The 2023-2024 Football Thread

[Lord Blackadder]

Nah. Rugby is a slow, boring game without an ounce of the passion that football has. Rugby stops every 30 seconds for some reason or other. VAR is good, it has been significantly beneficial to thegame. The problem isn't VAR, it's those who are supposed to be paying attention, yet too often don't.

Nah. That's NFL. Rugby is a different game but I don't expect football and rugby fans to 100% overlap though. TMOs aren't slower than VAR in my experience, but they are much more transparent. We get to see and hear what is happening. That's better for both refs and fans in my opinion.

As for your comment on VAR though - VAR is merely a set of protocols for people sitting in front of monitors making calls. So you can't separate VAR from the people. If people are making bad VAR calls, we have a problem with VAR. Maybe it's an issue of recruitment or training of refs. Maybe it's a problem with the VAR review process. Maybe it was a relatively isolated case of inattention. But those are all part of how VAR functions (or fails to).

 

[Abdichoudxyz]

Nah. That's NFL. Rugby is a different game

Same thing in my view. Loads of big bulky blokes running round after an egg-shaped object. Nah; we don't want footie slowed down anymore, VAR is bad enough currently as it is.

As for your comment on VAR though - VAR is merely a set of protocols for people sitting in front of monitors making calls

Which there is no real problem with, normally, if those protocols are adhered to. The problem is the individual human element. VAR delivers something like 94% accuracy, whereas before VAR that figure was 82%. But in this case, it was a failure of the entire system of officiating, not just some of the VAR operatives.

Jota's red card has been ruled incorrect by the Premier league. This one's going to rumble on and on...

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Same thing in my view. Loads of big bulky blokes running round after an egg-shaped object. Nah; we don't want footie slowed down anymore, VAR is bad enough currently as it is.

That battle was lost, in my opinion, when VAR was introduced. We are now on an irrevocable path to more stoppages - timeouts, more subs, longer VAR because people will demand further improvements in 'accuracy.' No, I'm afraid it's too late now.

Which there is no real problem with, normally, if those protocols are adhered to. The problem is the individual human element. VAR delivers something like 94% accuracy, whereas before VAR that figure was 82%. But in this case, it was a failure of the entire system of officiating, not just some of the VAR operatives.

I think 'accuracy' is an illusion, because VAR's introduction has already caused changes to how the laws of the game are enforced, so it's already an apples to oranges comparison. The purpose of VAR is to eliminate subjectivity from the enforcement of the laws, but subjectivity is built into the laws. So while some genuine improvements are possible with VAR, I still argue that it creates more problems than it solves.

Jota's red card has been ruled incorrect by the Premier league. This one's going to rumble on and on...

I'm already bored of it, and I am a Liverpool supporter.

 

[laptech]

Just read an article about Southgate picking players for England's upcoming game with Australia and he has again picked Maguire who the article pointed out has only played 26 mins of premier league football. Surely England have another player who can play in that position and who plays regularly for their club or are we supposed to believe that Maguire is the ONLY English player who can play in that position. There has to be someone else, there has to be.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Just read an article about Southgate picking players for England's upcoming game with Australia and he has again picked Maguire who the article pointed out has only played 26 mins of premier league football. Surely England have another player who can play in that position and who plays regularly for their club or are we supposed to believe that Maguire is the ONLY English player who can play in that position. There has to be someone else, there has to be.

If you are an English central defender you must be thinking to yourself what do I need to do to get a game!

 

[Lord Blackadder]

If you are an English central defender you must be thinking to yourself what do I need to do to get a game!

Be Harry Maguire.

 

[Apple fanboy]

That battle was lost, in my opinion, when VAR was introduced. We are now on an irrevocable path to more stoppages - timeouts, more subs, longer VAR because people will demand further improvements in 'accuracy.' No, I'm afraid it's too late now.



I think 'accuracy' is an illusion, because VAR's introduction has already caused changes to how the laws of the game are enforced, so it's already an apples to oranges comparison. The purpose of VAR is to eliminate subjectivity from the enforcement of the laws, but subjectivity is built into the laws. So while some genuine improvements are possible with VAR, I still argue that it creates more problems than it solves.



I'm already bored of it, and I am a Liverpool supporter.

Likewise!
The funny thing is I hate the current offside rule more than VAR.

Letting the play finish before calling the offside is a stupid rule. What was wrong with an immediate flag from the linesman? What’s going to happen if a player gets injured during that phase of play. Or commits a foul and is sent off?
As for not interfering with play, do me a favour. I always played as a defender. A striker not in possession in front of goal IS going to interfere with play. The defender has to make a decision based on where the ball is and the offside player.
If it was okay for the first 100 years why do we need to change the beautiful game?

 

[Apple fanboy]

Be Harry Maguire.

I hear he’s injured. He’s over used his gluteus maximus on the suns bench!

 

[Apple fanboy]

Another record broken.

Come on you Irons! Back to back European cups please!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Another record broken.
View attachment 2289492
Come on you Irons! Back to back European cups please!

Congrats, a very fine achievement, and the club is doing well, at the moment.

There is no talk of sacking Moyes, these days, is there?

 

[Apple fanboy]

Congrats, a very fine achievement, and the club is doing well, at the moment.

There is no talk of sacking Moyes, these days, is there?

Please no! He’s doing a great job. Just hope it continues for our next game against Newcastle!
Also pleased to see Bowen in the England squad.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Please no! He’s doing a great job. Just hope it continues for our next game against Newcastle!
Also pleased to see Bowen in the England squad.

That was my point.

My question was rhetorical: Firstly, I agree, I think that he is doing an excellent job, but secondly, I remember some of the very unfair criticism ("dinosaur" comes to mind) that was hurled his way last season, because he wasn't a stylish, fashionable, (in method and appearance) manager.

I should have been clearer when expressing myself: What I meant to say (write?) was that I am willing to wager that there is little criticism of him this year, and rightly so.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Likewise!
The funny thing is I hate the current offside rule more than VAR.

I think I hate the way they enforce the handball rule even more. We've gotten to the point that if you are a defender and have two arms, you will be punished for nothing. 'Ball to hand' no longer exists.

Luis Suarez used to deliberately flick the ball into defenders' arms when he played for Liverpool, and won a couple penalties that way. Right now, the way the rule is enforced, that will win you a penalty 80% of the time...watch this space....

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

Please no! He’s doing a great job. Just hope it continues for our next game against Newcastle!
Also pleased to see Bowen in the England squad.

Begs the question though - what does JWP need to do to get in the squad? He's at a club where players are now being considered for the England setup - he's playing great football. He's more than just a dead-ball specialist. He's proven that.
I know he's just one of many players that must be asking themselves the same thing though.

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

Fabulous article highlighting the dreadful practices of FIFA (yet again):

The sports world was justifiably furious with FIFA's nonsensical plans for the 2030 and 2034 World Cup

FIFA always finds a way to get worse.

ftw.usatoday.com

TLDR; On Wednesday, the soccer’s governing body announced an unprecedented plan for the 2030 World Cup. The first three games will be held in the South American nations of Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay to celebrate 100 years of the tournament. Then, those three nations and their opponents will travel across the Atlantic to play the rest of the tournament in Spain, Portugal and Morocco.

So, we’re now looking at a 48-team tournament being played in six countries and three continents.

...there’s a reason for this tricontinental tournament, and it’s classic FIFA corruption at work. By including three CONMEBOL nations along with UEFA and CAF in 2030, FIFA can say that South America, Europe and Africa used their turns in the hosting rotation. That brings 2034’s turn back to Asia where Saudi Arabia — and its appalling human rights record — is essentially guaranteed hosting rights as Asia’s entire confederation will unite behind a Saudi bid.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I think I hate the way they enforce the handball rule even more. We've gotten to the point that if you are a defender and have two arms, you will be punished for nothing. 'Ball to hand' no longer exists.

Luis Suarez used to deliberately flick the ball into defenders' arms when he played for Liverpool, and won a couple penalties that way. Right now, the way the rule is enforced, that will win you a penalty 80% of the time...watch this space....

Oh absolutely. Another stupid rule they’ve come up with.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Begs the question though - what does JWP need to do to get in the squad? He's at a club where players are now being considered for the England setup - he's playing great football. He's more than just a dead-ball specialist. He's proven that.
I know he's just one of many players that must be asking themselves the same thing though.

Yes I thought he deserved a squad place at least. Some players can’t do anything to get picked. Others can’t do anything to get dropped!

 

[laptech]

Fabulous article highlighting the dreadful practices of FIFA (yet again):

The sports world was justifiably furious with FIFA's nonsensical plans for the 2030 and 2034 World Cup

FIFA always finds a way to get worse.

ftw.usatoday.com

TLDR; On Wednesday, the soccer’s governing body announced an unprecedented plan for the 2030 World Cup. The first three games will be held in the South American nations of Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay to celebrate 100 years of the tournament. Then, those three nations and their opponents will travel across the Atlantic to play the rest of the tournament in Spain, Portugal and Morocco.

So, we’re now looking at a 48-team tournament being played in six countries and three continents.

...there’s a reason for this tricontinental tournament, and it’s classic FIFA corruption at work. By including three CONMEBOL nations along with UEFA and CAF in 2030, FIFA can say that South America, Europe and Africa used their turns in the hosting rotation. That brings 2034’s turn back to Asia where Saudi Arabia — and its appalling human rights record — is essentially guaranteed hosting rights as Asia’s entire confederation will unite behind a Saudi bid.

I would hope a reporter has the guts to put that theory to FIFA to get their response because if FIFA deny it and the 2034 World Cup is awarded to Saudi Arabia, people would then be able to say that FIFA fixed the hosting rights because people would be able to say '10 years ago it was put to FIFA that the 2030 tournament was devised in such a way that an Asian country would be guaranteed hosting rights of the 2034 World Cup due to FIFA policy of rotation but FIFA denied this'. This is why a reporter needs to put that theory to FIFA so there is record of FIFA's response.

 

[Abdichoudxyz]

That battle was lost, in my opinion, when VAR was introduced. We are now on an irrevocable path to more stoppages - timeouts, more subs, longer VAR because people will demand further improvements in 'accuracy.' No, I'm afraid it's too late now.

I disagree. Part of the issue with VAR has been the delays; in an attempt to reduce those, operatives are now rushing things through, obviously. So a middle ground has to be found. The technology will only improve, and it's probably only a matter of time before the human operators are replaced by AI. Becaseu even a pocket caluculator could have seen that that goal was onside...

I think 'accuracy' is an illusion, because VAR's introduction has already caused changes to how the laws of the game are enforced, so it's already an apples to oranges comparison. The purpose of VAR is to eliminate subjectivity from the enforcement of the laws, but subjectivity is built into the laws. So while some genuine improvements are possible with VAR, I still argue that it creates more problems than it solves.

Again, I disagree. The stats show an improvement in reducing errors. Ergo; it is more accurate. As for subjectivity; you're never going to eliminate that from human sport.

The funny thing is I hate the current offside rule more than VAR.

Letting the play finish before calling the offside is a stupid rule. What was wrong with an immediate flag from the linesman? What’s going to happen if a player gets injured during that phase of play. Or commits a foul and is sent off?
As for not interfering with play, do me a favour. I always played as a defender. A striker not in possession in front of goal IS going to interfere with play. The defender has to make a decision based on where the ball is and the offside player.
If it was okay for the first 100 years why do we need to change the beautiful game?

Nah; the game flows much better since the 'not interfering with play' rule. Of course, this itself is open to interpretation and subjectivity, but if a player is offside but miles from the action, or down injured/dead, then play should continue.

I think I hate the way they enforce the handball rule even more. We've gotten to the point that if you are a defender and have two arms, you will be punished for nothing. 'Ball to hand' no longer exists.

Luis Suarez used to deliberately flick the ball into defenders' arms when he played for Liverpool, and won a couple penalties that way. Right now, the way the rule is enforced, that will win you a penalty 80% of the time...watch this space....

Defenders are already learning to put their hands behind their backs when defending against possible shots in the penalty area. This is good; it avoids the 'accidental handball' excuse that can and has been used many, many times. And 'ball to hand' does still exist; genuinely accidental handball is still not penalised elsewhere on the pitch.

 

[Abdichoudxyz]

If it was okay for the first 100 years why do we need to change the beautiful game?

Football is a lot faster, more skilfull and requires greater agility and fitness than 100 years ago. It's a very different game. So the rules have to adapt to accommodate this.

 

[laptech]

Looks like United dodged a bullet with Pogba. He leaves on a free in July last year and this year has failed a drug test with both his A and B samples failing which means he could be due a 4 year ban from the game.

 

[laptech]

I disagree. Part of the issue with VAR has been the delays; in an attempt to reduce those, operatives are now rushing things through, obviously. So a middle ground has to be found. The technology will only improve, and it's probably only a matter of time before the human operators are replaced by AI. Becaseu even a pocket caluculator could have seen that that goal was onside...


Again, I disagree. The stats show an improvement in reducing errors. Ergo; it is more accurate. As for subjectivity; you're never going to eliminate that from human sport.


Nah; the game flows much better since the 'not interfering with play' rule. Of course, this itself is open to interpretation and subjectivity, but if a player is offside but miles from the action, or down injured/dead, then play should continue.


Defenders are already learning to put their hands behind their backs when defending against possible shots in the penalty area. This is good; it avoids the 'accidental handball' excuse that can and has been used many, many times. And 'ball to hand' does still exist; genuinely accidental handball is still not penalised elsewhere on the pitch.

Players were told by their coaching staff to look for ways to get penalties and to get players sent off. Over the years players have let it slip through their mouths when talking about football that such things have gone one. How many times have we heard Neville go on about tackles in the penalty area saying the player should have gone down to get a penalty rather than stay on their feet. Over the years I've heard Gerrard, Lampard, Neville, Shearer all say similar things. Coaches are teaching players how to win decisions by fair or foul and in the past players have got away it but VAR has now put a stop to it or is at least trying to.

 

[Abdichoudxyz]

Players were told by their coaching staff to look for ways to get penalties and to get players sent off. Over the years players have let it slip through their mouths when talking about football that such things have gone one. How many times have we heard Neville go on about tackles in the penalty area saying the player should have gone down to get a penalty rather than stay on their feet. Over the years I've heard Gerrard, Lampard, Neville, Shearer all say similar things. Coaches are teaching players how to win decisions by fair or foul and in the past players have got away it but VAR has now put a stop to it or is at least trying to.

VAR is also catching the divers, yes.

Apart from last Saturday at White Hart Lane...

 

[Abdichoudxyz]

Looks like United dodged a bullet with Pogba. He leaves on a free in July last year and this year has failed a drug test with both his A and B samples failing which means he could be due a 4 year ban from the game.

I wouldn't say splurging £90 million on him and having to put up with him for six years was 'dodging a bullet'. 🤣

 

[laptech]

I wouldn't say splurging £90 million on him and having to put up with him for six years was 'dodging a bullet'. 🤣

I would because he had the potential to be at United until he retired but things never turned out that way.