The 2016-2017 Football Thread

[Scepticalscribe]

definitely made for younger football fans with all the eye popping graphics and what not. but i still found the articles entertaining and informative.
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Personally, I tend to like longer, more meditative articles - or books, other than snappy stuff aimed at youngsters: I like to be surprised, or made to think, or made aware of something I hadn't known or wouldn't have considered otherwise, when reading such books.

I assume, for example, that you have come across Simon Kuper's excellent "Football Against The Enemy" - which is a wonderful read, interesting, insightful, and full of unusual and unexpected vignettes using the prism of football to explore culture and politics (or, put another way, perhaps using the lens of politics and culture to explore football).

 

[pachyderm]

Personally, I tend to like longer, more meditative articles - or books, other than snappy stuff aimed at youngsters: I like to be surprised, or amide to think, or made aware of something I hadn't known or wouldn't have considered otherwise, when reading such books.

I assume, for example, that you have come across Simon Kuper's excellent "Football Against The Enemy" - which is a wonderful read, interesting, insightful, and full of unusual and unexpected vignettes using the prism of football to explore culture and politics (or, put another way, perhaps using the lens of politics and culture to explore football).

I have not. I will check it out.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I have not. I will check it out.

The book is over 20 years old - it won the William Hill sports book of the year award the year after Nick Hornby had won it for "Fever Pitch" - but it is excellent, and full of sharp and intelligent insights. And, it is very well written, too.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

An idiotic penalty miss by Harry Kane in the Spurs v Southampton game.

I have to say that I find the spectacle of exceptionally well paid individuals (who are exceptionally well paid, for, among many other things, their ability to place a ball, kick a ball, and accurately aim where they want to kick that ball) missing a penalty by blazing a ball miles over the bar, an inexplicably ludicrous sight, one that evokes little sympathy in me, but does give rise to an insane urge to kick that numbskull myself.

Or fine him a half a week's wages per missed penalty (a suggestion my brother adjudged "too harsh").

 

[JamesMike]

I hope Man U finishes 2016 well tomorrow.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I hope Man U finishes 2016 well tomorrow.

I hope they over exert themselves as we are playing you Monday!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I hope Man U finishes 2016 well tomorrow.

Sorry, @JamesMike, but as long as that utterly toxic and downright nasty piece of work, Mr Mourinho, is in charge at Old Trafford, I hope they get stuffed; I like to see them suffer, as their entitled attitude and the arrogance it engendered, grated on me.

I hope they over exert themselves as we are playing you Monday!

I will admit that Zlatan Ibrahimovic has been an absolute revelation, - most impressive at every level - but will he be able to sustain that level of passionate commitment, fitness, zest, and artistry over an entire season?

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Whew, the Klopp-Pep derby ended up being very scrappy...not a huge amount of free-flowing play.

Still, a win over city AND a clean sheet against a top side is a big deal for Liverpool. The title challenge is still very much on, though it's still Chelsea's league to lose.

 

[JamesMike]

A good come from behind by Man U.

@Scepticalscribe I agree about the manager, but I have to put up with it for now been a fan of Man U since 1977.
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I hope they over exert themselves as we are playing you Monday!

I saw that.

 

[Apple fanboy]

A good come from behind by Man U.

@Scepticalscribe I agree about the manager, but I have to put up with it for now been a fan of Man U since 1977.
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I saw that.

Well you certainly left it late! If Noble isn't back for us I fear the worst. One of our underrated players, but he's an integral part of the team.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

A good come from behind by Man U.

@Scepticalscribe I agree about the manager, but I have to put up with it for now been a fan of Man U since 1977.
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I saw that.

My late father supported Manchester United, in his case, a support that went back to the 30s, when he was a boy, and a support - I suspect - that was further copper-fastened by the tragic events of the Munich air disaster of 1958.

Now, I used to tease him about them - especially if they lost.

But, I have never detested them - until now - and the reason for that is twofold: One is the character of the manager, Mr Mourinho.

Talented though he may have been, I think him toxic, narcissistic, nasty, ungenerous, a whinging bully, and a profoundly unpleasant piece of work. The values he espouses and the lack of an ethical core - or a trace of human decency - render him repellant in my mind.

The second is the set of attitudes and the footballing environment that Manchester United have cultivated, and encouraged the growth of: Essentially, - the club has become an expression of pure corporate greed at the expense of the sort of values cultivated by a club that was once solidly rooted in (and revered by) the wider community, a transition best expressed by the consequences of the takeover of the club by the Glazer family. (Yes, others are culpable, too - I don't dispute that.)

 

[JamesMike]

My late father supported Manchester United, in his case, a support that went back to the 30s, when he was a boy, and a support - I suspect - that was further copper-fastened by the tragic events of the Munich air disaster of 1958.

Now, I used to tease him about them - especially if they lost.

But, I have never detested them - until now - and the reason for that is twofold: One is the character of the manager, Mr Mourinho.

Talented though he may have been, I think him toxic, narcissistic, nasty, ungenerous, a whinging bully, and a profoundly unpleasant piece of work. The values he espouses and the lack of an ethical core - or a trace of human decency - render him repellant in my mind.

The second is the set of attitudes and the footballing environment that Manchester United have cultivated, and encouraged the growth of - essentially, - the club has become an expression of pure corporate greed at the expense of the sort of values cultivated by a club that was once solidly rooted in (and revered by) the wider community, a transition best expressed by the consequences of the takeover of the club by the Glazer family. (Yes, others are culpable, too - I don't dispute that.)

It goes without say, my favorite manager is Sir Alex, I had the plesure of meeting him at Old Trafford, a real gentleman.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

It goes without say, my favorite manager is Sir Alex, I had the plesure of meeting him at Old Trafford, a real gentleman.

Sir Alex Ferguson was an outstanding manager and a pretty impressive human being. My father also admired Sir Matt Busby.

It must have been a privilege and a pleasure to have been able to meet Sir Alex; lucky you. I'm envious.

From what I have read, he is a serious wine connoisseur, too. And was a Labour supporter.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

And a welcome victory (described by The Guardian as "routine") for Arsenal - who won 2-0 - over Crystal Palace.

 

[Apple fanboy]

And a welcome victory (described by The Guardian as "routine") for Arsenal - who won 2-0 - over Crystal Palace.

Few would have expected a CP win today, but big Sam hasn't had a great start.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Few would have expected a CP win today, but big Sam hasn't had a great start.

Well, the Guardian had a piece about how he had stymied Arsenal in the past, implying that there might be a little something by way of nerves from Mr Wenger's side.

Nevertheless, had Arsenal not taken three points - had the match resulted in a draw (I don't think a defeat was ever on the cards), the usual stuff about how 'brittle' Arsenal are occasionally might have resurfaced.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Well, the Guardian had a piece about how he had stymied Arsenal in the past, implying that there might be a little something by way of nerves from Mr Wenger's side.

Nevertheless, had Arsenal not taken three points - had the match resulted in a draw (I don't think a defeat was ever on the cards), the usual stuff about how 'brittle' Arsenal are occasionally might have resurfaced.

Still plenty of time for Arsenal to fall apart yet.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Still plenty of time for Arsenal to fall apart yet.

Oh, I daresay they will find a way.

But what one considers to be "falling apart" is relative: Under Mr Wenger they have made the top four for the past twenty years by season's end - a position that is adjudged a success by most yardsticks - and I would expect them to achieve that again this year.

 

[circatee]

Good game for Arsenal today and brilliant goal by Giroud.

I will say, Alexis was frustrated by not getting the ball more in the final third. He clearly wanted to press more. Something tells me he forgot we're playing again on Tuesday.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Oh, I daresay they will find a way.

But what one considers to be "falling apart" is relative: Under Mr Wenger they have made the top four for the past twenty years by season's end - a position that is adjudged a success by most yardsticks - and I would expect them to achieve that again this year.

Agree. Top four he has achieved consistently. Trophies not so much.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Agree. Top four he has achieved consistently. Trophies not so much.

Trophies, no, not in the past ten years. His first decade was different - then, he did win trophies.

One profile I read (in the Guardian, some time ago) argued that Mr Wenger had loved Highbury, and never felt that the Emirates offered quite the same atmosphere or ambience.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Trophies, no, not in the past ten years. His first decade was different - then, he did win trophies.

One profile I read (in the Guardian, some time ago) argued that Mr Wenger had loved Highbury, and never felt that the Emirates offered quite the same atmosphere or ambience.

A similar issue we are now facing. I've been to Highbury a few times to watch Arsenal and like Upton Park it was a pretty tight ground.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

A similar issue we are now facing. I've been to Highbury a few times to watch Arsenal and like Upton Park it was a pretty tight ground.

But very atmospheric; Nick Hornby used to drool and rave about the Art Deco stands of Highbury.

In the case of the Emirates, I suspect that Highbury had more atmosphere, (and history) but ambition (and the need for a ground that could hold more people and thus, generate more by way of income, or profit) decreed a change of venue.

Re West Ham, while - on paper - that was a steal - I am not sure about the immediate benefits in terms of a sense of 'ownership' and 'belonging'. That sort of stuff takes a while to build, and the absence of the kind of entrepreneurial ecology - natural, or organically evolved, as opposed to imposed - in the vicinity of the new ground, cannot help the challenge of crafting some sort of sustainable atmosphere around the club.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

God I hate Sunderland...a terribly run club that somehow manages to continually escape relegation and stymie Liverpool over and over. I simply cannot wait to see them go down...unless they perform an yet another miraculous escape this season.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

God I hate Sunderland...a terribly run club that somehow manages to continually escape relegation and stymie Liverpool over and over. I simply cannot wait to see them go down...unless they perform an yet another miraculous escape this season.

That is a very funny post.

My brother supports Sunderland, and the torture that club have put him through over the years can best described as something that expresses the agony (but never the ecstasy) of love.

Horrible and hideous at times, hopeless, and eternally heartbreaking, that is Sunderland.