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The 2023-2024 Football Thread
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Well, Spurs are ahead of us on goal difference, but, to me, the main thing is that we have now defeated Manchester City in the Premier League (having already defeated them in the Charity Shield, which most people don't rate as a serious engagement, but, for us, I suspect that it was psychologically important to show that we could defeat them).
Anyway, a happy Gunner here (Rice was superb), and best of all, is that we do not seem to have added (further) to our tally of players suffering from injuries.
Funnily enough I had a chat with my Arsenal supporting friend this evening. He was pretty happy to!
Yes, I can well imagine.
Although, at the outset, I would have been content with a draw, as the match went on, I found myself longing for what seemed to have been an unlikely win.
The thing is, we actually earned the points and also ensured that City had few clear chances.
I know what you mean about starting out thinking a draw will do, but then thinking it needs to be a win!
Of course in our match Newcastle really should have been down to 10 men. In which case a win would have been much more likely for us.
That said Moyes isn't calling for a replay or whatever. Just chalks it up to whatever and move on.
Two deflections and two defeats.
Kovacic remaining on the pitch is another testament to the state of refereeing in this country
Wasn't the greatest game to be fair but i guess it was a decent tactical battle.
With Arsenal winning, the narrative is now Haaland is out of form. And City are human and not at it. Then throw in all sorts of Nostradamus predictions regarding the title race.
Its a good win for Arsenal's confidence. But since we're still only at Gameweek 8, i doubt it has any real bearing on the title race.
One thing is clear though, Rodri is the best player in the world in his position. And the ONE player City cannot do without despite their depth.
That position has been key to their successes. It was Yaya Toure, then Fernandinho, and now Rodri. In Barca it was Busquets. Its the cornerstone position of Pep's football.
Kovacic remaining on the pitch is another testament to the state of refereeing in this country
Wasn't the greatest game to be fair but i guess it was a decent tactical battle.
With Arsenal winning, the narrative is now Haaland is out of form. And City are human and not at it. Then throw in all sorts of Nostradamus predictions regarding the title race.
Its a good win for Arsenal's confidence. But since we're still only at Gameweek 8, i doubt it has any real bearing on the title race.
One thing is clear though, Rodri is the best player in the world in his position. And the ONE player City cannot do without despite their depth.
That position has been key to their successes. It was Yaya Toure, then Fernandinho, and now Rodri. In Barca it was Busquets. Its the cornerstone position of Pep's football.
Michael Cox just did a piece in the Athletic about how much the head to head results between the premier league champions and runners up actually matter. The notes that since 1992 the league champions have only done the double over the runners up on six occasions.
The most interesting conclusion I draw from his data is that the head to head results matter less than how badly you can beat up on the rest of the league. This is a real indicator of the unequal state of premier league football.
The most interesting conclusion I draw from his data is that the head to head results matter less than how badly you can beat up on the rest of the league. This is a real indicator of the unequal state of premier league football.
Sometimes, yes, individual players (and not always strikers, contrary to popular opinion) do play an outsize role in the success of their teams, and their absence can be key.
Last season, Saliba's absence (through injury) had an enormous impact on the rest of our season and on our title challenge.
Everyone (or, rather, many commentators had voiced this view) that the earlier absence of Gabriel Jesus (through injury) would hurt us, - in fact, it didn't have as much of an effect on us as had been assumed, or not to the degree that it derailed our challenge; however, the loss of Saliba, to my mind, was crucial to the collapse of our title challenge.
Likewise, the loss (again, through injury) of Virgil van Dijk was - to my mind - absolutely crucial to Liverpool's inability to defend their title a few years ago.
2nd league loss in a row for City, people will be asking for Pep to be sacked lol (kidding).
Remember Liverpool's excellent season where they went down to the wire chasing 4 trophies? The following season was disastrous. Could City be heading for the same after their treble win?
Remember Liverpool's excellent season where they went down to the wire chasing 4 trophies? The following season was disastrous. Could City be heading for the same after their treble win?
No. They are just missing Rodri and KDB. I think you’ll find they will (sadly) still be at the top or their abouts come May.
🤣 That's because he won't ever be chasing the league title...
Liverpool beat City in the CS last season, then again at Anfield in the league, and look what happened...
Arsenal are good, but not great yet. Their defeat by Lens in the CL was quite telling. Those are exactly the sort of games they need to be winning. It wasn't Real Madrid, or Bayern Munich, or Barcelona; it was Lens. Beware of overconfidence having narrowly beaten an off-form City.
By the same logic. Arsenal losing to Lens isn't the end of the world either. Even more so having subsequently gotten 3pts from City.
Like Klopp says. Don't bother looking at the table until after Gameweek 10.
Of course. But an early statement in the CL is very important. Now, the other teams int he group can see Arsenal are potentially vulnerable, and that just means harder and more draining games. Managing the CL group stages is vital to league consistency too. You need everyone sharp and focussed.
I think Arsenal will do ok, but fall short come the Spring. I think Spurs have enjoyed a fair chunk of good luck, and could do ok. Liverpool are looking far more like their old selves, although still some way short of even the teams that lost the title by a point. What they do have, is a lot of young talent. Players like Quansah, Bajcetic, Connor Bradley, Tyler Morton and Ben Doak are all coming up through the academy, which is very encouraging. Add in Harvey Elliot, MacAllister and Curtis Jones already regulars in the first team, and the future is bright for Liverpool.
There is no danger whatsoever of over-confidence, trust me.
However, beating an off-form City was exactly what was needed - defeating City in any form - was exactly was was needed in terms of (psychological) confidence for Arsenal so that they can challenge for trophies in domestic competitions; and remember, Arsenal have now defeated City twice this season.
In any case, I'm in agreement with @daneoni on this.
Actually, to be quite candid, qualifying (as the team is, in its current incarantion), the CL doesn't count (apart from exposure and income).
Thus, I disagree that "an early statement in the CL" is important; we haven't qualified for years for the CL, and are candidly, we not good enough to go the distance. Therefore, I would far prefer to see more domestic building, more buying, and - yes, some more trophies - first, before embarking on a serious campaign in the CL.
Remember, despite having been buttressed by vast resources, with incredible strength in depth in the actual team, it took Manchester City years - and several close attempts - before they were able to claim a CL title.
While I hope (from a financial perspective), that we qualify for the knock-out rounds, I also hope that we don't go much further, a respectable distance would suit me fine; we don't have the strength in depth in the team, nor the quality in depth to be able to deal with that, and hope for success domestically, as well.
Personally, I would far prefer an early exit from the CL (while ensuring that we place highly enough in the Premier League to ensure that qualify next season) than to incur a raft of serious injuries, or have exhausted players suffer from burn out too early in the season, as a result of a prolonged campaign in the CL, because this would have a negative impact on our position in the Premier League.
I think Newcastle had a CL hangover this week. It’s hard to play competitive games midweek and at the weekend with out a significant size and quality squad. Then keeping a large squad happy and motivated is another challenge.
Er, can we rewind to the end of last season? 🤣
See; it's the CL where teams gain valuable experience of playing against the top European sides. The further the run, the greater experience and subsequently, confidence gained. Th eld adage of 'oh well just the league to concentrate on' after you've been knoocked out of the cup competitions, doesn't ring true any more. Cup and European competitions are where different combinations and styles can be tried out, where new players can gain experience and confidence. So the CL is a lot more important than you think it is. It really does count.
No, there was no over-confidence, last season.
I always thought that we would have had to have been preternaturally fortunate to have claimed the title, - the margin for error these days (these seasons) is very narrow - and the injury to Saliba, a key player in a vital position - exposing the lack of strength in depth of the squad - did for us.
Wind back further, to the start of last season, and you would have seen that hardly a single serious commentator thought that Arsenal had a chance of a top four finish.
I did, - as I thought that the team was consistently improving, I thought we had a good chance of finishing fourth, or, perhaps, third, - but, until we led the table for most of the season, (no team has led for longer and not won) I never envisaged us actualy winning it, and we most certainly deserved second place.
I don't disagree on it (the CL) not counting.
My point is that we are nowhere nearly good enough to challenge seriously for a top spot in it, and I would prefer not to risk players becoming burned out - or worse, seriously injured, through the stress and strain of having to play an excessive number of games.
Above all, the idea of losing a player - in an inconsequential game in the CL - to serious injury, that would cost us our campaign in the PL - fills me with horror.
For, without securing a sufficiently high place in the PL, one doesn't qualify for a European position, unless one has actually won the competition, irrespective of how well one has played during the various stages, group stages, and knock out stages.
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Welcome to my world. Our success in Europe these last few seasons has definitely lost us positions in the PL.
No question.
The other thing about City having been "sub par" yesterday - having lost Rodri through suspension and KBD to injury - is that they could have been even more "sub-par" had Kovacic received a red card for either of his two filthy fouls.
He received a yellow card for a foul that ran close to dark orange, and nothing for a foul that could easily have been a red (and nobody could have complained) let alone a yellow (which it should have been and which would have led to his departure as that would have been a second yellow).
But, those are the breaks.
He received a yellow card for a foul that ran close to dark orange, and nothing for a foul that could easily have been a red (and nobody could have complained) let alone a yellow (which it should have been and which would have led to his departure as that would have been a second yellow).
But, those are the breaks.
I was watching this this morning…
Its not a bad summary… there is such a thing as being a selling club, but losing your CEO, Director of Football, manager and pretty much the entire first team to health concerns, scandals and transfers means it’s no surprise you suffer a disastrous start to the season… 14th with 5 points from 6 games played.
Its not a bad summary… there is such a thing as being a selling club, but losing your CEO, Director of Football, manager and pretty much the entire first team to health concerns, scandals and transfers means it’s no surprise you suffer a disastrous start to the season… 14th with 5 points from 6 games played.
The problems team such as Ajax face is when other clubs throw money at them when they want something and the powers that be at Ajax just let it happen time and time again.
Yes, but if he had gone people would say Arsenal only won because it was 10 v 11. If I were an Arsenal fan I would have been unhappy with the calls at the time, but in retrospect it adds more weight to the result.
I still think Man City are favorites for the title. A shock loss for Arsenal against some midtable side who Man City beat with a regulation 3-0 would wipe this result out. We could still have a 'title race,' and I hope we do rather than a Man City procession, but there is a lot of season left and squad depth has not yet begun to tell.
I am cautiously optimistic that Liverpool will improve on last season and finish 3rd or 4th. Man City and Arsenal still look set for the top two slots, but I am not sure who will round out the top four. Spurs have had an amazing start but I can't believe they will sustain it, and everyone from 4th down to Chelsea in 11th are potential candidates. West Ham, Brighton, and Newcastle have all managed good results against teams around them in the table.
Trust me, West Ham Wong be top four!
I see City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs taking those positions.
Hard to imagine United and Chelsea will continue to languish in mid table. I suspect one of them if not both to push for top six.
As for Brighton, Villa and ourselves with our smaller squads it will very much come down to who we can keep fit.
Spurs have a thin squad, so while they are flying high now, by March they could be short several key players and that would have a big impact on them.
Man Utd and Chelsea will finish higher than their current positions. You can play like crap all season but if you have a deep squad that give you a 6/10 even with lots of injuries you will overcome other teams with a better first XI but nobody behind that.