The 2023-2024 Football Thread

[daneoni]

As @Lord Blackadder alluded, Spurs have a very fragile squad. An injury to any of the current first 11 and they become hampered significantly. 'Cos then you have players like Skipp, Dyer, and Gil coming back in.
Heck Afcon and Asia cup will mean they lose Son and Bissouma. However, the lack of european distraction is a huge advantage. Since they have a week to prepare and players play less games.

Chelsea will/are already getting better under Poch. Once the injury crises improves they'll start getting points. There's an idea to what Poch is doing.

United i really fear for. Their main guns are far off-pace, and their captain is a moaner. And they've (on current form) downgraded keepers. Funny enough the denigrated players are the ones performing now. The dressing room doesn't look harmonious...scandal almost every season.
And ETH looks lost at times.

West Ham, Villa, and Brighton could easily finish in european places. Still think Newcastle can be one-dimensional and their first 11 from last season is still doing most of the heavy lifting.

Villa meanwhile look a real team with some depth too.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

United i really fear for. Their main guns are far off-pace, and their captain is a moaner. And they've (on current form) downgraded keepers. Funny enough the denigrated players are the ones performing now. The dressing room doesn't look harmonious...scandal almost every season.
And ETH looks lost at times.

Is Onana a flop, or was he brought into a team that are not suited to doing what he’s being asked to do? Man Utd are not used to playing with a keeper like him, and maybe ETH is trying to fit a round hole and Onana is a square peg. Sometimes this situation can gel with time. But this is one issue at the club among many. So maybe that time isn’t available.

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

Villa meanwhile look a real team with some depth too.

Crikey! That's not a phrase you see often!!

 

[laptech]

Is Onana a flop, or was he brought into a team that are not suited to doing what he’s being asked to do? Man Utd are not used to playing with a keeper like him, and maybe ETH is trying to fit a round hole and Onana is a square peg. Sometimes this situation can gel with time. But this is one issue at the club among many. So maybe that time isn’t available.

The fault could be with the United goalkeeping coaches because they may not know how to coach ball playing. Onana is a trained ball playing goalkeeper and thus it would be very difficult for him to move to a club that does not have any ball playing experienced goalkeeping coaches. How are they going to coach Onana and the defenders in the art of ball playing goalkeepers if the coaches themselves do not have that experience. Maybe the club do have the right experienced coaches and if they do then in my opinion it's a case of the defenders not learning quick enough how to function properly with a ball playing goalkeeper because it would be alien to them as De Gea was never one. Defenders need to be intune with their goalkeeper, they need to instinctively know how their goalkeeper is going to respond to any given situation, they cannot afford to sit back and wait to see what is going to happen. With De Gea the defenders had years of experience working with him so they knew how to react in an instant in any situation.

It will take time for Onana to adjust but we have seen with United that in the past they have had some excellent goalkeepers that excelled at their previous club but when they came to United they were a flop. Could Onana be another one?

 

[Abdichoudxyz]

It will take time for Onana to adjust but we have seen with United that in the past they have had some excellent goalkeepers that excelled at their previous club but when they came to United they were a flop. Could Onana be another one?

I do hope so. The demise of Man U is a joy to behold. 🤣

Onana was prone to massive errors before Utd signed him. Long may he play for Utd; it's providing much entertainment.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

The fault could be with the United goalkeeping coaches because they may not know how to coach ball playing.

The goalkeeping coaches may be a factor, I suppose, but Onana should already know how to play that way. The issue is fitting him into a team that plays that way. Man Utd's back four still seem uncomfortable receiving the ball in the places Onana is trying to play it.

In the Liverpool - Brighton match, both teams almost reveled in messing around with the ball in their own final third. There is a substantial risk inherent in this approach, but it is (ideally) traded for space an opportunities in the attack. So in order for the system to work, all 11 layers need to be ready to do their part to make the risk pay off. Rapid movement off the ball in transitional moments radically alters the shape of the team and generates space and attacking chances.

But if Onana passes the ball to a defender who doesn't want it and there are no players rushing to create overloads and outballs, his talent and style of play is wasted and he'll just look like an error-prone flop. And maybe he ultimately isn't suited to this level, but I still feel like the bigger problem is the team is not doing the things they need to do to make Onana effective. Some have also questioned his ability to claim out crosses and aerial balls in the box, which is a separate issue to keep an eye on.

 

[Silencio]

United's goalkeeping coach absolutely has to be a factor. Richard Hartis is still there, surviving the OGS and Rangnick regimes and enduring under ETH for some unknown reason. He didn't improve De Gea's ability to play the ball with his feet, and he hasn't improved Onana's shot-stopping technique. Clearly the guy is stealing a living and needs replacement with a coach who isn't such a dinosaur.

As for Onana himself, he's really not been helped by the chopping and changing in the backline that were necessitated by all the injuries, and United's back line and deeper midfielders are used to De Gea punting the ball aimlessly over their heads. It's going to take time for all to get on the same page. Still, I expect the coaches to work with Onana on being more technically sound at shot-stopping. Why has there been no improvement?

 

[daneoni]

Incredible mental health awareness ad by Norwich City

*Warning, may be distressing to some viewers*

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Incredible mental health awareness ad by Norwich City

*Warning, may be distressing to some viewers*

That is absolutely brilliant and very, very powerful.

And yes, incredible ad, and very well done to Norwich City.

Thank you for sharing the link.

 

[laptech]

Incredible mental health awareness ad by Norwich City

*Warning, may be distressing to some viewers*

An excellent video and so very true. I worked with a young guy for 6 months as part of a repair team. Was same age as me at the time. He came from Dudley in the West Midlands, had the thickest Black Country accent you'd ever heard. At break times and lunch times we'd chat about general everyday stuff, what was on the TV, what sports was going on (he liked Speedway track racing, there was a track in Wolverhampton he'd go to) and I would talk about Football, being in Shropshire at the time, Telford United and Shrewsbury were the team's I'd talk about. We'd occasionally go to the pub after work for a pint then back home (is what work mates did back in the day after a long hard day of work). Then one day, come into work, boss comes down to the group (8 of us in the repair group, 6 guys, two females) and boss tells us our work mate is dead, committed suicide. All of us in the group looked at each other stunned, not once had he given any of us any inclining that anything was wrong. He laughed with us, joked with us, always had a smile on his face, never appeared sad. The only social activity we had with him was going to the pub after work. We never intruded into any other our work mates lives. It was always work, a pint after work, a goodbye and see you at work next day.

Even to this day I still ask myself, just how much are we supposed to intrude into another persons personal life?

 

[Apple fanboy]

Incredible mental health awareness ad by Norwich City

*Warning, may be distressing to some viewers*

Thanks for posting this. As men we are crap at talking.

 

[Apple fanboy]

An excellent video and so very true. I worked with a young guy for 6 months as part of a repair team. Was same age as me at the time. He came from Dudley in the West Midlands, had the thickest Black Country accent you'd ever heard. At break times and lunch times we'd chat about general everyday stuff, what was on the TV, what sports was going on (he liked Speedway track racing, there was a track in Wolverhampton he'd go to) and I would talk about Football, being in Shropshire at the time, Telford United and Shrewsbury were the team's I'd talk about. We'd occasionally go to the pub after work for a pint then back home (is what work mates did back in the day after a long hard day of work). Then one day, come into work, boss comes down to the group (8 of us in the repair group, 6 guys, two females) and boss tells us our work mate is dead, committed suicide. All of us in the group looked at each other stunned, not once had he given any of us any inclining that anything was wrong. He laughed with us, joked with us, always had a smile on his face, never appeared sad. The only social activity we had with him was going to the pub after work. We never intruded into any other our work mates lives. It was always work, a pint after work, a goodbye and see you at work next day.

Even to this day I still ask myself, just how much are we supposed to intrude into another persons personal life?

I too had a work colleague kill himself. I didn't know him outside of work as I was management and he was shop floor (not that I wouldn't have hung out with people from the shop floor, we just didn't).
Anyway one weekend he hung himself. Very sad. He was a young lad who supported WBA and also from the backcountry. Some of the guys on the shop floor had known him since school and were devastated. They were completely shocked by it.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

A chap I knew - he was a good few years ahead of me at university, a lovely, helpful, supportive, interesting and formidably intelligent chap, a terrific university debater and public speaker (he was very encouraging to - and supportive of - me, very kind to me, when I was an undergrad, for I was also a university debater, and this was a time when not many women spoke at student society debates) - killed himself.

Intellectually, he was brilliant; incandescent in his brilliance, but modest and embarrassed. His first degree was a first class honours classics degree (he spoke fluent Latin), then, he followed the family profession - which was medicine - and became a doctor (again, with brilliant results); after several years, okay, a decade or more, he switched to law and became a barrister - I think he wanted the intellectual challenge; again, brilliant results, I remember encountering him when returning home to vote a little over a decade or so ago, perhaps around 15 years ago, and we had a good chat.

Next, I heard that he had become a sheep farmer, followed by reports of his death, which I later learned was suicide, and which came as a profound shock; a chap of such ability, and - at the same time - such patent decency and kindness (and reportedly, his patients had loved him when he worked as a doctor).

Nobody had suspected anything.

 

[pachyderm]

Well dang. I'm sorry you guys. Seems quite a few of us have lost a friend...

I too just found out a few weeks ago that a friend of mine had taken his life four years ago. I, and another good friend, were dumbfounded. Neither of us had heard from him in a while.

He had lost his father, his only remaining relative, and his job within the same week. I guess he decided he was done.

Were friends on FB until he got mad at me about, of all things, about a comment I made about the Tennessee Titans coach.

Anyway, it is a shame.

 

[daneoni]

Its crazy but just sad. You just never know sadly.

We are often brought up being told to be a man and suck it up.

Or worse, when we do open up, it gets dismissed...as this nonsensical segment shows.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Very well done video, credit to Norwich for talking about mental health in a simple but powerful way.

I have known several (far too many, sadly) of friends, classmates, and coworkers who have taken their own lives, and besides the shock and feelings of helplessness / senselessness for those left behind, it is painful to recognize that as a society we simply don't talk to each other about it enough.

It is a particularly serious issue among men, whom society teaches not to show 'weakness' or open up emotionally.

I will say that in the last 20 years or so younger generations have been much more open and accepting of mental health issues, and de-stigmatizing mental health issues is one of the best ways to treat them. A lot of male/football mental-health focused charities are up and running these days, and they are making a big impact in getting men in particular to talk about the issues and get support. It is making a difference.

The world is a much more uncertain place these days - it's gotten to the point that stress management and mental health have to be taken seriously and destigmatized by everyone.

 

[laptech]

I wonder how soon it will be that we will see top tier footballers complain of mental health issues because they believe they are not earning enough. Would they even dare such a thing considering how much a week many of them get paid.

In the past I've heard stories of stock brokers, investment bankers and some lawyers claim mental health issues because they feel they are not being paid enough for the work they are being asked to do. Hence the basis for my question about footballers.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I wonder how soon it will be that we will see top tier footballers complain of mental health issues because they believe they are not earning enough. Would they even dare such a thing considering how much a week many of them get paid.

In the past I've heard stories of stock brokers, investment bankers and some lawyers claim mental health issues because they feel they are not being paid enough for the work they are being asked to do. Hence the basis for my question about footballers.

I doubt that this is the issue.

Rather, I think that (it may be more likely) that some of the mental health issues with footballers may come at the end of their careers.

Not only are have they lost their profession, and their income, - not just salary but also endorsements - (unless they have intelligently invested), but they will also have lost their identity, their sense of self, and will have to deal with stuff such as the (sometimes abrupt) end of the adrenaline that they will have experienced on match days.

They will also have to be able to cope with the sudden end of the adulation they would have received from fans and deference and VIP treatment that they would have received from almost everyone else, from club staff to much of the (mainly male sports) media. For, adrenaline, excitement, applause, - all of that can be every bit as addictive as gambling, or addictions of alcohol, drugs, sex, material possessions, or anything else that the possession of significant wealth allows you to buy.

Losing all of that can lead to a severe identity crisis, as not all footballers can carve a post playing career for themselves in coaching or in the media as a pundit, having neither the temperament nor the talent.

Players - who are still playing - but who have suffered a series of (serious) injuries, may also suffer from mental health issues, as can players who may fall out of favour when a new manager takes over, as their confidence and self-belief can take a considerable hammering.

And, while the adrenaline of matches may suit some, for others, I suspect that the stresses of having to perform consistently at a high level must be intense.

Likewise, the physical demands of the modern pressing game - along with the workload of teams playing in several competitions simultaneously - may also take a toll, not just on a player's physical well-being (and possible increased risk of injury) but perhaps, on their mental health, as well.

And that is not even touching upon the appalling stories of abuse (that some players would have experienced as youngsters) that are only now emerging.

 

[laptech]

I doubt that this is the issue.

Rather, I think that (it may be more likely) that some of the mental health issues with footballers may come at the end of their careers.

Not only are have they lost their profession, and their income, - not just salary but also endorsements - (unless they have intelligently invested), but they will also have lost their identity, their sense of self, and will have to deal with stuff such as the (sometimes abrupt) end of the adrenaline that they will have experienced on match days.

They will also have to be able to cope with the sudden end of the adulation they would have received from fans and deference and VIP treatment that they would have received from almost everyone else, from club staff to much of the (mainly male sports) media. For, adrenaline, excitement, applause, - all of that can be every bit as addictive as gambling, or addictions of alcohol, drugs, sex, material possessions, or anything else that the possession of significant wealth allows you to buy.

Losing all of that can lead to a severe identity crisis, as not all footballers can carve a post playing career for themselves in coaching or in the media as a pundit, having neither the temperament nor the talent.

Players - who are still playing - but who have suffered a series of (serious) injuries, may also suffer from mental health issues, as can players who may fall out of favour when a new manager takes over, as their confidence and self-belief can take a considerable hammering.

And, while the adrenaline of matches may suit some, for others, I suspect that the stresses of having to perform consistently at a high level must be intense.

Likewise, the physical demands of the modern pressing game - along with the workload of teams playing in several competitions simultaneously - may also take a toll, not just on a player's physical well-being (and possible increased risk of injury) but perhaps, on their mental health, as well.

And that is not even touching upon the appalling stories of abuse (that some players would have experienced as youngsters) that are only now emerging.

As I was reading your post and taking in the words, one footballer instantly came to mind, Paul Gascoigne.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I wonder how soon it will be that we will see top tier footballers complain of mental health issues because they believe they are not earning enough. Would they even dare such a thing considering how much a week many of them get paid.

I doubt that this is the issue.

Rather, I think that (it may be more likely) that some of the mental health issues with footballers may come at the end of their careers.

We think of footballers as elite athletes, highly trained by slick organizations. Which is true, but they are also young men with an abbreviated education. Up until quite recently, nobody considered it necessary to school them in how to deal with wealth and celebrity, how to manage their money and how avoid being taken advantage of. Nor were they given much help making the huge transition from the intense life of a professional footballer to being a suddenly unemployed man in their 30s with a worn out body and no income.

We now realize that this is a potentially traumatic transition and most footballers struggle with it. Some never make the transition, and only a relative few are so wealthy they never have to work again - and even those may struggle with a lack of purpose or direction. Recently clubs have started taking some measures to prepare footballers for life after their short careers end, but more needs to be done.

 

[Lioness~]

Our guys had a good win against a not so nicely played Moldova 💙🇸🇪💛
Moldova 7 yellow cards and 1 red, the Swedes none. Training match.

But 3-1
1 missed penalty, included, but our guys got in shortly after.

 

[Lioness~]

Incredible mental health awareness ad by Norwich City

*Warning, may be distressing to some viewers*

I had a brother who committed suicide.
He unfortunately pushed away everyone, and wanted to control everything and everyone around him.
I have known a few other people who have decided to end their lives themselves too.
Even a woman who were a psychologist, and we were close early in life, but lost contact.

If I’ve seen a commonality between suicidal ppl, it have seemed to me that they want to keep a very cool or high achieving and controlling persona.
I can imagine that it can become a drive to build a bigger ego of performance to protect what is vulnerable in them, especially if they don’t like their vulnerability themselves.

Then it’s very difficult for other people to reach through.

edit: Forgot to say that I got to know this woman in the football period of my life. Football celebrations and parties usually contained a lot of alcohol. I've never been fond of drinking and neither was she, so we had 'deep talks' instead.

 

[fanboy-ish]

Even to this day I still ask myself, just how much are we supposed to intrude into another persons personal life?

It depends how good they have become at compartmentalizing their lives. Usually, someone who has struggled with mental health for years has also developed defense mechanisms such as compartmentalization, so that people won't realize what's really going on.

In May I started a 3-months cycle with EScitalopram (an antidepressant), my epileptologist, who is also a behavioral neurologist, prescribed it to me; nobody knew, I live with my family, they didn't know I was taking it, colleagues had no clue. Only my doctor realized that there was something wrong, but he's a trained professional, to everybody else I'm perfectly fine, people wouldn't believe me even if I told them, that's how good at hiding I've become.

My coping mechanism is keeping myself busy, I mean really, really busy, so busy that my free time is spent having meals, showering and sleeping. People, of course, ask me why I keep such a hectic schedule and, naturally, I tell them I'm just partaking in activities I like.

I had persistent suicidal thoughts in the past (I think, in part, due to a wrong seizure medication), I found that chatting with Lifeline helps a lot. (I'm not from the USA, I just use a VPN). Now, I wouldn't say I have suicidal thoughts as persistent and frequent as before, it's more that I just don't care about life and death, when I think about the possibility of dying, I feel indifference, the same indifference I feel towards basically everything and everyone.

I've read the other users' posts about having family and friends committing suicide, sorry if my words may appear cold or superficial, but, at least for me, it's just the way it is.

Anonymity makes it so much easier to talk about these things.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I've read the other users' posts about having family and friends committing suicide, sorry if my words may appear cold or superficial, but, at least for me, it's just the way it is.

I think that is very valuable insight, thank you for sharing.

Most of us use coping mechanisms to get through our day, but for some it is a much more serious challenge. It’s important to try and understand what people are going through so we can be the best friends, family, and partners we can be.

I think that’s what makes the Norwich video powerful. It’s easy to miss the signs, and sometimes it’s hard to get people to open up. But we need to be supportive all the same.

 

[Lioness~]

I've read the other users' posts about having family and friends committing suicide, sorry if my words may appear cold or superficial, but, at least for me, it's just the way it is.

Your words or thoughts doesn't bother me at all - they are entirely yours 😁
You have your reality - whatever that is, I don't know you a bit. - and I have mine.

But I am very much looking forward, with big excitement, to the continuation of the The Women's Nations League matches.
Sweden meet Switzerland the 27th here in my city - Gothenburg - and in Malmö in Sweden against Italy 4 days later 💥⚽️

This is important!