The 2023-2024 Football Thread

[Scepticalscribe]

I have no allegiance to Man Utd of course, but the focus on Rashford right now is a red herring IMO. Just a story to sell papers.

....

An excellent post, and I agree with it completely.

More to the point, while Rashford is far from the only dramatically under-performing player at Manchester United just now, nevertheless, (unfortunately), he is presenting - by his behaviour and conduct - (and yes, @timber, you make some very salient points) a very inviting target for public criticism.

Moreover, I am willing to wager that quite a few in Government circles (and the right wing media) have neither forgotten nor forgiven how Rashford compelled the government to reverse their intended policy on school dinners, and, regrettably, his current conduct (no matter how understandable, and @Lord Blackadder makes a very good argument) offers an almost irresistible target.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I dunno.

Even if you work in a toxic environment, you still need to remain professional and do the bare minimum. Two wrongs don't take a right.

If you're a Doctor, Lawyer, or Engineer and you work for a ****** firm or hospital, you still have to deliver for your client/patient. Because the responsibility and consequences are too high to faff around.

Sure Utd are in dire straits. But if you're being paid 300k, and are a local boy who supposedly cares for the club, maybe do your bit and lead by example.

I've worked in toxic departments where i utterly despised everyone. But i still showed up and did what i was contracted to do.

And i'm paid a fraction of what Rashford earns. I used to like him and Sancho but my enthusiasm has since cooled.

When things were going south at West Ham. You didn't see Declan Rice downing tools, he instead lead his team to a European trophy.

Saka gives his all even when he is off form and overplayed.

Yes its fair to say ETH has lost a chunk of his dressing room. But the players have been a large part of that.

Like they were under Moyes, LVG, Mourinho, Oliie, and now ETH.

Also, i feel a lot of these young British players start to believe their own hype sometimes and forget how to conduct themselves and focus on their job

I suppose thats what happens when you pay uneducated men obscene amounts of money and put them on a pedestal for kicking a ball.

I take your point (and to a very large extent, am in full agreement with you), but I also think that Rashford is something of a convenient (very convenient) red herring and distraction - and yes , target - at the moment. Needless to say, this does not excuse his conduct.

Nevertheless, I am struck by the vehemence of the public criticism, (when others are equally at fault), which strikes me as a sort of (almost orchestrated) public pillorying of a previously revered (at least, locally) figure.

Now, Rashford has - unfortunately - clearly provided them with plenty of ammunition, by his current conduct, which is unprofessional, disrespectful, discourteous, and evidently, very disengaged.

 

[daneoni]

I take your point (and to a very large extent, am in full agreement with you), but I also think that Rashford is something of a convenient (very convenient) red herring and distraction at the moment.

Nevertheless, I am struck by the vehemence of the public criticism, (when others are equally at fault), which strikes me as a sort of (almost orchestrated) public pillorying of a previously revered (at least, locally) figure.

Now, Rashford has - unfortunately - provided them with plenty of ammunition, by his current conduct, which is unprofessional, disrespectful, discourteous, and clearly, very disengaged.

I think its because its not the first time..or second time. And he is one of the highest paid men in the country.

Agree the media have an agenda (as usual) but there is some truth to the criticism.

You cant make smoke without fire.

He and Walker are easy picking right now.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I think its because its not the first time..or second time. And hes is one of the highest paid men in the country.

Agree the media have an agenda (as usual) but there is some truth to the criticism.

You cant make smoke without fire.

He and Walker are easy picking right now.

Oh, agreed, and agreed completely.

In fact, I suspect that there is more than "some" truth to these criticisms, rather, there is - I would imagine - pretty much complete truth to this criticism.

And the fact that he may be demotivated for the very good reasons that @Lord Blackadder has already enumerated - while it may serve to explain his demotivation - doesn't remotely excuse his conduct, his sheer unprofessionalism, his discourtesy, and his disrespect for his club, his teammates, his fans, and the wider community that gave rise to him, and that clearly reveres him.

 

[Silencio]

Is Walker getting even close to the amount of stick that Rashford is right now? Honestly I've been pretty tuned out of football happenings lately — the real world intervenes in numerous ways.

It is a good time to cut bait with Rashford IMO. It's probably just gone stale for him, professionally and personally. Maybe the new INEOS team and ETH can get him back on form, but I think he needs a total reset. Probably along the lines of Barca or PSG who've both been interested in him in the past. Get the footballing leadership in place and I'll get behind their decision either way.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Personally I think Rashford deserves all the bad press he is getting.

How Man Utd are doing in the league, how the club are run or managed are all irrelevant to his behaviour.

Going out on the lash then not turning up to training the following day is the story. Not the rest of it.
If I behaved like that I’d be sacked. Given how poor he’s performing and how much he’s paid I’d expect him to continue to be a target (deservedly so) for a while to come.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I am not trying to defend Rashford. But focusing on his behavioral issues is missing the forest for the trees. Rashford isn't the problem with United. If he suddenly started lighting the league on fire with goals, it would change nothing in the bigger-picture sense. And while, yes, you can continue to do a professional job in a toxic environment for a time, the fact it is it will wear you down sooner or later. You can't expect people to deliver indefinitely in that sort of situation. That's a fault of the employers, not the employee.

Is Walker getting even close to the amount of stick that Rashford is right now? Honestly I've been pretty tuned out of football happenings lately — the real world intervenes in numerous ways.

It is a good time to cut bait with Rashford IMO. It's probably just gone stale for him, professionally and personally. Maybe the new INEOS team and ETH can get him back on form, but I think he needs a total reset. Probably along the lines of Barca or PSG who've both been interested in him in the past. Get the footballing leadership in place and I'll get behind their decision either way.

True (though the Walker story just broke, so we'll see). But you can argue that Man City has managed to get off cheaply on everything these days - financial doping, tragedy chanting, player scandals. They are winning everything and playing good football, and their owners are savvy at distracting, deflecting, threatening, and silencing, as the case demands.

And yes, it may be that Rashford needs a change of scene to recapture his form.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Personally I think Rashford deserves all the bad press he is getting.

How Man Utd are doing in the league, how the club are run or managed are all irrelevant to his behaviour.

To a large extent, I agree with you.

Going out on the lash then not turning up to training the following day is the story.

Going on the lash (I love that expression, it recalls student days, and brings them very much to mind), is one thing, but not turning up for work the next day - even if suffering from the after-effects of having gone on the lash - is quite another., and is profoundly unprofessional.

If I behaved like that I’d be sacked.

Well, yes.

With this, we can see that there is a marked double standard, and I will admit that I tire of the tolerance that is habitually extended to misbehaving football stars,, who are all too frequently indulged when they misbehave.

However, while Rashford has brought this upon himself be his behaviour, I also think that there is a sense of gleeful opportunism on the part of some in the right wing media who have neither forgotten nor forgiven Rashford's role in compelling the government to reverse their proposed policy on school dinners.

Given how poor he’s performing and how much he’s paid I’d expect him to continue to be a target (deservedly so) for a while to come.

Indeed.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I have just been reading about Kyle Walker.

Two children?

While his wife is currently expecting their fourth child?

Gosh.

This can hardly be explained away as a rash "something that just somehow happened" as a consequence of convenient amnesia, lowered inhibitions, and too much imbibing on a night out.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Personally I think Rashford deserves all the bad press he is getting.

How Man Utd are doing in the league, how the club are run or managed are all irrelevant to his behaviour.

Going out on the lash then not turning up to training the following day is the story. Not the rest of it.
If I behaved like that I’d be sacked. Given how poor he’s performing and how much he’s paid I’d expect him to continue to be a target (deservedly so) for a while to come.

I wouldn't care much if he was sacked over this and I don't feel sorry for him. I just think the media reaction to this is awfully precious. Nobody would care if he were banging goals in either.

I wouldn't get sacked after a bender; there's nothing in my employment contract that states I couldn't take a sick day because I'm hung over (though to my memory I haven't - yet ). Some of the people who scream the loudest about player behavior are finger-wagging politicians who can't utter a sentence without lying, ex-player pundits from the era when lots of footballers were drunks, or the kind of lowest-common-denominator fans who 'contribute' to call-in shows. None of whom ought to be leading the moral crusade against a footballer who was too hung over to make practice. Makes me think of the dead politician in Ghosts who has to spend eternity with his trousers down...the visual pun makes everything he says sound hypocritical.

Walker's scandal is quite a bit more salacious. I wonder if the furore for him to be sacked will equal Rashford's.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I wouldn't care much if he was sacked over this and I don't feel sorry for him. I just think the media reaction to this is awfully precious. Nobody would care if he were banging goals in either.

I wouldn't get sacked after a bender; there's nothing in my employment contract that states I couldn't take a sick day because I'm hung over (though to my memory I haven't - yet ). Some of the people who scream the loudest about player behavior are finger-wagging politicians who can't utter a sentence without lying, ex-player pundits from the era when lots of footballers were drunks, or the kind of lowest-common-denominator fans who 'contribute' to call-in shows. None of whom ought to be leading the moral crusade against a footballer who was too hung over to make practice. Makes me think of the dead politician in Ghosts who has to spend eternity with his trousers down...the visual pun makes everything he says sound hypocritical.

Walker's scandal is quite a bit more salacious. I wonder if the furore for him to be sacked will equal Rashford's.

I’d probably not get sacked either in reality. But i think he could have dealt with it a whole lot better.
And the reality is there is a very different code of conduct for athletes these days than there was back in many pundits days.

As for the press, I tend to skip those sorts of stories. They do t really interest me.
Many young players are so over paid at such a young age, it’s hardly surprising they have huge egos. Some players are sensible and don’t let it go to their heads (Rice for example). Others just don’t cope well with it.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I wouldn't care much if he was sacked over this and I don't feel sorry for him. I just think the media reaction to this is awfully precious. Nobody would care if he were banging goals in either.

Fair comment.

I wouldn't get sacked after a bender; there's nothing in my employment contract that states I couldn't take a sick day because I'm hung over (though to my memory I haven't - yet ). Some of the people who scream the loudest about player behavior are finger-wagging politicians who can't utter a sentence without lying, ex-player pundits from the era when lots of footballers were drunks, or the kind of lowest-common-denominator fans who 'contribute' to call-in shows. None of whom ought to be leading the moral crusade against a footballer who was too hung over to make practice. Makes me think of the dead politician in Ghosts who has to spend eternity with his trousers down...the visual pun makes everything he says sound hypocritical.

Again, fair comment.

Walker's scandal is quite a bit more salacious. I wonder if the furore for him to be sacked will equal Rashford's.

This question has also crossed my mind.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Arsenal defeat Nottingham Forest (playing away, attired in their hideous psychedelic yellow strip) by two goals to one.

A pleased, and relieved Gunner, here.

Playing Forest away has been a bit of a challenge in recent seasons.

Anyway, for now, we lie second in the table.

 

[pachyderm]

Wrexham lost... YAY!

 

[Don Quixote]

Wrexham lost... YAY!

I'm tired of those two as well...

 

[Apple fanboy]

What happened with Luton though? Great result for them.

 

[Don Quixote]

What happened with Luton though? Great result for them.

GREAT RESULT!

4 - 0


Staving off relegation...

 

[Silencio]

Luton's been firing on all cylinders lately. Great to see.

Feel like Brighton's gone off the boil, but they're still ahead of Man Utd in the table.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Wrexham lost... YAY!

LOL, the Hollywood boys FC are outfoxed by the Indian Chicken Conglomerate Advertising Department.

Blackburn absolutely roasted Wrexham for pace most of the match...Wrexham's back line are slow. At least by Championship standards. Tozer got outsprinted for the second goal (though admittedly the keeper had also totally gone walkabout) - a Premier League-level center back would have been able to cover that. If they do get promoted to League One I think they are going to have to do a bit of rebuild, because right now their squad is a pretty heterogeneous mix of different skill levels. And getting beyond League One is going to be very difficult without a big step up in funding.

It is interesting to see how much a figure of hate they have become with other fans. People seem madder at them than Man City. Essentially everyone wants to see them fail now... Rob and Ryan's charm offensive seems to have ultimately backfired, if not with a global audience at least with English football fans?

 

[Apple fanboy]

GREAT RESULT!

4 - 0


Staving off relegation...

Here’s hoping!

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Luton are showing some real signs of life. Everyone from Crystal Palace downwards are in the mix, so it could end up being a really tight relegation battle. And that's before factoring in what happens with Everton.

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

Luton are showing some real signs of life. Everyone from Crystal Palace downwards are in the mix, so it could end up being a really tight relegation battle. And that's before factoring in what happens with Everton.

I have to say, as a freshly-relegated-team's fan, I don't miss the annual relgation battle.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I have to say, as a freshly-relegated-team's fan, I don't miss the annual relgation battle.

I'm chuckling, reading this post, but I sympathise completely with you.

 

[mrsmith1]

Arsenal defeat Nottingham Forest (playing away, attired in their hideous psychedelic yellow strip) by two goals to one.

A pleased, and relieved Gunner, here.

Playing Forest away has been a bit of a challenge in recent seasons.

Anyway, for now, we lie second in the table.

Arsenal’s best player on the night was our goalkeeper Matt Turner, without him letting a soft shot in Arsenal never looked like scoring. it was a game Forest lost more than Arsenal won.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Arsenal’s best player on the night was our goalkeeper Matt Turner, without him letting a soft shot in Arsenal never looked like scoring. it was a game Forest lost more than Arsenal won.

No, Arsenal won, - and Gabriel Jesus is working on becoming more clinical in front of goal - though they took their (sweet) time in doing it.