The Car Thread ... !

[AustinIllini]

Nothing at all. People will continue to drive them. Life will move on.

We get you're a VAG homer, but you can't possibly believe this. You cannot buy a Volkswagen diesel that matches emissions and performance standards in the United States. No such car exists. It's not just a mistake, this is fraud. You should be furious.

 

[macquariumguy]

I think VW is in a world of hurt and there's a chance the brand will not survive, at least not in the US.

Every one of those 500,000 TDI cars in the US will need to be fixed in order to be road legal. The fix will almost certainly permanently reduce the value of the cars. What's more, I think it's almost certain that unaffected VW cars will decline in value as well because of the damage to the brand.

Lawsuits. Millions and millions of them. And that's just in the US and doesn't count any government sanctions. I think they're screwed.

 

[AustinIllini]

I think VW is in a world of hurt and there's a chance the brand will not survive, at least not in the US.

Every one of those 500,000 TDI cars in the US will need to be fixed in order to be road legal. The fix will almost certainly permanently reduce the value of the cars. What's more, I think it's almost certain that unaffected VW cars will decline in value as well because of the damage to the brand.

Lawsuits. Millions and millions of them. And that's just in the US and doesn't count any government sanctions. I think they're screwed.

I would assume, perhaps wrongly, that their gas cars are also not gaming the system? I suppose you have to check any Audis also.

 

[A.Goldberg]

The CEO just resigned, though claims he was not in the know.

I can't imagine how they didn't think someone would catch on here. I'd be curious to see what happens from here.

I'm glad I didn't buy my Toureg TDI yet. Not a big fan of fraudulent companies myself, regardless of the CEO is involved or not.

Ouch!

 

[determined09]

The CEO just resigned, though claims he was not in the know.

I can't imagine how they didn't think someone would catch on here. I'd be curious to see what happens from here.

I'm glad I didn't buy my Toureg TDI yet. Not a big fan of fraudulent companies myself, regardless of the CEO is involved or not.

Ouch!
View attachment 584634

Good the CEO stepped down.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Good the CEO stepped down.

If he was involved, good. If he was in the dark about the entire thing, it's an honorable move but it's really just a publicity stunt. It doesn't really change the fact that people within his company are misleading their customer and foreign governments. It's very possible Mr. Winterkorn has everything or nothing to do with this.

I don't think is the "the end" for VW ("in the US"), but I expect it will have a significant impact on trust and therefore sales. It sounds like only some diesel models are affected. The affected models are TDI models of the 2009-2015 Jettas, Beetles, Golfs, and Audi A3's, as well as 2014-15 Passat TDI's. Recalling 11 MILLION CARS worldwide is a pretty big deal though (though they may only recall in countries that care about emissions/where the emissions are above the target). 6% of VW's sales are in the US and the majority of their vehicles are gas, so the impact here is not nearly as big as it will be in Europe, if a problem is recognized there as well.

 

[2298754]

We get you're a VAG homer, but you can't possibly believe this. You cannot buy a Volkswagen diesel that matches emissions and performance standards in the United States. No such car exists. It's not just a mistake, this is fraud. You should be furious.

Sold my VW TDI a few years ago for a BMW Diesel

That being said, I'm still waiting for the cold hard facts. There is some serious non-sense being spewed all over the internet about this topic. Let's see what the government is going to do.

I do agree that VW screwed up hard, but the fines that people are talking about are just nuts. $18 billion?

Why does GM get a light slap on the wrist for their ignition problems, yet VW gets ****ed? Barra STILL hasn't admit that she knew about the problems. VW's CEO, at least, went on record and said they did it.

Even after all this crap, I will go on record and say I'd buy another VW Diesel in a heartbeat. Let them fix the issues.

Every one of those 500,000 TDI cars in the US will need to be fixed in order to be road legal. The fix will almost certainly permanently reduce the value of the cars. What's more, I think it's almost certain that unaffected VW cars will decline in value as well because of the damage to the brand.

We might be jumping to conclusions. We don't even know what this "fix" is going to be.

For all we know, it could just be a simple software flash...

Th
I'm glad I didn't buy my Toureg TDI yet. Not a big fan of fraudulent companies myself, regardless of the CEO is involved or not.

Everything I've read seems to claim it was only the 4 banger diesels, not the 6.

I was reading somewhere that US VW sales only make up something like 6% of their volume worldwide. Not a big deal if they leave the US.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Sold my VW TDI a few years ago for a BMW Diesel

That being said, I'm still waiting for the cold hard facts. There is some serious non-sense being spewed all over the internet about this topic. Let's see what the government is going to do.

I do agree that VW screwed up hard, but the fines that people are talking about are just nuts. $18 billion?

Why does GM get a light slap on the wrist for their ignition problems, yet VW gets ****ed? Barra STILL hasn't admit that she knew about the problems. VW's CEO, at least, went on record and said they did it.

Even after all this crap, I will go on record and say I'd buy another VW Diesel in a heartbeat. Let them fix the issues.


We might be jumping to conclusions. We don't even know what this "fix" is going to be.

For all we know, it could just be a simple software flash...


Everything I've read seems to claim it was only the 4 banger diesels, not the 6.

I was reading somewhere that US VW sales only make up something like 6% of their volume worldwide. Not a big deal if they leave the US.

Yeah, my post right above here cites the 6% figure- that's from the NYT. It doesn't look like the T-Reg is affected. I imagine the "recall" will be a software update that will either reduce economy and/or power. It's evident the car is capable of the promised emissions, just not with the other advertised parameters. And if this problem affects the US's emission requirements (far stricter diesel emissions than most anywhere else), it could be a non issue in many countries beyond mis marketing themselves.

 

[AustinIllini]

Yeah, my post right above here cites the 6% figure- that's from the NYT. It doesn't look like the T-Reg is affected. I imagine the "recall" will be a software update that will either reduce economy and/or power. It's evident the car is capable of the promised emissions, just not with the other advertised parameters. And if this problem affects the US's emission requirements (far stricter diesel emissions than most anywhere else), it could be a non issue in many countries beyond mis marketing themselves.

So, the bigger issue is VW lied and cheated, not that they can't meet emissions. Both issues are huge. The Lawyers are already having a field day with this.

 

[A.Goldberg]

So, the bigger issue is VW lied and cheated, not that they can't meet emissions. Both issues are huge. The Lawyers are already having a field day with this.

Well yes, it will be interesting how things play out compared to past problems. You have a couple things here...
1) This is not a safety issue- no one has been harmed or killed
2) Most other automotive scandals are covering up a shoddy design. This is intentionally deceiving the government.

My point when it comes to the complexity of the fix is I regards to the amount of money they will spend on the recall. Obviously a software rework is cheap compared to replacing the emissions system of the vehicle.

 

[macquariumguy]

1) This is not a safety issue- no one has been harmed or killed

I'll bet dollars to donuts there will be attempts to quantify how many people died because of the increased pollution from these cars.

 

[2298754]

I'll bet dollars to donuts there will be attempts to quantify how many people died because of the increased pollution from these cars.

I'm sure some liberals will try to pull this crap.

If they really want to bring up recalls that actually killed people, the US government needs to go after Takata and GM.

 

[A.Goldberg]

I'm sure some liberals will try to pull this crap.

If they really want to bring up recalls that actually killed people, the US government needs to go after Takata and GM.

I'm quite confident lying about emissions will be considered a far bigger crime than killing people and covering it up.

If not people dying, I'm sure someone will try and sue VW for pain and suffering saying their emphysema or whatever respiratory disease is now worse because of the additional NOx emissions produced.

 

[2298754]

I'm quite confident lying about emissions will be considered a far bigger crime than killing people and covering it up.

If not people dying, I'm sure someone will try and sue VW for pain and suffering saying their emphysema or whatever respiratory disease is now worse because of the additional NOx emissions produced.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/volksw...lers-in-the-wake-of-diesel-emissions-scandal/

Looks like VW is supporting its dealers by paying them for the diesel models they can't sell...

On that note, didn't GM try to strong arm the victims of ignition issues to shut up about the issues? They still haven't officially admit the problems. Why is that being swept under the rug?

 

[2298754]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bmw-shares-slip-report-high-094815297.html

BMW is suspected of the same crap

 

[AustinIllini]

http://blog.caranddriver.com/volksw...lers-in-the-wake-of-diesel-emissions-scandal/

Looks like VW is supporting its dealers by paying them for the diesel models they can't sell...

On that note, didn't GM try to strong arm the victims of ignition issues to shut up about the issues? They still haven't officially admit the problems. Why is that being swept under the rug?

This level of fraud is still unprecedented. VAG is in huge trouble.

 

[determined09]

If he was involved, good. If he was in the dark about the entire thing, it's an honorable move but it's really just a publicity stunt. It doesn't really change the fact that people within his company are misleading their customer and foreign governments. It's very possible Mr. Winterkorn has everything or nothing to do with this.

I don't think is the "the end" for VW ("in the US"), but I expect it will have a significant impact on trust and therefore sales. It sounds like only some diesel models are affected. The affected models are TDI models of the 2009-2015 Jettas, Beetles, Golfs, and Audi A3's, as well as 2014-15 Passat TDI's. Recalling 11 MILLION CARS worldwide is a pretty big deal though (though they may only recall in countries that care about emissions/where the emissions are above the target). 6% of VW's sales are in the US and the majority of their vehicles are gas, so the impact here is not nearly as big as it will be in Europe, if a problem is recognized there as well.

Usually procedures and policies come from the top down, I'll be shocked if the CEO didn't really know what was happening with this situation.

I agree with you I don't Think this will be end of VW. I just found out that back in 1973 VW Had a similar problem with 25,000 cars unfortunately.

 

[A.Goldberg]

View attachment 585222

Usually procedures and policies come from the top down, I'll be shocked if the CEO didn't really know what was happening with this situation.

I agree with you I don't Think this will be end of VW. I just found out that back in 1973 VW Had a similar problem with 25,000 cars unfortunately.

There was an article in the NYT yesterday or the day before about the automotive industry's long track record of such cover ups and deception. Cadillac is another company who did such things.

The problem here is a software design. The CEO is an engineer by education, not a programmer. The directive could have come from a rogue programming department or a lower level manger. There's already fingers being pointed at other executives within the company.

The truth may be the directive came from the very top -or- that it did not but the CEO found out about it and did nothing about it -or- he was in the dark completely. It will be very interesting to see how this unravels.

 

[Digger148]

So long story short ... I checked out a Ford Explorer Sport. This is the "hotrod" Explorer model powered by an [easily tuned] 3.5L TT V6 with 365HP/350TQ.

I like it _quite_a_bit_.

It was "tri-coat" white like this:

They nearly all resemble law enforcement vehicles to me, especially when decked out in black wheels and black grille.

 

[Digger148]

Tesla has some real competition, hopefully soon.

Mission E concept. +300 miles, 600 hp, charge to 80% in 15 minutes.

Tesla has some real competition, hopefully soon.

Mission E concept. +300 miles, 600 hp, charge to 80% in 15 minutes.

View attachment 581596

Hopefully, it will get a new body before/if/when put in production. That thing looks like a 1990s car show concept from GM or Chrysler.

 

[heehee]

@Digger148 You are the first person I heard who said it's not gorgeous and everything Panamera should have been.

 

[determined09]

There was an article in the NYT yesterday or the day before about the automotive industry's long track record of such cover ups and deception. Cadillac is another company who did such things.

The problem here is a software design. The CEO is an engineer by education, not a programmer. The directive could have come from a rogue programming department or a lower level manger. There's already fingers being pointed at other executives within the company.

The truth may be the directive came from the very top -or- that it did not but the CEO found out about it and did nothing about it -or- he was in the dark completely. It will be very interesting to see how this unravels.

You're right the CEO may or not may have known about this deception.

I'll go check out that article from the NYT.

 

[senseless]

The good thing to come out of all will be changes to emission testing. I'm surprised the agencies did not test vehicles in an actual driving scenario with a tailpipe sniffer. We also need to clean up commercial vehicles and container ships because they pollute way more than all the cars in the world.

 

[determined09]

Reports: Volkswagen was warned about illegal emissions tricks year ago

source: http://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2015/09/27/reports-vw-warned-about-illegal-emissions-tricks-year-ago

 

[MatthewLTL]

can you program a Ford keyless entry fob to work on a Chevy?