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2298754

Cancelled
Jun 21, 2010
4,890
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The C-Class is the only one, IMO, that has any type of pulling influence.

The C and the B9 A4 fall into the same category. As someone who has actually seen the B9 A4 in person, it's the only car that can match up to the Benz in terms of interior quality. I'm even willing to say that it probably has the best infotainment system in its class with the combination of MMI, virtual cockpit, and HUD.

In terms of styling, I do agree... it's typical Audi and expected, but what other German maker isn't following the same "one design, 3 lengths" formula?

The major issue here is that Audi doesn't subsidize their leases, like Mercedes and BMW. The Audi will almost always cost more to lease than the equivalent C/3.

[doublepost=1452223126][/doublepost]
I was really hoping to see the interior of the A4 take cues from the A3, which is so contemporary and fresh.

Different target audience and price-class. The A3 and MK3 TT have similar interior design. These are both more youthful products.

The A4 is a higher end car, therefore it shares its interior with the more expensive products. In this case, similar design to the MK2 Q7.
 
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puma1552

Suspended
Nov 20, 2008
5,559
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AutoUnion39 said:
Different target audience and price-class. The A3 and MK3 TT have similar interior design. These are both more youthful products.

True, I was too lazy to also include the new TT in my last post, but that interior is super nice as well, especially with that nav inbetween the gauges and I love having the climate controls/heated seats integrated into the air vents. That's the kind of cool/fresh stuff I like to see and was hoping to see in the B9 A4. They could argue the A4 is still somewhat youthful since there are still the A6/A8 for middle age/senior execs.

A later B9 may be on my radar at some point, surely.
 

2298754

Cancelled
Jun 21, 2010
4,890
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A later B9 may be on my radar at some point, surely.

The 2017 build-your-own just went up on AudiUSA.com. No more manual. No more ZF 8AT either. It's all Audi S-tronic.

Hopefully, it's coming later or, at least, the S4 gets it? :(

I think the Virtual Cockpit is coming to the A3 with the facelift. The A3 concept had it way back when.


[doublepost=1452225862][/doublepost]http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-toyota-rav4-hybrid-first-test-review/

Glowing review for the RAV4 Hybrid

5996eb88be.png
 

puma1552

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Nov 20, 2008
5,559
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B9 A4 pricing and configurator are up. That's a pretty large price increase year over year. Close to $50k now for a P+ Quattro how I'd like it, compared to around $42k for a 2016 ordered up. $40k to start for a bottom end Premium Quattro is a bit high IMO, extra added content aside. I would need P+ no matter what to get S-line exterior and LED headlights, so it's basically a $50k car now.

http://jalopnik.com/the-2017-audi-a4...o-a-1751715127

"Audi has completely updated every panel of the A4 sedan for 2017, though you’d be hard pressed to notice any changes at all. The biggest change you will notice is a hike in the price, with the base A4 now starting at $37,300 before destination fees.

That destination fee is worth $950 dollars, and that $37,300 asking price on the FWD Premium trim is up from the $35,900 price tag of the outgoing A4. The 2017 A4 Quattro will start at $39,400 before destination fee.

Audi backs up the jump in price with a lot of value in now-standard features, including keyless start/stop, Audi’s smartphone interface, a rear view camera, 3-zone climate control, and Audi’s pre-sense city technology, which uses a front facing camera on the windshield to scan the road for obstacles and pedestrians, warning the driver and stopping the car to avoid an accident. That’s quite a bit of kit for $1,400.
The new A4 will show up this Spring offering a 2.0 liter turbocharged four-cylinder with 252 hp and 273 lb-ft of torque, and the range will expand later on with a lower entry-level 2.0 liter engine and, according to Audi, a new 2.0 liter diesel option. Then, of course, the Audi S4 will go on sale with a 3.0 liter turbocharged good for 349 hp and 368 lb-ft, with a claimed 0 to 60 time of 4.7 seconds.

The A4 will be equipped with a 7-speed dual-clutch transmission, while the new S4 drops the dual-clutch for a new eight-speed tiptronic transmission. You can read more about the differences between the outgoing and incoming S4 here.

Is that slight crease in the headlights enough to sell you on a new A4/S4? Or how about all that new fancy technology? I know what you’re thinking.. you want a wagon. You get your hopes up only to get what you know is (or isn’t) coming. Sorry, America. Automakers don’t trust you with all that extra cargo space.

We’ll see the new A4 up close at next week’s very cold Detroit Auto Show."

Build your own is up
https://www.audiusa.com/models/audi-...7/configurator
 
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D.T.

macrumors G4
Original poster
Sep 15, 2011
11,050
12,467
Vilano Beach, FL
The new Lexus LC 500

Very nice, something from Lexus that actually gives me a few goose bumps. My understanding is the V10 that's powering all the F variants (assuming at around 500HP) coupled with a 10-speed auto and I'm sure a spectacular interior. the RC F is ~$65K, the GS F is ~$85K, lose some doors, get a sexier exterior ... $99K?
 

2298754

Cancelled
Jun 21, 2010
4,890
941
Very nice, something from Lexus that actually gives me a few goose bumps. My understanding is the V10 that's powering all the F variants (assuming at around 500HP) coupled with a 10-speed auto and I'm sure a spectacular interior. the RC F is ~$65K, the GS F is ~$85K, lose some doors, get a sexier exterior ... $99K?
Those numbers seems reasonable to me! I think this is supposed to compete with the likes of the SL, S Class Coupe, 6 series?

Lexus has really been letting us down with powertrains recently. All of the Fs have had the same V8 for ages. If this doesn't get some sort of new powertrain, the competition will be significantly more potent.

More info coming soon!
 

FX120

macrumors 65816
May 18, 2007
1,173
235
Meh. All of Lexus' current cars are going to look like absolute **** in 5 years, none of these designs will age well.
 

Muscle Master

macrumors 6502a
Oct 15, 2010
581
113
Philadelphia

2298754

Cancelled
Jun 21, 2010
4,890
941
I'd say stay away from the Rav4 unless your city doesn't have pothole. I have an AWD XLE and the mileage is great.. so great that it's not only reason why i'm holding on to her.. aside from the questionable interior build quality... the suspension is pure garbage... should have gotten a Ford Edge

Edge and RAV4 don't compete... The Escape does. The Edge starts at where the RAV4 ends up being loaded.

And suggesting a Ford SUV over a Toyota due to "questionable build quality" is comical.
[doublepost=1452535262][/doublepost]Just watched the Lexus press conference

LC500 gets the same 467hp V8 from the ISF/RCF/GSF.

Goes on sale next year

23691247944_bcb7522cc5_o.jpg


24293298136_de1d28cac2_o.jpg


Horsepower 467 HP@7,100 (redline 7,300 rpm)
Torque 389 lb-ft@4,800
Transmission 10 speed Automatic
Seating Capacity 4
Overall Length 4,760 mm (187.4 inches)
Width 1,920 mm (75.6 inches)
Height 1,345 mm (53 inches)
Wheelbase 2,870 mm (113 inches)
Layout Front engine, Rear Wheel Drive
Fr/Rr Overhang Fr: 920 mm (36.2 inches), Rr: 970 mm (38.2 inches)
Wheel size
(front and rear) 1. 21 inches (forged aluminum - available)
2. 20 inches (forged aluminum - available)
3. 20 inches (cast aluminum - standard)
Tires size
Fr: 245/40 RF21, Rr: 275/35RF 21
Fr: 245/45 RF20, Rr: 275/40RF 20
Fr: 245/45 RF20, Rr:275/40 RF20
0 – 60 mph Under 4.5 seconds

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...gs-the-LC-LF-to-Production-as-the-2017-LC-500

DETROIT (Jan. 11, 2016) — When the Lexus LF-LC Concept debuted at the 2012 North American International Auto Show, the press, loyal customers, and enthusiasts wondered if the concept’s arresting styling and dramatic proportions could ever evolve into a production 2+2 coupe. Today, four years after the debut of the breakthrough concept that inspired it, Lexus has revealed the all-new LC 500 luxury coupe. This provocative, athletic flagship coupe makes the strongest statement yet about Lexus’ future product direction.

The past five years have seen Lexus evolve rapidly with the creation of the luxury brand’s globally-focused organization, Lexus International. Exciting new models involving elevated levels of emotional styling and dynamic driving characteristics such as NX, RC, and IS have also helped Lexus’ brand shift with consumers. Akio Toyoda has been at the center of the Lexus global expansion, personally driving a heightened level of collaboration among design, engineering and marketing teams to help build a luxury brand better suited to meet the needs of the next generation of consumers.

“The LC 500 has been an important product for Lexus and me personally,” said Akio Toyoda, Chief Branding Officer and Master Driver for Lexus. “A few years ago, we decided to guide the future of the brand with products that had more passion and distinction in the luxury market. This flagship luxury coupe’s proportions, stunning design and performance make a strong statement about our brand’s emotional direction and will grow the Lexus luxury appeal globally.”

Design and Engineering Teams United
Beyond its styling and impactful performance, the new LC 500 serves as a symbol of the achievement that can result from heightened collaboration between design and engineering groups and their commitment to help overcome each other’s hurdles. When Akio Toyoda challenged these development groups to produce this special car, it meant surpassing many manufacturing, design, material, and dynamic obstacles that could typically compromise a vehicle’s targets or design vision.

The LC 500 was driven by a strong, appealing fundamental design target (LF-LC), and engineering teams worked tirelessly to find new solutions to maintain as much of the concept in the production car as possible. Likewise, vehicle designers were very involved from the earliest stages of the dynamic development process to understand the engineering targets and collaborate with design viewpoints and potential solutions. With LC 500, additional levels of prototype vehicle build also allowed both teams to better study design or engineering ideas and refine key elements. For Lexus, the LC 500 project became much more than simply the development of a new coupe. The LC 500, with the shift in engineering processes and design ideologies it represents, symbolizes the beginning of a new phase for the Lexus brand.

“Design and engineering sides worked together on issues and obstacles that were overcome one by one. I feel we achieved something greater than simply preserving the spirit of the concept’s design,” said Chief Engineer Koji Sato.

Exterior Design
At first glance, it becomes apparent that the engineering and design team’s collaboration was highly successful, considering how much of the LF-LC’s design ideology the team was able to transfer into the new LC 500. The new production model shares many of the key design elements, proportions and visual dynamism of the concept car that inspired it. The LC 500’s visual appeal is defined by an athletic aerodynamic shape. It features sensual curves, emotional forms, an available flowing carbon-fiber roof (glass roof standard), helping create a low, wide imposing stance that comes together for a highly functional, passionate package.

The LC 500’s front fascia features a powerful interpretation of Lexus’ distinctive grille, bordered by chrome on three sides and a radical new 3D mesh design that varies its visual tension. The “L”-shaped daytime running lights rest below a new Triple LED headlamp unit, specially designed to include one of the industry’s thinnest projectors enabling a low hood with a short front overhang. Functional venting also plays into the LC 500’s exterior design to help improve aerodynamic stability and cooling. The car’s athletic profile is characterized by its fast, sloped roofline, its wind-cutting silhouette, a long 2,870 mm (113 inches) wheelbase with compact front 920 mm ( 36.2 inches) and rear 970 mm ( 38.2 inches) overhangs and low hood height. The sexy curves and flowing lines maintain a consistent tension in sheetmetal through to the rear end that features slimly designed, multi-layered tail lamps with a unique lighting effect that helps convey a sequential L motif. A rear diffuser and available active rear spoiler also help manage airflow during performance driving. It rides on machined cast aluminum 20-in. or available 21-in. forged aluminum wheels.

Interior Design
The interior design of the LC 500 is influenced by the dynamic luxury theme of the exterior with a layout that is both cockpit-focused and elegant. The coupe’s driving position was calibrated to invite spirited, sporting driving, and help develop easier confidence with a more intuitive control layout. In fact, for LC 500, the driver’s hip point was engineered to be as close as possible to the vehicle’s Cg (Center of gravity) where feedback from the car is the most communicative to the driver. The front seats offer excellent support and comfort for long drives while available sport seats offer additional bolstering and lateral support during cornering. Lexus engineers put considerable effort into creating an engaging yet seductive atmosphere for the driver, focusing on details such as the size and angle of the steering wheel, the feel and positioning of magnesium alloy paddle shifters, and available supple leather and Alcantara seating surfaces. The LC 500’s exquisite door panels, center console and dash pad structures feature elements of Lexus’ world-renowned, detail-obsessed Takumi craftsmanship in their finish.

“At an early stage, the designers collaborated with the engineers to understand their image for the LC 500’s driving dynamics, and they incorporated this into the design,” said Tadao Mori, the chief designer of the LC 500. “For example, we gave serious consideration to where the driver’s eyes would focus, and designed the surface shape in that area to help support a driver’s mindset. This project was one of the first times that designers were closely involved in the dynamic engineering development so we could understand the driving goals and support with the car’s design.”

Chassis
In helping to drive the future of the Lexus brand, the mission for LC 500 is to offer a dynamic driving experience and character unlike any Lexus vehicle prior to it. The pursuit of a sharper, more refined driving experience became the mission for the development team who also sought to maintain a superior Lexus ride quality befitting a flagship luxury sport coupe.

The LC 500 is the first Lexus to use the brand’s all-new, premium rear-wheel-drive luxury platform and is part of the new corporate global architecture for luxury vehicles (GA-L). The underpinnings of this new coupe will become the blueprint for the company’s future front-engine/rear-wheel-drive vehicles. In an effort to sharpen the car’s handling, the LC 500’s engineers focused on the platform’s fundamentals by placing most of the mass, including the engine and the occupants, in a position more centralized and lower in the chassis to improve the center of gravity.

Internally, Lexus engineers referred to this menu of mass-arranging tactics as the “inertia spec.” The driver hip and heel points have been lowered, wheels have been pushed to the corners of the car with shortened overhangs, and the drivetrain mass has been located behind the front axle line to create a front mid-ship layout. The LC 500 also relies on run-flat tires to improve packaging, reduce weight (thanks to no spare), and help shorten overhangs to achieve dynamic targets. The 12-volt battery has been relocated to the trunk as part of the mission to redistribute weight.

Other mass management measures include the available carbon fiber roof, aluminum door skins mounted to the carbon fiber door inner structure, and a composite trunk floor. The LC 500 also represents the Lexus brand’s most intensive use of high-strength steel. This provides enhanced rigidity while reducing—and ideally positioning—vehicle mass to optimize dynamics. As a result, the LC 500 is very balanced with a nearly ideal front/rear weight distribution of 52/48.

To help achieve the level of chassis performance targeted for this new coupe, Lexus engineered the stiffest unibody the brand has ever produced. For LC 500, the strategic use of lightweight, high-strength steel helps make for a high degree of torsional rigidity that is more resistant to twisting forces than the exotic, carbon fiber-intensive LFA supercar. The platform design maintains a consistent level of resistance to flexural forces and stiffness across the vehicle’s wheelbase to help create consistent, predictable handling behavior and sharper steering responses. Special braces in the engine compartment (usually a more twist-prone part of the chassis), the adoption of stiff aluminum front suspension towers, and the addition of a ring structure near the rear fenders are all measures that help further bolster the strength of key chassis structures.

Particular attention was devoted to the LC 500’s multilink suspension system. Double ball joints on the upper and lower control arms allow for control of the smallest movements from the driver inputs and road conditions. Beyond sharing workload, a dual ball joint arrangement helps optimize suspension geometry to increase wheel control and create a more precise steering response with better initial effort. To help reduce unsprung mass and improve suspension response, all but one of the control arms are made of lightweight forged aluminum. Providing the grip on the show prototype car are concept versions of Michelin Pilot Sport tires with Premium Touch® sidewall technology: 245/40RF21 up front and 275/35RF21 at the rear. When all the handling elements come together, LC 500 becomes a world-class luxury sports coupe that exhibits razor-sharp reflexes, exceptional handling balance and rock-solid stability. This all-new platform will continue to undergo continuous improvement and enhancement throughout the vehicle’s lifecycle.

Said Sato: “We spent more than triple the usual amount of R&D time to pursue linear steering and to find the sweet spot for road contact feel. We also focused our efforts on suspension rigidity and enhancing geometry. Thanks to advancements in product engineering, we are now at a world-class level for suspension rigidity, and performance when lateral g’s are applied.”

Drivetrain
The power delivery to the rear wheels for LC 500 is handled by a new, very well matched set of components that maximize output to the wheels. The heart of the new LC 500 is derived from the proven, high-revving 5.0-liter V8 that is found in the RC F and GS F. The naturally aspirated V8 was selected for its smooth, linear throttle response and emotional engine sound. The all-aluminum, 32-valve V8’s output targets 467 HP and 389 lb.-ft. of torque. The new engine is built for durability with lightweight, high-strength forged connecting rods and titanium valves that allow the engine to flourish at high rpm. This naturally aspirated engine makes an ideal pairing to a balanced sports coupe with its linear power delivery that allows easier control and exhilaration behind the wheel.

The engine in the LC 500 uses a dual intake inlet that help improve breathing and allow the engine to produce its fantastic sound. The new coupe features an active exhaust that opens baffles in Sport mode to help give the car a more aggressive exhaust note even in start-up. In fact, even when the vehicle is in Normal mode the exhaust baffles open above 3500 rpm. During acceleration, a Sound Generator involving tuned acoustic plumbing enhances the engine’s raucous melody into an aural thunder that helps distinguish the LC 500 in its competitive segment.

Helping power transfer to the rear wheels is a newly developed 10-speed automatic transmission—the first ever in a luxury automobile—with shift times rivaling those of a dual-clutch transmission. The component is smaller and lighter than some current 8-speed transmissions. The wide bandwidth of shifting afforded by 10 closely spaced gears is ideal for all forms of driving, providing an optimal gear in all conditions. This transmission is matched to a new electric control system with software that helps anticipate the driver’s inputs by monitoring acceleration, braking and lateral g forces.

The new transmission is just one key element in a vehicle that has had all of its dynamic control elements such as power application, braking, and steering tuned to operate rhythmically in sport driving conditions. Drivers will feel the controlled balance between the quick, smooth shifting actions, the application of linear engine power, and the deceleration afforded by 6-piston front brake calipers (4-piston at rear).

All of the platform and drivetrain engineering helped endow the LC 500 with performance and agility uncommon for a four-person coupe; the vehicle targets a 0 to 60 mph time of less than 4.5 seconds.

Interior Electronics
This flagship coupe will debut the 2017 Lexus Multimedia package that will feature updated, faster, more flexible software enabling future enhancements and a more inviting graphic user interface. Occupants also will be treated to an exceptional audio experience inside the cabin: in addition to the available audiophile-worthy Mark Levinson audio package, a new premium Pioneer audio system comes as standard equipment. Pioneer’s sound engineers worked in collaboration with LC 500 body and cabin designers to enhance interior sound performance within the cabin, studying the acoustic environment and driving structural changes to enhance sound performance.

The LC 500 also will boast Lexus’ renowned safety technology, Lexus Safety System + , which integrates several of Lexus's active safety technologies: an All-speed Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (All-speed DRCC) that relieves stop-and-go traffic stress, the Pre-Collision System (PCS) helps prevent and mitigate collisions; Lane Keep Assist (LKA) helps prevent vehicles from departing from their lanes; and Automatic High Beam (AHB) that helps ensure optimal forward visibility during nighttime driving.

These technologies are part of a multi-faceted approach to active safety, the Lexus Safety System + package, and combines millimeter-wave radar with a camera to help achieve a high level of system reliability and performance.
 
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puma1552

Suspended
Nov 20, 2008
5,559
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^^^hideous, as expected.

C-pillars aren't design experiments, someone needs to tell Nissan that too.

This car just has angles for the sake of having angles.

Interior looks really stuffy/stale like a waiting room from the 1970s. Might look better in black rather than peanut butter barf.

I wonder how many more cars Lexus would sell if they simply weren't hideous?
 

iLog.Genius

macrumors 601
Feb 24, 2009
4,925
479
Toronto, Ontario
^^^hideous, as expected.

C-pillars aren't design experiments, someone needs to tell Nissan that too.

This car just has angles for the sake of having angles.

Interior looks really stuffy/stale like a waiting room from the 1970s. Might look better in black rather than peanut butter barf.

I wonder how many more cars Lexus would sell if they simply weren't hideous?

I agree. Looks are subjective but I find that a lot of people just see leather surfaces everywhere and think its the beautiful interior. While the materials are good/great, I think the design is terrible. It looks like there's cubbyholes everywhere because of the angles of the panels. Maybe the colour adds to that as well.

Someone mentioned it above. While I appreciate Lexus trying to be more flashy to move away from their "just an upscaled Toyota" image, I feel this design isn't going to age well.
 

puma1552

Suspended
Nov 20, 2008
5,559
1,947
I agree. Looks are subjective but I find that a lot of people just see leather surfaces everywhere and think its the beautiful interior. While the materials are good/great, I think the design is terrible. It looks like there's cubbyholes everywhere because of the angles of the panels. Maybe the colour adds to that as well.

Someone mentioned it above. While I appreciate Lexus trying to be more flashy to move away from their "just an upscaled Toyota" image, I feel this design isn't going to age well.

I just noticed the handlebars coming out of the gauge cluster, lmfao
 

2298754

Cancelled
Jun 21, 2010
4,890
941
I just noticed the handlebars coming out of the gauge cluster, lmfao
Haha that's true.

The LFA's interior had them too.

I wonder how many more cars Lexus would sell if they simply weren't hideous?
The all-tan interior is pretty ugly. Needs some contrast.

Sales haven't been an issue for Lexus. They beat Mercedes to take the #2 spot last year and that was only two or so months with the new RX.

They never experienced a drop in sales with the predator grill. Only Acura struggles to sell non-crossover cars here.
 
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MICHAELSD

macrumors 603
Jul 13, 2008
5,484
3,494
NJ
Is it just me or have other enthusiasts lost interest in cars that aren't technologically-advanced? Lexus interior design is a nice step above Tesla, but I find myself craving a Model S. I'm even beginning to lose my Cadillac enthusiasm.
 

AustinIllini

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,699
10,567
Austin, TX
Is it just me or have other enthusiasts lost interest in cars that aren't technologically-advanced? Lexus interior design is a nice step above Tesla, but I find myself craving a Model S. I'm even beginning to lose my Cadillac enthusiasm.
Cadillac is the only company in the business that can make that lineup dull. And they do it.

The truth is, there just aren't enough enthusiasts vehicles. Teslas aren't exactly exciting either. Unless you want a relatively cookie-cutter Mustang with a v6, we enthusiasts are out of luck in the reasonable price market (and the FR-S, BRZ are essentially DOA).

And Lexus is sure nice, too bad I'm never going to own one because I don't have that level of disposable income.

Let's be honest here, the days of car enthusiasts are numbered, whether it be because of self driving cars OR because companies like Uber are going to try to end car ownership forever.
 

Blaze4G

macrumors 65816
Oct 31, 2015
1,300
1,177
^^^hideous, as expected.

C-pillars aren't design experiments, someone needs to tell Nissan that too.

This car just has angles for the sake of having angles.

Interior looks really stuffy/stale like a waiting room from the 1970s. Might look better in black rather than peanut butter barf.

I wonder how many more cars Lexus would sell if they simply weren't hideous?
Well Lexus sales has increased since they changed their design to the big grills. An increase in sales is enough to prove that the customers like the new design.
Lexus is ahead of Mercedes in sales and BMW barely beat them out. When you consider the fact that Mercedes and BMW have tons more models than Lexus, then you can really see how good Lexus is doing.

I am willing to bet Lexus will outsell BMW and Mercedes this year.
 

AustinIllini

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,699
10,567
Austin, TX
Well Lexus sales has increased since they changed their design to the big grills. An increase in sales is enough to prove that the customers like the new design.
Lexus is ahead of Mercedes in sales and BMW barely beat them out. When you consider the fact that Mercedes and BMW have tons more models than Lexus, then you can really see how good Lexus is doing.

I am willing to bet Lexus will outsell BMW and Mercedes this year.
Correlation does not imply causality. Let's be clear about one thing, there are a number of reasons Lexus's are better than they were 4 or 5 years ago. The spindle grille is not one of those things.
 
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