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bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,353
6,496
Kentucky
"Manumatics" are indeed pretty standard now. My 2004 LS(which was intended to be a "sporty" sedan) allows you to enable it by smacking the gear stick right when it's in drive. Once over there, pushing forward upshifts and pulling back downshifts.

Even my mom's boring Buick has a manumatic mode, although it's a rocker switch on the gear shift.

On thing I do like about the Lincoln is that it pretty much lets you take full control. It does have a few intentional "quirks"-you can't start from higher than 3rd gear, and coming to a complete stop in 4th or 5th gear will cause it to automatically downshift to 1st. Aside from that, it will do what you tell it to-the only gear shift it won't allow is a downshift that would redline the engine. I've never had it forbid an upshift(something that other cars will do) and if you hit the red line you just bounce off the rev limiter rather than the computer upshifting.

I've driven MANY column shift Fords through the mountains-everything from Town Cars to minibuses on an E450 chassis. Particularly on the E350s, you have to save your brakes for the times you really need them. I would always just push the button at the end of the gear stick, which turned overdrive off and thus downshift to 3rd(on the 4 speed trans) to give you some engine braking. You could even push the lever down another notch to 2nd if need be. Engine braking on an automatic is nowhere near as efficient as it is on a manual, but like I said if you have a heavy vehicle that's full of people it can make the difference between whether or not you even have any brakes at the bottom of the hill.

Despite its detractors, I also rather liked the now-gone Jaguar J-gate. If, for example, you had the car in drive, wanted to pass someone on the interstate, and the transmission didn't respond fast enough you'd just push the stick over and get an immediate downshift. I never moved much beyond doing that, although the J-gate did make it relatively easy to row through the gears yourself.
 

0388631

Cancelled
Sep 10, 2009
9,669
10,823
Just to clarify, because you lost me in that post, when you say manumatics are you referring to the current method of auto transmissions or DCT/PDK/MCT/DSG but for the purposes of simplification, a dual clutch? Much like traditional autos, there are a variety of dual clutches out there. Hard to label them all as sublime without experiencing all of them. The PDK made by ZF is said to be the best in the industry apart from Ferrari's application. Outside of our little circle of discussion, the only complaints I've heard about DCT tech was aimed at earlier DSGs and Ford's version which were and are utter ****, respectively to each. I think at somepoint in the far future, the tech will be there and reliability will improve among brands who spec their trannies out through a third party. Because with the news of Honda doing an 11 speed auto, it's getting ridiculous.

Having test driven a few cars with DCTs, the only complaint I have is the sudden slowdown if in a lower gear and you let off the accelerator. It isn't like a regular auto, and the sensation is incredibly strange. My initial reaction to it was to look at the salesmen and ask if the engine just went kaput on us. Not sure if bad applications of a DCT are similar. I had an interesting PM exchange with @AutoUnion39 regarding Audi's flip flop of DCT vs auto trannies and neither one of us could figure out Audi's game, or he has and is keeping it a secret.

Old style shifter gates were awesome. The very old Mercs had a nice shift gate that was akin to a puzzle. Those were pleasing to look at and fiddle with. It was a sad day when manufacturers stopped using those types of gates.
 

Alphazoid

macrumors 65816
Dec 5, 2014
1,011
862
Just to clarify, because you lost me in that post, when you say manumatics are you referring to the current method of auto transmissions or DCT/PDK/MCT/DSG but for the purposes of simplification, a dual clutch? Much like traditional autos, there are a variety of dual clutches out there.

Think he means the prevalent trend of an auto with manual shifting

s-l300.jpg


I never use these. I'd prefer paddle shifters.

Its is funny that in today's automotive world there are about 3 main transmissions that power majority of vehicles. ZF DCT, DSG, and 6-9 speed Autos.

And regular manual of course but those are becoming rarer if you spend more than 19k on a car

I like the DSG and Toyota's trannies, i despise Honda's. Never driven a ZF as far as I'm aware.
 
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D.T.

macrumors G4
Original poster
Sep 15, 2011
11,050
12,467
Vilano Beach, FL
Having test driven a few cars with DCTs, the only complaint I have is the sudden slowdown if in a lower gear and you let off the accelerator. It isn't like a regular auto, and the sensation is incredibly strange.

It's not like an auto, it's like a manual - because it effectively _is_ a manual, just without a clutch pedal, i.e., it retains clutches, pressure plates, direct connection between the engine and drivetrain, just like a car with 3 pedals. Otherwise, it's an automatic transmission with some switches to force a gear selection, i.e., it has a torque converter, planetary gears, etc.
 

0388631

Cancelled
Sep 10, 2009
9,669
10,823
That was implemented to reduce gate size and swap out 1, 2, and 3 on a 5 speed auto. The first car I remember seeing it on was the E46 330 sixteen years ago. Then I saw it on the 1IS. It then began popping up in a lot of cars. As I said, it's simpler to move the shifter over and quickly tap it back and forth to manipulate gears when driving down a steep road. Some cars will override the setting if the RPMs get too high. Certain 2IS and 3IS do it. I believe the F Sport trim levels will hold the gear but computer won't let it redline much.
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It's not like an auto, it's like a manual - because it effectively _is_ a manual, just without a clutch pedal, i.e., it retains clutches, pressure plates, direct connection between the engine and drivetrain, just like a car with 3 pedals. Otherwise, it's an automatic transmission with some switches to force a gear selection, i.e., it has a torque converter, planetary gears, etc.
Yes, I know that now. I didn't at the time. This was five years ago when the term DCT was foreign with most car buyers because previously only high end exotics had it. They're very fun though.
 

2298754

Cancelled
Jun 21, 2010
4,890
941
Lower and wider ... in progress ... :cool:

Why do you always forget RULE #1?

PICTURES! PICTURES! PICTURES!
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The Venza is/was a weird beast. It was supposed to be marketed towards young active parents (~30 YO's) cross shopping Subaru Outbacks. That failed so they tried to market it to the 55+ active community types. I think it did better there. I never thought it made sense in the lineup as the cost was much less than the highlander and it was kind of a modified RX interior.

They looked much better with some mods

toyota-venza-black.jpg


2009-toyota-venza-sportlux+_8_.jpg

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Get a Murano convertible. It's all the rage in America.
I prefer the Range Rover Evoque convertible myself

92146007-large_trans++3sIgiMnNg0iVZeb6OF1HsJgW5C03m9DIxoQVKLo0CSU.jpg


evoquecab-014.jpg


2017-range-rover-evoque-convertible-launch-04.jpg
 

D.T.

macrumors G4
Original poster
Sep 15, 2011
11,050
12,467
Vilano Beach, FL
Why do you always forget RULE #1?

PICTURES! PICTURES! PICTURES!

Oh yeah, I suck ... :D I'll do a before (plenty of pics already) and after (will shoot the same angle!)

It's amazing how a small change in ride height (umm, the "stance" in hip car parlance :D) makes such a huge visual impact. When I had my S, the difference between my car (coilovers, 18" wheels) and a stock car (higher ride height, 17") made it look like two totally different models.

The handling effect should be pretty outstanding too, it's just a _touch_ floaty, and I'm a big fan of linear springs (vs. the typical OEM progressive setups).
 
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2298754

Cancelled
Jun 21, 2010
4,890
941
The current generation of ZF transmissions (excluding the faulty 9-Speed) are amazing and if you get a car company that knows how to tune and program it properly, it's so damn quick and smooth.
I don't think there's a bad calibration for that transmission.

Audi, BMW, and JLR all seem to do a great job with it.

Haven't driven a recent FCA products with it, but I'm sure they've found a way to screw things up.
 
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bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,353
6,496
Kentucky
Alright, so not to totally change the subject my dad called me yesterday because he'd bought a new car.

He actually bought the car that I told him he should go look at when they came on the market 7 or 8 years ago, but anyway he finally came around and listened to my advice :)

He picked up a 2015 Lincoln MKS. Anyone who's read many of my posts here will know of my affinity for Lincolns that was quite honestly inherited across a couple of generations. I haven't physically seen the car, but it's a pretty well loaded model with the 3.7 NA V6(not the 3.5 Ecoboost, which he didn't want). The only feature I can tell that it's really missing is the sunroof, which he was initially disappointed but then when I asked him how many times he's opened the one on his current car(he couldn't remember, but could probably count on one hand missing a few fingers) as well as some of his past leaking problems that pretty well turned into a selling point :)

I'm excited to see and drive it. Even if it drives the wrong wheels(most of the time), I think it should be a nice driving car. My dad certainly is nuts about it. It's dark gray with a black interior, and at least in the dealer's photos looks really sharp. BTW, it is AWD, but as I understand the Ford system it's MOSTLY front wheel drive with about an 80/20 bias when the rear wheels do kick in.

That also leaves me on the hook for the "deal I can't refuse" on the 2010 MKZ. Neither my LS or my MG are going anywhere, but for a 26,000 mile car on which I know the full history, I can't really pass it up for the price my dad is offering it to me for-especially considering that my LS is starting to rack up some serious miles on it.
 
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0388631

Cancelled
Sep 10, 2009
9,669
10,823
I prefer the Range Rover Evoque convertible myself

Oh sweet jesus I hadn't seen that yet. Who comes up with these designs? The bean counters or the bong addicts in the design department?
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I don't think there's a bad calibration for that transmission.

Audi, BMW, and JLR all seem to do a great job with it.

Haven't driven a recent FCA products with it, but I'm sure they've found a way to screw things up.
I can't quite comment on the validity of this claim, but I've been told aside from ZF calibrating the ZF9 for these manufacturers, ones looking to save money also request subpar quality parts in their transmission. Which when you think about it, isn't all that too foreign a concept for FCA.
 

2298754

Cancelled
Jun 21, 2010
4,890
941
I can't quite comment on the validity of this claim, but I've been told aside from ZF calibrating the ZF9 for these manufacturers, ones looking to save money also request subpar quality parts in their transmission. Which when you think about it, isn't all that too foreign a concept for FCA.

Oops. I meant the ZF8. Not the crap ZF9 AT. I'm sure FCA has ruined the ZF8 in their cars too.
 

D.T.

macrumors G4
Original poster
Sep 15, 2011
11,050
12,467
Vilano Beach, FL

Yeah, it's pretty terrific. The ride is also perfect, takes rough roads about the same the OEM springs, but way more settled and predictable in turns. These were designed specifically for use with the Perf Pack shocks and swaybars.
 

iLog.Genius

macrumors 601
Feb 24, 2009
4,925
479
Toronto, Ontario
I don't think there's a bad calibration for that transmission.

Audi, BMW, and JLR all seem to do a great job with it.

Haven't driven a recent FCA products with it, but I'm sure they've found a way to screw things up.

I forgot which car that was reviewed but it wasn't calibrated correctly because they compared it to the ZF in the F30 320i and it paled in comparison. Going to search YouTube for that video.
 

2298754

Cancelled
Jun 21, 2010
4,890
941
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-jaguar-f-pace-s-first-edition-test-review

2017 Jaguar F-Pace S First Edition

2017-jaguar-f-pace-s-first-edition-test-review-car-and-driver-photo-669852-s-original.jpg


Highs:
Restrained and stylish aluminum bodywork, spacious rear seat, Porsche Macan GTS–equaling braking and cornering performance.

Lows:
Disappointing fuel economy, aloof brake-pedal action.

The zero-to-60-mph romp consumed 5.3 seconds, matching the number set by the 2015 BMW X3 xDrive35i we tested and putting an 0.6-second smackdown on the 2016 Mercedes-Benz GLC300. We expect the upcoming 2017 Mercedes-AMG GLC43 to present more of a challenge. The Porsche Macan, however, fries the bacon of all three crossovers, with our test of a 2017 Porsche Macan GTS clocking the measure in 4.4 seconds. Quarter-mile times fit in a similar hierarchy, with the F-Pace S’s 13.9-second time matching the BMW X3’s, while the GLC300 trails at 14.7 seconds and the Macan GTS again leads with a speedy 13.1-second run.

Given our concern that the brake pedal felt soft and ambiguous during our first drive, we were mildly surprised to find that the F-Pace S, at 160 feet and aided by its grippy Pirelli P Zero summer tires, is right up there with the best-stopping vehicles in its class, outbraking all but the Macan GTS in our 70-to-zero-mph test. And even the Porsche just barely bettered it with a 157-foot result. The Jaguar’s pedal action is still about as predictable as Gary Busey, but now we have proof that it’s actually doing the job well.

It's crazy how the less powerful Macan GTS completely destroys the car when it comes to performance times.

F-Pace S/Macan GTS

0-60: 5.3s/4.4s
Qtr mile: 13.9s/13.1s
Braking: 160ft/157ft
 

bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,353
6,496
Kentucky
The Jaguar doesn't anymore either!!

In reality, nothing matches the Lanos though.

You have to get the flowered seat covers and have them properly "blessed" to match the Lanos, though :)

Also, you need the pink red carbon fiber-look shift knob and pedal covers.

And yes, when you've built a brand reputation on using those two products, don't drop it for heaven's sake! That's especially true with the Connolly leather-I know there's truly no inherently superiority in it anymore, but to me it's synonymous with Jaguar, Rolls-Royce, and Bentley. Granted a lot of "new" Jag buyers probably don't know that...

Also, I know that there's a shift away from using deeply figured woods, but still burl walnut is-again-so closely tied to Jaguar in my mind.
 

0388631

Cancelled
Sep 10, 2009
9,669
10,823
Reminds me. I drove an old Rolls Royce, I believe a Corniche, in mint condition, back in October. I was quite surprised at how plush and soft the original leather was. Land yacht of course.
 

bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,353
6,496
Kentucky
Well cared for Connolly leather with a regular treatment of hide food stays wonderful for ages.

Honestly, I was just thinking today about how really I think car leather quality(where it's even used) has gone down somewhat, but then it's also become a lot more widespread.

Older leather seats, whether you're talking Connolly on a Jag or Rolls, or even Bridge of Weir in Lincolns are truly a treat to sit on.

Unfortunately, I've seen some Jags and Rollses with REALLY neglected leather in them. If it's not too far gone, several treatments with Hide Food can bring it back but it takes a fair bit of work.
 

iLog.Genius

macrumors 601
Feb 24, 2009
4,925
479
Toronto, Ontario
Unfortunately, I've seen some Jags and Rollses with REALLY neglected leather in them. If it's not too far gone, several treatments with Hide Food can bring it back but it takes a fair bit of work.

That's why I don't really care for leather because you pay a premium and eventually it deteriorates no matter what (drivers seat). You can delay the aging and deterioration, but eventually it wears out. I'm a clean freak where I almost clean my car every weekend, treat the interior with leather care products but you just can't stop the wear/tear.
 

daneoni

macrumors G4
Mar 24, 2006
11,844
1,579
That's why I don't really care for leather because you pay a premium and eventually it deteriorates no matter what (drivers seat). You can delay the aging and deterioration, but eventually it wears out. I'm a clean freak where I almost clean my car every weekend, treat the interior with leather care products but you just can't stop the wear/tear.

Yep. Its even worse if its a bright coloured version.

I'm slowly talking myself into moving on to alcantara. Just vacuum and brush and you're done. And it doesn't fry or freeze you during extreme temperatures.
 
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