today, and shows a glimpse of what is possible over the next 12-18 mo now that MS has lit a fire under the OEMs to get off their asses. I still use my iPhone (although I may start using my HTC 8X more and more as the platform continues to improve), and love my Mini and TB display (although I run Win8 on them 99% of the time). Apple makes great hardware - their software has always been a fail for my purposes.

 

[Night Spring]

But for a lot of other people - far more than Apple fan boys care to admit - traditional tablets with light weight OS's have serious limitations. This is the market the Surface Pro is aimed at and for them, it's an absolute home run.

Strictly speaking, the market is people for whom tablets with light weight OS have serious limitations *and* for whatever reason they don't want to carry a laptop + tablet.

Exactly how large is this market? That is the billion dollar question...

And on another track, has anyone announced or come out with a detachable 13-inch tablet/laptop hybrid? Not ones with screens that flip around but one where the screen detaches completely from the keyboard to act as a tablet. That is what it'll take to make me give um my MacBook Air.

 

[Cod3rror]

Strictly speaking, the market is people for whom tablets with light weight OS have serious limitations *and* for whatever reason they don't want to carry a laptop + tablet.

Exactly how large is this market? That is the billion dollar question...

And on another track, has anyone announced or come out with a detachable 13-inch tablet/laptop hybrid? Not ones with screens that flip around but one where the screen detaches completely from the keyboard to act as a tablet. That is what it'll take to make me give um my MacBook Air.

Not sure how big that market is, however, an iPad is absolutely useless to me, Surface Pro, I'd seriously consider. Not right now, cause it's the first release, however when Intel catches up and their CPUs will allow for thin, fanless, yet powerful devices, I may get a Surface Pro or other Windows 8 tablet.

 

[Liquorpuki]

And on another track, has anyone announced or come out with a detachable 13-inch tablet/laptop hybrid? Not ones with screens that flip around but one where the screen detaches completely from the keyboard to act as a tablet. That is what it'll take to make me give um my MacBook Air.

The Asus Transformer Book does this. Only thing is CNET reported it runs really hot

 

[soulreaver99]

Anyone try Blue Stacks on the Surface Pro? What are your experiences? It runs Android Apps for Mac/Windows (pretty well). Wondering how well it integrates into the Surface Pro.

Thanks!

 

[here2rock]

It is not a laptop or a tablet. It is in between. Love the integrated stand and It does look very sexy!

 

[spinedoc77]

Anyone try Blue Stacks on the Surface Pro? What are your experiences? It runs Android Apps for Mac/Windows (pretty well). Wondering how well it integrates into the Surface Pro.

Thanks!

Bluestacks is complete and utter junk, but I hope they get their act together and make it work someday. I tried the Surface optimized version and it wouldn't work with my surface, I could sort of get it to work if I reduced dpi to 100% but programs ran too slowly to be useful, still needs an incredible amount of optimization. It also failed to run on a couple of laptops and all the atom tablets.

 

[jmgregory1]

For those that question why so many people hate MS - it's because MS has earned the hate. For those born in the 80's or 90's, you may not realize the horrible business practices MS used during their monopoly days. And their continued practice of releasing half baked software and hardware that seems to be developed with zero human intervention or real world use thought processes is exactly why people hate MS.

If you think different, I'd love to hear why any of you think they're great. What exactly are they doing great? Making a laplet that runs 10 year old legacy programs? That's progress? Why not push the legacy program companies to develop new software for a world that has changed? It's akin to wanting Audi to put tape decks into their cars so that you can use your collection of great 80's cassettes.

I understand MS is in an unenviable position as they can't do what Apple did and completely dump legacy support without jeopardizing profit, but the world will keep changing and they're more likely than not to find themselves in real trouble if they don't make some clean slate decisions, IMHO.

 

[ChristianVirtual]

If you think different, I'd love to hear why any of you think they're great. What exactly are they doing great?

For example: hard to beat EXCEL ...
Also over the years hey had good version of OS: Win 3.11, NT 3.51, Windows XP, Win 7. Yes, often it was pain to tweak config.sys, autoexec.bat, Himem.sys or this awful registry to get it running but: the made it consistently available to millions of user and gave us the freedom to choose the hardware.

And they helped Apple in difficult times ...