The Car Thread ... !

[pukifloyd]

Hello Everyone! First time poster on this thread, loving what you guys post! I'm a big car guy I recently bought my first ever car - 2015 Hyundai Elantra as a college student, this car fits my needs perfectly and doesn't look too boring either. Here are some pictures of her.

My plan is to keep this car for another year or so (till I graduate) and then jump into Mercedes. I'm loving what they're doing with with the new models...would love to own an S class but that won't be possible right after college I'm really digging the CLA or C class. Waiting for the new Camaro too (May, right?) and might be interested in an entry level Audi if they decide to change the design a little bit between now and next year.

 

[AustinIllini]

Well this is not for me, this is my 29 year old sister who's an oral surgery resident. She is coming from an 07 Grand Cherokee Overland with QuadraDrive II. Up until a couple years ago I drove an 04 Grand Cherokee Limited with QuadraDrive. There are very few stock vehicles that have 4WD systems that can compare, except maybe a G-class with its manual locking diffs. Even the Jeeps QuadraDrive IMO blow my fathers's Range Rover Sport w/the HD package (rear auto locking diff) out of the water when it comes to traction.

Now your comparing apples and oranges here. We're talking about reliable sub $30,000 new/cpo SUVs with decent gas mileage. Now you're recomending Audis, G-Wagons and Land Cruisers. Maybe in a few year when she actually make a doctor's salary... For now she is not going off-road in this car or towing anything. She's driving to work and back. Point noted on the Honda. I will have to do my research on the others.

Check out the below video. Here's why you DON'T get the Honda. The rear wheels are not able to provide adequate power when traction is lost in front. Not AWD. Honda's AWD system of value is SH-AWD, which is only available on Acuras in the United States.

The Subaru is the best choice, IMHO. AWD 60-40 front biased standard on all models. More reliable than a Jeep by a long shot.

 

[2298754]

Do NOT buy a RAV4, CX5, CRV, Rogue or the like with AWD. Useless. FWD based and only kicks in 10% rear power when slippage detected, and its slow. Waste of money, just do winter tires and hope for the best. Plague by reliability problems in the under engineered systems.

Valid point. Most of these mini-utes use front-biased systems that send power back if they detect slippage. However, the RAV4 isn't all that bad. I think it has the same AWD system as my father's different Toyota and that thing was a tank in the snow this year. Of course, it does have proper set of fresh all-seasons on it though.

If you want AWD look to Subaru, Audi Quattro, VW 4motion, or a truck based system with a Torsen differential like GWagen, FJ Cruiser, or Lexus ??470 something.

Besides the Touareg (uses Torsen like most Audis), VW 4Motion is mostly Haldex, which means front wheel drive, unless slippage occurs. However, the system is not as pathetic as the various Japanese ones. It actually does send the power back quickly. A Tiguan 4Motion will drive circles around a CRV/CX5, etc in the snow with the same tires.

My neighbor has an Audi Q3 with the Haldex system and he had no issues driving down the street with 1+ ft of snow. I was quite impressed.

----------

Now your comparing apples and oranges here. We're talking about reliable sub $30,000 new/cpo SUVs with decent gas mileage. Now you're recomending Audis, G-Wagons and Land Cruisers. Maybe in a few year when she actually make a doctor's salary... For now she is not going off-road in this car or towing anything. She's driving to work and back. Point noted on the Honda. I will have to do my research on the others.

If she's looking at sedans too, how about a CPO E90? 328xi? Get a proper set of all-seasons on it and it will be every bit as good as these "SUVs" The N52 engine engine is also bulletproof. Zero issues with it, unlike the N55 that is plagued with turbo/HPFP/carbon buildup issues

----------

Hello Everyone! First time poster on this thread, loving what you guys post! I'm a big car guy I recently bought my first ever car - 2015 Hyundai Elantra as a college student, this car fits my needs perfectly and doesn't look too boring either. Here are some pictures of her.

Congrats on the Elantra! It's one of the better cars in its class. I'm always impressed with the amount of tech that Hyundai can cram in these cars for its price. They even have heated seats in the back!

My plan is to keep this car for another year or so (till I graduate) and then jump into Mercedes. I'm loving what they're doing with with the new models...would love to own an S class but that won't be possible right after college I'm really digging the CLA or C class. Waiting for the new Camaro too (May, right?) and might be interested in an entry level Audi if they decide to change the design a little bit between now and next year.

The CLA is trash, compared to the Audi A3. The interior is dreadful and doesn't feel like a luxury car. The A3's interior is every bit as good as the A4 and comes with other perks like standard Bi-Xenons, leather, pano roof, etc. All optional on the stupid CLA

----------

Check out the below video. Here's why you DON'T get the Honda. The rear wheels are not able to provide adequate power when traction is lost in front. Not AWD. Honda's AWD system of value is SH-AWD, which is only available on Acuras in the United States.

The Subaru is the best choice, IMHO. AWD 60-40 front biased standard on all models. More reliable than a Jeep by a long shot.

While I agree with Subaru's superiority when it comes to AWD systems (I live in Subie country and have owned an Outback myself), these videos are biased crap. I wouldn't be surprised if Subaru turned off TCS/ESC, etc and pulled the ABS fuse on all the other cars, so they don't perform correctly.

EDIT: I just watched the Subie video. It is horribly outdated. All of those cars have been replaced. The legacy they're showing in the video is 2 generations old. Even the Highlander is 2 generations old.

There's a similar video showing the "merits" of the SH-AWD system on a MDX and comparing it to the Audi Q7. The Q7 just sits there on the icy hill spinning its wheels. In real life, it doesn't do that at all... And I speak from experience because I've owned a Q7 and drove it in the winter for over 3 years.

 

[AustinIllini]

While I agree with Subaru's superiority when it comes to AWD systems (I live in Subie country and have owned an Outback myself), these videos are biased crap. I wouldn't be surprised if Subaru turned off TCS/ESC, etc and pulled the ABS fuse on all the other cars, so they don't perform correctly.

There's a similar video showing the "merits" of the SH-AWD system on a MDX and comparing it to the Audi Q7. The Q7 just sits there on the icy hill spinning its wheels. In real life, it doesn't do that at all... And I speak from experience because I've owned a Q7 and drove it in the winter for over 3 years.

Subaru AWD > Honda AWD (the cheap CR-V one)
SH-AWD > Honda AWD

These are the only arguments I'm making. Audi quattro is not a piece of the video I posted. Subaru AWD and Quattro basically result in the same performance in inclement weather.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Check out the below video. Here's why you DON'T get the Honda. The rear wheels are not able to provide adequate power when traction is lost in front. Not AWD. Honda's AWD system of value is SH-AWD, which is only available on Acuras in the United States.

YouTube: video

The Subaru is the best choice, IMHO. AWD 60-40 front biased standard on all models. More reliable than a Jeep by a long shot.

Yeah, I saw a similar video with a newer version of the CRV with the same issue. It doesn't look like Toyota's system is much better, in fact possibly worse having more substantial torque steer.

I'm not sure why this video makes such a big deal about TC reducing engine power, it will do that any car by design. Even in a 50F/50R or a 50F/25RR/25RL locked vehicle if all the wheels are slipping, TC will slow the engine. The only reason some of the cars did not have this issue was because the torque was successfully transferred to the rear so there wasn't substantial slippage.

I'm forwarding these findings to her but I'm not entirely sure how much a factor it is for her considering another possible alternative would be a FWD sedan, in which case this would still be a more effective system. Her first car was a 2000 Grand Cherokee (purchased in 2002), and her current car is a 2007 Grand Cherokee (purchased in 2009). The QuadraDrive II system combines a center locking differential with front and rear electric variable locking differentials, in addition to traction control. The entire system is automatic aside from putting it in Low Range which I am sure she has never done. . In that sense a think a Forester would be a better fit than RAV4, CRV, etc since she is used to a very capable vehicle. Still, the Subaru compared to the Jeep is still way behind.

I don't think she's ruled out a newer Grand Cherokee yet, but I think she's leaning towards a vehicle with better fuel economy. Better reliability wouldn't hurt either. I'm biased towards the Grand Cherokee over everything, but in the small SUV segment I'd have to agree with most people here and say the Subaru is the model to get.

Another thing I think she needs to consider other than AWD/4WD capability is the fact that she's going from an Overland Grand Cherokee (top spec in it's day) to something potentially not as nice. The Overland has leather & suede, navigation, sat radio, bluetooth, real wood trim, etc. While Jeeps (especially of that era) didn't have the best fit and finish, I'm not sure she's really considered what an entry level vehicle will be like.

I think the problem is she doesn't know what she wants or maybe really even care. In the past, daddy just picked out her car and bought it for her. Now that she's a big girl, she has to be an adult and make her own choices.

 

[2298754]

Another thing I think she needs to consider other than AWD/4WD capability is the fact that she's going from an Overland Grand Cherokee (top spec in it's day) to something potentially not as nice. The Overland has leather & suede, navigation, sat radio, bluetooth, real wood trim, etc. While Jeeps (especially of that era) didn't have the best fit and finish, I'm not sure she's really considered what an entry level vehicle will be like.

New Jeep Renegade?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Renegade_(BU)

 

[AustinIllini]

Yeah, I saw a similar video with a newer version of the CRV with the same issue. It doesn't look like Toyota's system is much better, in fact possibly worse having more substantial torque steer.

I'm not sure why this video makes such a big deal about TC reducing engine power, it will do that any car by design. Even in a 50F/50R or a 50F/25RR/25RL locked vehicle if all the wheels are slipping, TC will slow the engine. The only reason some of the cars did not have this issue was because the torque was successfully transferred to the rear.

I'm forwarding these findings to her but I'm not entirely sure how much a factor it is for her considering another possible alternative would be a FWD sedan, in which case this would still be a more effective system. Her first car was a 2000 Grand Cherokee (purchased in 2002), and her current car is a 2007 Grand Cherokee (purchased in 2009). The QuadraDrive II system combines a center locking differential with front and rear electric variable locking differentials, in addition to traction control. The entire system is automatic aside from putting it in Low Range which I am sure she has never done. . In that sense a think a Forester would be a better fit than RAV4, CRV, etc since she is used to a very capable vehicle. Still, the Subaru compared to the Jeep is still way behind.

I don't think she's ruled out a newer Grand Cherokee yet, but I think she's leaning towards a vehicle with better fuel economy. Better reliability wouldn't hurt either. I'm biased towards the Grand Cherokee over everything, but in the small SUV segment I'd have to agree with most people here and say the Subaru is the model to get.

Another thing I think she needs to consider other than AWD/4WD capability is the fact that she's going from an Overland Grand Cherokee (top spec in it's day) to something potentially not as nice. The Overland has leather & suede, navigation, sat radio, bluetooth, real wood trim, etc. While Jeeps (especially of that era) didn't have the best fit and finish, I'm not sure she's really considered what an entry level vehicle will be like.

Cool man. Despite the silly look, I suggest the Jeep Cherokee is worth a look, too. The Italians at Fiat have made that interior gorgeous.

 

[A.Goldberg]

If she's looking at sedans too, how about a CPO E90? 328xi? Get a proper set of all-seasons on it and it will be every bit as good as these "SUVs" The N52 engine engine is also bulletproof. Zero issues with it, unlike the N55 that is plagued with turbo/HPFP/carbon buildup issues

I don't think she wants to buy a german vehicle. If she was looking for a sedan, I'd say a CPO Volvo S60 T5 AWD would fit her needs perfectly.

My parents good friends own a dealership chain that includes Subaru, Volvo, VW, Land Rover, Chrysler/Dodge. So if she buys from them they'll probably give her the discount my mom got on her Volvo and my dad on his Range Rover.

The Renegade is an interesting idea. I didn't even think of that.
Edit: Though I'm not sure I'd consider the interior "gorgeous" but still way better than what they had before. With more thought I think the Asians probably offer a better product than the Italians. I know someone who just bought a new Cherokee that suffered catastrophic issues with the front differential/axles a few hundred miles after buying it. Not to say that's normal, but the Cherokee release was delayed due to transmission issues.

 

[2298754]

Cool man. Despite the silly look, I suggest the Jeep Cherokee is worth a look, too. The Italians at Fiat have made that interior gorgeous.

Interior isn't bad, but the car has been plagued with quality issues, since it came out. The ZF 9AT is junk. A old high school buddy of mine is now a MOPAR tech and says to stay away for now. Just go a quick google search about the new Cherokee.

----------

I don't think she wants to buy a german vehicle. If she was looking for a sedan, I'd say a CPO Volvo S60 T5 AWD would fit her needs perfectly.

My parents good friends own a dealership chain that includes Subaru, Volvo, VW, Land Rover, Chrysler/Dodge. So if she buys from them they'll probably give her the discount my mom got on her Volvo and my dad on his Range Rover.

Yeah, with that perk, you might as well stick to those brands. Another sedan worth considering is the VW CC with the 3.6 and 4Motion. I had one briefly (2.0T/DSG trim) and always regretted selling it. Only issue with it would be the tight rear seats.

The Renegade is an interesting idea. I didn't even think of that.

Seems like a perfect car for a female. Small and has a "macho" look to it. Not to mention, it's still a Jeep and will have a solid AWD system.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Yeah, with that perk, you might as well stick to those brands. Another sedan worth considering is the VW CC with the 3.6 and 4Motion. I had one briefly (2.0T/DSG trim) and always regretted selling it. Only issue with it would be the tight rear seats.


Seems like a perfect car for a female. Small and has a "macho" look to it. Not to mention, it's still a Jeep and will have a solid AWD system.

After a my mom's Allroad I don't think my dad would ever let anyone in my family buy a VW/Audi product. VW's reliability is crap right now, though the CC is based off the older version of the Passat which if I remember correctly did alright. I think the 4 seat setup might be an issue with her, though I'm not sure.

What I personally dislike about the Renegade is its name- way to ruin a legendary name. I'd be concerned about it turning into an Italian-American Horror Story. At least the Grand Cherokee has been around, she'd probably buy an earlier version before Fiat got their hands on it (pre 2013?)

 

[2298754]

After a my mom's Allroad I don't think my dad would ever let anyone in my family buy a VW/Audi product. VW's reliability is crap right now, though the CC is based off the older version of the Passat which if I remember correctly did alright. I think the 4 seat setup might be an issue with her, though I'm not sure.

Yeah, reliability is all over the place for VW. The CC has been around long enough that, hopefully, it doesn't fall apart.

What I personally dislike about the Renegade is its name- way to ruin a legendary name. I'd be concerned about it turning into an Italian-American Horror Story. At least the Grand Cherokee has been around, she'd probably buy an earlier version before Fiat got their hands on it (pre 2013?)

Something like that. It's pretty cool that the current JGC is actually based on the W166 Mercedes Benz.

2014 for the "refresh" with the better interior, but I don't trust Fiat quality... at all.

 

[D.T.]

Check out the below video. Here's why you DON'T get the Honda. The rear wheels are not able to provide adequate power when traction is lost in front. Not AWD. Honda's AWD system of value is SH-AWD, which is only available on Acuras in the United States.

YouTube: video

The Subaru is the best choice, IMHO. AWD 60-40 front biased standard on all models. More reliable than a Jeep by a long shot.

Hahaha, our T4R would drive up that ramp while towing any of those cars backwards against their own power

 

[pukifloyd]

Congrats on the Elantra! It's one of the better cars in its class. I'm always impressed with the amount of tech that Hyundai can cram in these cars for its price. They even have heated seats in the back!

The CLA is trash, compared to the Audi A3. The interior is dreadful and doesn't feel like a luxury car. The A3's interior is every bit as good as the A4 and comes with other perks like standard Bi-Xenons, leather, pano roof, etc. All optional on the stupid CLA

Thanks! It was a hard choice between Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla and the Elantra, but Hyundai's service, past record, and the elantra's looks attracted me the most. Very happy so far

I agree with you that A3 seems like a better car, but honestly I'm quite bored with Audi's design. I have only driven CLA so far, so I can't say anything about that comparison. I was looking into C class too, because it seems like a much better car than CLA. I still have about a year to decide, so hopefully I'll have better cars to compare by then!

I also find the new Dodge Chargers and Challengers very exciting cars, as well as the new Cadillacs. Yeah I know that they're totally different cars, but that's just me: one day I want a pure american muscle, the other day I want something classy and luxury.

 

[Menel]

Interior isn't bad, but the car has been plagued with quality issues, since it came out. The ZF 9AT is junk. A old high school buddy of mine is now a MOPAR tech and says to stay away for now. Just go a quick google search about the new Cherokee.

----------



Yeah, with that perk, you might as well stick to those brands. Another sedan worth considering is the VW CC with the 3.6 and 4Motion. I had one briefly (2.0T/DSG trim) and always regretted selling it. Only issue with it would be the tight rear seats.


Seems like a perfect car for a female. Small and has a "macho" look to it. Not to mention, it's still a Jeep and will have a solid AWD system.

ZF 9AT is good enough for Honda to put in their Acura lux boats.
Something else jeep did if its ****.

 

[Menel]

Seems like a perfect car for a female. Small and has a "macho" look to it. Not to mention, it's still a Jeep and will have a solid AWD system.

That remains to be seen, I'm skeptical it's built in Italy by Fiat on the 500x platform.

It has a torsion bar rear suspension.
And is likely FWD based, I wouldn't be surprised if it's awd isn't too different from a reactive FWD based system like in CRV.

It is cutesy though.

 

[2298754]

ZF 9AT is good enough for Honda to put in their Acura lux boats.
Something else jeep did if its ****.

Nope. They're still trash in the Honda+ cars.

http://www.tflcar.com/2014/12/tfl-e...l-notice-due-to-9-speed-transmission-problem/

http://blog.caranddriver.com/holy-s...ses-third-software-update-for-jeep-cherokee/#.

 

[Menel]

I'm not sure why this video makes such a big deal about TC reducing engine power, it will do that any car by design. Even in a 50F/50R or a 50F/25RR/25RL locked vehicle if all the wheels are slipping, TC will slow the engine. The only reason some of the cars did not have this issue was because the torque was successfully transferred to the rear so there wasn't substantial slippage.

TC (Traction Control) doesn't often take throttle away. Typical it's brake based. Applies brakes individually to the wheel which is slipping, to encourage torque to transfer to the other wheels which have grip.

It's kind of the opposite of ABS (Anti-Lock-Breaks) which release your brakes in pulses when they lock up.

You might be thinking of VDC (Vehicle Dynamic Control) which tries to sense a total loss of traction, spin out, and reduce/removes throttle to hopefully bring the vehicle back inline.

You have to have a pretty sophisticated transmission/transaxle and differentials to control torque to individual wheels. I think you get this in the higher end sportier stuff. Honda SH-AWD? maybe. Nissan GTR maybe. A well equipped Land Rover might.

----------

Nope. They're still trash in the Honda+ cars.

http://www.tflcar.com/2014/12/tfl-e...l-notice-due-to-9-speed-transmission-problem/

http://blog.caranddriver.com/holy-s...ses-third-software-update-for-jeep-cherokee/#.

LOL thats f'd up

Honda their V6's paired with autos. Their old Odysssey's and Accords in the 2000's had severe issues to.

I like the idea of the push button transmission panel... other than dripping coffee down in it. All the soccer mom slushbox cars with the big shift lever which is only actuating an electronic switch between is hilariously silly.

 

[A.Goldberg]

TC (Traction Control) doesn't often take throttle away. Typical it's brake based. Applies brakes individually to the wheel which is slipping, to encourage torque to transfer to the other wheels which have grip.

It's kind of the opposite of ABS (Anti-Lock-Breaks) which release your brakes in pulses when they lock up.

You might be thinking of VDC (Vehicle Dynamic Control) which tries to sense a total loss of traction, spin out, and reduce/removes throttle to hopefully bring the vehicle back inline.

I understand what TC control is and have been driving in the snowy New England weather my entire life. I've driven many cars with strictly TC (that is no stability control) that have reduced the power. I've seen throttle reduction on Volvo, BMW, Toyota/Lexus, VW/Audi, Land Rover, etc. The rational is spinning the wheels too quickly will not provide any assistance. Furthermore spinning the tires at a high speed and applying the brakes is probably more detrimental to braking system than a lower speed. In a condition like snow the tires will ice over. In sand, the tires will just dig into the ground.

To quote Wikipedia:

Intervention consists of one or more of the following:
Brake force applied to one or more wheels
Reduction or suppression of spark sequence to one or more cylinders
Reduction of fuel supply to one or more cylinders
Closing the throttle, if the vehicle is fitted with drive by wire throttle
In turbocharged vehicles, a boost control solenoid is actuated to reduce boost and therefore engine power.

To quote Jalopink:

Traction control monitors wheel speed using ABS wheel speed sensors. If a wheel is slipping, traction control reduces engine power to help the wheel regain traction. If necessary, traction control can also apply the brakes to the slipping wheel.

To quote HowStuffWorks:

However, some traction-control systems also reduce engine power to the slipping wheels. On a few of these vehicles, drivers may sense pulsations of the gas pedal when the system is reducing engine power much like a brake pedal pulsates when the antilock braking system is working

While I suppose some cars may rely solely on brake intervention, this has not been my particular experience. I'd guess that the more sophisticated systems will control the throttle as well. Like I said, some of these vehicles including Volvo, VW, Audi, and Land Rover that were not equipped with TC. My brother used to have a LR Discovery II and prior an Audi A4, both of which were TC only vehicles only, both of which reduced throttle response.

Edit: I see you're from Atlanta. Unless you drive on ice, snow, or mud or some situation where you'd really have the possibility of getting stuck, the throttle reduction probably wouldn't be noticeable (ie accerating on a wet road)

 

[bunnspecial]

I understand what TC control is and have been driving in the snowy New England weather my entire life. I've driven many cars with strictly TC (that is no stability control) that have reduced the power. I've seen throttle reduction on Volvo, BMW, Toyota/Lexus, VW/Audi, Land Rover, etc. The rational is spinning the wheels too quickly will not provide any assistance. Furthermore spinning the tires at a high speed and applying the brakes is probably more detrimental to braking system than a lower speed. In a condition like snow the tires will ice over. In sand, the tires will just dig into the ground.

I've driven my fair share of TC and ESC equipped vehicles of various makes, and can confirm that at least all the systems I've used reducing the throttle is definitely part of the "formula."

My current vehicle has ESC, and I honestly don't notice the engine power dropping down when I do something like take a slippery curve too fast or take off too fast from a wet gravel parking lot. It's definitely noticeable, though, when one is all-out stuck in snow or ice(as has happened to me a few times even in the past month). In fact, at times I've found my self cycling the ESC on and off to try and help "dig out" from snow. Most recently, I was stuck trying to pull into my parking space at my apartment, and a neighbor was kind enough to help me push my car while his girlfriend stepped on the gas and steered it into place. I turned off the ESC before I got out to push, as from experience I knew that having the wheels spinning was more helpful to us when pushing than trying to fight both the brakes and the engine braking. BTW, yes, we did get it in the spot.

 

[AustinIllini]

Interior isn't bad, but the car has been plagued with quality issues, since it came out. The ZF 9AT is junk. A old high school buddy of mine is now a MOPAR tech and says to stay away for now. Just go a quick google search about the new Cherokee.

----------



Yeah, with that perk, you might as well stick to those brands. Another sedan worth considering is the VW CC with the 3.6 and 4Motion. I had one briefly (2.0T/DSG trim) and always regretted selling it. Only issue with it would be the tight rear seats.


Seems like a perfect car for a female. Small and has a "macho" look to it. Not to mention, it's still a Jeep and will have a solid AWD system.

That totally explains the plummet on US News' website. When it was ranked by predicted reliability, it did quite well. Since then reliability has soured its ranking.

----------

Nope. They're still trash in the Honda+ cars.

http://www.tflcar.com/2014/12/tfl-e...l-notice-due-to-9-speed-transmission-problem/

http://blog.caranddriver.com/holy-s...ses-third-software-update-for-jeep-cherokee/#.

It boggles my mind why Honda would go with the ZF for the V6 TL and not develop their own transmission. Transmissions (6MT and the new DCT) are a true strength on their cars. It makes no sense to put the ZF in.

 

[quagmire]

I also find the new Dodge Chargers and Challengers very exciting cars, as well as the new Cadillacs. Yeah I know that they're totally different cars, but that's just me: one day I want a pure american muscle, the other day I want something classy and luxury.

The only remaining American muscle are the Dodges. Ford and GM have made their vehicles more athletic. I would lump the Cadillac's under the classy and luxury category.

 

[A.Goldberg]

I've driven my fair share of TC and ESC equipped vehicles of various makes, and can confirm that at least all the systems I've used reducing the throttle is definitely part of the "formula.

Yes, now that I think of it I don't think I've driven any TC equipped vehicle that hasn't reduced power. I will say that the Toyota/Lexus products I've driven in the snow (ES350, Land Cruiser, and Prius) do seem to be less inclined to decrease the throttle as quickly as other vehicles I've driven.

A number of cars are now offered with systems like these since one formula of TC doesn't fit all conditions, Land Rover being the pioneer of this. My father has a Range Rover Sport with the Terrain Response system- a knob you twist to select the driving surface. It's a gimmick but having played around with it I can tell you it will change the way the throttle and TC functions, amongst other things. If you put it in snow mode the throttle response is slower, TC prevents more wheel spin, and it decreases the throttle more (too much wheel spin = icing). If you put it in sand mode the throttle response is slower, the TC is less active, and the throttle is less inhibited (allowing some wheel spin is better driving in sand because the goal is to maintain momentum). Rock crawl makes the throttle response really slow and the TC allows for little wheel spin. The new Land/Range Rovers now supposedly can automatically detect the driving conditions and adjust the car accordingly. Other brands, like Subaru and VW have an "offroad mode" that alters some of these aforementioned settings. I'm sure we'll see things like this adopted by more and more cars.

 

[2298754]

That totally explains the plummet on US News' website. When it was ranked by predicted reliability, it did quite well. Since then reliability has soured its ranking.

Yeah, it's pretty bad. Last time I talked to my buddy, he would tell me horror stories of sub-500 mile Cherokees needing new engines/transmissions. And the best story yet was about a brand new loaded 200C. They were showing the remote start feature to a potential customer and the whole thing went up in smokes. Fried the wiring/ECU, etc. They had to send the car back to Chrysler for further evaluation.

It boggles my mind why Honda would go with the ZF for the V6 TL and not develop their own transmission. Transmissions (6MT and the new DCT) are a true strength on their cars. It makes no sense to put the ZF in.

Simple reason, Honda R&D has been lagging for a long time. Their manuals are fantastic, but their automatics have been trash. Not to mention, they stuck with 5 speeds for too long. They only recently started pushing the 6 speed across their lineups, while everyone else went to 7/8.

It saves them a significant amount of money (and time) by just "buying" one from a reputable maker, like ZF. It seems almost every OEM these days is using the ZF 8AT, one of the best transmissions on the market. I guess this was a bad move because ZF 9AT has been having so many problems.

It's nice to see Honda finally modernizing their transmissions by spreading the 9AT slowly across the lineup, even though it seems too much too late.

EDIT: I had a 200C rental car last weekend and the 9AT was terrible. It rolls backwards when switching between the modes. I haven't had a transmission do that in years, even with all the VW/Audi DSG cars I've owned. My S7's S-Tronic doesn't do that. Come on Chrysler...

----------

I would lump the Cadillac's under the classy and luxury category.

I'm not sure "classy" is the correct term for current Cadillacs. I like the styling, but it is too "in your face" and has too much chrome to be luxurious. It is borderline bling-tastic.

 

[quagmire]

I'm not sure "classy" is the correct term for current Cadillacs. I like the styling, but it is too "in your face" and has too much chrome to be luxurious. It is borderline bling-tastic.

I would certainly describe the Escalade as being in your face, but they have toned down the A&S theme for the ATS, CTS, and the CT6 from that quick shot on the Cadillac ad.

 

[2298754]

I would certainly describe the Escalade as being in your face, but they have toned down the A&S theme for the ATS, CTS, and the CT6 from that quick shot on the Cadillac ad.

ATS-V looks like a pep-boys special, but I'm sure it drives superbly.