The 2023-2024 Football Thread

[Lord Blackadder]

It was very disappointing behavior from van Dijk as a senior player, veteran, captain etc etc. the defense have been a bit of a shambles and I am sure Virgil is feeling a lot of pressure now to perform, not just personally but as a defensive unit. And Newcastle are a really annoying team to face.

That doesn’t excuse his behavior though, and Liverpool can’t afford to lose him to bans. Hopefully some time off the pitch clears his head because the sloppiness, mistakes, and indiscipline will get punished at this level.

Edit: I’ll need to watch the match replay before opining too much on the Trent second-yellow-that-never-was, but my initial reaction was it could certainly have been two yellows but we all know refs can be lenient early in matches. Had it happened in the 80th minute, he probably would have gone. With this match being so chaotic anyway, it’s hard to say how it influenced things.

I think the chatter that the ref ‘bottled it’ is just ‘proper football man’ talk.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

If Trent Alexander-Arnold had received a second yellow card - for, his first yellow card and the second-yellow-that-never-was both occurred before Virgil van Dijk's red card - now, needless to say, this comes from the land of speculation, with the caveat "what if, never was" - however, in TTA's subsequent absence, I suspect that VVD might have been less aggressively impulsive in how he approached the game.

Moreover, I have read that VVD was irked by TTA during the game, but - with column inches and airtime to fill - this, too, could be without foundation.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I doubt the ref bottled it as it was at St James Park. But as you say more likely took the view it was very early in the game. Highlights are on in a bit, so I’ll see for myself then.

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

Nice to see Championship football being as unpredictable as ever. Also nice to see my beloved Saints find their feet without a number of their top players from last year on matchday, due to either being sold, loaned out or awaiting sale and "not in the right frame of mind". Unbeaten so far in their first 4 games of the season.

Che Adams to Everton (why would you?) looks to be on and we've just had a rumour that Perraud is off to France, with Lyanco having just touched down in Qatar.
And of course we just sold Tella to Bayer Leverkusen for 20 million as well.
Add all that to our recent transfer income and we're up around two hundred million! Not that it all will go back into the club, such is the reality of modern football ownership.

Really happy for JWP to be getting a good start at West Ham after many fans in London stating that they didn't think he was good enough for their club - now he's the second coming of [insert first comer].
I saw a post on social media that showed his dressing room setup - still had his Saints shinpads on display. Glad to see he hasn't forgotten his roots just yet.
I think he has the makings of a West Ham legend.

Harold Kane seems to be enjoying his first couple of weeks in Ze Germany. He might be in danger of ending up with some silverware at some stage...will he know what do do with it? He's been a Tottenham man for so long he might end up having a stroke with the shock of it all.

I'm also a bit fed up with seeing a lot of column inches dedicated to the "Nothing to see here" league (Saudis). Nefarious goings-on between media companies and the State-sponsored league of misogyny. Don't like it at all.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Nice to see Championship football being as unpredictable as ever. Also nice to see my beloved Saints find their feet without a number of their top players from last year on matchday, due to either being sold, loaned out or awaiting sale and "not in the right frame of mind". Unbeaten so far in their first 4 games of the season.

Che Adams to Everton (why would you?) looks to be on and we've just had a rumour that Perraud is off to France, with Lyanco having just touched down in Qatar.
And of course we just sold Tella to Bayer Leverkusen for 20 million as well.
Add all that to our recent transfer income and we're up around two hundred million! Not that it all will go back into the club, such is the reality of modern football ownership.

Really happy for JWP to be getting a good start at West Ham after many fans in London stating that they didn't think he was good enough for their club - now he's the second coming of [insert first comer].
I saw a post on social media that showed his dressing room setup - still had his Saints shinpads on display. Glad to see he hasn't forgotten his roots just yet.
I think he has the makings of a West Ham legend.

Harold Kane seems to be enjoying his first couple of weeks in Ze Germany. He might be in danger of ending up with some silverware at some stage...will he know what do do with it? He's been a Tottenham man for so long he might end up having a stroke with the shock of it all.

I'm also a bit fed up with seeing a lot of column inches dedicated to the "Nothing to see here" league (Saudis). Nefarious goings-on between media companies and the State-sponsored league of misogyny. Don't like it at all.

Well done on the unbeaten start. JWP has slotted in very well. I was concerned when we lost Rice that we would struggle. I know it’s very early days, but things seem good for now. I do think we could do with a bit more possession and I suppose that is where we are missing Rice’s passing.
Unfortunately we get the honour of being Luton’s first home game. I remember the same thing at Forrest last year. It Will be like a cup game.
Oh well. I’m sure it will be easier than City the following week!

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

Well done on the unbeaten start. JWP has slotted in very well. I was concerned when we lost Rice that we would struggle. I know it’s very early days, but things seem good for now. I do think we could do with a bit more possession and I suppose that is where we are missing Rice’s passing.
Unfortunately we get the honour of being Luton’s first home game. I remember the same thing at Forrest last year. It Will be like a cup game.
Oh well. I’m sure it will be easier than City the following week!

Luton’s ground is ready to play on!? Wow.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

The Spanish RFEF is tripling down on defending Rubiales. It seems they are willing to deliberately get the entire national federation suspended by UEFA in order to stonewall any Spanish government investigations into the whole affair.

[EDIT: It's even sleazier than it sounds at first - the whole point is that if the RFEF were to be suspended by UEFA, Real Madrid and Barca would be expelled from the Champions League (along with any other Spanish clubs in UEFA competitions). This would of course bankrupt Barca. The RFEF is attempting to blackmail everyone by holding Real and Barca off the edge of a building and threatening to drop them unless....what? we just forget the whole thing?? Total madness.]

Shocking entitlement and selfishness from a corrupt cadre of good- ‘ol boys who will do anything - even burn down Spanish football - to defend their little cabal. This story is far from over.

The whole governmental non-interference philosophy in football was intended to prevent banana republic dictators from abusing football federations for propaganda or other nefarious purposes. But the concept is much more often abused as a way for bad actors to prevent reform of corrupt and incompetent federations. Good idea in concept, not so great in practice.

 

[Don Quixote]

The Spanish RFEF is tripling down on defending Rubiales. It seems they are willing to deliberately get the entire national federation suspended by UEFA in order to stonewall any Spanish government investigations into the whole affair.

[EDIT: It's even sleazier than it sounds at first - the whole point is that if the RFEF were to be suspended by UEFA, Real Madrid and Barca would be expelled from the Champions League (along with any other Spanish clubs in UEFA competitions). This would of course bankrupt Barca. The RFEF is attempting to blackmail everyone by holding Real and Barca off the edge of a building and threatening to drop them unless....what? we just forget the whole thing?? Total madness.]

Shocking entitlement and selfishness from a corrupt cadre of good- ‘ol boys who will do anything - even burn down Spanish football - to defend their little cabal. This story is far from over.

They whole governmental non-interference philosophy in football was intended to prevent banana republic dictators from abusing football federations for propaganda or other nefarious purposes. But the concept is much more often abused as a way for bad actors to prevent reform of corrupt and incompetent federations. Good idea in concept, not so great in practice.

damn

 

[Scepticalscribe]

The Spanish RFEF is tripling down on defending Rubiales. It seems they are willing to deliberately get the entire national federation suspended by UEFA in order to stonewall any Spanish government investigations into the whole affair.

[EDIT: It's even sleazier than it sounds at first - the whole point is that if the RFEF were to be suspended by UEFA, Real Madrid and Barca would be expelled from the Champions League (along with any other Spanish clubs in UEFA competitions). This would of course bankrupt Barca. The RFEF is attempting to blackmail everyone by holding Real and Barca off the edge of a building and threatening to drop them unless....what? we just forget the whole thing?? Total madness.]

Shocking entitlement and selfishness from a corrupt cadre of good- ‘ol boys who will do anything - even burn down Spanish football - to defend their little cabal. This story is far from over.

They whole governmental non-interference philosophy in football was intended to prevent banana republic dictators from abusing football federations for propaganda or other nefarious purposes. But the concept is much more often abused as a way for bad actors to prevent reform of corrupt and incompetent federations. Good idea in concept, not so great in practice.

Their arrogance, entitlement, and pure sleaze are unbelievable.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I would like to see the men's team step up on this. They should not have to, the RFEF should know better and relying on players to set the behavioral examples is totally backwards...but as I said before, if the men's team went on strike I don't think the RFEF would survive long. Ditto the clubs - but we know their suits are part of the same rotten good 'ol boys' club, so that won't happen. And currently Barca are probably soiling themselves at the thought of being out of Europe, the cowards.

It's also the fans' chance to step up and make their feelings known. Collectively, players and fans have far more power than a paltry national football federation.

The RFEF want to burn down Spanish football...I think that means its time to burn down the RFEF.

 

[decafjava]

Their arrogance, entitlement, and pure sleaze are unbelievable.

I haven't commented here for awhile but I followed the World Cup with interest as it was refreshing and very nice to see women's football (any women's sport really) get due recognition and it was some good football. It is sad that this edition will have this sorry incident as one of the main things people remember.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I would like to see the men's team step up on this. They should not have to, the RFEF should know better and relying on players to set the behavioral examples is totally backwards...but as I said before, if the men's team went on strike I don't think the RFEF would survive long. Ditto the clubs - but we know their suits are part of the same rotten good 'ol boys' club, so that won't happen. And currently Barca are probably soiling themselves at the thought of being out of Europe, the cowards.

It's also the fans' chance to step up and make their feelings known. Collectively, players and fans have far more power than a paltry national football federation.

The RFEF want to burn down Spanish football...I think that means its time to burn down the RFEF.

Agree completely.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I haven't commented here for awhile but I followed the World Cup with interest as it was refreshing and very nice to see women's football (any women's sport really) get due recognition and it was some good footbal. It is sad that this edition will have this sorry incident as one of the main things people remember.

Sad, but possibly very productive if it leads to a cleanout of the system in Spain. That kind of progress is, frankly, bigger than a world title IMO.

EDIT: Two other points: Spanish authorities are considering/preparing criminal charges against Rubiales, and if they do the RFEF will either have to follow through on their idiotic threats or shut up and cooperate....and Rubiales' mom has gone on hunger strike in a local church to protest the 'inhumane' treatment of her son. Yep, his mom. You can't make this stuff up.

 

[SactoGuy18]

Wow. When European football has a major scandal break out, it gets bad fast in a big way. I remember how a match-fixing scandal caused huge damage to Serie A several years ago, and how this mess in Spain could cause major issues in La Liga. No wonder why one Lionel Messi endd up in the USA instead of returning to Spain.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

It has escalated very quickly.

And while the non-consensual kiss sparked this whole controversy, I think Rubiales' aggressive gaslighting and over-reaction to the backlash ("not only did I not do anything wrong, YOU are all persecuting me!"), and the RFEF's suicidal decision to side with him, is what has led us to this state of affairs. We are at an impasse between two very different and mutually incompatible cultures - the good 'ol boys club and the progressivism of a more recent generation. The scary thing is, UEFA and FIFA's culture is really just as bad as the RFEF. Will they see the writing on the wall here and move towards real reform, or will they ultimately try to make it all go away with some sort of slap on the wrist to the RFEF?

 

[Apple fanboy]

An apology would have gone a long way to resolving this issue. The fact that he is still insisting he did nothing wrong, shows a lot about his thought process.

Looks like McGuire is back off again. Apparently he’s not getting enough of a golden handshake from his current employer. Shane.

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

An apology would have gone a long way to resolving this issue. The fact that he is still insisting he did nothing wrong, shows a lot about his thought process.

Indeed - a simple "I apologise if I crossed a line - I was swept up in the moment and it got away from me and I am truly sorry".
It would have all been over then - but now it's escalated to accusations of sexual assault and counter accusations of "she wanted it".
What a sad old state this game is in.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Just read that the Spanish football federation (RFEF) have actually asked UEFA to suspend it from international competitions because of what they argue is government interference, given that the government have made it clear that they would like to see Rubiales removed from his position.

Unbelievable.

I devoutly hope that UEFA do not comply with this.

However, the degree of (almost insane) support that the federation are giving Rubiales - who has made the story all about him, and how he is a victim, when the team have actually won the WWC - who has been aggressively gas-lighting anyone who questions his right to behave like a sexist boor - is shocking and shaming.

Moreover, I would argue that the team would never even have been in a position to begin to call out, and challenge, this sort of behaviour if they had not actually brought home the World Cup. Their concerns in earlier campaigns had been dismissed with contempt by the federation, where a toxic culture clearly prevails.

 

[Lioness~]

I haven't commented here for awhile but I followed the World Cup with interest as it was refreshing and very nice to see women's football (any women's sport really) get due recognition and it was some good football. It is sad that this edition will have this sorry incident as one of the main things people remember.

It’s sad and even horrible in a deepest sense, absolutely. But it’s also great that it comes to surface and visible in such big tournament, how men from highest level of leaders simple see it as their right to abuse football playing women. Those pictures that have gone viral, don’t lie.

This abuse have been going on forever in Women’s Football from trainers and leaders etc.
It usually gets quiet down from all parts. Men are ashamed of their actions, and women are ashamed for being taking advantage of.
This are causing an hurricane that will clean out a lot hopefully.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/27/...soccer-kiss-womens-rights-intl-spt/index.html

 

[laptech]

With regards to the Spanish FA asking UEFA to have the country banned from European competitions because of interference from the government is justified because people need to remember that what happened on the football pitch is technically classed as a 'work place incident' and thus should be handled by the employer, in this case FIFA because the World Cup is a FIFA sanctioned event. People tend to forget that footballers are paid employees too and whilst they perform on a public stage (football pitch), they are an employee, no different to you or I, being paid to do a job. This then means that anything that takes place at your place of work is handled by your employer, even disciplinary matters. A good example to use here is work place incidents at company Christmas parties. How many times have we heard of people getting sacked because they acted inappropriately to members of the opposite sex? the person get's fired and that's it, it very rarely goes any further with having to get the police involved. If the were called, I can tell you from experience that the first thing they do is speak to the company boss and the company HR (if they have one) to establish what action was taken. If they say the person has been sacked the police will say that is sufficient enough and leave because they will say it is a 'work place incident' and as such has been handled sufficiently and appropriately. Please note though, the work place victim does have the right to make a criminal complaint but it would have to be done of their own doing and not via the company, unless the incident is of such a level that warrants a criminal investigation.

What happened to Jenni Hermoso would therefore be classed as a 'work place incident' and because technically she was working for FIFA at the time, it is up to her employer to take action of which FIFA are doing. If Jenni Hermoso wanted to take the matter further, she would have to take out a private prosecution against Luis Rubiales. This is why the Spanish FA are so incensed because it would have to be Jenni Hermoso approaching the Spanish police to make a complaint, not the authorities approaching her, hence why the claim for government interference.

What Luis Rubiales did was wrong and it should be handled appropriately which I believe it is being done so, by FIFA. I therefore can understand the stance of the Spanish FA and why they are so incensed by their government getting involved.

 

[Lioness~]

Bye bye 👋🏼

Mail Sport (@MailSport) on X

🚨 EXCL: FIFA to push for Luis Rubiales to be BANNED from football for 15 years ✍️ @MattHughesDM https://t.co/KFWXySthLn

x.com

 

[laptech]

Bye bye 👋🏼

Mail Sport (@MailSport) on X

🚨 EXCL: FIFA to push for Luis Rubiales to be BANNED from football for 15 years ✍️ @MattHughesDM https://t.co/KFWXySthLn

x.com

FIFA have to be careful on the punishment they dish out because it has to be fair in the context of the incident because let's not forget the World Cup 2014 incident involving Luis Suarez biting the shoulder of Italian player Giorgio Chiellini. Suarez was only banned from all football activity for 4 months and a international ban of 9 games. FIFA will have to be careful here because if they claim the kiss was 'sexual assault', then both instances would have been under the 'assault' category. FIFA would then have to explain why an unsanctioned kiss deserves a far more severe punishment than that of a player physically biting another player.

Edit: Forgot to add others. The Zidane headbutt in 2006 (France v Italy). FIFA give Zidane a international 3 match ban and fined 7,500 Swiss francs (the incident occurred in Switzerland)

Eric Cantona kung fu kick. The English FA ban him for 9 months and instead of prison time is given 120 hours community service.

Granted the last one is a national federation and not an international one but it gives an insight into the type of bans players have got for assaulting someone. These type of bans could be used as an argument against a length ban if FIFA gives Luis Rubiales one.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

What Luis Rubiales did was wrong and it should be handled appropriately which I believe it is being done so, by FIFA. I therefore can understand the stance of the Spanish FA and why they are so incensed by their government getting involved.

It happened on live TV in front of millions of people. If a crime was committed, the relevant Spanish authorities have not only a right, but a duty, to investigate.

FIFA and UEFA are themselves corrupt and in need of reform. I don’t trust them to deal with this without independent oversight and pressure from governments and the public.

With that being said, if the authorities determine no crime was committed, it becomes a matter of professional ethics and FIFA/UEFA will be responsible for dealing with it. Even if they ban Rubiales, that still totally fails to address the insane behavior of the RFEF. At this point they all need to go - now.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Update: The internal politics have been churning at the RFEF, and they have made a startling about face from the defiant press conference las Friday. The RFEF's regional presidents have collectively called for Rubiales to immediately resign, and have also called for "deep and imminent restructuring" at the RFEF.

Note, however, that the RFEF is currently being run by Rubiales' right hand man in his absence, and Vilda, the controversial women's team manager, is still in his post. Real 'change' and 'restructuring' means the people running this organization now need to leave. The leadership is the problem.

---

Totally unrelated, but I watched back the Liverpool-Newcastle match yesterday, and I think the ref got both calls on Trent right. Throwing the ball away was foolish and the ref was well within his rights there, but the raised arm against Gordon was a foul - not a yellow. Virgil's red was a clear red to me once you see it in slow-mo. If he gets a longer ban for running his mouth afterwards he only has himself to blame...it is sounding likely that he will be sitting out two or more matches. Ugh.

Liverpool played remarkably well with ten men, and Trent settled down after his early first half calamities (and when he was tasked with simply defending). Newcastle failed to finish their chances and all their time-wasting and windups got them nowhere in the end. I think Howe made a mistake taking off all his creative players and trying hold the 1-0 scoreline. Nunez scored the same goal twice - both good finishes.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Chelsea - who have spent almost, or, close to, a billion pounds - £1billion - (think about that - an astonishing sum of money) - since being bought by Todd Boehly and Clearlake Capital last year, and who, in that space of time, have twice broken the British transfer record, have now decided to remove a £10 subsidy (per individual fan) for travel on club coaches to away games.

According to the Guardian, the club has attempted to argue that it is "not financially sustainable to continue to offer subsidised coach travel" to away games.

What is hilarious - in the sort of twisted sense of hilarity informed by irony - is that it is widely rumoured that the coach subsidy budget cost around 250k (to the club), which would be - perhaps, approximately a week's, or a fortnight's, or a month's salary - for a single Premiership player, depending on the player.

The Chelsea Supporters' Trust made representations to the club (at a meeting with officials from the club) about the removal of this subsidy (in the middle of a cost of living crisis, and for what is a relatively small sum of money from the perspective of a club with a history of jaw-dropping profligate spending), and argued that removing the subsidy would have an adverse impact on the following groups of users (and this is not an exhaustive list):

· Young supporters

· Supporters who use wheelchairs and mobility scooters

· People who are unable to drive due to cost or medical conditions

· Supporters who are ambulant disabled

· Supporters who require to be dropped off very close to the stadium

· Vulnerable supporters

· Supporters who rely on this affordable mode of transport to support the club.


I am lost for words.