The Car Thread ... !

[0388631]

This had me in stitches.

http://www.motoringexposure.com/461...w-pedestrian-targeting-system-2018-mustang-gt


I'm not at all surprised that they got rid of the V6. People are complaining and saying the new GT looks even more Euro than the outgoing body. Except a few Mustang bodies of yester-year, it's difficult to design a Mustang that is appreciated by the masses and still pay homage to the first Mustangs. It's a bit like the 911. A lot of people don't see what's special about a 911 because they don't look all that different over time, apart from newer fascia. Then again, these are the same people who can't appreciate the car for what it is: an all around great sports car.

There are people who love Mustangs despite what they look like and then there's people who will complain just to complain. Much like PSRI.

 

[iLog.Genius]

This had me in stitches.

http://www.motoringexposure.com/461...w-pedestrian-targeting-system-2018-mustang-gt


I'm not at all surprised that they got rid of the V6. People are complaining and saying the new GT looks even more Euro than the outgoing body. Except a few Mustang bodies of yester-year, it's difficult to design a Mustang that is appreciated by the masses and still pay homage to the first Mustangs. It's a bit like the 911. A lot of people don't see what's special about a 911 because they don't look all that different over time, apart from newer fascia. Then again, these are the same people who can't appreciate the car for what it is: an all around great sports car.

There are people who love Mustangs despite what they look like and then there's people who will complain just to complain. Much like PSRI.

I find that it's what you've grown up with or what you're familiar with. People who grew up with German cars will prefer the German design. If you grew up with the Japanese brands, you think they have the best design and the same with American brands. I had this conversation with a buddy yesterday. He thinks the Nissan 350Z is a great looking car and it's a better looking roadster than the Z4 or Boxster.

As to your post, I always liked the Mustang but I've grown to appreciate them even more when Ford started to add more of a Euro influence in their design but that's just my preference because I prefer how the Europeans design their cars vs their counterparts.

 

[D.T.]

This had me in stitches.

http://www.motoringexposure.com/461...w-pedestrian-targeting-system-2018-mustang-gt


I'm not at all surprised that they got rid of the V6. People are complaining and saying the new GT looks even more Euro than the outgoing body. Except a few Mustang bodies of yester-year, it's difficult to design a Mustang that is appreciated by the masses and still pay homage to the first Mustangs. It's a bit like the 911. A lot of people don't see what's special about a 911 because they don't look all that different over time, apart from newer fascia. Then again, these are the same people who can't appreciate the car for what it is: an all around great sports car.

There are people who love Mustangs despite what they look like and then there's people who will complain just to complain. Much like PSRI.

Nice addition, pedestrians are getting more nimble, it's getting harder to really get a bead on one ...

So true about the looks,i.e., keeping the historical design elements, while also moving forward (and the 911 is an outstanding example). Not pissing off purists, but allowing your brand to become more global, it's really a tricky balancing act.

I find that it's what you've grown up with or what you're familiar with. People who grew up with German cars will prefer the German design. If you grew up with the Japanese brands, you think they have the best design and the same with American brands. I had this conversation with a buddy yesterday. He thinks the Nissan 350Z is a great looking car and it's a better looking roadster than the Z4 or Boxster.

As to your post, I always liked the Mustang but I've grown to appreciate them even more when Ford started to add more of a Euro influence in their design but that's just my preference because I prefer how the Europeans design their cars vs their counterparts.

Funny enough, I've had the opportunity _and_ desire to move across different brands and "country of origin". They all bring something interesting to the table, and I really try to consider each car individually. Heck, when I was shopping my current ride, I was coming from a small Japanese roadster, yet had a long history of owning Chevrolet (well, Corvettes), but I didn't hesitate to consider a car from Ford, since it pushed all the right buttons (yet previous designs didn't interest me).

 

[quagmire]

With the official pics, the refresh does look better outside of that wing..... Probably still prefer the original S550 design, but the facelift isn't bad and I am sure it will look better in person.

 

[0388631]

10 speed? I take it Ford will be using Aisin's 10 speed tranny? Or are they going with GM's 10 speed they claim is as fast as Porsche's PDK?

 

[D.T.]

10 speed? I take it Ford will be using Aisin's 10 speed tranny? Or are they going with GM's 10 speed they claim is as fast as Porsche's PDK?

The latter, though the 10-speed GM is using is actually a joint Ford/GM product:

This new 10-speed rear-drive transmission is the result of collaboration between Ford and General Motors, although Ford had the engineering lead on it. The companies also are jointly developing a nine-speed transverse automatic for front-drive cars and crossovers; GM is leading the engineering on that effort. Not long after Ford starts cranking out F-150s with these transmissions, Chevrolet will launch it in the 2017 Camaro ZL1, coupled to the 650-hp, supercharged 6.2-liter LT4 engine from the Corvette Z06. With a torque capacity of at least 650 lb-ft, this first version of the transmission is plenty beefy to handle that track-ready machine, as well as the Ford Raptor, with its uprated 3.5-liter EcoBoost V-6 making upwards of 450 horsepower—maybe more. We would expect that soon afterward, we will see this design spawn a family of 10-speed automatics that are smaller and lighter to suit less-hunky rear-drive machines in the Ford and GM families.

http://www.caranddriver.com/flipboo...he-new-fordgm-10-speed-automatic-transmission

 

[0388631]

Right, so if I'm reading that correctly, that new ZL1 will come with an auto only?

 

[D.T.]

Right, so if I'm reading that correctly, that new ZL1 will come with an auto only?

It comes in both the A10 and M6 though the A10 models were delayed (the Manual 6-speed is actually shipping, the A10 "early 2017").

 

[0388631]

It comes in both the A10 and M6 though the A10 models were delayed (the Manual 6-speed is actually shipping, the A10 "early 2017").

Cool. I'm very interested to see real world reviews of the tranny. Back during the holidays, I happened across an article stating that the '18 GT350 will be getting an option 7 speed DCT. I'm interested to see how that fares if it's true. I don't keep up with domestic cars much, so you'll have to correct me here if I'm wrong about that. But, yes, that 10 speed AT is going to be interesting. People in the truck community were really happy when some lines changed over to using the ZF8 variants. If the new 10 speed turns out to be good, and that's a big IF, it's going to be met with great applause. The transmission wars are getting interesting. Upcoming Lexuses will be using the new Asin 10 speeds, Ford's doing their thing with GM along with their own 11 speed tranny, and Honday is doing a TCT or triple clutch transmission.

I'm curious to see how durable GM/Ford's endevours will be. PDK and dare I say modern DCTs in Audis, Golf Rs, BMWs, etc. will last 150-200K miles before needing a fluid flush. Hence their so called "lifetime" status. In hindsight, if transmission endurance can be lengthened to a lifetime car of say 200-300K miles, then the engineers did their work. It's a complicated system but it benefits owners from not having to spend 5-16K (depending on the car) on a new transmission. And indy garages simply wouldn't have the tools needed to repair them if the go bad.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Is 4WD a necessity for you?

Playing catchup here.

A couple winters ago we got 7ft of snow here in Boston. I'm not sure if you've ever driven a RWD car in the snow, but I can tell you the experience is quite awful. Good tires, traction control, and a hefty car help, but AWD is substantially better, FWD isn't the best but still better than AWD.

So yes, AWD is a must. The 5- does great in the snow, especially with its Blizzak snow shoes on (I have yet to put them on this year). My girlfriends S60 is AWD, but it's a FWD biased haldex system, a little slow to engage, not the best but gets the job done.

In winters past we've swapped the Volvo for her father's old Land Cruiser, lovingly known as Elsae (from "LC"). We haven't made the switch this year, it's been a mild winter. That thing's a beast in the snow but a bit bulky for parking downtown... or even in our parking garage.

 

[kryten42]

Playing catchup here.

A couple winters ago we got 7ft of snow here in Boston. I'm not sure if you've ever driven a RWD car in the snow, but I can tell you the experience is quite awful. Good tires, traction control, and a hefty car help, but AWD is substantially better, FWD isn't the best but still better than AWD.

So yes, AWD is a must. The 5- does great in the snow, especially with its Blizzak snow shoes on (I have yet to put them on this year). My girlfriends S60 is AWD, but it's a FWD biased haldex system, a little slow to engage, not the best but gets the job done.

In winters past we've swapped the Volvo for her father's old Land Cruiser, lovingly known as Elsae (from "LC"). We haven't made the switch this year, it's been a mild winter. That thing's a beast in the snow but a bit bulky for parking downtown... or even in our parking garage.

I agree. I am looking for some winter wheels for my 535 (xDrive) but our other car is a Lexus RX and that was excellent in the heavy snow from a couple of winters ago, even without winter tires and being front biased. It does have a diff lock though which helps, and "snow" mode for the traction / stability control system and throttle response.

Hopefully will not get a lot of snow this year and will give me more time to find some good winter wheels for the Bimmer.

 

[D.T.]

So yes, AWD is a must.

I'm always shocked that my BIL up in Pittsburgh doesn't own an AWD vehicle, they have two Toyotas, one is a RAV4 so it's even a model with an AWD option they didn't select. We haven't been up there during serious snow that many times, but twice it was severe enough that only our T4R could actually get anywhere (especially his house that's in a pretty rural, hilly area).

No question, if I lived there, I'd have _some_ kind of AWD vehicle, even if it wasn't an SUV.

 

[A.Goldberg]

I'm always shocked that my BIL up in Pittsburgh doesn't own an AWD vehicle, they have two Toyotas, one is a RAV4 so it's even a model with an AWD option they didn't select. We haven't been up there during serious snow that many times, but twice it was severe enough that only our T4R could actually get anywhere (especially his house that's in a pretty rural, hilly area).

No question, if I lived there, I'd have _some_ kind of AWD vehicle, even if it wasn't an SUV.

Yeah, RWD is not a popular option in New England. AWD sedans are great but you still run into the ground clearance issue. My mother is notorious for trying to traverse 3ft snow banks from the plows at the end of the driveway in non-SUVs.

From what I've read the RAV4 evidently has a pretty mediocre AWD system as it is- poor ability to transfer torque back to the rear wheels. It's pretty much par for the course on most car-based SUV's though, exception being the Forester. But that's how they manage good gas mileage. I've never had the opportunity to try my sisters RAV4 in the snow.

FWD still manages pretty decently in the snow assuming there is some semblance of plowing happening, provided the car has a little heft to it (I find lightweights like Civics are awful, something like a Passat does much better, but that isn't such a big deal with the advent of stability control). Traction control works wonders too. The real benefit of AWD is getting moving and recovery from sliding. If you have FWD on a road with snow, chances are you'll do fine. Deep stuff, snow banks, very steep hills is where you're in trouble.

My old WJ Jeep Grand Cherokee had Quadradrive which was great, full center locking diff and front and rear variable locking diffs. The only issue was parking lots, tight turns could engage the system. Fast 90 degree turns on wet roads could be interesting too, the wheels would spin out of sync, the (fully mechanical) system would engage, extra resistance would cause the car to downshift and then you'd be lurching forward rather unexpectedly.

It's sad to see all the SUV's losing truly capable powertrains. Locking diffs and low range transfercases are harder and harder to come by. It's humiliating Land Rover dumped low range standard in favor of making it an option. And the Touareg dumped it all together.

 

[0388631]

Playing catchup here.

A couple winters ago we got 7ft of snow here in Boston. I'm not sure if you've ever driven a RWD car in the snow, but I can tell you the experience is quite awful. Good tires, traction control, and a hefty car help, but AWD is substantially better, FWD isn't the best but still better than AWD.

So yes, AWD is a must. The 5- does great in the snow, especially with its Blizzak snow shoes on (I have yet to put them on this year). My girlfriends S60 is AWD, but it's a FWD biased haldex system, a little slow to engage, not the best but gets the job done.

In winters past we've swapped the Volvo for her father's old Land Cruiser, lovingly known as Elsae (from "LC"). We haven't made the switch this year, it's been a mild winter. That thing's a beast in the snow but a bit bulky for parking downtown... or even in our parking garage.

I have, a bit over half that amount, though. Which is probably mere hail for you lot. It's good fun in an open field. Fresh snow can be gripped to. Snow that's sat for six to eight hours overnight doesn't. Though the stupidest thing I've ever done was accelerate a somewhat icy/slurry mountain road in a RWD car with chains on. You could wait for the new Q7. I think you would appreciate the SUV for what it is. You're rather limited by the lack of quality luxury (or premium if you want to go back to semantics) vehicles outside of 4Matic and xDrive. There is, of course, the F Pace and something from the Land Rover lineup, but you'd have to pay a higher premium to get something the Q7 3.0 comes with. I've seen a few F Paces now, and you really ought to go all in for it to look great.

Funny enough, I can drive about 15 minutes and hit snowy mountains. Having spent my very early life in cold and snowy places (during the winter periods) I've been snowed out and prefer milder weather.

If it's legal, you could simply a buy a snowmobile and drive that to work.

 

[D.T.]

It's sad to see all the SUV's losing truly capable powertrains. Locking diffs and low range transfercases are harder and harder to come by. It's humiliating Land Rover dumped low range standard in favor of making it an option. And the Touareg dumped it all together.

Yeah in fact, in one of the trips I mentioned above (where the snow got pretty serious) we were at the BILs and I was pretty determined to make a supply run - a grocery was open, but being a bit off the main road, and at a higher elevation we were sort of trapped. The neighbor said there was a huge drift at the end of the access road that itself is down and up a long winding hill.

However, a man in his 4Runner on a quest for beer was not stopped Seriously the 4Runner handled everything like a Sunday drive, kind of a _scary_ Sunday drive but I made it there and back. Low range, hill descent control, locked, *boom*.

 

[iLog.Genius]

Our dealership just got the G30 5-Series in and, aesthetically, I think it's a better car than the E-Class. The cockpit/seating position is absolutely perfect and the dash is designed and positioned in a way where it makes you the focus as it should. Quality is absolutely there on every surface. BMW continues to make improvements to iDrive (updated already to 6.0, 5.0 in the 7er) and it just further separates itself as arguably the best infotainment system in the industry.

 

[2298754]

Our dealership just got the G30 5-Series in and, aesthetically, I think it's a better car than the E-Class. The cockpit/seating position is absolutely perfect and the dash is designed and positioned in a way where it makes you the focus as it should. Quality is absolutely there on every surface. BMW continues to make improvements to iDrive (updated already to 6.0, 5.0 in the 7er) and it just further separates itself as arguably the best infotainment system in the industry.

prefer the W213's styling over the G30, but the interior goes to BMW. I hate the giant screens and COMMAND is trash.

Also, you can't get a 6 cylinder W213 without going to the E43 AMG and that *starts* at $72k...

 

[iLog.Genius]

Also, you can't get a 6 cylinder W213 without going to the E43 AMG and that *starts* at $72k...

Ain't much better over here in BMW land, you need to spend $69K CAD (base model) 540i for a straight six or you're stuck with a 4 banger on a 530i at $61k CAD.

 

[0388631]

I'm not a huge fan. It looks better in person than in photos, but to me I still see old BMW design language with minor refinements during each generations refresh phases. Which isn't a bad thing. The front cockpit is driver orientated, something Merc hasn't ever focused on except overall refinement. While shoppers of the E class are the same as those looking at the 5er, I feel they'd both attract buyers who're looking for a specific style of cockpit. That isn't to say the swept back dash in the G30 looks much better than the old generation. Much nicer than the current A6's interior, however, Audi keep the gizmos well below the eyeline so the driver is focused. I quite enjoyed the E I test drove, even if it was a silly 4 banger. Though I really wish Merc looked towards the other two to reduce dash height and keep things compact. Though it could be said BMW and Audi have opted for thin displays be it retractable or static, moving components from the dash into the tablet, thus reducing used space. I want to take the new G30 for a test drive as soon as the roads dry up. The upcoming Lexus car interior look great. I really like how they and Audi use bamboo wood for some of their satin finish wood interiors. I really do. Not only is it a fantastic, strong and lightweight wood, it's also very eco friendly and completely justified purchasing an engine option that would kill baby seals. /sarcasm

Though it is very ecological compared to pine, rosewood, walnut, oak or maple because bamboo grows quite fast. There's a few parts around here where some idiot planted the damn plants several decades back. They're very invasive, but people cut it down with permission of the city or the owner if on private property and make use of it. I have. Very useful wood and dare I say anti-bacterial to a point. It's a very dense wood when mature and it's very difficult for bacteria to find pockets and prosper.
[doublepost=1485220488][/doublepost]

Also, I was trying to a W213 the other day. Can't get a 6 cylinder, unless you pony up $70k for the E43 AMG. 540xi should spec out significantly less.

The E43 is poor value for money. BMW offers the same sized vehicles or smaller that perform better at a lower price point. Plus, you can get the M Sport packages which offer nifty stuff for a few thousand more. The upcoming E63 model is going to be great value. Though if what I've read over at Bimmerpost et al is any true, the G30 based M5 is going to be as you Bostonians would say, "wicked!"
[doublepost=1485220808][/doublepost]Personally, of the new E, the only thing I really disliked was the steering. It didn't change at higher speeds, or if it did, it didn't change much, but the very light steering in street settings is very easy to drive with. Compared to Mercs I own now and have in the past, it's almost reassuring with how simply it is. Not what I'd want at highway speeds. I think a lot of brands will come out with terrible steering until they're a few revisions in or you know, do the sensible thing and leave it up to the customer to choose for themselves in drive options.

 

[daneoni]

I prefer the 5er design to the E myself. The E only looks good in coupé form...same with the C imho. Sad that any decent power train in these upper mid-size cars now start from 55k upwards. Mercedes/Audi are the worst at this. You can get 6 pots in the 1er, 2er, 3er in BMW from 36k upwards. But the other two want you to buy from their AMG or S/RS lines which jack the prices up ridiculously.

 

[0388631]

I think the front end of the G30 looks great, but that backend is terrible. Though, that's not to discount Merc's obviously blind designers. The back ends of current Mercs is terrible. BMW interiors leave much to be desired. The 7er looks alright.

Anyway, you're comparing mainline cars to performance variants. Can't compare a regular midrange 5 series to an E43 or upcoming E63 AMG or their S variants. BMW M is comparable to AMG and S from Audi. I'd say the RS is compared to AMG S models. Both being faster, more brute and being less refined in a good way. Don't think BMW do anything outside of M. BMW M-Sport packages would be comparable to AMG trim options or Audi's Premier Plus (I think), though the BMW M-Sport packages add more than just looks.

The problem with BMW is that despite their model name changes in terms of series, they've got too many vehicle models. It's ridiculous. I suspect with the 8 release, there's going to be an 8 gran coupe, as well.

 

[jca24]

I think the front end of the G30 looks great, but that backend is terrible. Though, that's not to discount Merc's obviously blind designers. The back ends of current Mercs is terrible. BMW interiors leave much to be desired. The 7er looks alright.

Anyway, you're comparing mainline cars to performance variants. Can't compare a regular midrange 5 series to an E43 or upcoming E63 AMG or their S variants. BMW M is comparable to AMG and S from Audi. I'd say the RS is compared to AMG S models. Both being faster, more brute and being less refined in a good way. Don't think BMW do anything outside of M. BMW M-Sport packages would be comparable to AMG trim options or Audi's Premier Plus (I think), though the BMW M-Sport packages add more than just looks.

The problem with BMW is that despite their model name changes in terms of series, they've got too many vehicle models. It's ridiculous. I suspect with the 8 release, there's going to be an 8 gran coupe, as well.

I could not agree more, bmw has was to many different models. Their sales are slowing and all those lease returns are starting to come back killing resale on alot of the lesser expensive models that all the .... leased up. There is a huge bmw dealer in Plano Tx. near my house and you would not believe the floor plan they keep. More than a typical chevy of for dealer. Bottom gonna drop soon.

 

[0388631]

It would be in BMW's best interests to begin fleet sales on the cheaper 3s to rental companies.

 

[jca24]

It would be in BMW's best interests to begin fleet sales on the cheaper 3s to rental companies.

yes they should

 

[0388631]

They could also cover the repair fees. They already do it in Europe. Mind you, when Europeans state that Merc or BMW are as common as Hondas, they don't realize or rather aren't aware that we don't get the cheap versions without leather or like textiles. Taxi grade vehicles are often very basic. Merc do fleet cars in the US, but they're the same cars you'd get from a dealer with options. These are for premium rental cars through major brands. Rates vary from $75 to $450/day.