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TheHateMachine

macrumors 6502a
Sep 18, 2012
846
1,354
Making a laplet that runs 10 year old legacy programs? That's progress? Why not push the legacy program companies to develop new software for a world that has changed? It's akin to wanting Audi to put tape decks into their cars so that you can use your collection of great 80's cassettes.

I understand MS is in an unenviable position as they can't do what Apple did and completely dump legacy support without jeopardizing profit, but the world will keep changing and they're more likely than not to find themselves in real trouble if they don't make some clean slate decisions, IMHO.

I think the blame should be put on corporations who want to stick with their old software and demand legacy support because it is more cost effective. The software companies are making new software, but these companies want to stick with the old software because it just works and upgraded versions for the latest OS aren't really needed that often. If Microsoft bucked the trend then they would be financially shooting themselves in the foot and cutting off future revenue sources. Those companies would just stay on XP/7 forever.
 

Liquorpuki

macrumors 68020
Jun 18, 2009
2,286
8
City of Angels
For those that question why so many people hate MS - it's because MS has earned the hate. For those born in the 80's or 90's, you may not realize the horrible business practices MS used during their monopoly days. And their continued practice of releasing half baked software and hardware that seems to be developed with zero human intervention or real world use thought processes is exactly why people hate MS.

If you think different, I'd love to hear why any of you think they're great. What exactly are they doing great? Making a laplet that runs 10 year old legacy programs? That's progress? Why not push the legacy program companies to develop new software for a world that has changed? It's akin to wanting Audi to put tape decks into their cars so that you can use your collection of great 80's cassettes.

I understand MS is in an unenviable position as they can't do what Apple did and completely dump legacy support without jeopardizing profit, but the world will keep changing and they're more likely than not to find themselves in real trouble if they don't make some clean slate decisions, IMHO.

I was born in the 70's but I don't hate MS. I think the MS ecosystem is more of a pain in the ass to use compared to Apple's but to me it now comes down to which is more important - software or hardware. Apple monetizes off hardware by commoditizing software. MS monetizes off software by commoditizing hardware. Whatever they commoditize suffers in quality. Apple had no problem letting the tablet software market devolve into cheap disposable commodities. Which is why those legacy programs are so important. I can run industry standard Win 7 programs on a Surface tablet. On an iPad all I get are budget clones of Win 7 programs or companion apps. Apple has owned the tablet market for the last 2 years. They could've easily made it viable for third party software companies to port their flagship suites to ARM by creating a sw market with viable pricepoints. Instead they decided to turn tablet software into cheap commodities so they could sell more iPads.

Far as MS being in trouble, the way they monetize off different markets, they're not going anywhere. Between their OS, peripherals, Office Suite, mobile, gaming, etc, they don't depend on any one market to the point that if they fail in it they're done. They got their foot in every door.
 

Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
14,885
8,056
I think the blame should be put on corporations who want to stick with their old software and demand legacy support because it is more cost effective. The software companies are making new software, but these companies want to stick with the old software because it just works and upgraded versions for the latest OS aren't really needed that often. If Microsoft bucked the trend then they would be financially shooting themselves in the foot and cutting off future revenue sources. Those companies would just stay on XP/7 forever.

It's not just that sticking with legacy applications are cost effective, it's that they work, and there's no reason to upgrade. I'm still using Word 2000, because it does what I need it to, and I never saw any need to upgrade. My backup program dates from around the same period, and while I've occasionally tried other programs, I've never found one that quite does the same things. Newer programs and updates just keep adding more fancy GUI, but functionally, they don't add much, and sometimes they slide back, as in losing functions or making it harder to do stuff. Win 7, I admit, is a major improvement over XP, and everytime I find myself working on an XP machine, I find myself banging my head on my desk and wishing my office would just upgrade all their computers to 7. But all the secretaries ever do is just type in ***WordPerfect*** which I believe is even older than my Word 2000, so, no, the Office Manager sees no reason to upgrade. We are going to be sticking to those 10-plus year old XP machines until they break down and no longer boot up, which looks like never.

Is this situation our fault? Microsoft? Dell? Who knows? But what is clear is that neither Microsoft nor Dell are making any money off us. Even Apple isn't making anything off our office, even though personally, many of the staff have iPhones, iPods and/or iPads. In any case, Win 8 and the hybrids are making 0 impact in our situation. Our office is satisfied with the current stage of technology we have, and there is just 0 incentive to get something new.
 

BayouTiger

macrumors 6502a
Jul 24, 2008
539
300
New Orleans
What
I think the blame should be put on corporations who want to stick with their old software and demand legacy support because it is more cost effective. The software companies are making new software, but these companies want to stick with the old software because it just works and upgraded versions for the latest OS aren't really needed that often. If Microsoft bucked the trend then they would be financially shooting themselves in the foot and cutting off future revenue sources. Those companies would just stay on XP/7 forever.

As a small business owner, I guess making choices that are "cost effective" don't make sense. I hate changing software for no reason other than the fact that it's been updated to whatever is trendy at the time. I have many people working at computers every day doing mundane things like accounting or order entry that do not want or need a new workflow. If Windows 8 is the future of the desktop, then I will make every effort to stretch my Win7 installations as far as possible. Win8 brings absolutely ZERO improvement to the average desktop worker. ZERO! Yes I have workers that have been using it and they hate it! I have others with touchscreens that tolerate it, but it adds nothing positive to their workflow.

That said, I will be adding a Surface Pro to my toolbox because it fills a need for a device that can run a full windows in a tablet environment with access to legacy programs, and USB, RS232, and hardwired connectivity through a USB port. I can do all this with my rMBP or my Air, but not my iPad. Why carry a Mac in the field that must have Fusion open 80% of the time to access custom business applications.

I always amazes me how many here decide they know what works best for another's application. These are tools, plain and simple. The one that lets me get my work done most efficiently wins. If it has a pretty interface and allows me to play when I am done with my work, then fine as long as that interface does not get in my way.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,329
7,422
For those that question why so many people hate MS - it's because MS has earned the hate. For those born in the 80's or 90's, you may not realize the horrible business practices MS used during their monopoly days. And their continued practice of releasing half baked software and hardware that seems to be developed with zero human intervention or real world use thought processes is exactly why people hate MS.

If you think different, I'd love to hear why any of you think they're great. What exactly are they doing great? Making a laplet that runs 10 year old legacy programs? That's progress? Why not push the legacy program companies to develop new software for a world that has changed? It's akin to wanting Audi to put tape decks into their cars so that you can use your collection of great 80's cassettes.

I understand MS is in an unenviable position as they can't do what Apple did and completely dump legacy support without jeopardizing profit, but the world will keep changing and they're more likely than not to find themselves in real trouble if they don't make some clean slate decisions, IMHO.

So they're supposed to be hated forever for what they did over ten years ago?

As for what they did, they gave a full OS to tablet users. Android and iOS are phones OSs. I could run LibreOffice on a Surface Pro. There are some things that need to be done with those "older applications" that... are still getting updated actually. LibreOffice just got updated recently.

Anyway, the point is that Microsoft did that while also giving us an actually changed phone OS. Android is, mostly, a wall of icons. You also get widgets maybe, but a lot of it is icons. iOS is a wall of icons.

WP8 and the modern UI are both really nice.

They're innovating, Google is copying Apple and Apple is playing it safe.
 

Liquorpuki

macrumors 68020
Jun 18, 2009
2,286
8
City of Angels
This is exactly why the Surface will never take off and its a bad deal IMO. You can get a Windows laptop with much better hardware and a way bigger screen for half the price.

The way MS monetizes they win either way

You got all these articles popping up now like Win8 alternatives to the Surface Pro. You buy one of those, they make $$$ through OEM licensing. They don't need the Surface to be a financial success. They just need it to be a successful branding tool

Same goes for all those articles knocking their shortages that don't get if they dominated the Win8 market with Surface hardware, OEMs would get pissed off and leave. Instead the shortages funnel customers toward OEM Win8 machines and help grow the ecosystem.
 

BayouTiger

macrumors 6502a
Jul 24, 2008
539
300
New Orleans
This is exactly why the Surface will never take off and its a bad deal IMO. You can get a Windows laptop with much better hardware and a way bigger screen for half the price.

If you like the feel of cheap laptops then go for it, but like it or not the Macbook Air has changed the Laptop landscape and much of the public is realizing that theres more to being a great computer than a big screen and cheap price.

As for the Surface Pro, I bought one this afternoon and it's going back tomorrow. I have been wanting a tablet that would run a full OS for field work for a long time and was really hoping this would be the ticket, but it's just not. The Metro interface is cool on the tablet, but the desktop is basically unusable without a keyboard and that defeats the purpose. You have to pop up the keyboard when needed and close it every time. little graphic elements like a slider control are nearly impossible to control accurately. and there are other little annoyances like the shape of the unit which is very uncomfortable to hold. I actually only found it better by flipping out the stand and pinching it between my fingers. Add that the USB port is right where my hand goes so it's tough to use tethered without flipping it over and them there are other issues. Add that the external storage is microSD rather than a standard SD so none of my cards work and I have to deal with an adapter to move files around.

Many of these things won't matter to many, but I wanted to like this thing a lot and it's just not working for me.
 

spinedoc77

macrumors G4
Original poster
Jun 11, 2009
11,488
5,413
This is exactly why the Surface will never take off and its a bad deal IMO. You can get a Windows laptop with much better hardware and a way bigger screen for half the price.

Nah, not because of the price, otherwise there would be no ultrabook market. I do agree that the surface won't take off in it's current iteration, but more so because of the battery life. But there is a subset of consumers who do want the power of the surface pro but need it in a tablet form factor, those consumers would consider a laptop a bad deal for that price without the option to run it as a tablet, without a digitizer, and MUCH heavier, thicker, bulkier, etc, especially when you add an ipad or other tablet on top of that to carry around.

I don't think the surface pro will bomb, but it won't sell in ipad numbers either. I've always maintained that the Pro will sell somewhere in the vicinity of what ultrabooks sell at. For the price IMO the Pro is an incredible deal, but it just doesn't fit my particular needs. For $499 I have most of what the Pro has to offer, but better battery, thinner, lighter, etc., but as I stated I'm not the power user that the surface attracts.
 

BayouTiger

macrumors 6502a
Jul 24, 2008
539
300
New Orleans
Exactly. The Ultrabook fills a niche that was long filled by much more expensive machines mostly by Sony and very few others. The Surface Pro has the power, but just lacks in ergonomics as a tablet. It will work nicely as a laptop with detachable keyboard more for desktop use and occasional tablet use. Much like the 13" Yoga, but in the much better 11" category.

I must say that I am a long time iPad user and in general dislike 16x9 screens, though I have gotten used to them on the desktop, that aspect in a tablet is just awkward as hell to hold. Sure you technically get a bigger screen and it might be good for movies (how much time do you really spend watching moving on your tablet???), but it's just a lousy unbalanced ergonomic.
 

Irishman

macrumors 68040
Nov 2, 2006
3,449
859
What

As a small business owner, I guess making choices that are "cost effective" don't make sense. I hate changing software for no reason other than the fact that it's been updated to whatever is trendy at the time. I have many people working at computers every day doing mundane things like accounting or order entry that do not want or need a new workflow. If Windows 8 is the future of the desktop, then I will make every effort to stretch my Win7 installations as far as possible. Win8 brings absolutely ZERO improvement to the average desktop worker. ZERO! Yes I have workers that have been using it and they hate it! I have others with touchscreens that tolerate it, but it adds nothing positive to their workflow.

That said, I will be adding a Surface Pro to my toolbox because it fills a need for a device that can run a full windows in a tablet environment with access to legacy programs, and USB, RS232, and hardwired connectivity through a USB port. I can do all this with my rMBP or my Air, but not my iPad. Why carry a Mac in the field that must have Fusion open 80% of the time to access custom business applications.

I always amazes me how many here decide they know what works best for another's application. These are tools, plain and simple. The one that lets me get my work done most efficiently wins. If it has a pretty interface and allows me to play when I am done with my work, then fine as long as that interface does not get in my way.

So, for you, as a small business owner, cheap, commoditized software is not a bad thing, because it lowers the cost of keeping systems and software more current.

Right?
 

VFC

macrumors 6502a
Feb 6, 2012
514
10
SE PA.
Exactly. The Ultrabook fills a niche that was long filled by much more expensive machines mostly by Sony and very few others. The Surface Pro has the power, but just lacks in ergonomics as a tablet. It will work nicely as a laptop with detachable keyboard more for desktop use and occasional tablet use. Much like the 13" Yoga, but in the much better 11" category. ......

Another plug for the Yoga. Don't underestimate the advantages of the 360 degree hinge for usability. Unlike the fixed kickstand of the Surface and the limited flexibility of the iPad cases with built in stands; the Yoga can be used in many positions.

My favorite is when the keyboard in flat on the desk (keys down) and the screen angled towards me. That moves the screen right in front of me and makes the touch interface very easy to reach and use. That also puts the USB and power connectors flat on the desk where I can keep my power and USB3-Gigabit adapter cables plugged in all the time. I can also have my coffee cup on my desk without worrying about spilling it on the keyboard (I can never comfortably drink coffee when I'm using my cMBP).

So that 360 degree hinge is the main reason my iPad 3, cMBP, and PC sit idle. It improves the ergonomics of a tablet and I find I am using tablet/touch mode far more than I expected.
 

Wiesenlooser

macrumors 6502a
Jul 9, 2010
987
1,551
I'm currently thinking about buying a surface pro. Mainly because of the Wacom digitizer. A Wacom Cintiq 12 is merely the same price, has a worse display and build quality.

So basically the Surface Pro is a Cintiq with a standalone pc built in which is kind of cool.

Here's my question though : can you use the Surface Pro as a secondary Screen? I know you can use the surface pro WITH a secondary screen. But how about hooking it up with an iMac ?
 

BayouTiger

macrumors 6502a
Jul 24, 2008
539
300
New Orleans
So, for you, as a small business owner, cheap, commoditized software is not a bad thing, because it lowers the cost of keeping systems and software more current.

Right?

I like cheap, commoditized software to a point. I don't mind paying top dollar for software that allows me to work more efficiently, but the notion of needing to buy Word and Excel for users that do nothing more that typing notes or letters and lists, or buying Acrobat Pro just to be able to print a PDF, when much simpler apps are out there is silly and I am trying hard to get out of that cycle.

AS for my earlier comment, it was in response to the notion that companies should upgrade, but don't because it's not cost effective, as if it should be done for some noble cause! Changing software in a business is in many cases extremely disruptive. Unlike many that post here. most employees are just trying to finish their work and get home. Adding a bunch of UI changes because they are the trendy thing with programmers at the time just aggravates them and slows them down. If they add significantly to their productivity then fine, but change for the sake of change in a production environment is crazy! There are just way too many folks out there (especially in the forum world) that view computers and software as though they have some religious aspect. They are tools, plain and simple and you don't mess with a workers tools capriciously!!!

Another plug for the Yoga. Don't underestimate the advantages of the 360 degree hinge for usability. Unlike the fixed kickstand of the Surface and the limited flexibility of the iPad cases with built in stands; the Yoga can be used in many positions.

My favorite is when the keyboard in flat on the desk (keys down) and the screen angled towards me. That moves the screen right in front of me and makes the touch interface very easy to reach and use. That also puts the USB and power connectors flat on the desk where I can keep my power and USB3-Gigabit adapter cables plugged in all the time. I can also have my coffee cup on my desk without worrying about spilling it on the keyboard (I can never comfortably drink coffee when I'm using my cMBP).

So that 360 degree hinge is the main reason my iPad 3, cMBP, and PC sit idle. It improves the ergonomics of a tablet and I find I am using tablet/touch mode far more than I expected.

Yes the Yoga is slick for some uses, but the user I gave it to rarely, if ever uses tablet mode, though I like that it's there if needed. It certainly doesn't hurt anything. As for the Surface, mine is packed to go back. It's just ergonomically awful. Hard to hold and using the desktop with the touchscreen and popping the keyboard up is a PITA. frankly I bought it to document things in the field, but my MBA 11 is actually easier to hold in the open position as I walk through a site. the 16x9 aspect is just not balanced and uncomfortable. IMO. and I REALLY wanted to like the Pro!!!
 
Last edited:

jmgregory1

macrumors 68040
I like cheap, commoditized software to a point. I don't mind paying top dollar for software that allows me to work more efficiently, but the notion of needing to buy Word and Excel for users that do nothing more that typing notes or letters and lists, or buying Acrobat Pro just to be able to print a PDF, when much simpler apps are out there is silly and I am trying hard to get out of that cycle.

AS for my earlier comment, it was in response to the notion that companies should upgrade, but don't because it's not cost effective, as if it should be done for some noble cause! Changing software in a business is in many cases extremely disruptive. Unlike many that post here. most employees are just trying to finish their work and get home. Adding a bunch of UI changes because they are the trendy thing with programmers at the time just aggravates them and slows them down. If they add significantly to their productivity then fine, but change for the sake of change in a production environment is crazy! There are just way too many folks out there (especially in the forum world) that view computers and software as though they have some religious aspect. They are tools, plain and simple and you don't mess with a workers tools capriciously!!!



Yes the Yoga is slick for some uses, but the user I gave it to rarely, if ever uses tablet mode, though I like that it's there if needed. It certainly doesn't hurt anything. As for the Surface, mine is packed to go back. It's just ergonomically awful. Hard to hold and using the desktop with the touchscreen and popping the keyboard up is a PITA. frankly I bought it to document things in the field, but my MBA 11 is actually easier to hold in the open position as I walk through a site. the 16x9 aspect is just not balanced and uncomfortable. IMO. and I REALLY wanted to like the Pro!!!

As a small business owner myself, I fully understand and support the idea of limiting expenses on software and hardware (and anything else). But what I was getting at as far as companies living with software (and hardware for that matter) that is years or even decades old because "it works fine" is a sign a company is complacent with where they are at. I'm not suggesting upgrades simply because you get some new GUI element, that would be wasteful. But when real improvements are made and a company chooses not to upgrade, it's not a good long-term business decision, in my opinion.

With an attitude like that, a hundred years ago, you would have been saying "who needs a gas powered truck to deliver milk, when horses work just fine. Or years later, who needs to fly when taking a boat or train works fine. Even in the recent past (and some people still live with them) you could argue that CRT monitors work just fine compared to LCD monitors - so why change? Maybe because CRT's waste more energy?

I think an issue that keeps companies from changing relates more to the fact that the model that enterprise software and hardware manufacturers have been living by revolves around complex, customized, error prone, installations done by a subset of consultants who make a living "fixing" the software and hardware that "works just fine" to the point where no one else has any idea how to make things work. That's been my experience in several mid-sized organizations.

And MS is, to a big extent, guilty of continuing this behavior, while other sectors of the market real change is happening and the models for monetizing software are changing. The Surface and W8 are perfect examples - with MS trying to take what they already have and make it work for a new era. They're simply thinking and acting like the rest of the PC market, complacent to just keep doing what they're doing. In all industries, in society, in life in general, you have those that lead and those that follow and MS is most definitely not leading.
 

sexiewasd

macrumors regular
Mar 14, 2012
211
6
Back in Your Head
I really think that maybe Microsoft, or perhaps it's the users are thinking about this tablet/laptop issue from the wrong direction.

#1. Whats wrong with tablets?
A. They aren't good for content creation, due to not having programs like Photoshop or Excel, or the processing power for programs like Maya.

#2. What is wrong with laptops?
A. They aren't nearly as easy to use on the go as tablets, and the battery life generally isn't as good as arm based tablets.

Microsoft's answer: Build both, port windows to both, see what sticks.

Apple's answer: Build a nice ARM tablet and the power users can stick to laptops with their fancy accessible file systems and such shenanigans.

How about we just start taking ARM Tablets seriously and start making some decent content creation apps. I think that at this point Adobe and Autodesk are the only companies headed in the right direction by porting some power user apps to ARM, albeit stripped down versions at the moment.

x86 tablets won't ever really take off until Intel gets x86 chips working with the same power requirements as current ARM offerings. They are working very hard to bring power requirements down, but I think that they are a ways off from ten hours of battery life.

ARM tablets won't satisfy power users until either iOS gets it's act together with an accessible file system and less strict Apps Store, or Android unifies it's distribution and becomes a profitable target for developers.
 

zhenya

macrumors 604
Jan 6, 2005
6,931
3,681
x86 tablets won't ever really take off until Intel gets x86 chips working with the same power requirements as current ARM offerings. They are working very hard to bring power requirements down, but I think that they are a ways off from ten hours of battery life.

ARM tablets won't satisfy power users until either iOS gets it's act together with an accessible file system and less strict Apps Store, or Android unifies it's distribution and becomes a profitable target for developers.

Atom processors already have all-day, 8-10 hour battery life on tablets running full Windows 8 that are thinner and lighter than the iPad. (The battery life isn't quite as good as the iPad, but it's all-day, so it's good enough).
 

soulreaver99

macrumors 68040
Aug 15, 2010
3,710
6,439
Southern California
I had the Surface Pro for a week and actually enjoyed using it. However, I needed something that was more laptop than tablet so I returned that and got the Dell XPS 12 which is freaking awesome. One of the biggest annoyances with the Surface Pro was that when it was in Desktop mode, using un-optimized apps was terrible. And also when I wanted to type, I was limited on how I could angle the tablet.
 

sexiewasd

macrumors regular
Mar 14, 2012
211
6
Back in Your Head
Atom processors already have all-day, 8-10 hour battery life on tablets running full Windows 8 that are thinner and lighter than the iPad. (The battery life isn't quite as good as the iPad, but it's all-day, so it's good enough).

And the performance is sub-par by either laptop, or tablet standards, so it's still not really a winning situation is it?
 

BayouTiger

macrumors 6502a
Jul 24, 2008
539
300
New Orleans
As a small business owner myself, I fully understand and support the idea of limiting expenses on software and hardware (and anything else). But what I was getting at as far as companies living with software (and hardware for that matter) that is years or even decades old because "it works fine" is a sign a company is complacent with where they are at. I'm not suggesting upgrades simply because you get some new GUI element, that would be wasteful. But when real improvements are made and a company chooses not to upgrade, it's not a good long-term business decision, in my opinion.

With an attitude like that, a hundred years ago, you would have been saying "who needs a gas powered truck to deliver milk, when horses work just fine. Or years later, who needs to fly when taking a boat or train works fine. Even in the recent past (and some people still live with them) you could argue that CRT monitors work just fine compared to LCD monitors - so why change? Maybe because CRT's waste more energy?

I think an issue that keeps companies from changing relates more to the fact that the model that enterprise software and hardware manufacturers have been living by revolves around complex, customized, error prone, installations done by a subset of consultants who make a living "fixing" the software and hardware that "works just fine" to the point where no one else has any idea how to make things work. That's been my experience in several mid-sized organizations.

And MS is, to a big extent, guilty of continuing this behavior, while other sectors of the market real change is happening and the models for monetizing software are changing. The Surface and W8 are perfect examples - with MS trying to take what they already have and make it work for a new era. They're simply thinking and acting like the rest of the PC market, complacent to just keep doing what they're doing. In all industries, in society, in life in general, you have those that lead and those that follow and MS is most definitely not leading.


Most of these examples are apples and oranges. There is a huge difference between upgrading because something improves your workflow and upgrading just because a developer's upgrade cycle precipitated a new UI element like the ribbon. Windows 8 is a great example. It offers absolutely nothing to my office workers that are at their desk all day and actually hinders their workflow by forcing them to switch between completely different UIs. The at that Metro works well on a tablet is completely irrelevant to a user at a desktop.

I work with Autodesk products as well and I have been forced to upgrade many times over the years, though seldom has there has been nothing added that actually improves my workflow. My clients use it so I must use it. As they change the file format every couple versions, the entire community must upgrade.

As stated above many upgrades are driven by partners that are driven by third parties and have little o do with the needs of the business.
 

spinedoc77

macrumors G4
Original poster
Jun 11, 2009
11,488
5,413
And the performance is sub-par by either laptop, or tablet standards, so it's still not really a winning situation is it?

No its not, they perform desktop functions quite well. Especially by tablet standards they completely blow away ANY other tablet except the x86 ones, and even then they blow them away in some categories (which are arguably better than performance) like battery life and form factor. As for laptop standards id say they perform as well as any 11" laptop out there for the kind of desktop use the vast majority of consumers will need.

Its really quite a shame that the atom tablets is virtually ignored by MS, yet is IMO its strongest vehicle by far to break into the consumer market.
 

sexiewasd

macrumors regular
Mar 14, 2012
211
6
Back in Your Head
No its not, they perform desktop functions quite well. Especially by tablet standards they completely blow away ANY other tablet except the x86 ones, and even then they blow them away in some categories (which are arguably better than performance) like battery life and form factor. As for laptop standards id say they perform as well as any 11" laptop out there for the kind of desktop use the vast majority of consumers will need.

Its really quite a shame that the atom tablets is virtually ignored by MS, yet is IMO its strongest vehicle by far to break into the consumer market.

Intel's latest Atom chips barely out perform the latest cortex a15 based chips, odd enough they win on power consumption, and not processing power. They are still miles behind chips like the A6 in terms of power usage though, and not very far ahead in performance. That leaves you with chips that are slightly faster than the more reasonable ARM chips, and a lot worse in power usage. Now compared to a proper x86 chip, even against a low end one like an i3 the atom is entirely spanked in computational power, and miles ahead in power usage, so it's harder to compare to other x86 chips than it is to compare the Atom to ARM.

The only big advantage that Atom has over ARM is that it can run proper x86 software an ARM cannot without it being ported to ARM (like ubuntu). That also happens to be it's biggest problem though. The popular ARM based OS's (iOS, Android, and Chrome) are written with ARM's performance in mind. Windows, Desktop Ubuntu, and OSX are NOT performance optimized for phone grade CPU's. The fastest Atom tablets are at most barely usable with windows 8, and curl up into the fetal position at the mere thought of running any software that one would actually need a desktop OS to run.

You are absolutely 100% correct that Atom is more than capable of running anything that the majority of users need, but even 4-5 year old phones can check Facebook and use google.
 
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