MP 1,1-5,1 testing TB3 AIC with MP 5,1

[Woof Woof]

Every Thunderbolt peripheral has a bridge (PCIe switch). It's part of the Thunderbolt controller. The Thunderbolt controller has 4 downstream PCIe lanes and a downstream Thunderbolt port. Some Thunderbolt devices don't expose the downstream Thunderbolt port. Maybe that's what you mean?

I guess I am not sure what the deal is. Peripherals behind the dumbest of TB1 controllers work, such as those behind a DSL2210. I had made the assumption that if there were multiple devices behind a TB1 controller, it would fail without help from BIOS to both enable Legacy mode, and to help with the enumeration.

I don't have problems detecting devices behind an alpine-ridge based dock.

 

[joevt]

I don't have problems detecting devices behind an alpine-ridge based dock.

My example has one Thunderbolt 1 device (Apple Thunderbolt to Gigabit Ethernet Adapter) after a Thunderbolt 3 Alpine Ridge device (AKiTiO) and another Thunderbolt 1 device (Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter) after a Thunderbolt 2 device (OWC Thunderbolt 2 Dock). I could try placing the Thunderbolt 1 devices directly from the GC-TITAN RIDGE or a Thunderbolt 3 Titan Ridge device (HP Thunderbolt Dock G2). I think I've tried that before with no problem. I'll do it again to be sure.

KevinClark said he didn't have any other Thunderbolt devices to use. If it works, adding an Alpine Ridge device would be half the price of a new Apollo Thunderbolt 2 or 3 Option Card.

 

[joevt]

I could try placing the Thunderbolt 1 devices directly from the GC-TITAN RIDGE or a Thunderbolt 3 Titan Ridge device (HP Thunderbolt Dock G2). I think I've tried that before with no problem. I'll do it again to be sure.

Yeah, I rebooted and switched around the Thunderbolt devices. The Thunderbolt 1 devices work when connected directly to a Titan Ridge Thunderbolt controller or device.

 

[AppleDrank]

142.0.0.0.0 "bricks" (don't work until you change the Xeon to one that works) with all single CPU Mac Pros that still have the original W3xxx Xeons. Read the first post of MP5,1: BootROM thread | beta 142.0.0.0.0 "bricks" with W3xxx Xeons thread.

Windows EFI really bricked a lot of Macs with MP51.0087.B00 and could brick more in the future. Mac Pro 5,1 is not Windows EFI compatible and you should not install it even that some people got it working. Apple never certified it and Microsoft is doing nasty things with the NVRAM, so you should not use Windows installed via EFI.

Would it avoid this problem to use Windows 8? I understand it doesn't put certificates in EFI.
[doublepost=1566195997][/doublepost]

Thunderbolt works now, my Thunderbolt 3 audio interface runs.
The only thing missing would be two scripts, one in Windows, which at startup, changes the boot volume to Mac and a automator script which sets the boot volume back to Windows.
Then it would be perfect (as long as there is no hack for the titan ridge)
I don't know Windows at all so I have no clue how to make such a script.
I probably can make one for OSX.

The boot disk panel in windows is also working with High Sierra on a NVME.
we have to trick out the installer. My Thunderbolt 3 audio interface runs.

Re scripts, a guy on here wrote a free app called "Boot Manager" it works really well.

 

[tsialex]

Would it avoid this problem to use Windows 8? I understand it doesn't put certificates in EFI.

Windows 7, Windows 8, CSM Windows 8.1 and CSM Windows 10 don't have SecureBoot. If you don't have a VEGA GPU or don't want to install Windows with a NVMe drive, the best bet is CSM Windows 10. You can go to and from Windows 10 and have APFS support using iMac Pro BootCamp drivers, see this post:

-- How to install Windows and switch between different OS without boot screen --
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ut-a-boot-screen.2114788/page-9#post-26689280

 

[cdf]

If you don't have a VEGA GPU or want to install Windows with a NVMe drive, the best bet is CSM Windows 10.

Just in case there may be ambiguity here: you mean "or don't want to install Windows with an NVMe drive," correct?

 

[tsialex]

Just in case there may be ambiguity here: you mean "or don't want to install Windows with an NVMe drive," correct?

Yes, sorry for not being clearer, Windows installed with CSM mode don't support booting from NVMe and VEGA GPUs don't have CSM mode.

 

[AppleDrank]

Software installed but nothing connected as yet. Waiting to get the bits I need to plug in!

I've read all your posts in this thread. Don't ask me how I know, but this can happen if you have the Titan Ridge card plugged into PCI slot 1 or 2. These cannot support Thunderbolt because they only provide PCIe 2.0 x 4. If you do this, the Titan Ridge will not be recognized by Windows 10's Device Manager, and you won't have the opportunity to install the driver.

The Titan Ridge card must be plugged into the Bottom PCIe slot, or the 2nd lowest (both 16x speed). With a double-width video card, this means the Titan Ridge must go in the bottom slot, and the video card goes in the slot above.

 

[aclarubicin]

I've read all your posts in this thread. Don't ask me how I know, but this can happen if you have the Titan Ridge card plugged into PCI slot 1 or 2. These cannot support Thunderbolt because they only provide PCIe 2.0 x 4. If you do this, the Titan Ridge will not be recognized by Windows 10's Device Manager, and you won't have the opportunity to install the driver.

The Titan Ridge card must be plugged into the Bottom PCIe slot, or the 2nd lowest (both 16x speed). With a double-width video card, this means the Titan Ridge must go in the bottom slot, and the video card goes in the slot above.

This is not true, my Titan Ridge is in the uppermost slot and works in both OS...

 

[AppleDrank]

This is not true, my Titan Ridge is in the uppermost slot and works in both OS...

Really? I couldn't get Windows 10 to recognize it in my 5.1 until I moved it into the lower 16x slot. Maybe it was the act of moving it...? I'm not sure how that makes sense. I was in Device Manager poking around for an hour telling it to "scan for hardware changes."

Have you tried running a speed test on an external NVME over a Thunderbolt 3 cable? What kind of speed do you get?

 

[joevt]

Really? I couldn't get Windows 10 to recognize it in my 5.1 until I moved it into the lower 16x slot. Maybe it was the act of moving it...? I'm not sure how that makes sense. I was in Device Manager poking around for an hour telling it to "scan for hardware changes."

Have you tried running a speed test on an external NVME over a Thunderbolt 3 cable? What kind of speed do you get?

I don't think it matters which slot the card is in. In a MacPro5,1, the card will run at PCIe 2.0 x4 in all slots. There are ways to add PCIe 3.0 slots to get a PCIe 3.0 x4 link.

A PCIe 2.0 x4 link should allow 1500 MB/s from a single NVMe.
A PCI3 3.0 x4 link should allow 2500 MB/s from a single NVMe.

In Windows, the Intel Thunderbolt software should be installed. When you connect a Thunderbolt 3 device to the GC-TITAN RIDGE, it should be detected by the Thunderbolt software. You might have to disconnect and reconnect it once. You might have to approve the connection. Then, you can use the Thunderbolt device in Windows or macOS after a warm boot.

 

[g2only]

WOW! Just found this thread...one thing leads to another thing syndrome, ha! Really, REALLY interested in this becoming a cold boot viable solution...would be nice to be able to purchase the plethora of USB-C/TB3 devices out there!

 

[safari70]

Thanks to everyone on this thread (especially joevt) I got a Titan Ridge installed and working in Mojave 10.14.6 on a MP 5.1 (bootroom: 144.0.0.0.0).

The only thing I couldn't figure out is how to change it from 2.5GT/s to 5GT/s... I downloaded pciutils and used setpci to force the speed to "2" on the main bridge (assuming it is 09:00) - tried all the other with "Titan Ridge" as well - but it didn't make a difference (see attached) - the speed in System Info still shows 2.5GT/s.

Is this a known limitation or should I be doing something different?

Thanks.

 

[joevt]

The only thing I couldn't figure out is how to change it from 2.5GT/s to 5GT/s... I downloaded pciutils and used setpci to force the speed to "2" on the main bridge (assuming it is 09:00) - tried all the other with "Titan Ridge" as well - but it didn't make a difference (see attached) - the speed in System Info still shows 2.5GT/s.

Is this a known limitation or should I be doing something different?

The upstream of the Titan Ridge at 09:00.0 is the only one that needs to say g2 (5GT/s) - it matches the max of your PCIe slot at 02:04.0. On the MacPro5,1 with the latest firmware that you have, it should boot that way - as reported in the pcitree.txt output.

The setpci commands shown in the pcitree.txt output only show the current value of CAP_EXP+30.w. You need to add "=newvalue:mask" to change the value of the register. Paste the following into a file called "fast.sh", add the execute permission to the file, and use the script to change the link speed of a root port.

speed=$1
rootport=$2
linkstatus=$(sudo setpci -s $rootport CAP_EXP+12.w); echo '# Before: PCIe' $(( 0x$linkstatus & 15)).0 x$(( 0x$linkstatus >> 4 & 31))
sudo setpci -s $rootport CAP_EXP+30.w=$speed:F # Set Link Speed
sudo setpci -s $rootport CAP_EXP+10.w=20:20 # Start Retrain
linkstatus=$(sudo setpci -s $rootport CAP_EXP+12.w); echo '#  After: PCIe' $(( 0x$linkstatus & 15)).0 x$(( 0x$linkstatus >> 4 & 31))

Execute it like this ("2" is for 5 GT/s, change it to "1" to try 2.5 GT/s, run pcitree.sh to see the change which should affect the slot at 02:04.0 and the Titan Ridge upstream at 09:00.0):

./fast.sh 2 02:04.0

The Titan Ridge downstream bridges/devices (NHI, USB, and their bridges) are reported as g1 (2.5GT/s) but that doesn't mean anything since they are internal to the Titan Ridge chip. g1 is the expected value and doesn't change.

Did you run update-pciids after installing pciutils? Some of the device names seem strange or missing.

The Thunderbolt 1 device having upstream at 0c:00.0 seems strange. The downstream at 0d:00.0 is the PCIe link to the PCIe endpoint device at 0e:00.0 (RME Fireface UFX+). The device is g1x2 but appears to only negotiate a link width of x1. Did RME only wire one of the two PCIe lanes or does Thunderbolt 1 not support x2 devices? g1x1 is limited to 250 MB/s. I think that's sufficient for audio? USB 3.0 is 500 MB/s.

Ignore PCIe speed reported by System Info. That info is not current. The output from pciutils as reported by lspci, setpci, or pcitree.sh are current values. System Info is correct if it's reporting the speed of the RME Fireface UFX+ (pcie1d18,1).

 

[safari70]

Thanks for the clarification! (yes I did run setpci with "=2:F" earlier, but at 09:00).

So as you suggested, I executed update-pciids, then pasted the code below in fast.sh and ran it, here's the output (with pcitree) attached. I'm not sure it changed anything...

The RME UFX+ is a Thunderbolt (1) device, so I guess it's ok (more than enough for the supported audio channels).


Any more help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

The upstream of the Titan Ridge at 09:00.0 is the only one that needs to say g2 (5GT/s) - it matches the max of your PCIe slot at 02:04.0. On the MacPro5,1 with the latest firmware that you have, it should boot that way - as reported in the pcitree.txt output.

The setpci commands shown in the pcitree.txt output only show the current value of CAP_EXP+30.w. You need to add "=newvalue:mask" to change the value of the register. Paste the following into a file called "fast.sh", add the execute permission to the file, and use the script to change the link speed of a root port.

speed=$1
rootport=$2
linkstatus=$(sudo setpci -s $rootport CAP_EXP+12.w); echo '# Before: PCIe' $(( 0x$linkstatus & 15)).0 x$(( 0x$linkstatus >> 4 & 31))
sudo setpci -s $rootport CAP_EXP+30.w=$speed:F # Set Link Speed
sudo setpci -s $rootport CAP_EXP+10.w=20:20 # Start Retrain
linkstatus=$(sudo setpci -s $rootport CAP_EXP+12.w); echo '#  After: PCIe' $(( 0x$linkstatus & 15)).0 x$(( 0x$linkstatus >> 4 & 31))

Execute it like this ("2" is for 5 GT/s, change it to "1" to try 2.5 GT/s, run pcitree.sh to see the change which should affect the slot at 02:04.0 and the Titan Ridge upstream at 09:00.0):

./fast.sh 2 02:04.0

The Titan Ridge downstream bridges/devices (NHI, USB, and their bridges) are reported as g1 (2.5GT/s) but that doesn't mean anything since they are internal to the Titan Ridge chip. g1 is the expected value and doesn't change.

Did you run update-pciids after installing pciutils? Some of the device names seem strange or missing.

The Thunderbolt 1 device having upstream at 0c:00.0 seems strange. The downstream at 0d:00.0 is the PCIe link to the PCIe endpoint device at 0e:00.0 (RME Fireface UFX+). The device is g1x2 but appears to only negotiate a link width of x1. Did RME only wire one of the two PCIe lanes or does Thunderbolt 1 not support x2 devices? g1x1 is limited to 250 MB/s. I think that's sufficient for audio? USB 3.0 is 500 MB/s.

Ignore PCIe speed reported by System Info. That info is not current. The output from pciutils as reported by lspci, setpci, or pcitree.sh are current values. System Info is correct if it's reporting the speed of the RME Fireface UFX+ (pcie1d18,1).

 

[joevt]

So as you suggested, I executed update-pciids, then pasted the code below in fast.sh and ran it, here's the output (with pcitree) attached. I'm not sure it changed anything...

Everything looks fine. You don't need the fast.sh script because your MacPro5,1 boots with the correct speed.
The update-pciids updated the names of the AMD devices (the same vendor/product ID is also used by the newer RX 590).

My suggestion was for you to use fast.sh to lower the speed from PCie 2.0 to PCIe 1.0 so you can see that changing the speed works.

./fast.sh 1 02:04.0
./pcitree.sh > slow.txt
./fast.sh 2 02:04.0
./pcitree.sh > fast.txt
diff slow.txt fast.txt

 

[aniber22]

Hello guys , thanks for this forum,

I want to buy a GC TitanRidge for my MacPro 3.1, to plug audio interface (Avid Hd Native thunderbolt), so I wanna ask you experts if :

- Titan ridge works fine with 3.1 (with audio interface) ?

Thank you very much .

 

[aniber22]

Any update with 3.1 wtith this card ?

stable enough for using thunderbolt 2 audio interface (hd native) ?

Thank u so much

 

[NoLemon]

Re scripts, a guy on here wrote a free app called "Boot Manager" it works really well.

Where ?
Link ???
Thanks !!!

 

[joevt]

Where ?
Link ???

Boot Manager: A Boot Screen Alternative in the status bar of your Mac.

Due to the requirement to have a Metal compatible graphics card to install Mojave, many users upgraded their graphics cards to PC cards that do not have EFI firmware and therefore cannot display the Startup Manager (also known as Boot Screen). Many Mac Pro users usually install Windows in dual...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[NoLemon]

Boot Manager: A Boot Screen Alternative in the status bar of your Mac.

Due to the requirement to have a Metal compatible graphics card to install Mojave, many users upgraded their graphics cards to PC cards that do not have EFI firmware and therefore cannot display the Startup Manager (also known as Boot Screen). Many Mac Pro users usually install Windows in dual...

forums.macrumors.com

I see, that one. Well thats not the problem, I can select the boot drive in osx/systempreferences/ start up disk. I have a script which does that automatically. If I dig more I probably can find a way how to run the script at start up, so next boot it will automatically start in Windows.

The problem is in Windows.
There i also found a way to automate it but...
its pretty much the same as in osx, except that it is a task recording and I dont know how to run that task at start up, after the bootcamp panel has loaded.
I also I dont know how to create a key combination to circumvent the task if i want to boot in to Windows. Since I have no clue about Windows, its is not really possible for me to find out, unless I learn some Windows, i don't know what its called Program which can do that.
=)

 

[IOMstudio]

Hi guys!, I'm in really serious need of help, I have a 2010 Mac Pro 5,1 2.66 Ghz 12 Cores, running Mojave on an NVMe via PCIe everything running pretty good so far, Windows 10 Pro on a second Hard Drive an Internal Hard drive with TIME Machine, I bought the Gigabyte GC TITAN RIDGE and I'm trying to connect the VRS8 (Slate Digital) interface thunderbolt 2, but the big problem here is that this interface has two type of connections Thunderbolt 2 for MAC, and HDMI audio (with a PCIe Included) for Windows, they dropped the Mac OS legacy driver development (for old MACs) via HDMI, would it be possible and sorry for my ignorance to modify the Windows Driver to work in Mac???? since there is no Windows thunderbolt 2 driver for this interface, I hope I'm being clear if not let me know, thanks!!! I must say that I have read this thread from the first page I think I didn't get the cabling part ( English is not my first language) besides some of the technicality that I don't fully understand since I'm only an audio engineer, thank you so much for any light you can throw at me

 

[joevt]

Do you have a special card that connects to the VRS8 via HDMI cable? If the PCIe device that is connected with the HDMI cable is the same PCIe device that is connected with the Thunderbolt cable, then the same macOS driver should work with both connections. Check the list of PCIe devices with lspci -nnvt or pcitree.sh
The HDMI cable connection is probably better than Thunderbolt (less latency).

Did you try installing the macOS driver?
Post a link to the macOS VRS8 drivers.

We can't do anything with the Windows driver in macOS.

 

[IOMstudio]

Do you have a special card that connects to the VRS8 via HDMI cable? If the PCIe device that is connected with the HDMI cable is the same PCIe device that is connected with the Thunderbolt cable, then the same macOS driver should work with both connections. Check the list of PCIe devices with lspci -nnvt or pcitree.sh
The HDMI cable connection is probably better than Thunderbolt (less latency).

Did you try installing the macOS driver?
Post a link to the macOS VRS8 drivers.

We can't do anything with the Windows driver in macOS.

Both Drivers are here in this page Slate Digital at the bottom of the page

The PCIe card that came with the Audio interface is HDMI only and exclusively for the interface, and has only one HDMI connection
tsialex told me that HDMI has less latency than Thunderbolt

So the computer somehow recognizes the PCIe card

 

[tsialex]

Both Drivers are here in this page Slate Digital at the bottom of the page
View attachment 871144
The PCIe card that came with the Audio interface is HDMI only and exclusively for the interface, and has only one HDMI connection
tsialex told me that HDMI has less latency than Thunderbolt
View attachment 871147
View attachment 871148 View attachment 871149

So the computer somehow recognizes the PCIe card

I never told you anything about latency, I don't know anything about your card. I just wrote that with Mojave, HDMI audio works natively with Polaris and VEGA GPUs.