The 2023-2024 Football Thread

[Lord Blackadder]

Tight match at Anfield, but Liverpool have continued to finish matches very strongly after slow starts.

Hammers fans will wonder how things might have been different had Antonio buried that header in front of an open goal to go 2-0 up early in the first half. But in truth Liverpool created a lot of chances and eventually some of them went in.

Still, West Ham stuck to their plan and never looked totally out of it. Moyes had the midfield retreat a bit in the second half which invited more pressure but did create space for a couple of counterattacking opportunities. I thought West Ham were doing well to create turnovers high up the pitch but they may have been tiring at that point. Until Jota tapped in the third I felt like things could still go very much either way.

Nunez’s finish for Liverpool’s second was spectacular - he blows hot and cold but he has the talent to do amazing things, and he is clicking more now after taking time to bed in.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Arsenal - as a team, as a collective, as a unit - have not been as coherent - as a team - as they were last season.

Two all to Spurs is a disappointing result, for Arsenal were disjointed at times, and too frenetic in the first half (while also failing to put away a number of half decent chances over both halves, yes Havertz and Jesus both at fault).

Then, there is the fact that Raya - who is thought (by Arteta) to be better with the ball at his feet - has, to all intents and purposes, replaced Ramsdale (who is a fine keeper) at No 1.

I wonder whether this has unsettled the defence, and contributed to the choppy, unsettled, uneasy football that Arsenal are playing.

Of course, it could simply be that the pressure on them - for, nobody expected them to finish second last season, and they led the table, as they were top for most of the season -, something I don't expect to see happening this season -- is telling on them this season, for they will be expected to deliver.

 

[Apple fanboy]

In slightly happier news, Villa beat Chelsea. They seem to be starting this season where they left of last.
Probably be manager hunting soon.

 

[daneoni]

Chelsea literally can't buy a win.
Liverpool look to be the early contenders against City
Injuries piling up for Arsenal. And again the good old kill the match whilst you're on top springs to mind. Spurs deserving of their point, And will be more confident from that result.
Brighton keep marching.

 

[Sal09]

Arsenal need a striker. A ruthless one who can finish. Jesus had so many chances but …

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Spurs fans will be happier with the result, but in reality I don’t think either club’s fortunes this season will hinge on this match. But they could find them selves direct competitors for league position come the end of the season.

As for Chelsea, LOL. But if they fire Pochettino they’re not addressing the issues, that will just be a knee jerk performative move by ownership that doesn’t know what it is doing. They need to stop randomly acquiring players and allow the manager time to work and create something coherent. But of course, Chelsea don’t operate that way.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Spurs fans will be happier with the result, but in reality I don’t think either club’s fortunes this season will hinge on this match. But they could find them selves direct competitors for league position come the end of the season.

As for Chelsea, LOL. But if they fire Pochettino they’re not addressing the issues, that will just be a knee jerk performative move by ownership that doesn’t know what it is doing. They need to stop randomly acquiring players and allow the manager time to work and create something coherent. But of course, Chelsea don’t operate that way.

I think City fans will be happier with the North London derby result.
They may only be two points ahead after 6 games, but at the current ratio that will see them 12 points clear by the end of the season.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Arsenal need a striker. A ruthless one who can finish. Jesus had so many chances but …

No.

Arsenal need to rediscover how to play as a team.

Jesus had chances, - and he is far too prodigal and profligate with them, agreed, - but, others were also at fault, for what I consider a poor enough performance, and, in truth, we haven't been as good as we should have been - as confident, as coherent - as a team, since the start of the season.

With the exception of the PSV Eindhoven game, (and possibly, the Community Shield), Arsenal haven't had a wholly confident game - one where they "clicked" coherently and flawlessly as a unit - and performed properly as a team - since the start of the season.

Spurs shouldn't have been allowed to score - and twice at that - when we are playing at home. They are not brilliant (yes, they are improving), we should have been able to hold them, contain them, and prevent them form scoring.

Falling asleep, and lapses of concentration, and faffing about, are not good enough at this level.

Rice was a terrific buy, but I don't feel confident - in fact, my heart sinks - whenever Havertz takes to the pitch; his judgment is poor, and not just poor, but consistently poor, (he seems to be only able to play calmly, with composure, with confidence, - in other words, he seems to be only able to play well, - when we are ahead by a comfortable margin, which makes him a luxury player, and, even then, I'm not sure that I trust his judgment, his decision making on the pitch), and should not be allowed near an opponent's goal-keeping area for he will either miss, - by a country mile - or take the wrong option.

While Martin Odegaard is brilliant, paradoxically, I think we miss the physical and mental strength of Granit Xhaka, whose role in last year's superb performance (over the entire season) was often under-rated.

At this rate, the best I would expect from Arsenal is a top four finish.

Unless there is dramatic improvement, I cannot see them challenging City (who already lead them by four points, this early in the season), for the title, let alone challenging seriously for second place, which was theirs on merit last season.

 

[Apple fanboy]

No.

Arsenal need to rediscover how to play as a team.

Jesus had chances, - and he is far too profligate with htem, agreed, - but, others were also at fault, for what I consider a poor enough performance, and, in truth, we haven't been as good as we should have been - as confident, as coherent - as a team, since the start of the season.

With the exception of the PSV Eindhoven game, (and possibly, the Community Shield), Arsenal haven't had a wholly confident game - one where they "clicked" coherently and flawlessly as a unit - and performed properly as a team - since the start of the season.

Spurs shouldn't have been allowed to score - and twice at that - when we are playing at home. They are not brilliant (yes, they are improving), we should have been able to hold them, contain them, and prevent them form scoring.

Falling asleep, and lapses of concentration, and faffing about, are not good enough at this level.

Rice was a terrific buy, but I don't feel confident - in fact, my heart sinks - whenever Havertz takes to the pitch; his judgment is poor, and not just poor, but consistently poor, (he seems to be only able to play calmly, with composure, with confidence, - in other words, he seems to be only able to play well, - when we are ahead by a comfortable margin, which makes him a luxury player, and, even then, I'm not sure that I trust his judgment, his decision making on the pitch), and should not be allowed near an opponent's goal-keeping area for he will either miss, - by a country mile - or take the wrong option.

While Martin Odegaard is brilliant, paradoxically, I think we miss the physical and mental strength of Granit Xhaka, whose role in last year's superb performance (over the entire season) was often under-rated.

At this rate, the best I would expect from Arsenal is a top four finish.

Unless there is dramatic improvement, I cannot see them challenging City (who already lead them by four points, this early in the season), for the title, let alone challenging seriously for second place, which was theirs on merit last season.

I think you’ll still be there or there abouts for the second spot.
I’d love Brighton to continue their top four form, but think that is unlikely.
Chelsea clearly won’t be pushing for it. Not seeing Man Utd up there come May either.
Spurs may do better than than last year, but more than likely will do a Spurs.
So it will come down to who goes further in Europe between you and Liverpool for the number two spot me thinks. Injuries and suspensions will most likely play their part too.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I think City fans will be happier with the North London derby result.
They may only be two points ahead after 6 games, but at the current ratio that will see them 12 points clear by the end of the season.

I don’t think Man City care what anyone else is doing. All they need to do is put in a 6/10 performance every week and they’ll still walk the league.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I don’t think Man City care what anyone else is doing. All they need to do is put in a 6/10 performance every week and they’ll still walk the league.

Unfortunately, this strikes me as all too true.

What that also means is that each and every challenging (or chasing) team needs to be playing at a level of almost excellence - and worse, and more difficult - sustained and consistent excellence - every week in order to merely match them, let alone surpass them, and that is not something that we are seeing this season.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Newcastle demolish Sheffield United 0-8.
I bet all the home fans were gone before the final whistle!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Newcastle demolish Sheffield United 0-8.
I bet all the home fans were gone before the final whistle!

Ouch.

Demolish is a good verb in that context.

 

[Lioness~]

News have been intense in Sweden after what we considered a 'cheap' penalty in the last minute between Sweden - Spain in Nations Leauge.

Why are not VAR obligatory in Women's football as well as it is in Men's Football?
Incredible, but I wasn't even aware of that.

That would have removed all speculations, so I guess the Men who rules in FIFA enjoy these kinds of incidents.

 

[laptech]

News have been intense in Sweden after what we considered a 'cheap' penalty in the last minute between Sweden - Spain in Nations Leauge.

Why are not VAR obligatory in Women's football as well as it is in Men's Football?
Incredible, but I wasn't even aware of that.

That would have removed all speculations, so I guess the Men who rules in FIFA enjoy these kinds of incidents.

VAR is not obligatory in men's football, only in the top divisions and even still it is at the discretion of those who run the leagues wo can decide if it is used or not. It is also the decision of those that run cup competitions or other competitions if VAR is used or not.

This article explains it very well.

The never-ending controversy of VAR: when and where should it be used?

T370YG VAR checks for the possible red card incident in first half during the FA Cup Semi Final match between Brighton & Hove Albion and Manchester City at Wembley Stadium . 6 April 2019 Editorial use only. No merchandising. For Football images FA and Premier League restrictions apply inc. no in

sportsbyte.sunderland.ac.uk

It explains that the cost to run VAR comes to approx. £1.2million a year. There is no way every club can afford that, not even in the women's game. £1.2 million a year to run VAR would wipe out a lot of football clubs and nearly most of the women's club's because they just do not make enough money every year.

 

[Apple fanboy]

VAR is not obligatory in men's football, only in the top divisions and even still it is at the discretion of those who run the leagues wo can decide if it is used or not. It is also the decision of those that run cup competitions or other competitions if VAR is used or not.

This article explains it very well.

The never-ending controversy of VAR: when and where should it be used?

T370YG VAR checks for the possible red card incident in first half during the FA Cup Semi Final match between Brighton & Hove Albion and Manchester City at Wembley Stadium . 6 April 2019 Editorial use only. No merchandising. For Football images FA and Premier League restrictions apply inc. no in

sportsbyte.sunderland.ac.uk

It explains that the cost to run VAR comes to approx. £1.2million a year. There is no way every club can afford that, not even in the women's game. £1.2 million a year to run VAR would wipe out a lot of football clubs and nearly most of the women's club's because they just do not make enough money every year.

To be honest I’d not have a problem if they dropped VAR in the men’s game. We have no less mistakes or controversy since it was introduced. It just breaks up play.

 

[laptech]

To be honest I’d not have a problem if they dropped VAR in the men’s game. We have no less mistakes or controversy since it was introduced. It just breaks up play.

But what about all the decisions that would not be made if there was no VAR, basically going back to the ways it used to be. Many many decisions got missed because the ref didn't see them, goals not given, penalties not given, fouls not given and then there was the issue of the ref making mistakes because they could not clearly see the incident properly and thus goals given when they shouldn't have been, penalties given when they shouldn't have been, fouls given when they shouldn't have been and red cards given when they shouldn't have been.

For decades fan's had been complaining of injustices and they finally got their wish with VAR and now fan's are complaining about VAR because it interrupts the flow of the game. Fans cannot have it both ways.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

But what about all the decisions that would not be made if there was no VAR, basically going back to the ways it used to be. Many many decisions got missed because the ref didn't see them, goals not given, penalties not given, fouls not given and then there was the issue of the ref making mistakes because they could not clearly see the incident properly and thus goals given when they shouldn't have been, penalties given when they shouldn't have been, fouls given when they shouldn't have been and red cards given when they shouldn't have been.

For decades fan's had been complaining of injustices and they finally got their wish with VAR and now fan's are complaining about VAR because it interrupts the flow of the game. Fans cannot have it both ways.

The ‘problems’ lie as much with the laws of the game as with refereeing.

Just another example our our modern and doomed notion that technology can solve social or cultural issues.

VAR has caused as many problems as it has solved. And the VAR-less ‘way it used to be’ is, as you yourself pointed out, the ‘way it still is now’ for most football outside the elite. So in addition to its shortcomings it has created a double standard in how the laws of the game are applied.

I accept VAR as here to stay but it is not the solution people claimed it would be. It wasn’t broke, but we ‘fixed’ it anyway.

 

[Apple fanboy]

But what about all the decisions that would not be made if there was no VAR, basically going back to the ways it used to be. Many many decisions got missed because the ref didn't see them, goals not given, penalties not given, fouls not given and then there was the issue of the ref making mistakes because they could not clearly see the incident properly and thus goals given when they shouldn't have been, penalties given when they shouldn't have been, fouls given when they shouldn't have been and red cards given when they shouldn't have been.

For decades fan's had been complaining of injustices and they finally got their wish with VAR and now fan's are complaining about VAR because it interrupts the flow of the game. Fans cannot have it both ways.

I never asked for VAR. I don’t know many who did.
The promise of VAR was controversial decisions would disappear. But that simply hasn’t been the case.

I’d rather just go with the decisions equal themselves out over the season like we used to for the past 100 years or so.

 

[Apple fanboy]

The ‘problems’ lie as much with the laws of the game as with refereeing.

Just another example our our modern and doomed notion that technology can solve social or cultural issues.

VAR has caused as many problems as it has solved. And the VAR-less ‘way it used to be’ is, as you yourself pointed out, the ‘way it still is now’ for most football outside the elite. So in addition to its shortcomings it has created a double standard in how the laws of the game are applied.

I accept VAR as here to stay but it is not the solution people claimed it would be. It wasn’t broke, but we ‘fixed’ it anyway.

I’d say the same for the offside rule. It used to be much clearer and easier for referees, players and fans alike.

 

[laptech]

I never asked for VAR. I don’t know many who did.
The promise of VAR was controversial decisions would disappear. But that simply hasn’t been the case.

I’d rather just go with the decisions equal themselves out over the season like we used to for the past 100 years or so.

I believe it was two incidents that forced IFAB's (body that defines the rules of the game) hand into implementing VAR into the game of football. The main one was the Lampard disallowed goal in the 2010 world cup game against Germany. Football replays showed the ball had clearly crossed the line but the goal was not given ultimately affecting the output of the game and the 2010 World Cup playoff game between France and Ireland with Henry's handball leading to a goal that helped knock out Ireland.

Both those incidents caused massive outrage not only with the fans of both countries affected but many neutral fans as well who were demanding that some kind of video replay be introduced because TV stations were able to show instant replays of the incidents which everyone with a TV could see but not the one person that mattered the most, the referee. So calls were made to have some kind of video replay assistant be introduced.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I’d say the same for the offside rule. It used to be much clearer and easier for referees, players and fans alike.

I completely agree that VAR has made offsides more nebulous - though I wouldn't say it was clearer in the past. I think the offside law is actually an impossible law as written, and VAR just exposed the impossibility of properly enforcing it. If the purpose of the law is prevent an attacker from gaining an advantage, but the enforcement involves meaninglessly precise measurements of whether any part of a player's physical body is just barely ahead of the last little part of the defender's physical body, then we've lost sight of the point of the law.

So it's really two problems: 1) A law that is good in principle but practically unenforceable 2) Technological smoke-and-mirrors enforcement approach that is ultimately nonsensical with respect to the intent of the law.

I believe it was two incidents that forced IFAB's (body that defines the rules of the game) hand into implementing VAR into the game of football. The main one was the Lampard disallowed goal in the 2010 world cup game against Germany. Football replays showed the ball had clearly crossed the line but the goal was not given ultimately affecting the output of the game and the 2010 World Cup playoff game between France and Ireland with Henry's handball leading to a goal that helped knock out Ireland.

Both those incidents caused massive outrage not only with the fans of both countries affected but many neutral fans as well who were demanding that some kind of video replay be introduced because TV stations were able to show instant replays of the incidents which everyone with a TV could see but not the one person that mattered the most, the referee. So calls were made to have some kind of video replay assistant be introduced.

Goal line technology and VAR are two different things. The former is much simpler and more reliable and I have no problem with it. But VAR is just refs off the pitch looking at replays. Lampard's disallowed goal may have contributed to the implementation of goal line technology, but it should not have led to VAR per se.

[Edit: goal line technology is unproblematic because it merely detects a physical reality - has the center of the ball crossed the goal line. But enforcing the offside law considers both a physical reality (player's body position in relation to the second last opposing player) AND ALSO the offending player's intentions - deliberately interfering or becoming involved in play - and the latter is often impossible to determine with certainly]

I would have less problem with VAR if we could hear the ref's discussions (like in rugby) so we could understand their decision-making process, or if replays had to be reviewed at full-speed to avoid over-analyzing minute details.

There is a point at which precision of measurement or saturation of refs with more information or replays ceases to make the game fairer and just makes it more incomprehensible. Especially (sorry to bring it up again) when all the governing organizations are corrupt and incompetent anyway.

Reffing, like governance, is a social problem, not a technical problem. The structure of the game is what causes complaints, not the technology surrounding it. If we could just accept that the game is reffed by humans who are occasionally wrong or interpret the laws differently, everything would be fine.

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

Watching a lot of Football League games now that Saints are in the Championship and I have to say - I have been very much conditioned to expect VAR to rule on things like fouls and offsides building up to goals etc.
It is pretty interesting how many things the officials do miss, that it's easy to see from the comfort of an armchair.
I never thought I would miss VAR, but on the odd occasion, I actually do.

 

[laptech]

I believe the infamous Suarez shoulder bite was picked up by VAR but not the ref. Yes the player went over to the ref to show he had been bitten but I believe VAR picked it up first, the ref looked at the monitor and then sent Suarez off. VAR has proven to not be perfect but do we really want football to go back to the way it was? very important decisions being missed which can have a serious impact on the outcome of a game. Do we really want to go back to that? Me personally, nope, I would rather put up with what we have at the moment with VAR than go back to how things were.

Oh and the reason I mentioned Lampard's goal as one of the incidents that forced the implementation of VAR is because whist his disallowed goal was more to do with goal line technology, it forced those high up to talk about introducing some kind of video assistance because TV stations showing the game live put up replays of the disallowed goal showing it from various camera angles. This TV replays in my opinion gave those high up the idea of video assistance because if TV camera's can show such incidents why can't there be an official implementation of it? hence the years of talks about introducing video assistance into the game.

 

[mrsmith1]

Pretty pleased with how my team, Nottingham Forest, performed at Manchester City. 2-0 down after 14 minute, we could have just collapsed like we did last season (we lost 6-0 in the corresponding fixture) but we held on and actually made pushed them a lot towards the end. Definitely progressing.