The Car Thread ... !

[2298754]

Looks very nice. How is the interior quality?

Best in class, by far. It's no S Class. There are some cheap plastic touches here and there, but MB really stepped up their game. Audi, who has always been the king of interiors, has their work cut out for them with the B9 A4.

The current BMW 3 series feels like a rental car in comparison to the Mercedes. My favorite touches, by far, are the open-pore wood and the machined speaker grills for the Burnmester sound system!

I haven't been a new one yet? I've driven the previous model, ~2011 C300 Sport 4Matic, specifically, and was not thrilled. The ride was super harsh, the engine just did not seem powerful enough, throttle lag was substantial, and the interior quality had a lot of cheap parts.

I drove a new C400 a few weeks ago. It's not "sporty" like an S4 or 335xi M Sport, but it is quite good. The harsh ride and terrible interior have been fixed. Not to mention, I quite like the looks of it. Very upscale. The new V6TT is a masterpiece.

The ~2011 C Class wasn't good at all. I've always thought it sold because of the badge.

I've been in the generation before that, which was 1000x worse in terms of quality.

Oh god, early 2000s Mercedes were just terrible. I remember my father had an ML from that era. He kept it a year and traded it in for a Toyota. Hasn't looked back since.

The CLA is a joke to me.

I don't get why anyone would buy the CLA. It is terrible. The Audi A3 is the same price, but feels way more upscale. It's a shame because the CLA seems to popular around Boston.

 

[AustinIllini]

V6 ecoboost F150 towing capacity is 11,300 lbs. It's 0-60 is faster.

V8 F150 towing capacity is 10,000 lbs.

Puma can make up situations where one is better than the other. But the economy, towing capacity, and acceleration are better on the V6.

Reliability is all speculation.

 

[2298754]

Interior - while I do like the Lexus IS interior and the sports leather seats more, I don't find anything cheap in the C except for the standard stereo. Every magazine review basically said it's a mini S class. The iPad like system feels abit weird though, looks like a after thought in the design.

Do you have the MB-Tex? Maybe that's why. Lexus leather quality has always been fantastic. The Lexus IS has a quality interior too, but does also have its share of cheap plastics (under the screen by the climate controls)

The one that thing that really pisses me off about the IS is when you buy an AWD version. The diff intrudes into the DRIVER footwell. Come on Lexus...

Steering - last BMW I drove was a 2009 128i 6 speed my wife had, I think that car is pretty close to being perfect and the new C is close to it, definitely not as stiff but it has a nice feedback.

It's a shame that even current BMWs lack that steering feel now. The switch to EPS really killed it for them.

Engine - it has loads of torque for being a small 4 cyclinder car. One of two reasons why I choose this over the IS250.

I never understood why Lexus STILL sells the old 2.5 V6. It was, and always will be, a terrible engine. Underpowered, poor MPG, lack of torque. Their new 2.0T needs to be put into the IS.

 

[bunnspecial]

All of your points are all valid, but yes, forced induction has come a LONG way, even in the last 5 or so years. While I am sad that we don't see NA engines that much anymore, the Germans have, honestly, done such a fantastic job with forced induction. Turbo4/5/6/8 cylinders. All fantastic power plants.

Look at VW. As much as I hate the current Jetta and Passat, the 1.8T and 2.0T engines completely transform the cars into good cars.

Hell, even Diesel technology has improved so much. Who would've thought PORSCHE would be selling us a diesel in the US?

Please go out there and test drive these cars. You will be surprised. I wasn't the biggest fan of diesel, until my old VW sold me on it. Now I'm on my second diesel, but this time, it's a BMW.

I should clarify that when I'm talking about forced induction diesels, I'm pretty much referring to "big" engines-from the 6L or so engines in diesel pick-ups to the 4000HP V-16s used in GE's Dash 9 series locomotives. From my understanding of diesel technology, 4-stroke diesels pretty much don't exist without some form of forced induction(usually a turbocharger). The turbocharger on engines in this size class dictates a LOT of turbo lag, and as expected the turbo lag is pretty much proportional to the size of the engine. Products of the American Locomotive Company(ALCo), which has been out of business for a while, have a reputation for "smoking like a steam engine" due to amount of smoke they would belch when accelerating.

It's not so much an issue in car-sized diesels(or gasoline engines for that matter), as the turbocharger is much smaller and I know some companies now use multiple, smaller turbos to even further reduce it.

Outside of 1 ton+ trucks, buses, and semis, I don't think I'm out of line in saying that diesels really just aren't that common in America. I don't doubt that some more modern designs are a lot more responsive than what many Americans think of when they think of diesels, but that's a trend that's going to be hard to shake.

 

[AustinIllini]

I never understood why Lexus STILL sells the old 2.5 V6. It was, and always will be, a terrible engine. Underpowered, poor MPG, lack of torque. Their new 2.0T needs to be put into the IS.

I don't get that either. My NA I4 is almost the same output as the IS.

 

[2298754]

I don't get that either. My NA I4 is almost the same output as the IS.

Probably gets way better MPG too. Stupid Lexus.

They get everything right with the 3IS, but throw that ancient boat anchor in there.

I'm also calling out the 2GR-FSE. It's been almost a decade. There is no excuse for Toyota to not have a forced induction V6 in the Lexus lineup at this point in time. With Toyota's R&D budget, you'd think they would have a German-killing turbo 6 out by now...

 

[AustinIllini]

Lots of car updates coming in from New York.

McLaren introduced its "Affordable" $180,000 570S

Subaru introduced a BRZ STi Concept

Honda's new Civic is the best looking so far, with a (FWD Nurburgring record shattering) Type-R confirmed for the US

Lexus Debuts its RX

GM announced a new Camry-like Chevy Malibu which is the best the car has looked arguably ever.

Porsche unveiled the Boxster Spyder

 

[puma1552]

V6 ecoboost F150 towing capacity is 11,300 lbs. It's 0-60 is faster.

V8 F150 towing capacity is 10,000 lbs.

Puma can make up situations where one is better than the other. But the economy, towing capacity, and acceleration are better on the V6.

Reliability is all speculation.

Lol, like you're a beacon of information on American trucks. Real world mileage is worse on the Ecoboost, many an actual owner on F150forum.com can tell you that.

And long term reliability is not speculation - decades have proven N/A V8 trucks to be reliable, the jury is out on the eco but it's pretty obvious that the simpler design is probably going to be the better bet 10+ years down the road, especially when both engines result in more or less the same numbers. After all, nobody's towing 10k+ with a half ton truck and nobody's drag racing a truck so the small differences in those two metrics don't really matter.

End of the day you pay more money upfront for the eco, have a more complex setup with more to go wrong (simple engineering is better engineering, take it from an engineer), and unknown long-term reliability with the disadvantage and very real world likelihood of a several thousand dollar turbo replacement at some point. And for what? Gas mileage that is worse or at best the same? Thousand pounds better towing and a fraction of a second better 0-60? There's just no real reason to buy an eco over a 5.0.

By the way, no need to refer to me in the third person as if you're making a case for yourself to an audience.

 

[2298754]

The Civic concept looks fantastic, especially after the crap they've been selling us the last few years. And it's coming with the 1.5 VTEC Turbo engine, which should be cool!

570S: Looks great, but I'm not sure I'd give up a 911 for one.

BRZ STI: Just a concept. Not coming into production

Lexus RX: overstyled on the outside, but the interior is beautiful.

Malibu: Looks good, but who cares. No one is gonna buy it. This segment is owned by Camcord

Boxster Spyder: Gorgeous car. No one was expecting this car at all.

 

[AustinIllini]

The Civic concept looks fantastic, especially after the crap they've been selling us the last few years. And it's coming with the 1.5 VTEC Turbo engine, which should be cool!

570S: Looks great, but I'm not sure I'd give up a 911 for one.

BRZ STI: Just a concept. Not coming into production

Lexus RX: overstyled on the outside, but the interior is beautiful.

Malibu: Looks good, but who cares. No one is gonna buy it. This segment is owned by Camcord

Boxster Spyder: Gorgeous car. No one was expecting this car at all.

I thought the exact same thing about the Malibu. The truth is, the Malibu name is tarnished.

 

[2298754]

I thought the exact same thing about the Malibu. The truth is, the Malibu name is tarnished.

You're correct. The Malibu has been an also-ran in this segment for a long time now. While GM was screwing around, The Japanese cemented their strong-hold.

Honestly, the Camry and Accord could be complete junk (they're not though) and it would still out-sell everything in the mid-size segment. That's how powerful the Toyota/Honda brand-name is these days.

The turbo engines look impressive, but I feel like they will run into the same problem Kia/Hyundai and Ford are running into. MPG numbers not living up to EPA ratings. The V6 CamCords are just as powerful as the 2.0T Optima/Sonata, but provide better real-world fuel economy (and far smoother).

 

[A.Goldberg]

I don't get why anyone would buy the CLA. It is terrible. The Audi A3 is the same price, but feels way more upscale. It's a shame because the CLA seems to popular around Boston.

There are way too many CLA's around Boston. It's just not an attractive car at all. The front bumper is too low as well- I've seen them scrape while crossing over the green line tracks. I like the A3 a lot, but the aesthetics of the interior are too strange.

---------------
The fact is that generally speaking, less cylinders = better gas mileage. That's what the market cares about for most of the cars out there right now. That is why all the developing is going into 4 and 6 cylinder engines and the turbos are supplementing the power. And soon there will be a lot more 3 cylinder engines in the market. If gas was cheap, we'd probably still be seeing a lot more V8 engines.

I think we all know HP is not everything. In the end, performance and driving dynamics is why I really care about. For most of us who use are cars for regular purposes, gas mileage may be a consideration. If a V6 provides equal or better performance than a V8, then what's wrong with it? At the time, the performance of the E60 535i (I6 TT) vs the 540i (V8 NA) was literally just about equal yet the V8 cost $11,000 more.

I think it's stupid to be fighting that V8's are better than V6's or visa versa. It comes down to how each engine actually preforms, how reliable the engine is, and what car it's in. It's not like a Dodge V8 will fit in a BMW 3-series or a Corvette is comparable to an M5. Generalizing serves no purpose.

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Malibu looks good but we'll see how it does. I'm not sure what it is but GM cannot sell their sedans around here (Northeast). The Asian companies have really dominated the marketplace.

The BRZ needs AWD stock to be a real Subaru

 

[A.Goldberg]

The Malibu has been an also-ran in this segment for a long time now. While GM was screwing around, The Japanese cemented their strong-hold.

Honestly, the Camry and Accord could be complete junk (they're not though) and it would still out-sell everything in the mid-size segment. That's how powerful the Toyota/Honda brand-name is these days.

Honestly, if GM was smart they'd make 2 new brands. 1 to compete with Honda/Toyota. Another to compete with the Acura/Infiniti/Lexus.

Chevy cars are nothing anyone is drawn to. No young person wants to buy a Buick. The sentiment with Cadillac is very similar. It's time they go back to the drawing board with marketing, if they even know what that is.

 

[bunnspecial]

Chevy cars are nothing anyone is drawn to. No young person wants to buy a Buick. The sentiment with Cadillac is very similar. It's time they go back to the drawing board with marketing, if they even know what that is.

I've been really drawn to the CTS-V for a long time, although I go back and forth on it. Although I'm currently looking at the Chevy SS, I still haven't ruled the CTS-V out completely. I at least have a better chance of find one used on the market, although I'm always hesitant to buy a car like that used as I don't know how hard the previous owner drove it.

The CTS-V also means forced induction(although with a supercharger than a turbocharger, for which I would have a slight preference), and my already stated reluctance to get into the forced induction game.

As I've made clear, I'm a long-time Lincoln lover from a Lincoln family, but they literally make nothing I'm interested in now. My dad keeps wanting me to buy his MKZ, but it doesn't do anything for. The LS was the last product from Lincoln that even was on my radar, and I "put my money where my mouth is" by buying one. The only Lincoln I would buy now is a used LS that's newer/has few miles than mine.

My current thoughts on Buick are just "meh." As I've mentioned a couple of times in this thread, my mom has had a brand new 2014 model LaCrosse for 6 weeks now. It's roomy(my 6'2" body can comfortably ride in the back seat, although not as comfortably as I could in the Towncar) and the I-4 is surprisingly peppy. It's a great car for her but not something I would have any interest in buying.

Unfortunately, GM has killed enough brands in the last few years that I don't see them launching a new one. Granted there was a lot of overlap between Oldsmobile and Buick in terms of market segment(and with engine/platform combinations not a lot of real world difference between their products). Pontiac for the last few years they were made were primarily Oldmobiles/Buicks in sportier trim. I remember my dad traded a '97 Oldmobile 88 for a '99 Pontiac Bonneville(he was driving for work then, and put about 60K miles a year on cars), and once inside the cars you effectively couldn't tell the difference between the two. I think the Pontiac brand had enough history that it could have been reinvented into a modern sporty brand, but GM chose to kill it rather than do that.

 

[quagmire]

My current thoughts on Buick are just "meh." As I've mentioned a couple of times in this thread, my mom has had a brand new 2014 model LaCrosse for 6 weeks now. It's roomy(my 6'2" body can comfortably ride in the back seat, although not as comfortably as I could in the Towncar) and the I-4 is surprisingly peppy. It's a great car for her but not something I would have any interest in buying.

I love the Buick Regal. That thing is very fun to drive. I drove the GS model around the Lutz Ring( GM's proving ground) and I had a blast( big plus is it was a stick).

The Buick Cascada looks good, but I fear it is underpowered with that 1.6T.

I hope they put the Avenir into production. That thing is a stunner.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Buick could build the greatest car ever made in every respect and it would never sell well (except maybe in China where they're cool) because of the name. I am convinced of this. It may be a historic name but my question is this: is it better to hold onto an old name with a tarnished reputation or to start an entirely new brand.

Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Hyundai, etc all came out of thin air and are killing it. Buick currently makes some nice looking cars- but the badge kills it. Back in the day, Buicks were cool and often known as what doctors drive. Today they're old people cars. There are too people that drive Buicks in New England at least, old people and 16 year olds who got their grandparent's car.

 

[Kariya]

I'm a student who's in the market for a 'new' (used) car with low mileage and cheap running cost. Ideally i'd like a German car cause i'm bored of the Japanese market in general.

Currently leaning towards this C180 BlueMotion. It ticks all the checkboxes (sat nav, automatic, low mileage, looks etc) with the exception of leather seats.

My reservation is no leather (can get over that), and Mercs (well mostly the E-series anyway) have this taxi cab/geriatric cruiser label attached to them here. Plus dat footbrake.

Was also looking at Audi A4s but majority i've come across are stick shifts, have more miles on the clock, more expensive, and are just not as appealing.

Also looked at Beamers but again less bang for buck...and too many BMWs around me.

Anyone with experience of the 2011 C-class. Reliable? or terrible. Any red flags i should be aware of?

Don't really care if it isn't 'sporty' or 'exciting' to drive (otherwise would've bought a Civic). I just want something german, that gets me from A-B economically and is reliable.

 

[puma1552]

I'm a student who's in the market for a 'new' (used) car with low mileage and cheap running cost. Ideally i'd like a German car cause i'm bored of the Japanese market in general.

Currently leaning towards this C180 BlueMotion. It ticks all the checkboxes (sat nav, automatic, low mileage, looks etc) with the exception of leather seats.

My reservation is no leather (can get over that), and Mercs (well mostly the E-series anyway) have this taxi cab/geriatric cruiser label attached to them here.

Was also looking at Audi A4s but majority i've come across are stick shifts, have more miles on the clock, more expensive, and are just not as appealing.

Also looked at Beamers but again less bang for buck...and too many BMWs around me.

Anyone with experience of the 2011 C-class. Reliable? or terrible. Any red flags i should be aware of?

Don't really care if it isn't 'sporty' or 'exciting' to drive (otherwise would've bought a Civic). I just want something german, that gets me from A-B economically and is reliable.

Sorry but while I too love European cars, if you are a student the last thing you want is to be strapped to expensive repairs. A German car - in general - is neither cheap to own nor reliable.

If you're a student, forget the car and spend the money on having fun chasing girls. Take it from experience, my BMW bled me dry when I was 19-23. Colossal waste of money in repairs for every little thing.

 

[Kariya]

Sorry but while I too love European cars, if you are a student the last thing you want is to be strapped to expensive repairs. A German car - in general - is neither cheap to own nor reliable.

If you're a student, forget the car and spend the money on having fun chasing girls. Take it from experience, my BMW bled me dry when I was 19-23. Colossal waste of money in repairs for every little thing.

I've heard that that German cars are now the butt of jokes in terms of reliability. Is that really true? I ask because i've never owned a German and have mostly exclusively stuck to Japanese. My current car, an Accord, is the most reliable car i've ever driven. I've only had to replace wear and tear items like bulbs. Anytime i get in, it starts, and everything works.

But whilst reliable its unremarkable in almost every other way. And its not really a chick magnet either.

 

[puma1552]

I've heard that that German cars are now the butt of jokes in terms of reliability. Is that really true?

Always has been.

Seriously, you're a student, you don't need to floss a badge on the hood. Get the Japanese car that you don't need to worry about, save your money, have fun in school, and get a nicer car later when the badge will hopefully be more representative of your income level.

 

[Audban]

Check out this cute kid's reaction during his first time at the car wash... adorable!

 

[A.Goldberg]

I'm a student who's in the market for a 'new' (used) car with low mileage and cheap running cost. Ideally i'd like a German car cause i'm bored of the Japanese market in general.

Currently leaning towards
Anyone with experience of the 2011 C-class. Reliable? or terrible. Any red flags i should be aware of?

Don't really care if it isn't 'sporty' or 'exciting' to drive (otherwise would've bought a Civic). I just want something german, that gets me from A-B economically and is reliable.

Well in that you're living in Europe, your repair costs will be less than what they cost in America I'd imagine. That said, German cars are generally less reliable and more complex than Asian cars. You will spend a great deal more maintaining a Mercedes than a Honda.

As I mentioned a few posts earlier, I am not a big fan of the W204 (2008-2014) C-Class. I can't comment on the diesel engine because I've never driven it/we don't have C-Class diesels in the US. I can tell you the interior really is nothing special and has a lot of cheap looking/feeling parts. In 2012 they made some design changes/improvements but it still leaves me asking "is this really a Mercedes". I've only been in the more common "sport" variation of the W204 C-Class (in the US the major visual distinction is doesn't have the mercedes hood ornament, instead the logo is on the grill). It was a terrible ride- very harsh, you could feel every bump, after a 10 minutes I thought I was going to have to see a chiropractor.

I understand Mercedes/all car brands have different images in different countries but I would not consider a Mercedes a point A to point B kind of car. The W204 C-Class was a failed attempt to compete head to head with the historically more athletic A4 and 3-series. My consideration of something "less sporty or exciting" would be a Honda or a Toyota.

To give you an idea of a simple repair cost- in the US a decent quality battery for a Honda/Toyota would run you a little over $100 that would be likely be installed for free from the auto supply store. My BMW's battery cost close to $500 because the battery has to be "programmed" by the dealer. There are may be some ways around it if you want to get technical, but the battery itself is innately more anyways. The Honda's/Toyotas will cause you a let less issues.

If you're a student and/or on a budget, something reliable is the safest option. I know plenty of people in college/high school who bought cars they could afford, but not afford to fix. The most common offenders- Audi, VW, BMW, and Mercedes. They're cool cars, but it's not cool when you have to trade in your BMW for a Hyundai it because it's too expensive to maintain.

 

[Alphazoid]

I've heard that that German cars are now the butt of jokes in terms of reliability. Is that really true? I ask because i've never owned a German and have mostly exclusively stuck to Japanese. My current car, an Accord, is the most reliable car i've ever driven. I've only had to replace wear and tear items like bulbs. Anytime i get in, it starts, and everything works.

But whilst reliable its unremarkable in almost every other way. And its not really a chick magnet either.

Forget German. Especially Mercs which are arguably the worst of the big 3. Only buy German if you're wealthy, savy in automotive engineering or old and bored with plenty of time on your hands.

Buy a 09-12 Lexus IS (newer models are ugly). Reliable, looks good, cheaper to run, better bang for buck, and more interesting than Accords. When you graduate and have more disposable income, then look at German...or better yet upgrade tiers in Japanese.

Friend of mine has an S3 and he almost had an accident because his ECU gave out mid-travel. Car is barely two years old and has less than 20k miles on the clock.

My ex-gf drives a beamer, scratched the bumper (and i mean scratched not dented) and was quoted 2 grand by BMW to 'fix' it. Luckily someone else was at fault and had to foot the bill.

Others have blown transmissions, had phantom electrical problems, burnt oil etc

Using local mechanics as a cheaper option doesn't work as well anymore either because many of these cars are increasingly using specialised parts available only from dealers or factories.

The only people who still think German cars are reliable are ze Germans...well those who refuse to acknowledge reality anyway.

German cars used to be awesome in the 80s-90s. Now they're mostly time/money sinks. On the flip side, they give you interesting stories to tell at the bar.

Ditto for Italian but i think everyone knows about Italian reputation now.

 

[Kariya]

Wow, that's certainly forced a re-think.

 

[2298754]

Forget German. Especially Mercs which are arguably the worst of the big 3. Only buy German if you're wealthy, savy in automotive engineering or old and bored with plenty of time on your hands.

Buy a 09-12 Lexus IS (newer models are ugly). Reliable, looks good, cheaper to run, better bang for buck, and more interesting than Accords. When you graduate and have more disposable income, then look at German...or better yet upgrade tiers in Japanese.

Friend of mine has an S3 and he almost had an accident because his ECU gave out mid-travel. Car is barely two years old and has less than 20k miles on the clock.

My ex-gf drives a beamer, scratched the bumper (and i mean scratched not dented) and was quoted 2 grand by BMW to 'fix' it. Luckily someone else was at fault and had to foot the bill.

Others have blown transmissions, had phantom electrical problems, burnt oil etc

Using local mechanics as a cheaper option doesn't work as well anymore either because many of these cars are increasingly using specialised parts available only from dealers or factories.

The only people who still think German cars are reliable are ze Germans...well those who refuse to acknowledge reality anyway.

German cars used to be awesome in the 80s-90s. Now they're mostly time/money sinks. On the flip side, they give you interesting stories to tell at the bar.

Ditto for Italian but i think everyone knows about Italian reputation now.

There is so much hyperbole and nonsense in this post... I don't even know where to start picking apart **** ********. I think I'm on my 8th or 9th German car and these issues are just overblown.

An ECU doesn't just "give out" when you're driving along. That is a bunch of *********. I'm sure your friend probably tried to flash his S3 or get it flashed by a 3rd party and the reinstallation didn't go as planned. Even then, it's probably crap because the car won't even turn on if the screws for the ECU aren't properly bolted down and the connection wasn't established.