The Car Thread ... !

[bunnspecial]

It probably would have sold better if it offered AWD like the X-Type... I'd almost go as far to say it would have sold better if it was FWD. Put it in the market of the ES.

Unfortunately, I don't think the DEW-98 is readily adaptable to AWD, although Jaguar may have squeezed it in by now.

I was thinking about this on my way home today-while enjoying the driving experience that this platform still gives me. In 1998, it was by far and away the most advanced design in terms of suspension and drivetrain that any American maker had put forward, and I'd dare say that at least for the size class it may well have been the most advanced in the world. The IRS is phenomenal, and it was one of the first that made a serious effort in anti-dive suspension. After 12 years on the road, my car still amazes me at how flat it stays during hard braking.

Granted designs have progressed a lot in 18 years, and I'm not sure if any RWD passenger car DOESN'T have have IRS now. The newer RWD cars I've driven have superb road-hugging IRS, and most makers are working on anti-dive to varying extents(with some being near perfect and others doing really well). Granted now that it's only a Jaguar platform, they have(I think) continued to improve it and the XFs I've driven do certainly have a different feel from the S-types of driven and my trusty LS.

In any case, my general aversion to front wheel drive would kill any interest in the car for me

 

[0388631]

Sorry, IRS and anti-dive? The S Type was a rare treat to spot in the wilds of California, with most preferring the XJ. The current XJ is a sad far cry from what it once was.

 

[bunnspecial]

IRS=independent rear suspension

If you notice, most cars in the past would squat down at the front during braking, with some nearly kissing the ground under heavy braking. Anti-dive suspension does some magic to keep the car more level during braking.

On the MG forum, the comment came up the other day that the 60-0 distance of a Miata is about 2/3 that of an MGB(and both weigh about the same) with the suggestion being that there was room for improvement in the MG braking distance. Among other things(not the least of which is wider, stickier tires and ABS) the suspension in the Miata results in less weight transfer to the front wheels during heavy braking. This means that you can actually effectively brake with four wheels, or at least do more braking on the rear than in the past.

 

[2298754]

I also have to say that I think Her Royal Highness has always had excellent taste in cars, and seems to genuinely enjoy driving as well. I always come back to this photo

View attachment 644562

Cute corgis!

You are correct. She has great taste in cars

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The Royal Family have cars from Jaguar/Landrover/Bentley for free on the basis it's a cheap form of marketing for their brand and they are iconic British cars. This has been in place for decades too.

I often laugh when people criticise them for spending tax payers money on flash cars lol.

 

[daneoni]

...and they often auction/sell those cars later on for more than twice the market price.

 

[D.T.]

Spacers are here

Not sure if I'm going to wait on the springs, or install them NOW, like RIGHT NOW

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

...and they often auction/sell those cars later on for more than twice the market price.

Indeed. It's amazing what having Elizabeth Winsor in a logbook can do to the price lol.

 

[2298754]

Saw this super clean E39 M5 today. Beautiful car

Possibly the best sports sedan made

Also, saw this XJ VP at Costco

 

[bunnspecial]

Saw this super clean E39 M5 today. Beautiful car

Possibly the best sports sedan made

An E39 M5 is one of my dream cars...

I should find one before people actually start realizing what they're worth.

 

[iLog.Genius]

An E39 M5 is one of my dream cars...

I should find one before people actually start realizing what they're worth.

I think it's already too late. There's a couple of immaculate E39 M5's, one in blue and other in silver, both go for over $60k.

 

[2298754]

An E39 M5 is one of my dream cars...

I should find one before people actually start realizing what they're worth.

Too late, they're already overpriced.

 

[bunnspecial]

Too late, they're already overpriced.

Unfortunately true from what I've seen.

Still doesn't change the fact that I think it may go down as one of the best M5s of all time. I know the newer ones are faster and technologically better, but you can't beat the classic "BMW-ness" of the E39 and they're probably as fast as any any street car needs to be

I'm glad that the F10 has gone back to a V8. The E39s sound amazing, but I've yet to hear a V10 where the exhaust note wowed me. V12s are beautiful, but there's something "off" to me about a V10.

 

[0388631]

The E39 in general was a fantastic platform. A real driver's car. Last of its breed, IMO. Younger brother bought one when they first came out, had it for several years. They don't show many problems until much later in life. Borrowed it a few times and enjoyed the ride. A bit too boat like for me back in the day. Which is ironic considering I prefer large and heavy cars with big performance now. Of the E39s, BMW offered what resembled a glacier blue metallic paint. Resembling both a light sky blue and medium metallic silver. It was a gorgeous color, and I don't see many of them in such a color.

Don't think I could ever own a BMW. I don't quite fancy their interior design, and as I've said before, hold a fondness for MBZ. Well, I might love to own a restored E24 M6. Then again, who wouldn't? The more I look at the A7, the more it seems it'll be the next car after that Dad Wagon. Reminds me of those gorgeous women wearing cheongsams you used to see in old films with the high split up the thigh and a low open back to the brim of the buttocks that caused your mind to wander. I'm going to cruise the Audi dealership next weekend in light of Labor Day. I think Audi's are generally plain and garish looking, but the A7 is something else. It's the forbidden fruit from the land of Germany. I blame @AutoUnion39 for making me even look at the Audi lineup.

And before anyone wonders, yes, I did have a G&T earlier. Also going to see the MBZ dealership because they got in 53 MY2017 E-Classes last week or the week before. Reason being, the current E wagons with the big motor/better trim are sitting on lots, as are the other E-Class models simply because people are wanting the MY2017 variant with the digital dash and updated exterior. I can get wagon I want for a bit cheaper now, according to the dealer I regularly get cars from, or wait until MBZ releases the one I want. I'm not sure how I'll feel about the semi-digital dash, but either way, the current E looks stale inside. Our old E we got rid of was a W212, and we bought that many years ago. It remained unchanged for 7 years. Too long IMO.

I'm going to try out the 4 cylinder MY2017 as well for fun. I'm really curious to see how a 4 banger performs in this weight class.

Another G&T in an hour after lunch, short nap, and then relax by the pool.


Edit: Odd. According to their online inventory, it looks like they're only carrying the E300/4 cyl. What gives? I thought 2 engine choices were being released initially?

 

[2298754]

I'm going to try out the 4 cylinder MY2017 as well for fun. I'm really curious to see how a 4 banger performs in this weight class.

Edit: Odd. According to their online inventory, it looks like they're only carrying the E300/4 cyl. What gives? I thought 2 engine choices were being released initially?

I still believe that a 4 banger has no place in an E class. 6 cylinders or bust. Not worth my time.

I think the E43 (V6) and E63 are coming in a few months. It is stupid how they are launching a car with only 4 banger power.

 

[iLog.Genius]

As far as vintage/classic BMW's go, the E30 M3 and E39 M5 are highly sought after today and if you locate one, good chance it demands a large premium.

 

[2298754]

Still doesn't change the fact that I think it may go down as one of the best M5s of all time. I know the newer ones are faster and technologically better, but you can't beat the classic "BMW-ness" of the E39 and they're probably as fast as any any street car needs to be

Tbh, the E60 M5 was a fantastic car, but the V10 was horrid when it came to reliability and the styling was iffy at best. The SMG transmission was junk. It's unfortunate because the E60 was a fantastic driving car, even in non-M trim.

I do agree that the E39 will go down as one of the best M5s ever.

I'm glad that the F10 has gone back to a V8. The E39s sound amazing, but I've yet to hear a V10 where the exhaust note wowed me.

They sound cool with an exhaust on them

But the best sounding V10s have to be the Audi/Lambo V10 and 1LR-GUE in the LFA

You are right, the S63Tu in the F10 M5 is a better engine on paper.
[doublepost=1471204945][/doublepost]

I know the newer ones are faster and technologically better, but you can't beat the classic "BMW-ness" of the E39 and they're probably as

We sound like those old men who constantly complain about modern cars

That traditional "BMW-ness" is completely gone on the F-chassis cars. Unless you get an F10/F30 M model, they are pretty lackluster these days.

Jaguar, Lexus (3IS/4GS), and Cadillac finally figured out that BMW-magic in their recent crop of cars.

 

[0388631]

I think getting a BMW, barring a M3 or M4, is silly. Those two models hold value while the M5 and M6 depreciate quickly. When their entry 3, a 328i costs 38K something and with options easily goes over 52K, there is something clearly wrong there. At which point, on paper, it makes sense to go with something else. And at that price range, you may as well add another 10K and get yourself an M car.

 

[daneoni]

Thats the problem with BMW and i guess Audi. Once you go for any 'reasonable' model/engine that isn't just about the badge you're nearing an M car...even more so now that the M2 is out. Mercs are less guilty of this though.

 

[0388631]

The Japanese do the same thing. There's conservative and lame, sweet spot, and then outrageous power. Though the Germans are very conservative about their power ratings. They test in the worst of conditions. Assume your engine makes 15-40 HP more than the rated spec.

 

[iLog.Genius]

Thats the problem with BMW and i guess Audi. Once you go for any 'reasonable' model/engine that isn't just about the badge you're nearing an M car...even more so now that the M2 is out. Mercs are less guilty of this though.

You're not wrong but that's a very simplistic view and doesn't reflect the real-world buyer because there's so many variables to consider, too long to relay in a forum. But for example, going from 35i/40i to M car is a significant difference, mainly the suspension set up. It doesn't matter if you set a M car to comfort, it's still noticeably stiffer than a 35i/40i in sport+ mode. That alone would deter a lot of people from buying a fully loaded volume BMW to a comparable priced M car. Another reason would be cost of ownership. The difference isn't a lot, but you do pay more to maintain a M car than a volume model because the parts (incl. oil) cost more.

 

[0388631]

You're not wrong but that's a very simplistic view and doesn't reflect the real-world buyer because there's so many variables to consider, too long to relay in a forum. But for example, going from 35i/40i to M car is a significant difference, mainly the suspension set up. It doesn't matter if you set a M car to comfort, it's still noticeably stiffer than a 35i/40i in sport+ mode. That alone would deter a lot of people from buying a fully loaded volume BMW to a comparable priced M car. Another reason would be cost of ownership. The difference isn't a lot, but you do pay more to maintain a M car than a volume model because the parts (incl. oil) cost more.

It should be assumed that if you're purchasing or leasing a premium car, then you're going to pay a premium, regardless of what type of car it is in the end. From reports I've read, the M3 in comfort mode is quite nice to drive, unlike the stiffer and bone rattling M4 in comfort mode. Having said that, the question was that if someone is purchasing or leasing a 328i, an entry model BMW, that will have roughly the same expenses and a 340i, why not spare the extra money and go with an M, even if it does have a stiffer ride? Because down the line, the M4 or M3 will hold quite a bits of its value, and if you choose the DCT, it's one of the best in the business, apart from Audi/Porsche's efforts.

 

[iLog.Genius]

Having said that, the question was that if someone is purchasing or leasing a 328i, an entry model BMW, that will have roughly the same expenses and a 340i, why not spare the extra money and go with an M, even if it does have a stiffer ride? Because down the line, the M4 or M3 will hold quite a bits of its value, and if you choose the DCT, it's one of the best in the business, apart from Audi/Porsche's efforts.

Priorities and what you value more. It's easy to say, well if a 328i/340i is $5-10k less than a M3, why not just get the M3?

Performance. As a car enthusiast, I hate to say this but no one needs a 420-440HP M3 in North America as a daily driver. If you think you do, you really don't know what you want. Other than potential track work, the power and torque the M3 puts out is overkill for the speed limits and roads in North America. This is strictly a need vs. want. The average consumer doesn't need 420HP and 400 ft/lb of torque.

Cost of ownership. As mentioned before, depending on what needs replacing and maintaining, M cars cost more. Insurance, you can bet you're paying more for the M car as well.

Price. $5,000 or $10,000 is still $5,000 or $10,000 no matter how much of a bargain it is to go from volume model to M car. If I don't need the performance of a M car, why would I spend additional money today just so I can say the resale value would be better later?

Everyone loves to label drivers badge whore/snobs (I'm sure they do exist) but buying a M car when you don't need it would also be considered badge snobbery. As much as I love the M3/M4, I wouldn't buy one even though I could afford one today because I don't need everything that comes with it and would never come close to extracting it's potential. I also have a R56 MINI as a second car with 120HP and 120 ft/lb and not once did I ever say I need more power or torque. It's not the most exciting surge that people want, but I can get in and out of traffic without no problem.

That's not to say no one should buy a M car but at the same time, no one should be looking down and labelling someone a badge whore because they don't drive a 35i/40i BMW. I've driven many BMW's and not always top trim. Not only do I feel comfortable driving 323i or a 528i, I can guarantee that I know more about the car than some average joe driving in a 335i or 550i in the other lane.

I will say this, the F30 320i with manual transmission and RWD is the BMW to buy. Sure, it's missing the straight-six but everything else is traditional BMW. You get the closest to a bare-bones car without all the bells and whistles for under $40k. Get a tune and do your own suspension upgrade and depending on which route you take, you could still be under $40k or just a bit over.

 

[0388631]

Because the 320i is akin to the old E30s, albeit heavier. The issue with your post is that one could just get a top level 3 series without going M. May cost a bit more, but you're getting more for your money's worth up front. I can't speak about Canada, but insurance is much cheaper in the US than it is in Canada. And power... Personally, I don't tell people what they need in a car and what they don't need. While the M3 is suited to the track with its power rating, so is the M5 and just about any car above 250 HP, but as you can see, the market for more power is constant. Which means if I want to buy a 580 HP wagon, that's my right to do so.

 

[iLog.Genius]

Because the 320i is akin to the old E30s, albeit heavier. The issue with your post is that one could just get a top level 3 series without going M. May cost a bit more, but you're getting more for your money's worth up front. I can't speak about Canada, but insurance is much cheaper in the US than it is in Canada. And power... Personally, I don't tell people what they need in a car and what they don't need. While the M3 is suited to the track with its power rating, so is the M5 and just about any car above 250 HP, but as you can see, the market for more power is constant. Which means if I want to buy a 580 HP wagon, that's my right to do so.

It's all relative and not specifically speaking about volume BMW to M car. The argument for not wanting to go up to a BMW M3 from a 340i can be applied to someone not wanting to go to a 340i from a 320i/328i - it all depends on what the person wants/looks for in a car and not only about price. If you think BMW M is the only logical choice, that's perfectly fine but one person's preference is going to be widely different than another from paint colour, to leather choice, to options, to performance, price, etc. which is why I originally stated it's a very narrow and simplistic view to say someone should just get a M3 if a 328i or 340i is close in price because there are so many variables that come into play for the average consumer. If you're an enthusiast and have unlimited funds, yeah the no brainer would be get the M car but even then, the M3 might be too extreme and that person might settle for a 340i. Go into any wealth neighbourhood, it's not always the best cars lined up on the drive way.