Well, if Microsoft makes a well-designed and silent-running AIO, that has high end-mobile GPU options, including GTX1080M - I might just make the switch. I'm tired of watching Apple resting on their laurels, and being plain lazy.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Surface Studio discussion
- Thread starter Macmamamac
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Steve Jobs had exactly 6 brilliant moves that set a trend for a period of time.
1. The Apple II
2. The 1984 Mac
3. The iMac
4. The iPod
5. The iPhone
6. The iPad
Since 2011 Apple hasn't set any new trends, but added variants on a theme and incremental improvements and don't you dare say that the Apple watch has set a trend.
As someone who's started his computing career on an Apple II in high school, I was certainly a longtime fan of Apple's achievements, but this superiority complex thinking has to stop. You have no idea how tired I am of PC vs Mac wars.
Windows is mature and as capable as Mac OS. In some industries, Apple is clearly lacking and falling behind W10.
Have a read of this: https://cdm.link/2016/09/apples-relationship-pro-music-needs-mending/
Case in point, it's more about APPS today than the underlying OS. It's like the engine in your car. I enjoy the drive and not tinkering with greasy parts.
Serious computing hardware wise, Apple is at least 2 years behind everyone else. They've developed iPhone tunnel vision and have ignored their roots.
I for one welcome Microsoft's competition. Someone's got a light a fire under Apple's ass.
Hey, you never know, maybe that new AIO box will be easy to hackintosh.
[doublepost=1475934839][/doublepost]
You've clearly shown to be a W10 novice and harping on your point about Mac OS being better is simply laughable at this stage. "The list of advantages is truly bottomless" - Are you serious ?
I'd say W10 & MacOS Sierra are 50/50 overall but depending on your personal or professional needs, one can trump the other anytime. Many of us use both for different purposes. Great if you prefer MacOS, but please stop with the generalization that Mac is better than Windows. It's not!
Huh? I have no idea what you're saying. More shortcuts and arching my hand???
Well, the MS SurfaceBooks are certainly interesting - but they're more expensive with Macs with comparable RAM and SSD sizes . (Beware misleading reviews: the entry-level Surface Book doesn't include the discrete GPU that might give it a significant performance boost over the 13" rMBP, and the high-end models with i7, dGPU and large SSDs are more expensive than 15" rMBPs with quad core i7s and discrete GPUs). Of course, the detachable tablet display & pen partly justify the extra money - especially if the alternative is buying a Mac and iPad - but, still, these are not competing with Mac on price.
The 27" 5k iMac is probably one of the best value machines Apple sells, so I doubt the MS iSurface (or whatever they call it) is going to be cheaper. There may be a niche of artistic users for whom the ability to use a 27" screen as a giant graphics tablet makes it a winner, but I'm not convinced that's more than a gimmick for most people.
We know that controlling the software and the hardware does yield an incredible advantage so one would think that Microsoft has the potential to develop an outstanding system where Windows 10 is extremely stable. Although surface is okay, it's not the best tablet out there. For Microsoft to excel in this space, they need to knock it out of the park. If they really can't deliver that against a very old iMac platform... Microsoft is out to lunch.
I have a surfacebook and love it. Its a great laptop, fast, great design, awesome keyboard (I hate the new apple butterfly keyboard), and the trackpad is surprisingly good. I don't know why most PCs cannot have a decent trackpad.
Overall, its a great machine.
Don't forget Apple's contributions to the design of laptops: even in Jobs's absence, the original PowerBook largely established the modern laptop design with the set-back keyboard, wrist-rest and central pointing device, and Apple continued making nice laptops through the 90s even when their desktop line went off the rails. The PowerBook "Titanium" was also a bit of a design innovation (if the extent to which it was copied by the rest of the industry is anything to go by). More recently, Apple has driven improvements in trackpad design, pushed "retina" displays when the rest of the industry had stuck at 1080p and pushed the uptake of SSDs (and then PCIe SSDs). The MacBook Air essentially invented the "ultrabook" form-factor. Even the "scrabble key/chiclet" keyboard introduced with the Unibody MBP has been copied by most of this industry. None of these were "iPhone" moments, but until a couple of years ago, Apple really were the trend-setters in the laptop market.
It is especially good at spying on you, sending all your data, info and individual key presses and mouse clicks back to MS servers, and most likely on to NSA and GCHQ and other places they won't even bother to inform us about the existence of.
[doublepost=1475940243][/doublepost]
Yes, it is particularly good at spying. Apple have yet to catch up on that aspect.
[doublepost=1475942958][/doublepost]
I am an experienced Windows user for many years, just to clarify. Using Win3.1 was terrible, everybody knows. Win95 improved but was still bad. WinXP not much different. Vista everybody knows was an abortion. Win7 improved but still underlying Windows nastiness and again Win8 was an abortion too. Everybody knows these things and nobody can deny it. Win10 is magnificent at spying on you, collecting your personal data and sending it all back to MS servers over 1500 times each day, and from there most likely on to NSA, GCHQ, etc., and again, it is the same basic MS Windows code from the beginning, ok the coding is improved, it is much more extensive than Win3.1 that came on five 1.44Mb Floppy disks. Now it is measured in many gigabytes of code but still the dislikable configuration, the same Registry database since 1995, the same need to tweak and configure and download some additional software item to do what you wanna do, the same dislikable lack of fundamental usability out of the box, like it was intentionally crippled, not to mention that even the basic card game now comes with spam-ware built in, is limited and you have to pay extra for full functionality. What the hell is that? How can anyone defend this type of thing is beyond me, especially on a site dedicated to another brand.
On the other hand, even a fool like me can pick up an out-of-the-box iMac and just use it, just get on with doing what they wanna do. No need to configure or download, it will play your media files, it will give you a quick look at your photos, as the tired old catchphrase goes, it just works.
Yes, the Fisher-Price theme that has been current since 10.10 is crap and Apple have yet to catch up with MS on the spying but, I am willing to vote for macOS for the next five years at least.
I think a quality all-in-one Windows computer with high end hardware will make a lot of people question their iMac buying decision.
Windows has the Alt key. Through the Alt shortcuts, a user can almost completely control the entire machine without the use of a mouse. I am not sure if this is still the case in 10, but in all previous iterations, a Windows user just needed to hit say, Alt + F for the File menu (Alt + E for Edit, Alt + V for view, etc), then follow the underlined letters to execute a command. It is a very intuitive system and requires little memorization. OS X has always been inferior where keyboard shortcuts are concerned.
Last edited:
It's going to be interesting to see what they do. I use my iMac for work, if they somehow intergrate stylus/touch and allow the user to draw directly into an app like photoshop, I might consider switching. They are calling it the 'Surface Cardinal', which hints that the machine will have similar functionality of the current portable surface.
Apple, I absolutely hate you for making me even think of switching Windows. Up your game now!!
Apple, I absolutely hate you for making me even think of switching Windows. Up your game now!!
Last edited:
well said and agree completely! win 10 is a fine OS and as for spying, like all you can turn off. OSX V WIN 10 is always about the fan boys, what i want is stability and like the OP said there is nothing wrong with Win 10 its a very strong OS and being a mac user for many years i am not afraid to put my hand up and say it. I hope they do put out a true contender to the iMac, as the mac pro is old hat now.
That may have been true lankyman if your view was important to me in any real way. It isn't
It is what it is and your interest or otherwise doesn't alter that fact.
The article is interesting. Particularly on the VR integration.
As for Windows 10. I'd say from my experience, it's the most comprehensive, solid, and powerful OS on the retail shelf right now.
I haven't had any trouble with it. And I've been fully immersed in its dissection for the past 2 years.
While I like OS X, I find that Windows 10 does provide more capabilities.
One thing that is most impressive is the way Windows handles large scale networks. Active Directory, server, file manager, permissions, etc.
I couldn't dream of using OS X to provide for the expansive networking requirements of the corporate world.
In the corporate world, Windows has OS X beat when it comes to network management and network security / permissions, etc.
As for Windows 10. I'd say from my experience, it's the most comprehensive, solid, and powerful OS on the retail shelf right now.
I haven't had any trouble with it. And I've been fully immersed in its dissection for the past 2 years.
While I like OS X, I find that Windows 10 does provide more capabilities.
One thing that is most impressive is the way Windows handles large scale networks. Active Directory, server, file manager, permissions, etc.
I couldn't dream of using OS X to provide for the expansive networking requirements of the corporate world.
In the corporate world, Windows has OS X beat when it comes to network management and network security / permissions, etc.
Both OS's are great in my opinion, W10 and OSX Sierra. And one that find one OS superior to the other clearly is just speaking from familiarity and ignorance. So, if you dont need up to date hardware and prefer a good looking machine, then stick with whatever OS you like. If you on the other hand have hardware demands and the internals are more important than the exterior, I must say Apple is quickly loosing its mojo these days. All of Apples machines are overpriced and outdated and you still have to pay top dollar for it...(not so sexy with a aluminum machine you know that have extreme limitations) So, in my opinion, do you need a proper machine, get used to Win 10. All the talks of Control panel, viruses, Mac vs. Win key etc are completely trivial and stuff you quickly learn to get used to no matter which side you are on. CPU and GPU on the other hand is not something you can learn to work around if you need it.
I like both platforms, and arguments like these can definitely start sounding like the prior Mac vs. PC wars. Both windows and OS X has advantages and disadvantages, though to blindly say that windows is inferior in almost every way is rather myopic and lacks credibility
You really need only make that comment once
As for "spying" Its quite easy to adjust what if any information is sent back to mother ship
Just call me paranoid
I think Microsoft are a little too late to the all-in-one game. The real questions are who are these machines for, and who will actually take them seriously. Because if MS are investing so much effort into marketing the Surface as "the only PC you'll ever need" (paraphrase), then that contradicts the idea of mounting a larger Surface onto a stand.
The way I see it, the overwhelming majority of consumers just want a device to get things done, and to that end the current Surface fulfils its promise (to an extent). But the market is unrecognisable from what it was even 10 years ago; now, to spend all that extra money on a Windows PC that isn't mobile, you're actually entering a very niche market.
The way I see it, the overwhelming majority of consumers just want a device to get things done, and to that end the current Surface fulfils its promise (to an extent). But the market is unrecognisable from what it was even 10 years ago; now, to spend all that extra money on a Windows PC that isn't mobile, you're actually entering a very niche market.
Personally, I would really like to see Apple fall far behind and have to play some serious catch-up...which we're actually seeing the first half of lately... At that point, I think we may finally see some good products available from Apple again. Until then, I'll keep my current macs, and keep upgrading my PC's.
As for the current OS status, I would say it's silly to argue either 10 or Sierra is superior to the other. Sierra has far more limitations, and 10 has far more annoying bugs. I still go back to Mavericks and 7 as frequently as possible, and I honestly have no problems with either. Also, who on earth is still getting "tons of viruses" on windows? You'd have to be a pretty ignorant computer user to get a virus anymore. I haven't had a virus on Windows since windows XP, and I don't even use active antivirus programs.
As for the current OS status, I would say it's silly to argue either 10 or Sierra is superior to the other. Sierra has far more limitations, and 10 has far more annoying bugs. I still go back to Mavericks and 7 as frequently as possible, and I honestly have no problems with either. Also, who on earth is still getting "tons of viruses" on windows? You'd have to be a pretty ignorant computer user to get a virus anymore. I haven't had a virus on Windows since windows XP, and I don't even use active antivirus programs.
Market competition is good for the consumer and lost sales ( if this new AIO is successful ) will more effectively grab Apple's attention than MR's posts.
As a macOS developer, moving completely to Windows 10, no matter how good it is ( and it is purported to be good ), isn't really practical. MacOS for all non-development tasks is fine for my needs but Apple's lagging hardware upgrades are concerning not because my needs require the fastest machines ( they don't ), but because Apple is emphasizing commodity hardware lines ( phones, watches, pads, everything non-Mac and services ) whose sales are decreasing lately. IMO most of them are not innovative and similar items are offered by other manufacturers.
I'm reasonably sure Apple has noticed their sales issues but it's not clear to me if they've thoroughly reviewed their executive leadership's ( and not just their products ) contributions and their overall company direction. Apple's forays into political correctness seem more likely to alienate at least part of their clientele and do nothing to solve sales and innovation issues.
Microsoft has tried and failed before to compete with Apple products ( e.g. Zune, MS Phone aka: Nokia ), so there is little historical basis for pronouncing the AIO a success. We'll see.
Last edited:
I'm curious about this as well, I'm very happy with my iMac and I have no intentions of buying one, but I'm curious to see what MS rolls out.
With the iMac, I can boot into Windows or OS X, so I get the best of both worlds, while it may be possible to turn the Surface into a hackintosh, that may be something not worth the effort. I debated between getting this iMac and a Dell, and the two factors in the iMacs favor was the iMac screen and it could easily run both operating systems.