Nice ride. I'm sure cruising with the top down on a sunny Florida day is very enjoyable.
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The Car Thread ... !
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Sweet ride. But I see you haven't finished the Daewoo E-TEC engine swap yet.
Your DCoA membership will be revoked if its not done by our next annual meeting.
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It's coming.
They also said they were never going to make a manual to the 4.0L engine and look what happened with the 911R.
The GT2 is coming and will be a monster!
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...-will-increase-the-efficiency-of-future-cars/
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Thanks.
It's especially fantastic in the fall, most of winter and the spring. October through December we also get a big drop in humidity
Even on cold days, top down, windows up, heat and seat heaters on ... fun !I've got to get my car up to my lead Daewoo engineer in Minnesota ...
The thought crossed my mind after I posted but I also considered it being a wrap, mostly because the wrap would be a couple thousand cheaper than the exclusive paint. If I hadn't looked at the S6 and S7 so much online I would have probably not known the difference since Audi's relatively bland with certain cars. Also, no one really drives a bright blue car like that here in California. We're not that eccentric, so you tend to spot a car in that color from a quarter mile away.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...ng-camaro-inventory-ballooned-129-day-supply/
With Chevrolet Camaro Sales Plunging, Camaro Inventory Has Ballooned To A 129-Day Supply
Another miss by GM... it's a shame because it's a great driving car, but GM is never able to figure out the complete package. All recent Cadillacs suffer from this.
With Chevrolet Camaro Sales Plunging, Camaro Inventory Has Ballooned To A 129-Day Supply
Another miss by GM... it's a shame because it's a great driving car, but GM is never able to figure out the complete package. All recent Cadillacs suffer from this.
Yep, it's a pretty big whiff too. The driving dynamics are good (I've actually driven a 2SS manual, it was right at $49K, very solid), and vs. its major competitor (the Mustang), it performs a bit better (outside of the GT350), but it's bit more expensive, the looks [especially compared to the 5th gen] are "I guess it's a little better, but it's still more of the same which was only just OK" and the interior is a whole bunch of WTF design languages mangled together.
I'm also surprised at the, let's call it, "positive mindshare" the Mustang has, people just seem to love 'em, and that's not "car guys" (or gals
), I'm talking regular, non-car people. I can't tell you how many people were 'meh' over a Camaro vs. enthusiastic when I mentioned the Mustang.I'm not a "Ford guy", but they really knocked it out of the park (staying with the baseball metaphors
), and with MY18 looking like a weight reduction, a power bump, the re-introduction of the Mach I with some GT350 running gear [MRC] and even more power [5.2L CPC?] ... and speaking of, the GT350 being so successful there's now talk of another year of production - and then, the 5.xL TT GT500 waiting to eat every other domestic for breakfast, I don't see them losing this momentum.I also just read that GM is having issues with the 10 speed automatic, from folks in the know it's cooling related when packed into a ZL1 (that already has 11 coolers), so the ZL1 with an auto won't be available until sometime in 2017 (the manual coupes shipping later this year). The Z06 has cooling issues too, even with the A8, there's some kind of engineering change on deck, and talk about softening the autos to reduce thermal stress.
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Missed this one in that previous batch, a little full frontal (post suspension work)
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Yep, it's a pretty big whiff too. The driving dynamics are good (I've actually driven a 2SS manual, it was right at $49K, very solid), and vs. its major competitor (the Mustang), it performs a bit better (outside of the GT350), but it's bit more expensive, the looks [especially compared to the 5th gen] are "I guess it's a little better, but it's still more of the same which was only just OK" and the interior is a whole bunch of WTF design languages mangled together.
I'm also surprised at the, let's call it, "positive mindshare" the Mustang has, people just seem to love 'em, and that's not "car guys" (or gals
And the Mustang looks like the previous gen Mustang smashed together with the Fusion.
I really don't get why the Camaro gets flack for it's evolutionary redesign from the 5th gen, but the Mustang doesn't.... But what I really think harmed the 6th gen Camaro when it comes to looks is the 2014 refresh. Without the refresh, the 5th gen and 6th gen are definitely more differentiated.
Definitely feel like the refresh gave away too much of the 6th gen's design. I like the S550's design too over the previous gen. I just don't get why the Camaro's and Mustang's redesign gets such a different reaction when they are both evolutionary from the previous generation. I think the GT350 is helping the Mustang a lot in terms of halo effect. It's an awesome vehicle. The Camaro doesn't have such a model that makes it feel special despite being better the car performance wise. Also can't discount Ford's marketing of the EcoBoost engine helping too.
I posted my thoughts on the Mustang GT( both with the auto and stick with PP) a few pages back. It drives well and probably drives well enough for most people on the streets. The Camaro though is definitely more precise and that is what I want in a vehicle. The only way I would have been in a 5th gen Camaro SS was due to its looks. I was not impressed by how it drove( floaty, heavy, etc). The 6th gen looks awesome and drives awesome. I can't wait to order my Camaro 2SS in February/March.
I also think GM is shifting the structure of their performance cars. With the C8 Corvette going mid-engine and will end up being the only Corvette remaining in the lineup and probably going to be starting around $80K, I think GM is shifting the Camaro( at least the SS) to be where the C7 Corvette stands now being the affordable sports car for the masses. I don't think they are happy with the current 6th gen sales and didn't expect such a huge dropoff in sales due to the price increase, but they are easing the Camaro into a higher price bracket. I don't think the Mustang will be able to remain cheap for much longer either.
It's not that you don't get it, it's that you are in a very small minority that disagrees, which is part of the reason for the dismal sales.
Here's the thing, if I thought the Camaro was a more interesting design, or that the small _stock_ performance difference mattered, I'd go buy one. It's that simple, I made a very informed choice, I've got years of perspective, from track driving, owning a number of high performance vehicles, including multiple Vettes. Seems like many people are making the same choice (or not making a choice, as the case may be given the sales)
Hopefully you'll get your Camaro next year, the discounts should be massive by then, plus get the perk of being defensive about a car you actually own
It's not that you don't get it, it's that you are in a very small minority that disagrees, which is part of the reason for the dismal sales.
Here's the thing, if I thought the Camaro was a more interesting design, or that the small _stock_ performance difference mattered, I'd go buy one. It's that simple, I made a very informed choice, I've got years of perspective, from track driving, owning a number of high performance vehicles, including multiple Vettes. Seems like many people are making the same choice (or not making a choice, as the case may be given the sales)
Hopefully you'll get your Camaro next year, the discounts should be massive by then, plus get the perk of being defensive about a car you actually own
That's fine. I don't care you chose Mustang over Camaro as everyone has their own preferences. Like I said, the Mustang GT drove great and I probably will never appreciate the Camaro's abilities on the street( I don't intend to track it), but I do prefer the Camaro's looks, interior, and how it drives. The Mustang's steering is numb with no feel. The weight of the steering was ok, but would probably want it heavier in sport mode than it is. The Mustang GT doesn't feel precise. But that is how I always broke down the differences. The Mustang is a cruiser with sportiness and the Camaro is a sports coupe. Most Americans will probably choose the cruiser with sportiness especially if it is cheaper.
I just don't get the difference of opinion between the evolutionary redesigns of both cars. It's fine if you prefer the Mustang's design over the Camaro's, again personal preference. But to say the 6th gen looks just like the 5th gen, but not make the same criticism to the Mustang is a bit.... confusing?
Oh well.... We all got to defend our cars to the best looking car out there.... the Daewoo Lanos!
The Camaro looks great exteriorly but the interior (american interiors in general) leaves a lot to be desired.
Its just so...dull and impractical. Why place the vents in front of the shifter for it to blow on my tummy or crotch. And that door handle is something i'd still be stuttering with 12 months down the line. Steering is ugly too. Gauges are cluttered. Its just a mess and screams 'cobbled together'
A lot of American manufacturers seem to only care about the numbers/performance and neglect a very vital part where you spend all of your time. The cabin.
The mustang interior feels much more upmarket and considered despite the plastics galore.
If I were to buy or rent one it'd be the Mustang. Easy.
Its just so...dull and impractical. Why place the vents in front of the shifter for it to blow on my tummy or crotch. And that door handle is something i'd still be stuttering with 12 months down the line. Steering is ugly too. Gauges are cluttered. Its just a mess and screams 'cobbled together'
A lot of American manufacturers seem to only care about the numbers/performance and neglect a very vital part where you spend all of your time. The cabin.
The mustang interior feels much more upmarket and considered despite the plastics galore.
If I were to buy or rent one it'd be the Mustang. Easy.
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The Camaro's interior I find to be cleaner looking than the Mustang's. For what you don't like about the Camaro's interior, I like. The steering wheel has good grips and the vents I haven't found to be an issue on my test drive since you can still angle them up so you can have the AC blow in your face if you desire, etc. I find the Mustang's interior to be too busy with the switches, buttons, etc. I don't like the dash popping up on the passenger side dashboard. Material quality is about equal. If the Camaro's interior for me was trash, it would push me into the Mustang because either way I would have fun driving either V8 powered cars and as much as I find the Camaro to be the better driving vehicle, you still got to live with the interior of the car. About the only thing I don't like about the interior of the Camaro is how high up the instrument cluster design goes.
Like I said, different preferences.
I know styling is subjective, but between the two, I just don't see how the Camaro's interior is cleaner than the Mustangs. The Camaro's interior looks way too busy because of all the different shapes and buttons/vents put closely together.
I like the shape of the dash, there is just one row of buttons for the HVAC and a few on the screen for the radio, etc. It's not a sea of buttons and switches like the Mustang is. I like the uniform look of the dash vs the aluminum trim and the mimicking passenger side with that thing that sticks up to mirror the driver side. Can't really describe really. Also think it looks better in person than a CG photo.
Yeah, it's like 3 or 4 different design languages tossed into the same car, odd asymmetry, floating shapes, weird angles. I mean, I applaud the attempt at something new, but it still has to follow some basic design patterns.
Yeah, it's a general shortcoming, outside of more "luxury" marques. I cross shopped an F80 M convertible, the extra money buys you a really nice interior, a little better this and that, but it's not worth _twice_ the price (literally 2X for roughly the same equipment). Plus I have more of an affinity toward domestics (at least vs. BMW).
The Mustang interior is pretty good, there's some decent plastics (I mean, even our Lexus and BMWs had some), and some crappy-ish (these tend to be the more modular pieces). There's also a touch too much shiny, some of it works well, some of it I could do without (investigating some options for that right now). The basic layout, including the "dash popping up on the passenger side" is 1) to provide a nice symmetry, and 2) it's a call back to the '64, it's a nice mix of modern and retro.
One not very well known option is the Premier interior, some folks get it since it's available in red, but it's also available in black (just like the regular interior), it's super inexpensive, and it changes the seat and dash material, has real stitching, adds color matched door inserts (for red), and the upper door surface is "soft touch", it's a total no brainer for the price.
If anything, that's the problem with the Camaro interior, it's noisy, there's so much happening, there's no lines, it's all irregular and looks tacked on.
The digital dash however, is +fantastic+, the S650 (7th gen Mustang) will have it as well, not sure if the S550.5 will have it (I do know there's weight, power enhancements on deck for MY18)
I think @DT hit the nail on the head with the Camero interior having too many "design languages" going on.
I was in a Malibu or Impala rental a while back. There was such a hodgepodge of materials and designs it was nauseating.
I think the Camero interior could be onto something interesting if it gets ironed out. There's aspects that in themselves are fine but don't entirely mesh together. There's a lot of abstract boxy/angular lines- the binnacle, the bottom of the steering wheel, the nav screen surround, the horizontal lines... But then there's all these pefect circle components- the propeller-like vents, gear shifter, shifter surround, steering wheel center, gauge outlines, etc.
Then you have this sweeping door skin that comes out of nowhere that doesn't seem to line up with the angularity of the dashboard. The metal door insert and door handles don't seem to really match up design wise with the rest of the interior.
Actually the weirdest thing that sticks out are those "bolsters" on the sides of the center console vents.
I give them credit for going with a very unique concept but again, it needs some continuity.
I was in a Malibu or Impala rental a while back. There was such a hodgepodge of materials and designs it was nauseating.
I think the Camero interior could be onto something interesting if it gets ironed out. There's aspects that in themselves are fine but don't entirely mesh together. There's a lot of abstract boxy/angular lines- the binnacle, the bottom of the steering wheel, the nav screen surround, the horizontal lines... But then there's all these pefect circle components- the propeller-like vents, gear shifter, shifter surround, steering wheel center, gauge outlines, etc.
Then you have this sweeping door skin that comes out of nowhere that doesn't seem to line up with the angularity of the dashboard. The metal door insert and door handles don't seem to really match up design wise with the rest of the interior.
Actually the weirdest thing that sticks out are those "bolsters" on the sides of the center console vents.
I give them credit for going with a very unique concept but again, it needs some continuity.
American cars sell. GM, primarily Chevy within, has issues. Chevy North America has a history of jerking customers around. Dealerships often hire incompetent individuals, with some seeming like nonces who were given the job out of pity because no one else would hire 'em, and absolutely rude salespeople. Apart from general rudeness and hiring schmucks, GM can't get a handle on their affiliates/dealers and how they sell cars. Ring a bloody ding ding, it isn't only the Camaro with a surplus. It's a lot of Chevy's. So much so, that the dealers near me have been writing off 10K MSRP on the regular even on larger SUVs just to get them off the lot. And they're still pricks to their customers.
At the dealership level, be it a high performing or low performing one, you could roll up in an F10 M5 or even a S550, or hell, a Bentley Continental GT, ask to take a ZL1 or higher trim for a test drive, and they'd probably want a deposit, and shoot the **** for 6 hours before they let you drive it. They'll probably draw a gun on you if you even get near a Corvette. Good Lord.
I took a trip to an Audi dealership yesterday. A tribute to AutoUnion's incessant rantings of how good Audis are. I told the receptionist I wasn't buying, just looking. I didn't have trouble getting a few test drives in before dinner. Though I'll admit I was quite taken to the S6 despite its weight and understeer. Maybe this is why the American car market has been utter garbage in the last few years post recession. There's some weird, hidden borderline backwoods school of thought with them that if they treat their customers badly, they'll still succeed. Though GM is to blame more than the others. You'll never have trouble getting a test drive in a Mustang GT.
American car interiors in this price range are where the Japanese (Toyota, Honda, Mazda) were in the early 2000s. Pitiful.
At the dealership level, be it a high performing or low performing one, you could roll up in an F10 M5 or even a S550, or hell, a Bentley Continental GT, ask to take a ZL1 or higher trim for a test drive, and they'd probably want a deposit, and shoot the **** for 6 hours before they let you drive it. They'll probably draw a gun on you if you even get near a Corvette. Good Lord.
I took a trip to an Audi dealership yesterday. A tribute to AutoUnion's incessant rantings of how good Audis are. I told the receptionist I wasn't buying, just looking. I didn't have trouble getting a few test drives in before dinner. Though I'll admit I was quite taken to the S6 despite its weight and understeer. Maybe this is why the American car market has been utter garbage in the last few years post recession. There's some weird, hidden borderline backwoods school of thought with them that if they treat their customers badly, they'll still succeed. Though GM is to blame more than the others. You'll never have trouble getting a test drive in a Mustang GT.
American car interiors in this price range are where the Japanese (Toyota, Honda, Mazda) were in the early 2000s. Pitiful.
http://www.herbchambersmaserati.com...oston-ma-20d43f6e0a0e08be38633eec53cb279a.htm
It's crazy how a one-year old QP has depreciated so much... Shows how "special" they really are.
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I wanted to drive a Lancer Ralliart (trim under the Evo) a few years ago. The sales manager wanted to run a credit report before moving the rope around the car in the showroom. That car ended up sitting on their lot for over two years. **** them.
Mitsubishi and Subaru were always the black sheep in the Japanese family. Neither making terribly reliable cars, but also coveting their performance 4 bangers like they were Ferraris. Credit carries some weight, but it isn't a terribly solid method of determining an ideal customer. Porsche doesn't even do that to my knowledge.
Just imagine all the ****-eating grinned salesmen who become slackjawed when they find out their potential customer they ran off the lot with their BS'ing turned out to be very wealthy. A common theme among long time Corvette owners. They tend to be a modern day hippy and the sales people don't know who they're talking to. The people who own a small 'Vette collection or have bought every single model since they were able to. One of my wife's clients is a surgeon. I can't remember what, but he's tremendously wealthy and dresses like an absolute hobo. I'm not talking about Silicon Valley hobo, but borderline homeless. He had one car back in 2002-2004, a 993 GT2 in this silver color with custom exhaust. To my knowledge, it was his DD to work and back. He'd dress nicely to go to work, but whenever he'd visit her offices or come over to pick up paperwork, it looked like he was on the verge of asking for a few bucks for some malt liquor.
Just imagine all the ****-eating grinned salesmen who become slackjawed when they find out their potential customer they ran off the lot with their BS'ing turned out to be very wealthy. A common theme among long time Corvette owners. They tend to be a modern day hippy and the sales people don't know who they're talking to. The people who own a small 'Vette collection or have bought every single model since they were able to. One of my wife's clients is a surgeon. I can't remember what, but he's tremendously wealthy and dresses like an absolute hobo. I'm not talking about Silicon Valley hobo, but borderline homeless. He had one car back in 2002-2004, a 993 GT2 in this silver color with custom exhaust. To my knowledge, it was his DD to work and back. He'd dress nicely to go to work, but whenever he'd visit her offices or come over to pick up paperwork, it looked like he was on the verge of asking for a few bucks for some malt liquor.
Sat in/got driven in a G11 7er today. Whoever argues that it's not up there with the S-Class has not experienced the new 7er or is just rehashing the idea that the S-Class is still king and nothing comes close (which is true in some aspects). The seats are so damn soft, once you sit, you sink in enough that it feels like the seat is forming to your body while still lending solid support. And this wasn't with the Executive Lounge seating, I can't imagine how much more comfortable the rear can be with it.
With that said, it is true that the S-Class is better dampened for the type of car it is. The 7er is heavily dampened relative to cars like the 3er, 5er and 6er, but doesn't do it to the level of the S-Class. Just reading the reviews, I was a bit skeptical that the 7er was finally back to being a worthy competitor to the S-Class, after today, there is no doubt. The G11 deserves to be put in the same sentence as the W222 S-Class. Is the S-Class still the better all-in limousine? I would say so, but the 7er deserves some serious consideration.
Also, the pictures don't even come close to doing justice. The interior is all quality - metal, soft leather and ceramic and the design is well executed and typical BMW, every control is where it's supposed to be. And iDrive 5.0? It's a lot better and MMI and COMAND don't even come close. All in all, I think BMW did a great job with the G11 7er.
With that said, it is true that the S-Class is better dampened for the type of car it is. The 7er is heavily dampened relative to cars like the 3er, 5er and 6er, but doesn't do it to the level of the S-Class. Just reading the reviews, I was a bit skeptical that the 7er was finally back to being a worthy competitor to the S-Class, after today, there is no doubt. The G11 deserves to be put in the same sentence as the W222 S-Class. Is the S-Class still the better all-in limousine? I would say so, but the 7er deserves some serious consideration.
Also, the pictures don't even come close to doing justice. The interior is all quality - metal, soft leather and ceramic and the design is well executed and typical BMW, every control is where it's supposed to be. And iDrive 5.0? It's a lot better and MMI and COMAND don't even come close. All in all, I think BMW did a great job with the G11 7er.
I don't think anyone ever debated the quality wasn't there, it's the awful styling people have issues with. It looks like a refreshed F01 and the interior design does nothing to raise the bar.
It's a shame because I love the E38. Still one of the best looking BMWs ever.
BMW also bragged about how the new Carbon Core is supposed to make the G11 lighter, but look what happened. It basically weighs the same as the F01.
Even though I don't even like Mercedes, they are still king in this segment. That's why Mercedes outsells everyone else by a huge margin.
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Fair argument but if aesthetics/design is the G11's only flaw, then I would say BMW did well for themselves this generation because nothing about the way it drives/rides and the amentities says it isn't up there with the S-Class as a passenger car/limousine.
Also, that review was grossly over exaggerated and my experience did not agree with it. The S-Class may be better than the 7er in some aspects but it's not like the 7er failed in those regards. That's what the review basically comes out saying. Can't get comfortable in the rear? Doubt it. Just say the 7er is comfortable but the S-Class does a better job, not some over exaggerating nonsense saying you can't get a comfortable seating position and complain.