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mectojic

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Dec 27, 2020
1,330
2,523
Sydney, Australia
It couldn't be more clear now. In the event John Termus said the 4.5k 24-inch iMac is a perfect upgrade from 4k or 5k iMacs.

Perhaps, some day, a 30 or 32-inch iMac would come. But personally, I think that's a dream. All-in-ones are a mostly dead category. They don't sell enough to even bother with new colours, switching to USB-C, or upgrading the base ram or memory.
 

subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
6,253
6,735
It couldn't be more clear now. In the event John Termus said the 4.5k 24-inch iMac is a perfect upgrade from 4k or 5k iMacs.

Perhaps, some day, a 30 or 32-inch iMac would come. But personally, I think that's a dream. All-in-ones are a mostly dead category. They don't sell enough to even bother with new colours, switching to USB-C, or upgrading the base ram or memory.
I noticed when Termus said that too. It almost seemed like a message specifically to anyone hoping for a larger iMac to stop hoping. I agree even a 30+” 6k doesn't seem very likely after that statement because it would just seem odd to explicitly dash hopes for a 5k specifically while having plans for a 6k in the future. Why make that statement at all then? But who knows.

Do you mean switching the mouse and keyboard to USBC? Yes, strange, I was expecting that. But I imagine it will switch over soon, probably with just a press release.
 
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subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
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While it might not be nice, I believe the answer is straightforward

Wants people to stop waiting and asking for a 27” Apple Silicon iMac and just go out and buy Mac mini/studio and a separate ASD instead. Basically: Complain less & buy more.
Yeah could be. Also the whole event seemed like a “please upgrade” message, especially aimed at Intel Mac users, so Termus may have simply been calling out the 4k and 5k Intel iMac users to upgrade.
 

Mikeske

macrumors 6502
Jan 14, 2012
457
360
Washington
I do not care what he said because I will not "upgrade" to a less capable iMac then the 6 year old 27" 5K iMac I have right now and then charge that much for a 1TB drive they can kiss off. I was hoping they have something for us in the realm of an affordable but powerful machine but alas his words seemed to say kiss off larger screen folks.
 

Bug-Creator

macrumors 68000
May 30, 2011
1,783
4,717
Germany
Also the whole event seemed like a “please upgrade” message, especially aimed at Intel Mac users

They for sure want to phase out Intel ASAP. Which will be problematic considering for how recently they removed the old MacPro from their site.

so Termus may have simply been calling out the 4k and 5k Intel iMac users to upgrade.

iMac returning to it's original consumer focussed self was clear from the day the 24" launched and if anything this was meant as a wake up call for those still refusing that reality.
 

profets

macrumors 603
Mar 18, 2009
5,165
6,313
I noticed that as well, definitely felt like an intentional message.

Re the colours - funny how what is likely a low volume product ends up with the 'loudest' and largest number of colour options.

I love the iMac (and desktops in general - I've never really used a laptop). I hope they do stick around for years to come.

And yeah - I'll still hold out hope for an iMac Pro return one day.
 
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theluggage

macrumors G3
Jul 29, 2011
8,011
8,444
I noticed that as well, definitely felt like an intentional message.
The message has been clear since as long ago as 2022 when they announced the Studio & Studio Display and said "That just leaves one model to switch to Apple Silicon - the Mac Pro".

The "large iMac" market has likely been decimated because:
  • The whole industry shifting towards laptops and mobiles
  • Mac desktops no longer have any performance advantage over laptops (until you get to the Ultra)
  • Wider choice of separate displays - even Apple now offers two sizes
  • 24" iMac is a lot better than the 21.5" & will satisfy many low-end 5k iMac users
  • Some like iMac but many only bought them because they were the only viable desktop Mac in the price/power range - now Apple offer a better choice of Minis and Studios which are far more flexible.
  • Potential "large iMac" customers would be split over what size & display tech they wanted.
  • The PC market has pretty much stuck on "4k" UHD so 5k@27" or 6k@32" are expensive niches.
  • Apple can sell Studio Displays to MacBook Pro, Mini, Studio and Mac Pro owners alike, far wider than the iMac niche
I suspect that the killer is the second point - many people who previously needed a MacBook for portability and an iMac for power now only need a MacBook Pro and a large display.
 
The message has been clear since as long ago as 2022 when they announced the Studio & Studio Display and said "That just leaves one model to switch to Apple Silicon - the Mac Pro".

The "large iMac" market has likely been decimated because:
  • The whole industry shifting towards laptops and mobiles
  • Mac desktops no longer have any performance advantage over laptops (until you get to the Ultra)
  • Wider choice of separate displays - even Apple now offers two sizes
  • 24" iMac is a lot better than the 21.5" & will satisfy many low-end 5k iMac users
  • Some like iMac but many only bought them because they were the only viable desktop Mac in the price/power range - now Apple offer a better choice of Minis and Studios which are far more flexible.
  • Potential "large iMac" customers would be split over what size & display tech they wanted.
  • The PC market has pretty much stuck on "4k" UHD so 5k@27" or 6k@32" are expensive niches.
  • Apple can sell Studio Displays to MacBook Pro, Mini, Studio and Mac Pro owners alike, far wider than the iMac niche
I suspect that the killer is the second point - many people who previously needed a MacBook for portability and an iMac for power now only need a MacBook Pro and a large display.

Wait until the Mac-destined Silicon SoC is not only brought over to iOS/iPadOS devices, but those devices also match the specs of laptops — in particular, the iPad lines.

Bets now open on which transpires first: the variety of MacBook Air and Pro sizes get reduced to one size for all (I’m guessing in a 14- or 15-inch form factor across the board); OR the macOS transition to iOS gets completed by Federighi’s team and macOS is laid to rest.
 

subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
6,253
6,735
Wait until the Mac-destined Silicon SoC is not only brought over to iOS/iPadOS devices, but those devices also match the specs of laptops — in particular, the iPad lines.

Bets now open on which transpires first: the variety of MacBook Air and Pro sizes get reduced to one size for all (I’m guessing in a 14- or 15-inch form factor across the board); OR the macOS transition to iOS gets completed by Federighi’s team and macOS is laid to rest.
I don’t think iOS/ipadOS will replace or merge with macOS in any foreseeable future. I also don’t think it’s likely MacBooks will consolidate to one size, but if they do, I don’t think it will be because of iPads but because of spatial computing.
 
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I don’t think iOS/ipadOS will replace or merge with macOS in any foreseeable future.

You clearly haven’t been paying attention since Bertrand Serlet handed the keys to Craig Federighi mid-stream on the development of Lion.

You haven’t been paying scrutiny at the inclusion of bridgeOS or the rolling out of T1/T2 subprocessors.

And you especially haven’t been paying close notice — either over or beneath the bonnet — since OS X/macOS 10.xx was moved to macOS 11+ upon the move to Silicon SoCs.

I also don’t think it’s likely MacBooks will consolidate to one size, but if they do, I don’t think it will be because of iPads but because of spatial computing.

I don’t foreclose the possibility of capacitive displays finding their way to surviving laptop models.

Federighi, with Cook’s blessing, has worked steadily, unswerving, toward making this convergence Apple’s version of “fetch”.
 

HobeSoundDarryl

macrumors G5
Apple people in marketing videos ALWAYS, UNIVERSALLY push what is for sale now. You will not get much encouragement to wait a little longer for something new not yet available. What is the standard line about the Apple product pipeline? Think about the various reasons WHY they may have that policy.

Do you recall the time Jobs ridiculed the idea of people asking for iPods with a color screen... only to roll out an iPod with a color screen the next year?

How about Apple not including a front-facing camera in that first iPad and spinning how it was not needed... only to put one into gen 2 and make it the centerpiece argument for upgrading?

Can you recall Apple soundly ridiculing phablet-sized phones FOR YEARS while clinging to 3.5" and then 4" as "perfect"? Where do you think the term "one-handed use" came from?

What this Exec said could very well be taken to mean that no other iMac will ever be produced by Apple. OR it could be more of the same: push what we are able to sell now. In another part of the video, the same guy also shared how people could 'save' $100 over the old price but, in discontinuing the entry-level MBpro, it takes $300 MORE out of our wallets to 'save' that $100... and you don't get a PRO or MAX chip in a MB PRO computer to get that 'savings.'

I don't work for Apple, nor write a weekly newsletter based upon relationships with Apple people, nor monitor supply chain channels in Asia... but I've seen enough "say one thing, do something else" if not outright flip:flops by Apple over the years to know that official word at any given time revolves around maximizing what is for sale now. With no iMac "bigger" able to be monetized right now, there is absolutely no reason to talk about it... nor imply it is "coming soon."

Some may recall that going into the launch of M1 Mac Studio, all expectations were for a Mac Mini that MIGHT have PRO & MAX chips... which was the same rumor that had existed since the previous Fall. Nobody at Apple teased Mac Studio in advance. It just showed up one day in the launch video.

I also see enough want/demand for iMac "bigger" to believe one will almost certainly resurrect at some point. My guess is that it will be branded PRO and cost 2X-3X the former iMac 27" price. Why? I strongly suspect the hiatus is driven by the issue that a $2K all-in-one with a 5K 27" screen could not deliver the Apple expanding margin target. So- IMO- it got killed because it was NOT profitable enough, not due to a lack of popularity. Else, its screen alone- the ASD- could be priced much lower than it is. And now that ASD is established at the former iMacs pricing, adding a whole Mac + Keyboard + Mouse to that should be able to again get Apple's target margin.

I also look at 21" becoming 24" to think that 27" will become 30"-32". Add a few more inches in size- like they did to the 21" iMac- and they can easily rationalize a higher price for that too... especially since Apple's 32" screen retails at $5K with a thousand dollar stand.

So, I think he told the truth: no 5K 27" iMac coming... but a 30"-32" 5.5K-6K iMac would fulfill that same claim. He's endorsing the 27" want(er)s down to 24" and any 21" wants up to 24" because 24" is what can make Apple money now. Roll out a 30"-32" though and that can pull up some 27" wants and slot right into the mix. Brand & Price it as a PRO and pricing doesn't undermine ASD or Separates combinations... and delivers that FAT target margin too.

Apple likes fat profit margin. If enough people will pay up for an iMac "Bigger", it WILL come. I'll be personally surprised if it hasn't resurrected somewhere in the next 2 years. My gut says WWDC to next Fall.

Would Apple dare price an iMac "bigger" resurrection at much higher than $2K? They already did, about 7 years ago, branded iMac 27" PRO. I can already imagine the marketing pitch charts & graphics comparing a 2024-25 iMac Pro against that 2017 iMac PRO to make it look insanely superior... in every way... just like last night's presentation was comparing M3 Macs to M1 and Intel vs. saying anything about M2. Why? They want to maximize sales and bigger improvements can excite... and, at the same time, they don't want to put down M2 too much since it remains in all of the rest of the Macs for sale right now.
 
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Jashue

macrumors member
Feb 3, 2014
64
27
Syracuse
So the typical top-of-the line iMac buyer (27" spec'd very well) is now forced to buy a mid-tier Mac Studio (this, to my mind seems like the lateral move) plus an external monitor. The $4,000 I would budget for the machine is now a $5,400 expense if the Apple monitor is selected.

Yeah.... that's not going to happen.

It seems they have really abandoned people in that segment. Must be that they crunched the numbers and figured it's a segment worth abandoning. Realizations like this really challenge my love for this company.
 

Phil77354

macrumors 68000
Jun 22, 2014
1,926
2,036
Pacific Northwest, U.S.
Well, I'm still holding out (barely) for a new 27" (or larger) iMac, continuing to use my late-2014 Intel 27” iMac which for almost all of my needs is still perfectly fine. I'm simply expecting that it will eventually require replacement for one reason or another, plus (more importantly) it is unsatisfying to me that I'm no longer able to keep up with the latest macOS updates since they are all for the newer non-Intel Mac models.

I will also mention that this late-2014 27” iMac cost $2999 plus tax when I purchased it in December 2014 - this is with 16GB RAM (since upgraded to 32GB) and 500 GB flash storage. I feel that my decision to go with an all-solid state computer has paid off in longevity. 9 years and still running strong!

It is very reassuring to me that for this same $3K, 9 years later, I can buy a fully optioned out iMac (albeit 24"), in fact it would cost slightly less (having just gone through that exercise on the Apple website). That, to me, is remarkable. (I do not know which color I would select, either. It's going to take a trip to the Apple store to see them all in person before I could take the plunge and go for something other than trusty silver).

Whenever I consider the present (Apple Mac) alternatives, I find that:

- the 24" iMac is great in all respects except for the smaller display (I had previously thought that 16GB RAM was insufficient, so the new model with 24GB RAM removes that minor concern). Pricing is excellent, in my opinion.
- I'm not a laptop person and buying a new MacBook plus display for my day-to-day desktop use is just not what I'm interested in doing (but I suppose I could be convinced differently). Cost varies over a wide range depending upon which MacBook model is selected.
- the Studio, plus Studio display, is two components and is more expensive than what would I prefer to pay (plus it is just more computer than I need, frankly) - the least expensive Studio (which would be more than adequate for my needs), with 2TB storage, plus the Apple Studio display, would be just over $4K (and I'm not sure about whether I'd want to get the height adjustable stand). Yes, I could get a non-Apple display, but I'm not gonna do that having been fully satisfied with Apple computers for many decades since the first Macintosh.
- a mini, plus display? Again, I just don't want the separate components although it is a sensible choice and would in all likelihood be fully satisfactory for my needs. And the least expensive mini with 24GB RAM and 2TB storage is only a few hundred less than the cheapest Studio anyway, so if I decided to go with separate Apple components then might as well get the Studio.

None of us has any particular insight into Apple's plans for the next year or more. I personally think that there is still a reasonable possibility for a larger display iMac, even if it will be well into 2024 (if at all) and my trusty old iMac will be 10 years old by then! If it turns out that Apple does not eventually bring out a larger display all-in-one, then I'll go with one of the alternatives available when the time comes, and probably be just fine.
 
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GMShadow

macrumors 68020
Jun 8, 2021
2,123
8,669
So the typical top-of-the line iMac buyer (27" spec'd very well) is now forced to buy a mid-tier Mac Studio (this, to my mind seems like the lateral move) plus an external monitor. The $4,000 I would budget for the machine is now a $5,400 expense if the Apple monitor is selected.

Yeah.... that's not going to happen.

It seems they have really abandoned people in that segment. Must be that they crunched the numbers and figured it's a segment worth abandoning. Realizations like this really challenge my love for this company.

I have doubts they sold that many of the top-tier iMacs post 2019, honestly. The sales tipped upward starting with the 5K when the Mac Pro got old and the Mini was moved to ULV parts, but likely started to swing the other way when Apple brought back a serious Mini in 2018 and then the new MP in 2019.

Definitely wasn't enough to even refresh the iMac Pro either.


As for me, when the time comes I figure I'll replace my 2020 5K with either a top-end Mini + monitor or a low-end Studio + monitor, and I'll probably be able to keep the monitor across two Macs, so that will balance the costs even more.
 
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gpat

macrumors 68000
Mar 1, 2011
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Italy
It couldn't be more clear now. In the event John Termus said the 4.5k 24-inch iMac is a perfect upgrade from 4k or 5k iMacs.

It really doesn't mean much.
They push statements like this all the time, even if they have better products for the job in their pipeline.

I'm not in the market for a 27" iMac, I'm just saying that these statements are not indicator of any future direction. They only serve to justify the 2023 lineup.
 
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picpicmac

macrumors 65816
Aug 10, 2023
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1,833
So the typical top-of-the line iMac buyer (27" spec'd very well) is now forced to buy a mid-tier Mac Studio (this, to my mind seems like the lateral move) plus an external monitor. The $4,000 I would budget for the machine is now a $5,400 expense if the Apple monitor is selected.
Hmm... sounds like status concerns.

Here's the $4k budget:

ASD: $1499
Mac Studio M2 Max w/ 64GB RAM: $2159
Total: $3658.

Leaves you $342 with which to buy a large external SSD and a Logitech keyboard.
 

bobcomer

macrumors 601
May 18, 2015
4,949
3,699
No matter the long-ago death of the iMac 27" desktop, can anyone recommend a reliable refurbished one on offer anywhere?
It looks like Apple finally stopped selling them in the refurbished store. :(

OWC is a good place.

 

picpicmac

macrumors 65816
Aug 10, 2023
1,239
1,833
It looks like Apple finally stopped selling them in the refurbished store.
They had some just last week. All gone already? (It appears so, I just checked.)

But 27" is still in the selection menu, so conceivably they could get more in.
 

bobcomer

macrumors 601
May 18, 2015
4,949
3,699
They had some just last week. All gone already? (It appears so, I just checked.)
Yep and yep. I was surprised they were gone today!

But 27" is still in the selection menu, so conceivably they could get more in.
Maybe. I'm okay with my 2020 27" though. The only thing I'd want is maybe an i9 or an iMac Pro. Probably something will come along. :)
 

dumastudetto

macrumors 603
Aug 28, 2013
5,530
8,309
Los Angeles, USA
So the typical top-of-the line iMac buyer (27" spec'd very well) is now forced to buy a mid-tier Mac Studio (this, to my mind seems like the lateral move) plus an external monitor. The $4,000 I would budget for the machine is now a $5,400 expense if the Apple monitor is selected.

Yeah.... that's not going to happen.

It seems they have really abandoned people in that segment. Must be that they crunched the numbers and figured it's a segment worth abandoning. Realizations like this really challenge my love for this company.

Remember, you can re-use that amazing Mac Studio Display with future Mac Studio purchases. You won't have to keep re-buying iMac displays with every computer. Initially this requires a marginally bigger investment, but in future you'll be gold to keep upgrading to new Macs at awesomely affordable prices.
 

nathansz

macrumors 68000
Jul 24, 2017
1,688
1,944
Remember, you can re-use that amazing Mac Studio Display with future Mac Studio purchases. You won't have to keep re-buying iMac displays with every computer. Initially this requires a marginally bigger investment, but in future you'll be gold to keep upgrading to new Macs at awesomely affordable prices.

You’ve missed the point.

Now for what was the price of a computer and display you are only getting the computer
 
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