The Car Thread ... !

[Alphazoid]

There is so much hyperbole and nonsense in this post... I don't even know where to start picking apart **** ********. I think I'm on my 8th or 9th German car and these issues are just overblown.

An ECU doesn't just "give out" when you're driving along. That is a bunch of *********. I'm sure your friend probably tried to flash his S3 or get it flashed by a 3rd party and the reinstallation didn't go as planned. Even then, it's probably crap because the car won't even turn on if the screws for the ECU aren't properly bolted down and the connection wasn't established.

Congrats on having a great experience. But it doesn't mean everyone else has had smooth sailing.

Even if you don't believe the personal anecdote just search around the web to find the horror stories.

Whether you think its hyperbole or not makes zero difference.

ECU gave out. No dodgy flashing or bolting or whatever else you want to blame. ECU gave out. Iffy engine response, then electricals went out, then ignition loss and error code on dash. It isn't even an old wives tale. This happened 3 weeks ago.

 

[puma1552]

I think I'm on my 8th or 9th German car and these issues are just overblown.

That may be, but if you've had 8 or 9, that suggests to me that these have likely been short term (24-36 month) leases that were turned in when the cars were still fairly new?

Long term as a used car, German cars simply aren't the way to go. As a new car with inflated lease residuals and the protection of a warranty the entire time you own it? Sure, but to own one beyond the 3-4 year or 50,000 mile mark?

Simply put, they are over engineered, particularly in the electrical department. I've owned three German cars in the past and own one right now (wife's '12 Beetle), and so far it's been pretty good but at three years old since we bought it new I'm starting to get suspicious as to how reliable it's going to be over the next two years.

 

[2298754]

That may be, but if you've had 8 or 9, that suggests to me that these have likely been short term (24-36 month) leases that were turned in when the cars were still fairly new?

The first few were bought used. Hell, my first German car was a MK4 GLI, a car that was notoriously unreliable. I had no issues with it at all. But yes, the most recent were new.

Long term as a used car, German cars simply aren't the way to go. As a new car with inflated lease residuals and the protection of a warranty the entire time you own it? Sure, but to own one beyond the 3-4 year or 50,000 mile mark?

Valid point, but the other poster's reply just seems like a pile of crap. No ECU just fries itself. That is borderline ridiculous to even insinuate.

My X5d rolls out of warranty in a month and I'm not one bit scared about it. It has been perfectly fine for the last four years. I don't think it will just fall apart in the next year or so, when I plan to trade it in.

Simply put, they are over engineered, particularly in the electrical department.

Good point. We can't just ignore that they have been HUGE strides in the last few years. For example, the most recent Consumer Reports (a company that actually tracks reliability and has a pretty solid methodology for doing so) 2015 Car Brand reliability study puts German brands, like Audi and Porsche ABOVE Japanese brands like Acura/Infiniti, Honda, etc. Audi is ABOVE Subaru/Honda/Acura/Hyundai/BMW/etc.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...er-reports-brand-ranking-lexus-fiat/23910563/

 

[daneoni]

You seem really perturbed by the ECU claim. ECU problems may be uncommon but they're by no means unheard off.

German cars are good for leasing (evidenced by you even) but not so much for long-term ownership unless you're lucky and/or patient. If you want to have one for 3-4 years and shift it along then you'll likely have a decent experience.

If you want to own it for 10-15 yrs or more then you probably won't. Of course there are exceptions.

The problem isn't the failures per say since any car can and will suffer some sort of failure at some point. The problem is the cost of repair/replacement when you no longer have the warranty.

A Japanese (or even French and Italian) part costs a fraction of its German counterpart.

Don't get me wrong i love German cars, we have 3 in our driveway right now. But 2 of them have had more than one visit to the shop.

 

[A.Goldberg]

There is so much hyperbole and nonsense in this post... I don't even know where to start picking apart **** ********. I think I'm on my 8th or 9th German car and these issues are just overblown.

An ECU doesn't just "give out" when you're driving along.

Mr. AutoUnion... Friend... Neighbor... Fellow Brooklinite... Kupel's Bagel Customer...

Let's be honest. His experience(s)/post may/may not be hyperbolized, but it does support the general theme of Germans falling behind in reliability rankings. They cannot compete with the dependability of Lexus/Toyota/Honda/Acura. Germans build with great quality and the best driving cars (generally speaking), but long term their repairs are more frequent and usually more expensive than the Asian and American competition... (if there are even any American contenders ). The statistics are around to show it.

I think what you're trying to say is that not every German car ever made is a absolute nightmare to own. Obviously the terrible ownership experiences stick better in the mind than great experiences.

It really depends on how long you intend on a keeping it. A lot of the reliability studies are BS because they only take into consideration a couple years of ownership and a limited number of miles. The average age of a car in the US is 11.4 years and increasing.

As for your ECU comment, all I can say is everything has the potential to fail. My mom's Audi had some ECU issue I vaguely remember but it was caused by water somehow getting in and causing a fuse to blow. Thankfully a minor fix.

 

[bunnspecial]

Just a few random(and rambling-since I haven't had my morning coffee) comments:

1. I have experienced an ECU failure while driving. It was in my Dad's Nissan Frontier('06 or '07, I think) pickup. I drove it a half a mile up the road to the gas station, and about halfway there the dash lit up like a Christmas tree. I pulled into a spot and filled it up, and the car would not start. It acted symptomatically like a dead battery with a rapid click from the starter when the key was turned over. We tried jumping it, and it wouldn't do anything. Someone driving a big F-350 Superduty Diesel even stopped and offered to help us jump it-we couldn't get it to do anything that even resembled attempting to turn over the engine. We had it towed to the mechanic the next day, who was diagnosed the bad ECU but didn't want to touch it and had it towed to the Nissan dealer. They agreed with his diagnosis.

2. A good friend of mine-one of my dad's high school classmates, a local pastor, and a watch dealer(I know him from #2 and #3 primarily) drove a BMW 5 series for a couple of years. He had two transmission replacements under warranty(fortunately)-the second went out about 5 miles from the dealership after having the first replaced. He's fond of telling the story about taking his BMW into the dealership for a new brakes and some other general maintenance. They called him with some additional work that was needed, and a $3500 bill. He got off the phone and told his wife that the BMW was going to be finding a new home . He bought a new Dodge Challenger.

3. My grandfather-ever the depression-era penny pincher, but none the less happy to show off-bought a relatively new(at the time) E350 wagon(I think it was an '06 or '07 model) from his neighbor. He had 5 cars at one point, and his main driving was 2 miles down the road to the diner for breakfast every morning plus about 5 miles to Church on Sunday. He didn't put a lot of miles on his cars, but would take them all in for an oil change about once a year. The day came, and he first drove his 88 Camry(which I'll add had 200000+ miles on it and the time) down to a Jiffy Lube type place and had the oil changed for $25. He then returned with the Mercedes, and it was $120. He nearly sold it then.

I did drive the Mercedes once from North Carolina to Kentucky-about 300 miles. It did drive nicely, but not to my taste.

4. After having owned and been around a fair share of American and Japanese cars, and not afraid to "get my hands dirty" I would say that for the shade tree mechanic American cars are probably less expensive maintain as-on the whole-parts are less expensive. Maintenance consumables like oil filters, brake pads, and tires are similar, but when getting into more in-depth repairs I do find Japanese parts to cost more. With that said-on the whole-Japanese cars tend to break down less often, although I(anecdotally) find reliability of recent models from both to be about the same. 15 years ago, Japanese cars had the definite edge, but I think the American companies have really cleaned up their act. Again-anecdotally-I find American cars might need slightly more work over the course of several years, but it tends to be less expensive. So, at the end of the day, I'd call it a wash.

Like I said, just a few ramblings before I get a cup of coffee.

 

[2298754]

Mr. AutoUnion... Friend... Neighbor... Fellow Brooklinite... Kupel's Bagel Customer...

I went to Kupel's for breakfast yesterday. I need to go there more often.

 

[A.Goldberg]

My girlfriend announced she's buying a new car. She's a 3rd year student in med school. She had a 2007 Prius that got totaled in January. Ever since she's been driving her dad's early 00's Land Cruiser. She's looking to get something a little more compact and fuel efficient. I'm not really sure what that is yet. After last winter in Boston, AWD is a must for her.

This is great, but my sister still hasn't bought a car and is looking to me to tell her what to do. Subaru? Rav4? Used Grand Cherokee? Used RDX? A sedan? One person at a time, please. Buying a car is a tiring experience.

 

[iLog.Genius]

This is great, but my sister still hasn't bought a car and is looking to me to tell her what to do. Subaru? Rav4? Used Grand Cherokee? Used RDX? A sedan? One person at a time, please. Buying a car is a tiring experience.

It's a bit time consuming but I think people find the car buying experience stressful and tiring because they let other's opinions influence them. If you have a budget and a list of things you need/want in a car, stick to that list. Being active in car forums, the biggest thing people try to do which slows down the buying process is they try to get a better deal than the other person and think they're getting ripped off because another person got a better deal so they're willing to abandon that car and shop around more and it' becomes one big runaround.

 

[AustinIllini]

My girlfriend announced she's buying a new car. She's a 3rd year student in med school. She had a 2007 Prius that got totaled in January. Ever since she's been driving her dad's early 00's Land Cruiser. She's looking to get something a little more compact and fuel efficient. I'm not really sure what that is yet. After last winter in Boston, AWD is a must for her.

This is great, but my sister still hasn't bought a car and is looking to me to tell her what to do. Subaru? Rav4? Used Grand Cherokee? Used RDX? A sedan? One person at a time, please. Buying a car is a tiring experience.

If you're thinking AWD, you can't beat the Subaru in that price range and it's also standard. I would stay away from the CR-V and RDX because they run Honda's base AWD system which is unable to move the car with the rear wheels. Reliability has been a Jeep problem as of late. The RAV4 is pretty uninteresting at this point.

My two cents, go with the Subaru Forester. The newer ones (starting with 2014) are really nice and the AWD is standard.

 

[A.Goldberg]

It's a bit time consuming but I think people find the car buying experience stressful and tiring because they let other's opinions influence them.

This is a very true statement. My sister seems to have no opinion/expresses no opinion other than confusion. The top 3 people she listens to are me and my parents. My mom tells her the Forester is ugly and possesses a bad image, the CRV is a blue collar soccer mom car, and she should get leather. My dad likes the Forester and the Rav4. My dad likes the Rav4, I don't . The only thing she knows is that she wants AWD and heated seats.

If you're thinking AWD, you can't beat the Subaru in that price range and it's also standard. I would stay away from the CR-V and RDX because they run Honda's base AWD system which is unable to move the car with the rear wheels. Reliability has been a Jeep problem as of late. The RAV4 is pretty uninteresting at this point.

My two cents, go with the Subaru Forester. The newer ones (starting with 2014) are really nice and the AWD is standard.

It depends on the year of RDX. The older models have a useful AWD system able with a variability of 90/10 to 30/70. I believe the newer model (2013+) has the current crappy CRV system that only achieves ~100/0 to 90/10 distribution.

Believe me, I've researched these small SUV's up and down and sideways. I think Subaru overall has the best package in it's segment. All the cars in the market are very similar. I would say Subaru's weak point is the somewhat dated feeling interior. Some dislike its exterior, but it's practical, allows very good visibility, and is very neutral, which isn't a bad thing. The reliability, resale, panoramic sunroof option, power (relative to the others), great AWD, and 34mpg (top in class) highway I think are its high points.

The Honda has a great interior but the AWD sucks, styling isn't great. I will admit it does have a "mom" kind of feel. The Rav4 has a cool interior, but has a weak engine, and the exterior is ugly. The regular Cherokee has reliability issues and the styling is controversial. It does offer a V6 and low range 4wd which is cool (but not necessary).

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My girlfriend on the other hand seems to be leaning towards an AWD sedan. Like I mentioned before, her old car was a Prius and is currently driving her dad's spare Land Cruiser. Her parents have owned a lot of Lexus/Toyota products. Right now her parents own a LS460 and LX460. I imagine they'll be helping her out. Her parents are successful and she's an only child.

VW doesn't make an AWD sedans do they anymore other than the V6 CC do they?

 

[quagmire]

Not knowing budget, a 2014+ Buick Regal. As I stated it is very under appreciated. It's AWD system can send up to 90% of the power to the rear if necessary.

It has a very sporty drive with a tasteful look.

Just tell her it's a German car underneath the badge if she has issues with the tri-shield....

 

[2298754]

After last winter in Boston, AWD is a must for her.

This is great, but my sister still hasn't bought a car and is looking to me to tell her what to do. Subaru? Rav4? Used Grand Cherokee? Used RDX? A sedan? One person at a time, please. Buying a car is a tiring experience.

New Toyota RAV4 in Hybrid trim. I was at the auto show yesterday and saw it. The facelift fixed the frumpy looks. Not to mention, the hybrid will be killer in the city. AWD is respectable around here too.

In terms of AWD sedans... there's not much out there, that doesn't have a luxury badge on it. Fusion comes in AWD. Subaru Legacy would be my pick, unless she wants a CC.

 

[A.Goldberg]

My sister doesn't think my sister wants a hybrid.

My girlfriend and I are going to look at some CPO Volvo S60's this weekend. She seems to like the looks. They have some pretty good deals out there and a lot are equipped with AWD in New England.

 

[turtle777]

My girlfriend and I are going to look at some CPO Volvo S60's this weekend. She seems to like the looks. They have some pretty good deals out there and a lot are equipped with AWD in New England.

Did you consider a CPO A4 ?

Bought one a few years back for my wife. Fantastic car, so much fun to drive in snow. Had no issues since I bought it, put almost 30k miles on it.

-t

 

[A.Goldberg]

Did you consider a CPO A4 ?

Bought one a few years back for my wife. Fantastic car, so much fun to drive in snow. Had no issues since I bought it, put almost 30k miles on it.

-t

Yeah A4, 3-series, IS, TSX/TL/TLX, the whole bunch. Perhaps some cheaper options like VW and Subaru. I figure we'd start in the middle of the pack with Volvo. Volvo has good deals on CPO and my parents friends own a Volvo dealer so that always helps.

 

[MatthewLTL]

Purple/Green lights?

I was thinking of maybe modifiying my cars lights. I know that behind the taillight lens it's chrome. make me wonder, take apart my tail lights, put a plexiglass fabrocated "lens" on it, and using either projector light things or some PVC pipe (seen in other mod pictures) and make sections of lights on the tail lights.

Here is a image of the factory US Spec light:

here is a image of the factory Euro-Spec light i will get:

now here is what i was thinking (if i can get the light housing apart):
in both specs the top light is the combo tail/brake light, next to the blinker is a reflector

My plan: remove the red plastic cover off the tail light assembly. Top light will be brake lights, turn signals will be either green or purple LEDs the reflector next to the turn signals will be tail lights.

I know that purple and green lights are not DOT approved however i dont see any law that specifically prohibits use of green or purple lights on cars.

Also I want to get a set of factory fog light housings here is what they look like front and back:

Plans:
either wire these up as use of DRLs OR:
Take off the lens of the fog light, install some flexable LED lights inside the housing for DRLs and than use the fog lights seperately (not at the same time).
It looks like the lens can come off by removing the metal tabs so how doable is this?

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

4. After having owned and been around a fair share of American and Japanese cars, and not afraid to "get my hands dirty" I would say that for the shade tree mechanic American cars are probably less expensive maintain as-on the whole-parts are less expensive. Maintenance consumables like oil filters, brake pads, and tires are similar, but when getting into more in-depth repairs I do find Japanese parts to cost more. With that said-on the whole-Japanese cars tend to break down less often, although I(anecdotally) find reliability of recent models from both to be about the same. 15 years ago, Japanese cars had the definite edge, but I think the American companies have really cleaned up their act. Again-anecdotally-I find American cars might need slightly more work over the course of several years, but it tends to be less expensive. So, at the end of the day, I'd call it a wash.

Like I said, just a few ramblings before I get a cup of coffee.

I agree, if you only want OEM parts. Or if you just depend on a local mechanic to order aftermarket parts. I personally order aftermarket for the majority of parts, I always find the best deals compared to the deals a mechanic claims to have found.

 

[A.Goldberg]

My sister made finally made a move on a car.

Yesterday she bought a 2014 Rav4 Limited and drove it off the lot. I am a little surprised she went with the Toyota, but she got a very great deal and I think she liked the more upscale interior. While the AWD system isn't as good as the Subaru, it's one of the better options in it's class.

2014 Rav4 Limited 2.5 4cyl (22/29 mpg)
16,000 Miles, like-new condition
Clean Carfax history
Leather, Navigation, Bluetooth, Climate Control, AWD, Sunroof, Power Trunk, JBL Audio, Backup Camera, etc. I think the only option it doesn't have in blind spot monitoring.
Local trade, purchased CPO at a local, reputable Toyota dealer.
Warranty includes:
- Remainder of 3yr/36,000mi b2b factory warranty
- 12month/12,000mi b2b additional to the factory warranty
- CPO 7yr/100,000mi powertrain warranty
- 1 year roadside assistance

The final price was just over $25,000 (before taxes/fees) which is quite a bit under KBB and Edmunds value. Considering a brand new model with the same specs sells on average for $32,000 (according to KBB), and she ends up with a better warranty, this was a good deal for her. She paid cash so there was no financing incentive. Her 07 Grand Cherokee Overland will be sold private party (any takers )

The Rav4 wasn't my first choice, but I will say interior is best in class despite looking a little hodgepodge (and I dislike the faux carbon fiber). The infotainment system is pretty decent and the stereo is fantastic for a relatively cheap car. I wasn't thrilled with the driving dynamics (it's comfortable, but not fun) or the relatively weak engine, but it is what it is. I'm used to V8 SUV's and upscale sedans.

Tomorrow my girlfriend and I are going to take a look at some cars for her.

 

[D.T.]

Nice! Sounds like a solid deal, and yeah, it's amazing how CPO cars can have a better warranty vs. new. I suspect she'll get into 6 digits of mileage before there's any hint of a problem anyway.

Hahaha, the 1st and 3rd pictures look like they were taken on the set of a horror movie ... spooky I also like the "tada!" hand in the 3rd photo.

Kind of off [your] topic, but here's our Toyota doing beach duty from Friday (my daughter was dying to take a photo)

Our kite had _serious_ air, it was blowing pretty nice. Took the SUP, too cold ...

 

[turtle777]

. She paid cash so there was no financing incentive.

Why not take the financing incentive, and then pay off the full alone next month ? There are rarely any penalties on pre-payments.

-t

 

[A.Goldberg]

Why not take the financing incentive, and then pay off the full alone next month ? There are rarely any penalties on pre-payments.

-t

What I meant to say but was not clear was there was no incentive to buy new over the CPO when it comes to financing because she was paying cash. If she was buying new and the financing made the new option a better deal in wrong, then that might warrant buying new (still probably not with considering ~$7,000 price difference).

 

[A.Goldberg]

Nice! Sounds like a solid deal, and yeah, it's amazing how CPO cars can have a better warranty vs. new. I suspect she'll get into 6 digits of mileage before there's any hint of a problem anyway.

Hahaha, the 1st and 3rd pictures look like they were taken on the set of a horror movie ... spooky I also like the "tada!" hand in the 3rd photo.

Kind of off [your] topic, but here's our Toyota doing beach duty from Friday (my daughter was dying to take a photo)

Image

Our kite had _serious_ air, it was blowing pretty nice. Took the SUP, too cold ...

Good looking for 4Runner! Nice to see it in it's natural habitat. My mom had an '09 Lexus ES350 until this year, put 130k miles on it, and not once did anything break on it. Not even a lightbulb. Oil changes, tires, and scheduled maintenance was all it needed. It's incredible how solid of a product Toyota can make.

Yes, the fog is a bit creepy haha. As for the hand, I don't think my sister would like me posting pictures of her on the internet

 

[D.T.]

Good looking for 4Runner! Nice to see it in it's natural habitat. My mom had an '09 Lexus ES350 until this year, put 130k miles on it, and not once did anything break on it. Not even a lightbulb. Oil changes, tires, and scheduled maintenance was all it needed. It's incredible how solid of a product Toyota can make.

Yes, the fog is a bit creepy haha. As for the hand, I don't think my sister would like me posting pictures of her on the internet

I was a bit bummed we did incur that service cost at 75K miles, but it's a known cost, I suppose you have to factor in - even in retrospect, I'm 99% sure I still would've gone with the V8 knowing it would have a $1200+ belt service 6 or so years in (side note: the V6 models use a chain, basically service free...)

That area is "4 wheeler only", though occasionally someone without will slip in, and make it about 20 yards before getting stuck

The best was last year: a big giant hillbilly truck got stuck, it was like they could've get their 4WD engaged or something[?] So this other, giant, jacked up truck backs up, ties the other truck off, and precedes to _destroy_ their tranny/diff! Hahaha, I really regret not shooting video of that drama and the aftermath of these two "hardcore" off roaders, buried in sand, smoking and making sounds like marbles in a blender ...

 

[2298754]

My sister made finally made a move on a car.

Yesterday she bought a 2014 Rav4 Limited and drove it off the lot. I am a little surprised she went with the Toyota, but she got a very great deal and I think she liked the more upscale interior. While the AWD system isn't as good as the Subaru, it's one of the better options in it's class.

2014 Rav4 Limited 2.5 4cyl (22/29 mpg)
16,000 Miles, like-new condition
Clean Carfax history
Leather, Navigation, Bluetooth, Climate Control, AWD, Sunroof, Power Trunk, JBL Audio, Backup Camera, etc. I think the only option it doesn't have in blind spot monitoring.
Local trade, purchased CPO at a local, reputable Toyota dealer.
Warranty includes:
- Remainder of 3yr/36,000mi b2b factory warranty
- 12month/12,000mi b2b additional to the factory warranty
- CPO 7yr/100,000mi powertrain warranty
- 1 year roadside assistance

Congrats! The RAV4 is my choice in this segment too. I went to go visit my parents up north a few days ago and one of our family friends left their RAV4 Limited with us while they were out of town for a few weeks. I drove it around and it's a solid car. Much better than the equivalent CRV. The EnTune system is better than any other infotainment system the Germans could come up with lol

I'm sure you'll never use the CPO warranty at all. These things are bulletproof!


Also, I went to the auto show last weekend. I'll do a quick write-up on what I liked/disliked soon.

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Kind of off [your] topic, but here's our Toyota doing beach duty from Friday (my daughter was dying to take a photo)
.

Awesome car. Always had a soft-spot for Toyota SUVs. If I ever live in a rural area with questionable roads, the 4Runner would be at the top of my list.