The Car Thread ... !

[daneoni]

Anyway, you're comparing mainline cars to performance variants. .

My point was that you can get 6 pot petrol cars in high end 'mainline' models with BMW. Granted these come with M-Packages/badges but aren't true M-performance models. But Merc has moved the 6 pot petrol to the AMG 43 badge and Audi keeps the 5-8 pot models in the S/RS models. Almost everything else is a 4cl or diesel.

BMW does have a lot of models but the others seem to be following suit. Audi says there will be more S/RS models and have just added the Q2 with the Q8 on the horizon. Merc brought the AMG 43 series and are watering down the SUV line. People's priorities/tastes in cars are changing hence manufactures have to meet them halfway to maintain sales.

 

[0388631]

Not a very good point as the majority of BMW's current stock comes with a turbo I4 as standard. There's a nice premium price to come if you want the 6 banger. The M-Sport or M badged packages are only offered on the highest level of trim in each series designation if it's available to be purchased. Someone looking at the E300 or future engines as this is the first year of production and more engine choices are on the way, isn't going to be looking at the S6 or the BMW 550i, for example. Currently, Merc is due to release the E63 AMG sedan, the new E class coupe as the old one is still being sold, and the new wagon. When the W212 released, there were few engine choices during the first year or so. The E350, then came the E500, then the E63 and then the other choices that filled around.

 

[daneoni]

BMW also have 4cy/turbos, and largely bigger engines come at a premium. But BMW make it easier for you to get a bigger engine without moving into their M-Perfomance cars/pricing. You can get a 6pot petrol with over for 35k in a BMW. Thats not happening with the other brands.

 

[kryten42]

yes they should

Sixt gets them in their rental fleet. Not sure if Sixt has an exclusive deal though, they are not big in the US. Last one I had from Sixt though was an Audi in Orlando.

 

[0388631]

BMW also have 4cy/turbos, and largely bigger engines come at a premium. But BMW make it easier for you to get a bigger engine without moving into their M-Perfomance cars/pricing. You can get a 6pot petrol with over for 35k in a BMW. Thats not happening with the other brands.

You're missing something. BMW offer a 4 and a 6 in their car lines. Then there's 6 and 8. That's it. I can't find a model that offers 4, 6 and 8 cyl. engines in one series. It doesn't exist. Comparing 3 year established vehicle bases to a first year production vehicle is silly. I'm not sure why you decided to repeat the line about BMW offering a turbo 4 when I already mentioned it in my previous post. You keep reiterating your original post without any real difference. I'm not sure what BMW is selling for 35K with a 6 cyl engine. Cheapest BMW is the 230i at 33K, the cheapest 6 cyl BMW offers is the M240i at about 45K. The 3 series, 4 series and 5 series start at higher prices and jump severely with the 6 cyl. engines.

Regardless, the person who's buying an E class isn't looking at a 2, 3 or 4 series. They'd be looking at the 5 series. The outgoing 5 starts at about 50K and the 6 cyl comes in at about 56K. The outgoing 5's production was wound down during the summer but there's still a lot left on the lots, and the incoming 5's pricing schema doesn't stray much from the outgoing models.
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Sixt gets them in their rental fleet. Not sure if Sixt has an exclusive deal though, they are not big in the US. Last one I had from Sixt though was an Audi in Orlando.

I've seen two of them. I thought they were regional. What's their typical offering lineup?

 

[quagmire]

You're missing something. BMW offer a 4 and a 6 in their car lines. Then there's 6 and 8. That's it. I can't find a model that offers 4, 6 and 8 cyl. engines in one series. It doesn't exist.

530i( 4 banger), 540i( 6 banger), M550i( V8).... Or I guess the new M550i now falls under the M-Performance scheme as it is badged as an M now. Where it used to just be the 550i with the F10 and earlier gens.

 

[0388631]

Those are 528 and 535 with new naming and newer engines. There's that, except as I said before, Merc has always introduced 1-2 engines and then filled the rest in, whereas BMW just dumps all of it out. Aside from that minor niggle, you can't get a 6 cyl BMW for 35K unless it's used. If he's from the UK, then that figure is true for the M240i, but a person looking at a mid-size sedan like the E class isn't going to go for a 2er or any other sized car. It's going to be the A6, E class or 5er. Historically, there's going to be more model choices as the lifetime of the generation plays out for Merc. It would incredibly stupid to offer only an E300, E43 and the upcoming E63 sedan. They've yet to update the wagon or the coupe. They've always been slowpokes in dumping their old line and bringing in the new.

 

[kryten42]

I've seen two of them. I thought they were regional. What's their typical offering lineup?

Sixt globally has a lot of Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Volvo etc. The last two Sixt cars I've had were a Volvo XC90 in the UK (last August, was new model Inscription trim!) and an Audi Q3 in Orlando (meh!). https://www.sixt.com/fleet-guide/

 

[D.T.]

Just going to leave this here without explanation

 

[Cnasty]

Figured I would show her off with one of the rare moments that it is clean.

 

[daneoni]

You're missing something. BMW offer a 4 and a 6 in their car lines. Then there's 6 and 8. That's it. I can't find a model that offers 4, 6 and 8 cyl.

Not really sure your point here. 4 and 6 means small and bigger engine option. 8pot is almost entirely exclusive to performance cars anyway.

I'm not sure why you decided to repeat the line about BMW offering a turbo 4 when I already mentioned it
in my previous post.

Its me agreeing with your point and then expanding mine.

I'm not sure what BMW is selling for 35K with a 6 cyl engine. Cheapest BMW is the 230i at 33K, the cheapest 6 cyl BMW offers is the M240i at about 45K.

M140i starts at 34 grand...in Europe

Regardless, the person who's buying an E class isn't looking at a 2, 3 or 4 series. They'd be looking at the 5 series.

Obviously.

But not everyone who wants a bigger engine wants to go up in the product line. Some people want a smaller car with a bigger engine (bigger than 4cl). And BMW still gives you more of an option of getting that.

 

[0388631]

Yes, in Europe. There is a currency exchange rate in play. The 1 series isn't for sale in the US anyway. You keep moaning about the E300 but in all of Merc's history, they've always been slow at adding engine options. I don't understand why you're complaining other than to complain. BMW has many options because some of their engines have been in use since the late 2000s, with a handful for a decade. Further, you said smaller car. The C class is a 3/4 competitor, not the E class. Again, I have no idea why you keep comparing two very different cars here. People looking at a mid-size sedan from the Germans would look at the E, 5 series and the A6. They would not be looking at the E and the A6 and say, "I want a small car but want a 6 cyl engine or bigger!" They'd go for the A4/S4 or the C300, C43 or C63.

 

[daneoni]

I think you should re-read my original post carefully. You've taken a weird detour and this just keeps going in circles.

And if you disagree thats fine

 

[Alphazoid]

My favourite cars out of the Detroit show were the SQ5 and the Lexus LS. If i were to buy an Audi now it'd probably be the SQ5. The LS is a car i don't see myself owning till i'm 50. But i love what Lexus did with the 2018 model.

Lexus design in general especially with the facelifts is starting to grow on me for the simple reason that its different and unique in the industry.

 

[xraydoc]

Just bought a 2017 Chevy Volt Premier a few days ago. I'm actually really pleased with it.

I was looking for something cleaner to drive than what I've been driving in the past, but didn't want to go with a Prius or anything smaller. I'd love a Tesla but with three kids in college, the $80K Tesla is going to have to wait.

So the Volt is the closest thing to a Tesla jr. that exists, especially since the Model 3 is a long wait out. And frankly, the interior is as nice as many of the other cars I've owned. Lots of tech features, good stereo, CarPlay, even heated rear seats.

Performance is reasonable - the 0-60 (7.5s) is even reasonable for a mid-priced gas powered sedan, and better than I think any other hybrid on the market. The 0-30 is even better since all the car's torque is available instantly, so it does a great job pulling in to traffic.

The 2017 Volt will reportedly go around 55 miles on a full charge before firing up the gas powered generator, and since my commute to work is only 12 miles each way, I likely can manage a full day of errands even after going to work & back without using a drop of gas.

Also, impressively, my workplace has EV charger stations so I won't even need to plug in at home most days a week if I don't want to.

So after 72 hrs, I'm pretty impressed. First American car in 20 years.

 

[quagmire]

Just got back from the dealer. Officially ordered a 2017 Chevy Camaro 2SS. Nightfall gray metallic paint, jet black leather interior, performance exhaust, magnetic ride control, 8 speed automatic, 20" silver split spoke wheels, and navigation is how I configured it.

All I can say now is..... Is it here yet?

 

[puma1552]

^Congrats!

As the owner of a gray 5.0, the nightfall isn't going to stop the attention.

The plus side is that the attention you will get will be from the big boys - Camaros/Mustangs/Vettes/Porsches/AMGs/Ms - the kids in the WRXs and GTIs will leave you alone and stop treating you like a free lunch, like they do in my 170 hp Camaro.

P.S. change that order to blue, you won't get tired of it, I promise - you have a whole life ahead for a boring gray car (yes, I'm aware of the irony). My Camaro is bright blue and I've had it 18 years, and the color is the best part.

 

[quagmire]

^Congrats!

As the owner of a gray 5.0, the nightfall isn't going to stop the attention.

The plus side is that the attention you will get will be from the big boys - Camaros/Mustangs/Vettes/Porsches/AMGs/Ms - the kids in the WRXs and GTIs will leave you alone and stop treating you like a free lunch, like they do in my 170 hp Camaro.

P.S. change that order to blue, you won't get tired of it, I promise - you have a whole life ahead for a boring gray car (yes, I'm aware of the irony). My Camaro is bright blue and I've had it 18 years, and the color is the best part.

Before I ordered it, I did go look at the colors in person again vs just pics and I preferred the nightfall gray over the hyper blue still. I just prefer dark color cars overall. Hyper blue is still a good color.

 

[bunnspecial]

No manual?

 

[quagmire]

No manual?

Rush hour gridlock killed the idea of a manual. I enjoyed driving the stick in the Camaro, but I could not do it for 40 minutes in bumper to bumper traffic.

 

[0388631]

I can see myself owning an LS. Then again I'm much older than most of you. But I'd probably try to get something much faster while still getting a family car.

 

[bunnspecial]

Ultimately it's your car and your decision.

Driving a manual in that traffic is certainly more work than driving an auto and requires actually paying attention to what you're doing, but it's not that bad. That's especially true since most 6 speeds give you a traffic "crawler" gear.

I don't drive a manual every day, but have made plenty of 10 mile, 45 minute long trips in one. I tend to have some habits that irritate auto drivers-like not moving until I have a half car length or so in front of me rather than every time I get an inch. Aside from that, though, I don't find it that tiring.

 

[0388631]

I've had my fair share of manuals. As the years pass, it becomes less sensible to own one unless you live in a low pop area. It's not unusual to shift a few hundred times in the course of a couple hours around here. The idea of a tranny like the ZF8 coupled with paddles makes a lot of sense, or a good traditional auto, or even a DCT, though a DCT requires a different driving style.

Depends on the transmission, too. I doubt many Ford DCTs last in our traffic. The trannies themselves will grenade within 40K miles, but with stop and go, constant shifting on Ford's dry clutches sans their wets for their performance cars, it won't last. At that point, you'd be better off with a MT or go with another car brand.

 

[D.T.]

Rush hour gridlock killed the idea of a manual.

 

[puma1552]

I've had my fair share of manuals. As the years pass, it becomes less sensible to own one unless you live in a low pop area. It's not unusual to shift a few hundred times in the course of a couple hours around here. The idea of a tranny like the ZF8 coupled with paddles makes a lot of sense, or a good traditional auto, or even a DCT, though a DCT requires a different driving style.

Depends on the transmission, too. I doubt many Ford DCTs last in our traffic. The trannies themselves will grenade within 40K miles, but with stop and go, constant shifting on Ford's dry clutches sans their wets for their performance cars, it won't last. At that point, you'd be better off with a MT or go with another car brand.

I too have had my days with a manual. 3 years with my auto in the GT and I haven't missed the manual whatsoever. Autos are just so good these days. I still think DCTs have a way to go to totally avoid the weird behavior, but there are some great ones and not so great ones out there. Ford's dry clutch DCT in the Fiesta/Focus is a bad example, it's just a crappy transmission, period. Amazing they've kept it in there for so long, but you can get a traditional one in a Focus now, albeit only in the SE and I think only with the Ecoboost - but it is an option now.