The Car Thread ... !

[AustinIllini]

I personally prefer US News as a rounded source and Car & Driver for a more drivability source.

 

[0388631]

Never heard of US News until now. Will have to check them out. I stopped my sub to CaD after Csaba Csere stepped down. I read the online stuff from time to time. Actually, about 12 years ago I realized that the online and the print were the same, but I guess print is something people still prefer today in terms of auto magazines. There were some really good car shows back in the day. A lot of it has dropped off due to YouTube being more popular with youths and people in my demographic moving to online video over TV. I'd like to say it's bull but we pretty much DVR the bulk of our programs and watch later. It's torture to sit through 5 minutes of commercial nowadays.

In the eighties and the very early 90s, you could channel surf fast. I don't recall there being more than 40 channels or so on an expended package. Now I've got over 500 channels excluding music and there's too much to go through. And I'll cut this very depressing post short here.

My point was that these days you have a lot of official and non-official reviews to make up your mind about something. I can't imagine how life will be in 20 years. Assuming the circus peanut hasn't gotten us killed.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Audi's going to face backlash for years because of their decade of incompetence. They need to refresh their lineups faster, as well. I saw a brand new A8 4.0 yesterday at WF as I was walking towards my car. I went over and looked inside. Feels a bit spartan compared to newer Audis. Think the current design is from 2009 or thereabouts? Can't imagine spending about 100K base on that car and getting a, to me, mediocre interior in relation to price in 2017. I've seen a lot of new A4s with the top tier package. It's a very nice and masculine design. The B9 has a mean face that's very nice, similar to the face of the 4er and its low ride height.

I've yet to see any A6 or S6 sportbacks, unless they're not released yet. I've said before that I'm not a fan (though I do like the 7 from Audi). It would be hard for me to fork over the money to buy one since I'm not a huge fan. Even if Audi's are incredibly reliable even six to eig

Audi does seem to have longer product cycles but don't seem to have any problems competitively selling their vehicles.

The A8 is a relatively old car at this point, but as a flagship sedan it won't have the turnover found with smaller, more affordable models. The A8 has always been a more affordable option in the flagship sedan lineup, coming in with a lower price tag than the 7-series and S-class. The S-Class has long been the gold standard of full size luxury sedans, but also carries the highest price tag.

The A6/S6 Sportback has been around for some time now, it's called the A7.

I will say I like how Audi still offers base 6cyl and optional 8cyl in the A6. With the E-Class you're stuck with a 2.0T 4cyl unless you fork over for the E43 AMG or want the E400 Wagon. The 5-series of course comes standard with a 4cyl. It seems crazy to pay $50-60k+ and be stuck with a 4cyl.

yeah, and everyone knows cr is crap, audi at the top is laughable too!

Audi has been ranked at the top of numerous organizations ratings for a number of years now. Certainly not something I would have expected 10 years ago.

 

[0388631]

Audi does seem to have longer product cycles but don't seem to have any problems competitively selling their vehicles.

They look alike from generation to generation. Much like Porsche, they do small design changes.

The A8 is a relatively old car at this point, but as a flagship sedan it won't have the turnover found with smaller, more affordable models. The A8 has always been a more affordable option in the flagship sedan lineup, coming in with a lower price tag than the 7-series and S-class. The S-Class has long been the gold standard of full size luxury sedans, but also carries the highest price tag.

It is, and rides better long term, too, I'd imagine. The new 7er doesn't tickle my fancy and wasn't as comfortable as the S, when I took it for a spin recently. The BMW is more agile, I'd like to say, but for the price difference between it and the Merc, I'd rather take the Merc. Fortunately, I've yet to hit my fifties or sixties, so neither are cars I'd like to own now.

The A6/S6 Sportback has been around for some time now, it's called the A7.

My bad, I was thinking of the A5/S5 Sportback due this summer.

I will say I like how Audi still offers base 6cyl and optional 8cyl in the A6. With the E-Class you're stuck with a 2.0T 4cyl unless you fork over for the E43 AMG or want the E400 Wagon. The 5-series of course comes standard with a 4cyl. It seems crazy to pay $50-60k+ and be stuck with a 4cyl.

I had my car serviced recently and inquired about that. More engines are coming. No idea when. MBZ Europe tends to be secretive or obscure about it. Damn shame, too. An E400 is in the works, that I know. The E400 is probably going to be the most popular engine choice for the E. MBZ has a nasty habit of introducing bumbling engines outside of their S range and then bringing in other engines over time. Meanwhile BMW is offering the new 5er with the 540i engine that produced mid 300s with good torque. A quality engine for a big car. The M550i is going to be a real treat when it comes to our shores.

I can't speak for the 7 series, but the 5 series has benefited a lot from their carbon core technology. It's much lighter than the last generation F10. Unless I'm mistaken, they're now in E60 weight territory again.

 

[A.Goldberg]

They look alike from generation to generation. Much like Porsche, they do small design changes.

Yes, design evolution. I think that's why Audi has very good resale value. Generations all look similar from one to the next. VAG has been very good in this respect. BMW to some extent. Mercedes probably the least of three, which is reflected in their generally worse resale.

I've never been much of a fan of the Mercedes cloud car feel. BMW and Audi provide much more driver oriented cars. That said, the 7 series is a really dull car design wise, and the S-class definitely wins aesthetically right now. When your dealing with a car that large, comfort and luxury I think is the real competing factor.

I had my car serviced recently and inquired about that. More engines are coming. No idea when. MBZ Europe tends to be secretive or obscure about it. Damn shame, too. An E400 is in the works, that I know. The E400 is probably going to be the most popular engine choice for the E. MBZ has a nasty habit of introducing bumbling engines outside of their S range and then bringing in other engines over time. Meanwhile BMW is offering the new 5er with the 540i engine that produced mid 300s with good torque. A quality engine for a big car. The M550i is going to be a real treat when it comes to our shores

I hope they bring an E400 sedan. The E400 wagon is being advertised. Their past diesel options as of recent have been awful, like BMW's 35d in the 5 which is a great option. The E250 diesel was dreadfully slow. Surely they must have a better option they could offer.

 

[0388631]

The sedan E400 is due... sometime. I suppose they know their market of loyal wagoneers who want to be the first to get the E400's engine. Who knows.

If anyone's confused on what they should get, they could get a Chevy Malibu. It looks just like a Maserati Mercedes BMW Tiburon.

 

[AustinIllini]

The sedan E400 is due... sometime. I suppose they know their market of loyal wagoneers who want to be the first to get the E400's engine. Who knows.

If anyone's confused on what they should get, they could get a Chevy Malibu. It looks just like a Maserati Mercedes BMW Tiburon.

If it wasn't crappy FWD, I would take a look at the Impala. That thing is a hell of a car.

One of the engines makes 300 HP

 

[2298754]

Audi's going to face backlash for years because of their decade of incompetence.

Decade of incompetence? You mean the most successful period in their history?

Which other company has had seven consecutive years of record sales (they're up to ~72 straights months now)?

Which other company has gone from bottom-of-the-barrel resale/reliability to near the top?

They need to refresh their lineups faster, as well.

Their product cycles are very similar to BMW/Mercedes. I'm not sure what you're talking about...

I've yet tosee any A6 or S6 sportbacks, unless they're not released yet. I've said before that I'm not a fan (though I do like the 7 from Audi).

I think you mean A5/S5 sportback? Should be out soon
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The regular Camaro has some of the worst blind spots in modern vehicles

It does. Not to mention, the crappy interior...
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It is, and rides better long term, too, I'd imagine. The new 7er doesn't tickle my fancy and wasn't as comfortable as the S, when I took it for a spin recently. The BMW is more agile, I'd like to say, but for the price difference between it and the Merc, I'd rather take the Merc. Fortunately, I've yet to hit my fifties or sixties, so neither are cars I'd like to own now.

Don't like the new 7er. It is ugly. S Class is still the golden standard in this segment.

 

[Cnasty]

As an owner, I hope to see continued improvement in reliability. I personally have not had any issues as it has been the best vehicle I have ever owned nearing 10k miles but they have a ways to go and older models have had reliability concerns.

Tesla is named ‘top American car brand’ by Consumer Reports, Audi and Porsche take global top spots

https://electrek.co/2017/02/28/tesla-top-american-car-brand-consumer-reports/

 

[0388631]

Decade of incompetence? You mean the most successful period in their history?

Early 2000 to late 2000s. 2010/2011 and onward has been golden for Audi. Well, except for the B8 which had issues with oil and rings until its facelift. Though that was the 2.0 and not the 3.0. When discussing ownership, most people keep their cars for longer than the initial warranty period. I know you don't and prefer to sell your vehicles before they expire, except in the case of your BMW X5, where you'd take a hit because of the airbag. Pun not intended, LOL. I tend to purchase extended warranties so I can keep them a little longer and let the next generation work out its bugs before moving over. Which is why I'm sitting until the new E works out its niggles.

I wasn't very impressed with 2000s Audi, but I do like the reliability reports coming out now for the majority of their 2009-2010 lineup and later. Merc cleaned up their act around that time, too. I'm not sure about BMW, though. The biggest problem with domestic Euro imports I see are leaking oil filter housings and valve cover gaskets.

This doesn't seem to be an issue outside of North America, though. Despite the little niggles Euro imports have, I'd still rather buy them than a domestic car including Tesla or a Japanese car at this point, except Lexus. Can't go wrong with Lexus. I also wouldn't say no to an SQ7 TDI if it were offered here. Don't plan on getting another SUV, to be frank, but it's a beast of a machine. It looks miles ahead of the future X7.

If I didn't mind throwing money away, the Mazda CX-9 would be a fun drive even with its minor faults for 2-3 years and selling it off so the next person experiences the individual problems that will arise. I'm more interested in the upcoming new era of Lexus with their turbo charged engines. If there's an LC-F with a TT V8, I suspect a power limited version of that will make its way to the LS?

 

[2298754]

@Zenithal

Who needs the upcoming E63 AMG wagon when you could have this!?

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...lly-unveiled-The-wagon-we-ve-been-waiting-for

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/m...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Set to make its public debut at next week’s Geneva motor show, the new sporty estate brings an added degree of practicality to the second-generation Panamera line-up with a new four-plus-one seating layout, a large electronically operated tailgate, a significantly lower loading lip and an extra 20 litres of boot space.

“The Panamera Sport Turismo is a step forwards into a new market segment, but it retains all of the values and attributes characteristic of Porsche,” says Michael Mauer, head of Porsche’s design operations.

The Sport Turismo is the first Panamera model offer seating for up to three in the rear, rather than just two as with the liftback. The two full-sized individual rear outer seats are accompanied by a narrow and raised central rear seat, boosting overall accommodation to five. The central rear seat is, however, compromised for leg space owing to the central tunnel running down the centre of the floorpan and really only designed to accommodate children.

At launch, the Panamera Sport Turismo will be offered in five different model variants: the Panamera 4, Panamera 4S, Panamera 4S Diesel, Panamera 4 E-Hybrid and Panamera Turbo – all of which are planned to be on display at the Geneva motor show, which opens its doors to the public on 8 March.

UK pricing for the Panamera Sport Turismo is yet to be announced, although Porsche confirms it will start at €97,557 for the the Panamera 4 Sport Turismo and extend to €158,604 for the initial range topping Panamera Turbo Sport Turismo in Germany.

 

[0388631]

I saw the earlier. Because the Turbo S which would be the power equivalent of the E63 Wagon will be well over 230K or more with options I'd want. And the Merc is more understated, in a way. Though I'd be interested to see sales numbers for this upcoming wagon from Porsche after a year.

 

[AustinIllini]

As an owner, I hope to see continued improvement in reliability. I personally have not had any issues as it has been the best vehicle I have ever owned nearing 10k miles but they have a ways to go and older models have had reliability concerns.

Tesla is named ‘top American car brand’ by Consumer Reports, Audi and Porsche take global top spots

https://electrek.co/2017/02/28/tesla-top-american-car-brand-consumer-reports/

The technology is still quite expensive. The interiors on a Model S base model just don't justify the high price. That's all good and fine, but I wonder what a $30,000 model 3 will get you under the hood. If the technology isn't that much cheaper, the base model 3 isn't a luxury car.

 

[Cnasty]

The technology is still quite expensive. The interiors on a Model S base model just don't justify the high price. That's all good and fine, but I wonder what a $30,000 model 3 will get you under the hood. If the technology isn't that much cheaper, the base model 3 isn't a luxury car.

It is still very expensive as we all wait with baited breath to see how the 3 impacts not only Tesla but the genre itself in an affordable, finally stylish all EV.

I personally really love my Model S interior as its very minimal and the 2 screens and no buttons is very clean. That is a very specific opinion though and many still enjoy knobs and buttons.

I justify the high price of my S (which honestly after the $7500 tax break and fuel savings isn't much more than any other top brand out there such as BMW, Audi, Mercedes) with ease of use, fuel savings, and drive quality. It is easily the best ride in any vehicle I have ever had. Its the quickest car on the road and can get you into any spot you need to get to and the aerodynamics and design make this car glued to the road.

Not to mention the safety aspect.

I love waking up to a "full tank" every morning and it costing me no more than $20-$30 a month to charge versus the $600-$800 in gas I was spending (I drive a lot for work).

I feel like I am driving the future every single day and can never go back to a non-EV car at this point for me.

 

[D.T.]

Its the quickest car on the road and can get you into any spot you need to get to and the aerodynamics and design make this car glued to the road.

It's great you love your Telsa, I've been riding in them since they were first available, have as much experience as a person could have as a "non-owner". I'll even say, an EV in the near future isn't totally out of the question for us.

... but as a performance vehicle, it's very mediocre - and before anyone quotes the 0-60, for performance minded folks like myself, there's WAY more to performance than the one-trick-pony of 0-60. Heck, even the ultra high end P100D has a so-so MPH time in the 1/4 given it's short time.

Please don't take this as trying to be an ****** about your ride, I love some stuff about it, I think you're right on about it being the future of vehicle design, you also seem like a heck of a nice guy so I'd delete my post before I'd generate any bad mojo between us
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@Zenithal

Who needs the upcoming E63 AMG wagon when you could have this!?

Holy smokes, I can't believe how much I love this.

For me, it works WAY better as a wagon design vs. the weirdly proportioned long-back sedan.

 

[0388631]

Indeed it does. Honestly, I'd really have to see it in person. Since I'm skipping the initial 6-8 months of the E63's reign in that form, I'll take a look at that thing he posted. Chances are, to get it to where I'd want it, it'd cost some serious dough. Compared to the GL, it's a better driving car, offers better value even if it's slightly more expensive, and I'm likely going to score a lower price with the wagon over the GL. I just think there's better ways to spend an extra car's worth of options that would otherwise be standard with another German make.

I get a slight 928 vibe from it now than I did with the regular Panamara. I also get the feeling this is going to be the next hot thing with soccer moms. Good by Range Rovers and X5s, hello Panamara Wagons. I can already see my SiL driving one, Ugh.

 

[bunnspecial]

... but as a performance vehicle, it's very mediocre - and before anyone quotes the 0-60, for performance minded folks like myself, there's WAY more to performance than the one-trick-pony of 0-60. Heck, even the ultra high end P100D has a so-so MPH time in the 1/4 given it's short time.

It's also worth mentioning that without the "ludicrous speed" upgrade the Model S 0-60 times are pretty underwhelming when you put them next to much more mainstream production cars. The numbers I can find on the 2017 Model S 60 are 5.0s/13.6s seconds. A Corvette Stingray slaughters those numbers at 3.7s/11.9s, and is $20,000 less expensive.

 

[Cnasty]

It's great you love your Telsa, I've been riding in them since they were first available, have as much experience as a person could have as a "non-owner". I'll even say, an EV in the near future isn't totally out of the question for us.

... but as a performance vehicle, it's very mediocre - and before anyone quotes the 0-60, for performance minded folks like myself, there's WAY more to performance than the one-trick-pony of 0-60. Heck, even the ultra high end P100D has a so-so MPH time in the 1/4 given it's short time.

Please don't take this as trying to be an ****** about your ride, I love some stuff about it, I think you're right on about it being the future of vehicle design, you also seem like a heck of a nice guy so I'd delete my post before I'd generate any bad mojo between us

I liked your post and insight

That being said, I'm not a big performance guy and more of the everyday, dad taxi family driving, lots of miles comfort business guy? lol

When I say quickest, I think that term for me is easily the quickest car I have owned and you press and you instantly go with that EV torque. I dont get into 0-60 times and all that just making a statement that I have never had a car that so easily gets me into any spot on a highway or on ramp than this thing with how reactive it is and that punch.

Am I fanboying? You betcha! But for me and my personal needs, I could not own a better overall vehicle for what it has done for me in these short 10k miles and excited to see whats next.

Cheers!

 

[D.T.]

I liked your post and insight

That being said, I'm not a big performance guy and more of the everyday, dad taxi family driving, lots of miles comfort business guy? lol

When I say quickest, I think that term for me is easily the quickest car I have owned and you press and you instantly go with that EV torque. I dont get into 0-60 times and all that just making a statement that I have never had a car that so easily gets me into any spot on a highway or on ramp than this thing with how reactive it is and that punch.

Am I fanboying? You betcha! But for me and my personal needs, I could not own a better overall vehicle for what it has done for me in these short 10k miles and excited to see whats next.

Cheers!

Thanks, I really didn't want to sound negative, and what I said about performance would be better expressed as: while some models have a very impressive performance metric or two, the vehicle is less about providing a complete performance experience, and more about the positives you outlined as what you've experienced as an owner

 

[2298754]

Holy smokes, I can't believe how much I love this.

For me, it works WAY better as a wagon design vs. the weirdly proportioned long-back sedan.

100% agree. It is fantastic.

Now I need to find a bank to rob...
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I also get the feeling this is going to be the next hot thing with soccer moms. Good by Range Rovers and X5s, hello Panamara Wagons. I can already see my SiL driving one, Ugh.

Not when the new Cayenne is 6 months away and will be cheaper. I wonder how many they plan on selling...

 

[quagmire]

Progress is being made! My car has left the factory and was delivered to the rail yard! Now just waiting to get on a train to head to the distribution center then a truck to my dealer..... It's getting closer to the day it will be delivered to me.

 

[0388631]

Not when the new Cayenne is 6 months away and will be cheaper. I wonder how many they plan on selling...

Yeah, if you want the base model. A decent trim Cayenne with necessary options that would otherwise be standard on other makes, including other VAG vehicles, except Lamborghini. The Cayenne is already popular with several soccer moms on our street. I jokingly call them that because they're still professionals. Their kids just play soccer. Definition of the pejorative.

Besides, the new wagon will likely have more boot space and possibly better fold down rear. Massive amounts of space to move crates of chardonnay when the kids aren't riding in.

As for financing, 8-15K down should get you roughly the same rates for lease vs buy. The issue here is two-fold. You can get the wagon and Porsche may stop selling it due to low sales, and it'll be rare like the CTS-V Wagon or even the currently selling AMG wagon, and thus retain its value. Actually, I think all E Wagons hold their value fairly well because of their rarity.

Or it'll become more popular than the Cayenne resulting in resale values to plummet and Cayenne values to increase. But regardless, if it's a financial success for Porsche in NA and EU, then it's going to fuel some better cars down the road for the purist.

Money to value comes into play more these days than it did six years ago. I got my GL for around $82K, including the better wheels and just about every available option, including an extended warranty and the care crap they had. I then haggled the price down and came about a grand or two under MSRP. Saving a great deal The salesman was a little peeved when he realized what had just happened, but we ended up becoming friends and building great rapport. I ended up buying two more Mercs from him in the years to follow, and plan on getting our next two from him as well.

Here's the point of my story. The new GL550 costs around 92K. With the options and everything I wanted months ago, the total would be around 128K. Honestly, at that price point, I'd rather spend the money on the E63 wagon, driving a normal ride height car as my daily driver and it's far cheaper than the GL550 and offers better value when you think about it. Better handling, better wheels and brakes, better engine, better interior, better resale value and it costs $105K, which is CHEAP for what you're getting. I think the only way that could be beat is if the Panamara Turbo wagon starts at a lower price and optioned out will be around $120K as the AMG wagon would with options or did on the last gen model when I optioned it out. That will never happen.

Realistically, the only contender would be an RS6, which won't ever happen and I'd still be wary of purchasing one, or BMW decide to bring a M5 touring/wagon to the states, which won't happen either. It'd have to perform the same as the Merc and be at a lower price point with the same or near-same options.


BMW had some promo photos of their new 5er Touring, which I think you or I posted, and I think it looks phenomenal. I also think the 4er Gran Coupe looks divine, but I have strange tastes.

 

[0388631]

New Disco looks nice. The Velar... Not a fan. Mid life refresh for the GS brings the the 2 liter turbo, which still hasn't been adjusted to fix its faults. BRING THE V6 TWIN TURBO ALREADY, LEXUS. The older I get the more impatient I get with companies holding back their best products. It used to be the opposite back in the day. If you wanted the slow PoS of the lineup, you'd have to wait or pray the expensive stuff got cheaper. Now you get the boring slow stuff first and the good stuff later on, when you've got hair growing out of your ears.

 

[takao]

according to Reuters the GM-PSA Opel deal will be officially announced Monday morning. Since Reuters was spot on in their early reporting on other PSA news the last years (Dongfeng deal etc.) i suspect that this reporting is true as well. I guess they have PSA insider sources.

According to some sources GM added some non-compete clauses so that PSA can't sell Opels based on GM tech in markets GM sells cars under a different brand based on the same tech.
With the new Insignia just released that makes sense, since i guess that would be cannbalizing Buick sales in China.

With this deal GM will be pretty much giving up on the european market (their last two models are the chevrolet camaro and the corvette !) and put them into the 6th place in world wide sales.
Their efforts to introduce chevrolet or cadillac as brands failed miserable the last few times they tried it, so is there an option left to buy themselves back in at a later date ? All the remaining European Car makers seem too big in size now for a take over and actually succesfull sub brands in the hand of companies unwilling to sell.

 

[2298754]

New Disco looks nice. The Velar... Not a fan. Mid life refresh for the GS brings the the 2 liter turbo, which still hasn't been adjusted to fix its faults. BRING THE V6 TWIN TURBO ALREADY, LEXUS. The older I get the more impatient I get with companies holding back their best products. It used to be the opposite back in the day. If you wanted the slow PoS of the lineup, you'd have to wait or pray the expensive stuff got cheaper. Now you get the boring slow stuff first and the good stuff later on, when you've got hair growing out of your ears.

I dig the Disco 5 and Velar, but the pricing on the Velar is nuts. You're within $5k of a Range Rover Sport.

JLR has too much overlap in their lineup. Between $60-80k, they'll sell you a Disco 5, RRS, RRV, and F Pace.