The 2023-2024 Football Thread

[Lord Blackadder]

Chelsea looked short of ideas at Anfield yesterday, but it was a great performance by Liverpool and the first time they've beaten Chelsea in open play for almost four years. Conor Bradley continued his meteoric rise with a really nice goal.

Darwin Nunez had perhaps the most Darwin Nunez game ever, and one that encapsulates him as a footballer more than any description could. He set a record by hitting the post four times, including a missed penalty. He seemed to be everywhere at once causing Chelsea panic, created lots of opportunities, and did bag an assist. He makes a lot more sense as a player if you see him as a player who creates chances and supports the attack rather than an out-and-out goalscorer. Very different from Firmino but performing a broadly similar role in the squad.

There is increasing talk that Bradley, a more orthodox right back, might even become a fixture in that position, with Alexander Arnold semi-permanently moving to midfield. Mere talk at the moment but if Bradley keeps developing it could certainly be an option.

 

[Don Quixote]

0 - 0

WAKE UP @pachyderm !!

 

[Don Quixote]

vs

Feb 3rd ... lost your wifi @pachyderm ?

 

[laptech]

Chelsea looked short of ideas at Anfield yesterday, but it was a great performance by Liverpool and the first time they've beaten Chelsea in open play for almost four years. Conor Bradley continued his meteoric rise with a really nice goal.

Darwin Nunez had perhaps the most Darwin Nunez game ever, and one that encapsulates him as a footballer more than any description could. He set a record by hitting the post four times, including a missed penalty. He seemed to be everywhere at once causing Chelsea panic, created lots of opportunities, and did bag an assist. He makes a lot more sense as a player if you see him as a player who creates chances and supports the attack rather than an out-and-out goalscorer. Very different from Firmino but performing a broadly similar role in the squad.

There is increasing talk that Bradley, a more orthodox right back, might even become a fixture in that position, with Alexander Arnold semi-permanently moving to midfield. Mere talk at the moment but if Bradley keeps developing it could certainly be an option.

I've purposely not listened to the football media when it comes to the comings and goings of Liverpool because their manager is leaving and we all know that a new manager will want to put their own stamp on the club which means everything that is being said about the current crop of players will change. So to me, there is no point in knowing what is going to happen with Bradley or Arnold or any other player because the new manager might not like them and want's them out or does not like how they play and thus moves them around into different positions on the pitch.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

everything that is being said about the current crop of players will change.

Modern football clubs, when well run, don't work like that. Managers are no longer autocrats. There was a big sneer over Liverpool's 'transfer committee' when Klopp arrived at Liverpool, but the club has successfully taken a holistic approach to player recruitment, with the result that we have bought generally very good value in the market, from a variety of sources, AND now have a handful of academy products playing in the first team.

That kind of longer-term, wide-spectrum squad management only happens when decision-making is spread amongst a group of people ach with their own expertise and focus. Klopp has himself said several times that this system works better than all the onus being placed on him.

So if the system really was set up properly, and if Klopp's success can work well within it, we WON'T see massive upheaval in the squad after Klopp goes. There will be substantial change, of course, but not chaos or a burn-it-down-and-start over situation. People like Mike Gordon, president of FSG, and whomever our new sporting director will be when Jorg Schmadtke leaves soon, will be instrumental in maintaining some continuity.

Gordon is the man who brought Klopp in. Here's hoping he pulls another rabbit out of his hat.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Modern football clubs, when well run, don't work like that. Managers are no longer autocrats. There was a big sneer over Liverpool's 'transfer committee' when Klopp arrived at Liverpool, but the club has successfully taken a holistic approach to player recruitment, with the result that we have bought generally very good value in the market, from a variety of sources, AND now have a handful of academy products playing in the first team.

That kind of longer-term, wide-spectrum squad management only happens when decision-making is spread amongst a group of people ach with their own expertise and focus. Klopp has himself said several times that this system works better than all the onus being placed on him.

So if the system really was set up properly, and if Klopp's success can work well within it, we WON'T see massive upheaval in the squad after Klopp goes. There will be substantial change, of course, but not chaos or a burn-it-down-and-start over situation. People like Mike Gordon, president of FSG, and whomever our new sporting director will be when Jorg Schmadtke leaves soon, will be instrumental in maintaining some continuity.

Gordon is the man who brought Klopp in. Here's hoping he pulls another rabbit out of his hat.

One of the things that most impressed me about Klopp was his ability to regenerate, as much as rebuild, and regenerate in a way that made the changes seem incremental and organic, rather than the proverbial "clean sweep".

I have also been impressed by what would be described, nowadays, as "emotional intelligence".

At the very least, he will have left Liverpool in a far better place (in every way), than they were in when he first arrived at the club.

 

[Apple fanboy]

One of the things that most impressed me about Klopp was his ability to regenerate, as much as rebuild, and regenerate in a way that made the changes seem incremental and organic, rather than the proverbial "clean sweep".

I have also been impressed by what would be described, nowadays, as "emotional intelligence".

At the very least, he will have left Liverpool in a far better place (in every way), than they were in when he first arrived at the club.

Indeed. He is leaving with the same number of Premier League titles as Blackburn and Leicester City!

(Sorry @Lord Blackadder i couldn’t resist!).

But yes I’d agree they are a better team than the one he took over. But with an ageing talisman in Salah who is the heart and soul of that squad.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Indeed. He is leaving with the same number of Premier League titles as Blackburn and Leicester City!

That is only because of the sustained excellence (buttressed by bottomless wealth of Manchester City.

Liverpool won the Champion's League on Klopp's watch, and were runners-up, twice, to Manchester City in the Premier League, twice having been pipped by a point at the very end, - having had a superb season, and amassed an astonishing number of points, during one of those seasons, Liverpool had only been defeated once - despite the significant gap in available resources.

And they have won the Premier League, once, (something nobody else bar Leicester has managed for the best part of the past decade).

But yes I’d agree they are a better team than the one he took over.

Very much so, to my mind.

But with an ageing talisman in Salah who is the heart and soul of that squad.

Actually, I beg to differ: To my mind, the heart and soul of that squad is a different (but still ageing) talisman: Virgil van Dijk, whom I think was possibly one of the most important purchases made by Klopp.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Nightmare start for Phillips in a West Ham shirt. A short back pass and he gives away a goal in 3 minutes.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Indeed. He is leaving with the same number of Premier League titles as Blackburn and Leicester City!

(Sorry @Lord Blackadder i couldn’t resist!).

We won't win a quadruple this year.....but if we do I'll be re-quoting this. 🤣

But yes I’d agree they are a better team than the one he took over. But with an ageing talisman in Salah who is the heart and soul of that squad.

One thing that is worth noting about Liverpool under Klopp: Yes, they are one of the 'big' teams but the fact of the matter is that under Klopp this club have over-performed. Going by revenue, transfer spend, on-paper squad depth and so forth, Liverpool had to exceed performance expectations in order to win silverware. They have been more efficient with their resources than any of the other 'big' clubs, including Man City. And vastly more efficient than some of their traditional Premier League rivals such as Man Utd and Chelsea (and probably Arsenal too for some recent seasons).

In a way this just highlights the financial inequality of the league, even at the top end - in order to win the league you either have to be Man City, or an extremely rich club that ALSO punches above its weight. Credit for this overperformance goes to Klopp and his coaching team, but also to the director of football and some of the key suits at FSG. A lot had to go right with the organization in order to squeeze consistent elite performances out of the club. And that is also very hard to sustain over the long term - frankly I'm surprised they've done it as long as they have.

Which is why I expect Liverpool to regress substantially after Klopp. It's just too much to ask for his replacement to be both as gifted a manager as he is, but also equally skilled at filling his shoes in working with the broader team running the club (a team that has also turned over more than once now). And all that stuff matters a lot more than Salah's goals. He's a fabulous player but the structure FSG and Klopp have developed can win things even without him. But neither that structure nor Salah himself will continue at the club for long after Klopp goes, I fear.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Nightmare start for Phillips in a West Ham shirt. A short back pass and he gives away a goal in 3 minutes.

Could have been worse: At least, you salvaged a point from the game.

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

Man U 3 Wolves 2 - Wolves making it squeaky bum time for Man United right now.
A number of Manchester players really don't deserve to be there, in my opinion.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Man U 3 Wolves 2 - Wolves making it squeaky bum time for Man United right now.
A number of Manchester players really don't deserve to be there, in my opinion.

And Wolves have now equalised (in what used to be known as "Fergie Time", in other words, the 95th minute)..

It is now three goals apiece.

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

This game just lit up!
Added time and Wolves draw level.
Then just moments later Man U score to make it 4-3!!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Man U 3 Wolves 2 - Wolves making it squeaky bum time for Man United right now.

I hadn't spotted that Wolves had pulled one back - went to check and discovered that they had just scored a third.

A number of Manchester players really don't deserve to be there, in my opinion.

Completely agree.

Overpaid and demotivated.

We used to have a squad that was home to several such players, but, over the course of a couple of seasons, Mikel Arteta managed to despatch most - if not, all - of them.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

This game just lit up!
Added time and Wolves draw level.

Yes, just caught that.

Then just moments later Man U score to make it 4-3!!

Wow.

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

10th minute of 9 added...anti-Fergie time?

 

[Apple fanboy]

We won't win a quadruple this year.....but if we do I'll be re-quoting this. 🤣



One thing that is worth noting about Liverpool under Klopp: Yes, they are one of the 'big' teams but the fact of the matter is that under Klopp this club have over-performed. Going by revenue, transfer spend, on-paper squad depth and so forth, Liverpool had to exceed performance expectations in order to win silverware. They have been more efficient with their resources than any of the other 'big' clubs, including Man City. And vastly more efficient than some of their traditional Premier League rivals such as Man Utd and Chelsea (and probably Arsenal too for some recent seasons).

In a way this just highlights the financial inequality of the league, even at the top end - in order to win the league you either have to be Man City, or an extremely rich club that ALSO punches above its weight. Credit for this overperformance goes to Klopp and his coaching team, but also to the director of football and some of the key suits at FSG. A lot had to go right with the organization in order to squeeze consistent elite performances out of the club. And that is also very hard to sustain over the long term - frankly I'm surprised they've done it as long as they have.

Which is why I expect Liverpool to regress substantially after Klopp. It's just too much to ask for his replacement to be both as gifted a manager as he is, but also equally skilled at filling his shoes in working with the broader team running the club (a team that has also turned over more than once now). And all that stuff matters a lot more than Salah's goals. He's a fabulous player but the structure FSG and Klopp have developed can win things even without him. But neither that structure nor Salah himself will continue at the club for long after Klopp goes, I fear.

I think you’ll have a tougher time after Klopp for sure. But let’s see who you get. You never know there maybe a real gem of a manager who can manage people extremely well.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

10th minute of 9 added...anti-Fergie time?

Yes, perhaps, anti-Fergie time, or counter-Fergie-time.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Could have been worse: At least, you salvaged a point from the game.

Indeed. But it’s the sort of game we need to win to maintain 6th.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I think you’ll have a tougher time after Klopp for sure. But let’s see who you get.

Let us see who they try to recruit.

You never know there maybe a real gem of a manager who can manage people extremely well.

View attachment 2344134

No, no, no, no.

Never.

Not ever.

No. Just no.

 

[daneoni]

Wolves only have themselves to blame.

Whoever comes in after Klopp has a monumental job ahead of them. New Director of Football and backroom staff needed
Then has to try and keep hold of Salah, VVD etc
Then has to implement a style of play that makes use of Klopp type players since he won't be given crazy money
Then all of the above needs to be done whilst facing stiff competition from the so called big 6 who keep marching on.

I don't envy whoever is coming in, and 'Pool fans may have to embrace stoicism for a bit.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Nevertheless, I daresay that - as Klopp yet remains in place until the end of the season - that Liverpool will focus on challenging for, fighting for, and/or collecting as many trophies, or titles, as possible until his departure.

 

[laptech]

It is a bit ironic to see what is being written about Klopp and his time at Liverpool because everything that is being said about Klopp closely parodies that of Sir Alex Ferguson and his time at Man United. The big difference being that when Ferguson said we was going to retire the squad was not in good standing but there is an reason for this that can be explained. It is my personal opinion that Ferguson would have carried on being manager at the club if it wasn't for two things that happened in 2012-2013. One, the death of the head of the Glazer family, the man who had the business know how of owning a sporting club where as his children did not and secondly and I feel the real reason he left when he did, his wife's sister passing away. Ferguson has always stated that he would retire from the game when his wife asks him too or when she needs him (first time he said he was going to retire his wife talked him out if it). His wife needed him to help her cope with her sisters death and he did what he said he would always do, retire when his wife asks/needs him. Remember, the club had won the league the year previous so all it needed was Ferguson to work his magic again and re-structure and strengthen the team because lets face it, a number of the players were getting on and others were struggling but it was not to be because of what was going on with his wife. There is no doubt in my mind Ferguson would have carried on being manager of United and you will see in the article I have linked to that Ferguson states that he would have carried on as manager if what had happened had not happened.

This article from the Mirror explains it all. https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/sir-alex-ferguson-manutd-exit-29920412

There are very few people that know the real reasons as to why Ferguson retired. All they focus on is the poor state of the team when he left, new players needed, older players to be sold, something I have no doubt Ferguson would have addressed if had still been the manager but due to bad timing of personal stuff going on in his life, it was not to be.

If it hadn't been for his wife's sister suddenly passing away I do believe Ferguson would have done what Klopp is doing, leave the club and team in good standing.

 

[Silencio]

Fergie did go out on top, at least. I doubt he'd have won another title again if he's stuck around longer, with the Glazer-induced rot truly setting in to the club and the competition from city in particular getting stronger and stronger. There was also David Gill's departure, opening the door for Ed Woodward's disastrous footballing decisions.

United have a real gem in Kobbie Mainoo. Put him and Bellingham together in midfield for England — what a tantalizing prospect.

United finally fielded their strongest starting XI last night, and they looked the part in the first half. When ETH went to the bench, the trouble really kicked off. That Antony signing looks worse and worse every day.