The Car Thread ... !

[bunnspecial]

I will not consider a car without a V8(unless I was buying something small and cheap as a commuter car), and honestly I could care less about 0-60 numbers or any other "track" metrics as I drive on roads.

As said, nothing feels or sounds like a V8. There's nothing like getting a good old American V8 with its flat torque band up to 70-80mph effortlessly and just being able to cruise there at 2K RPMs. When you're driving it hard, nothing sounds like a V8-especially a true dual exhaust V8. V8s are inherently better balanced than V6(simple physics) and I-4s, although they aren't as a straight 6 or the "gold standard" V12.

Different taste for different folks-I won't fault anyone for liking high powered, small displacement V6s, I-6s, or I-4s, but I love V8s for reasons that have nothing to do with their 0-60 times.

 

[AustinIllini]

BMW and Toyota are building the next Supra

 

[2298754]

BMW and Toyota are building the next Supra

Oh yes please!

Let BMW do the powertrain and the chassis. Everything else should be left to Toyota. If we end up with a mini-LFA... wow!

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As said, nothing feels or sounds like a V8. There's nothing like getting a good old American V8 with its flat torque band up to 70-80mph effortlessly and just being able to cruise there at 2K RPMs. When you're driving it hard, nothing sounds like a V8-especially a true dual exhaust V8. V8s are inherently better balanced than V6(simple physics) and I-4s, although they aren't as a straight 6 or the "gold standard" V12.

Meh, I guess it depends on the car though. I much prefer the current crop of forced induction 6 cylinders to the NA V8s that were in various luxury cars a few years ago. For example, the Audi 3.0T replaced the old 4.2V8 and BMW used the N55 as a replacement for the old NA V8 in the 540i, etc. The 3.6TT in the CTS VSport is a gem too.

However, this has allowed the V8s to go turbo-charged, and my god... they are fantastic. The V8TT in my Audi is a monster when it needs to be, yet on the highway, I can get low 30s by just cruising along.

 

[John Jacob]

I just recently moved to the United States, and I'm in the market for a car. My tastes in cars are more European, and hatchbacks are my favourite body style.

I was initially planning to buy a used car with low miles, but now that I look around I see I can get a new car for just a little bit more. So that's what I'm thinking of now. I can spend a little more than twenty thousand dollars.

My top choices are, in order:
1. Ford Focus Titanium hatchback.
2. Honda Fit EX-L.
3. Kia Forte5.

I'd also consider the Mazda3 and the VW Golf, but they work out too expensive when nicely specced, and I like niecely specced.

Do the MacRumors experts have any suggestions or comments? Any other cars that I should look out for, that you think are good choices? Let me know!

 

[2298754]

I just recently moved to the United States, and I'm in the market for a car. My tastes in cars are more European, and hatchbacks are my favourite body style.

I was initially planning to buy a used car with low miles, but now that I look around I see I can get a new car for just a little bit more. So that's what I'm thinking of now. I can spend a little more than twenty thousand dollars.

My top choices are, in order:
1. Ford Focus Titanium hatchback.
2. Honda Fit EX-L.
3. Kia Forte5.

I'd also consider the Mazda3 and the VW Golf, but they work out too expensive when nicely specced, and I like niecely specced.

Do the MacRumors experts have any suggestions or comments? Any other cars that I should look out for, that you think are good choices? Let me know!

Welcome to the US!

You're on the right track with those cars. Obviously, you picked the best two. The Golf and Mazda3 and honestly... they're worth the extra coin. Even a entry-to-mid-level Golf 1.8T/Mazda3 is a better car than any of the other choices you brought up.

My thoughts (I've driven all of these cars so many times recently)
1. Focus: Not a fan of the Focus at all. It drives really well, but that's about it. The interior is fussy (too many buttons), Sync is trash, and the DCT transmission they use, is just dreadful. Do a quick google of all the problems "PowerShift" is having. I've driven dozens of these cars and always the same issues. MPG isn't bad at all though.

2. Fit is one size-class down, but I love the little thing. It is so well-packaged and cleverly made. However, I wouldn't buy one over a Golf. Even the new 2015 model, the whole thing feels like a tin can. Obviously, it is cheap, but it feels it too. My issues are the ride quality and quietness on the highway. It is too bumpy and will tire you out on the highway because it is so loud. The engine isn't very insulated. However, in typical Honda fashion, it will be bulletproof and get good MPG. Used ones hold their value like no other. It's the perfect car for someone in the city.

3. Forte5: No thanks. Look at the equivalent Elantra, it's better. I remember when the Forte5 Turbo came out. I thought it would be a budget Golf in a way. 90% of the driving experience at a lower price, but it's not even close. Terrible steering, driving dynamics, and the ride is harsh. However, it is well-equipped, better than anything else in the class. (Heated steering wheel, for example.) And the 10 year warranty is awesome too. Check out the Elantra GT, if you want a Korean car. It isn't too bad. Feels better made than the Kia.

I would rather own a Golf or 3 over anything in its class. They are just that good. If you could do sedans, the Jetta is cheaper than the Golf with the same engine. I honestly can't think of any other quality cars.

 

[AustinIllini]

Oh yes please!

Let BMW do the powertrain and the chassis. Everything else should be left to Toyota. If we end up with a mini-LFA... wow!

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Meh, I guess it depends on the car though. I much prefer the current crop of forced induction 6 cylinders to the NA V8s that were in various luxury cars a few years ago. For example, the Audi 3.0T replaced the old 4.2V8 and BMW used the N55 as a replacement for the old NA V8 in the 540i, etc. The 3.6TT in the CTS VSport is a gem too.

However, this has allowed the V8s to go turbo-charged, and my god... they are fantastic. The V8TT in my Audi is a monster when it needs to be, yet on the highway, I can get low 30s by just cruising along.

Agreed with essentially all of this.

There are some refined 8-12 cylinder engines, but the American V8 is a bit of a dinosaur. The fact that the Ford GT and the Acura NSX among others are doing amazing things with six cylinder engines just seems to press the issue that V6s are not wussy engines and can easily outperform many V8s

 

[heehee]

Pics of the car.

I love everything about the car expect for the standard stereo, I didn't upgrade it because the GLA and CLA standard stereo is fine, but the C is just terrible.

 

[2298754]

Pics of the car.

I love everything about the car expect for the standard stereo, I didn't upgrade it because the GLA and CLA standard stereo is fine, but the C is just terrible.

Love the interior of the new C, especially the black open-pore wood. It feels so upscale! Gorgeous car, inside and out. Congrats!

 

[AustinIllini]

Pics of the car.

I love everything about the car expect for the standard stereo, I didn't upgrade it because the GLA and CLA standard stereo is fine, but the C is just terrible.

Looks fantastic, dude! Congrats on your new ride!

 

[A.Goldberg]

Pics of the car.

I love everything about the car expect for the standard stereo, I didn't upgrade it because the GLA and CLA standard stereo is fine, but the C is just terrible.

Looks very nice. How is the interior quality? I haven't been a new one yet? I've driven the previous model, ~2011 C300 Sport 4Matic, specifically, and was not thrilled. The ride was super harsh, the engine just did not seem powerful enough, throttle lag was substantial, and the interior quality had a lot of cheap parts. I understand it had the sport suspension, by my god 10 minutes of driving in Boston potholes and I though I needed a spinal replacement. I've been in the generation before that, which was 1000x worse in terms of quality.

The new C-class interior looks real nice, at least in the pictures. I hope they sorted out the suspension. If so, this car could redefine Mercedes' place in the small luxury car segment. The CLA is a joke to me.

 

[heehee]

Looks very nice. How is the interior quality? I haven't been a new one yet? I've driven the previous model, ~2011 C300 Sport 4Matic, specifically, and was not thrilled. The ride was super harsh, the engine just did not seem powerful enough, throttle lag was substantial, and the interior quality had a lot of cheap parts. I understand it had the sport suspension, by my god 10 minutes of driving in Boston potholes and I though I needed a spinal replacement. I've been in the generation before that, which was 1000x worse in terms of quality.

The new C-class interior looks real nice, at least in the pictures. I hope they sorted out the suspension. If so, this car could redefine Mercedes' place in the small luxury car segment. The CLA is a joke to me.

I love everything about the car. It's been a while since I drove the last generation C, I don't remember how it was.

Suspension is a nice mix of sporty and comfort, not too harsh and not too soft. It does a nice job absorbing bumps but the car feels planted when turning. Mine doesn't have the airmatic suspension, I think that one you can adjust comfort level.

Interior - while I do like the Lexus IS interior and the sports leather seats more, I don't find anything cheap in the C except for the standard stereo. Every magazine review basically said it's a mini S class. The iPad like system feels abit weird though, looks like a after thought in the design.

Steering - last BMW I drove was a 2009 128i 6 speed my wife had, I think that car is pretty close to being perfect and the new C is close to it, definitely not as stiff but it has a nice feedback.

Engine - it has loads of torque for being a small 4 cyclinder car. One of two reasons why I choose this over the IS250.

Price - the other reason why I chose this car. I lease my cars and I don't think I have ever seen a car with such a high residual, 64% after 39 months. My payment between the car and insurance is exactly the same as the MINI Countryman S I had.

 

[quagmire]

Cadillac has unveiled the CT6. Powered by a 2.0T, 3.6 V6, and a 3.0TT V6( V8 to come) all mated to an 8 speed auto. It's weight? Under 3,700 lb.....

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/03/31/2016-cadillac-ct6-official-photos-new-york/

 

[AustinIllini]

It looks great. I would just be concerned it would do the typically Cadillac thing and not sell.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Cadillac has unveiled the CT6. Powered by a 2.0T, 3.6 V6, and a 3.0TT V6( V8 to come) all mated to an 8 speed auto. It's weight? Under 3,700 lb.....

That's a gorgeous looking car. I have a soft spot for Cadillac to be honest. I'm not sure I'd ever buy one, but they're a company that really should succeed. Their quality has gone from garbage to so much better. Their styling is very different than the homogenous competition and they've really been able to keep evolving the look. I think their brand name/image is just stuck in the past. When I think of Cadillac's I think of my grandmother driving around in her 2010 Cadillac DTS or any of the previous "land yacht" Caddi's she's driven my entire life.

I'd like to see one in real life. Pictures and professional videos always seem to drastically enhance what GM products look like in reality.

 

[iLog.Genius]

Good luck to Cadillac. The S-Class is king in this segment and by the looks of the CT6 (or any car in this segment) compared to S-Class, there's just no comparison - the S-Class is still tops and I don't see that changing this generation.

 

[puma1552]

Agreed with essentially all of this.

There are some refined 8-12 cylinder engines, but the American V8 is a bit of a dinosaur. The fact that the Ford GT and the Acura NSX among others are doing amazing things with six cylinder engines just seems to press the issue that V6s are not wussy engines and can easily outperform many V8s

*sigh*

Why do people who aren't knowledgeable always assume that all the technology in the smaller engines somehow doesn't make it into the larger engines? As if the manufacturer spends all its money on four pots and invests nothing into their V8s and just keeps putting out smoggers of the '70s?

Calling the American V8 a dinosaur is just plain wrong. I get 21.4 mpg average out of my 420 hp Coyote V8 while sitting in dense rush hour traffic five days a week, which is half of my driving. I get 26 mpg on a road trip. Ten years ago that was impossible. That's insane for the power and 3600 lb curb weight of the car, and a testament to the technology in the engine. It's a 32V Ti-VCT DOHC with aluminum block and heads. Direct injection is coming to it in the next couple years. I'm sure you'll come back and say "but GM still uses archaic pushrods!" Well, that's true, but it's because it's proven, very simple engineering, and it works. But if you think the current LS series engines are even remotely like a Gen. I small block, you have no idea what you are talking about; the pushrods and basic rotating assembly are about the only thing a current push rod GM V8 has in common with the "dinosaurs" you are thinking of.

Meanwhile my '13 Jetta got 26 mpg average with a 5-banger that made a mere 40% of the horsepower. Which is the better engine?

I take it you haven't bothered to read anything about the 5.2 liter flat-plane crank dinosaur in the upcoming garden variety GT350 everyone will be able to afford. I know you always like to argue about the new Ford GT being a six banger, but so what? The new GT350 is a V8, so I don't see your point. And nobody has ever expected Acura to build a V8.

I know you are all things Acura and all things import and whatever, and that's fine, but please don't be ignorant.

 

[quagmire]

*sigh*

Why do people who aren't knowledgeable always assume that all the technology in the smaller engines somehow doesn't make it into the larger engines? As if the manufacturer spends all its money on four pots and invests nothing into their V8s and just keeps putting out smoggers of the '70s?

Calling the American V8 a dinosaur is just plain wrong. I get 21.4 mpg average out of my 420 hp Coyote V8 while sitting in dense rush hour traffic five days a week, which is half of my driving. I get 26 mpg on a road trip. Ten years ago that was impossible. That's insane for the power and 3600 lb curb weight of the car, and a testament to the technology in the engine. It's a 32V Ti-VCT DOHC with aluminum block and heads. Direct injection is coming to it in the next couple years. I'm sure you'll come back and say "but GM still uses archaic pushrods!" Well, that's true, but it's because it's proven, very simple engineering, and it works. But if you think the current LS series engines are even remotely like a Gen. I small block, you have no idea what you are talking about; the pushrods and basic rotating assembly are about the only thing a current push rod GM V8 has in common with the "dinosaurs" you are thinking of.

Meanwhile my '13 Jetta got 26 mpg average with a 5-banger that made a mere 40% of the horsepower. Which is the better engine?

I take it you haven't bothered to read anything about the 5.2 liter flat-plane crank dinosaur in the upcoming garden variety GT350 everyone will be able to afford. I know you always like to argue about the new Ford GT being a six banger, but so what? The new GT350 is a V8, so I don't see your point. And nobody has ever expected Acura to build a V8.

I know you are all things Acura and all things import and whatever, and that's fine, but please don't be ignorant.

I don't think he meant literally that the V8 is a dinosaur. But the fact that V6's are starting to put out V8 performance.

But I would still prefer a V8 over a forced inducted V6 making the same power. Simpler design, cheaper to maintain, etc.

Nothing against the forced inducted V6's and I am not a person who thinks because a car has a Turbo 4 instead of a V6 or a Turbo 6 instead of a V8 means the car is a POS, etc or whatever. But I do prefer the simpler construction of a NA V8 than a forced inducted V6.

 

[takao]

Meanwhile my '13 Jetta got 26 mpg average with a 5-banger that made a mere 40% of the horsepower. Which is the better engine?

VW hasn't invested anything in the 5 cylinder for about a decade. In Europe it has been off the market for years (apart of the transporter) because it's unsellable. Exactly because it's such a fuel hog.

it's the VW dinosaur engine equivalent .


i agree with the rest though. an old engine can be a great starting point for new engines if R&D is constantly applied over the years. Wether it's big US V8 or small italian engines(the fiat 0.875 2 cylinder engine is a chopped in half alfa 1.750L with multi air technology applied. And those 1750 have been around forever as well )

it's only problematic if engines types are ignored for too long. Like the japanese did with their diesel engines. Apart of Honda most are years behind if they have their own ones at all.

 

[bunnspecial]

I have never been a forced induction fan, at least on gasoline engines. I realize the technology can achieve amazing things with small engines, and is a practical necessity on 4-stroke diesels.

Even so, every forced induction car I've been around-from my dad's 1980 Porsche 924 to my Brother in Law's 2008 Saab(and plenty of others in between) has been a nightmare in maintenance as compared to NA engines. I realize forced induction technology has come a long way, but NA engines are still simpler and for my own sanity I prefer them. That's true even if it means keeping an NA V8. BTW, the 3.9L V8 in my Lincoln LS reliably gets 26-28mpg on the interstate, which is not bad considering the size and weight. Although it is a fairly modern aluminum block DOHC 32V engine with variable valve timing, it does lack some of the modern "tricks" like direct injection that squeak even more performance out of engines of any size.

The last I-4 I spent any significant amount of time driving was a 2.3L in a 1990 Ford Ranger. Granted, that was a fairly old tech engine(at least in modern terms) with 8 valves, an SOHC design, and throttle body injection. It also had 8 spark plugs . That configuration generated a whole 105hp. On a good day, it could hit about 22mpg downhill with a tailwind(and did well to top 70mph), but granted it was also about as aerodynamic as a brick. I know I-4s have come along way, and I've been favorably impressed with the one in my mom's new Buick. I don't have a lot of driving time on it(the car just rolled over 1000 miles, and I probably put about 50 or 60 of those on it), but it is pleasantly peppy.

I'll also mention that any time someone talks turbos, I have flashback to driving my Church's old bus, which was built on a Ford E350 Chassis and had a big turbocharged V8 diesel. The turbo lag was obnoxious on that thing-the 0-10mph time was about 8 seconds from a stop(while belching out a big cloud of black smoke), although it picked up pretty nicely once the turbo spun up. Granted, diesel turbos are a totally different beast from those used on modern gasoline engines.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

Just leased a white Acura TLX (3.5 V6). So far I'm loving it.

 

[puma1552]

I don't think he meant literally that the V8 is a dinosaur. But the fact that V6's are starting to put out V8 performance.

Show me a mainstream V6 in an affordable everyman's car that puts out between 400-700 hp. Sure, the V6s now make the power of V8s from a decade or two ago, but the V8s are correspondingly putting out insane power today...which is perfectly in line with my argument about technology.

 

[2298754]

Good luck to Cadillac. The S-Class is king in this segment and by the looks of the CT6 (or any car in this segment) compared to S-Class, there's just no comparison - the S-Class is still tops and I don't see that changing this generation.

Agree. I like the CT6 and the weight they're quoting is IMPRESSIVE, but that's about it. There is no way a S Class buyer is going to go to a Cadillac dealer and even consider the car. The 3 pointed star is superior. Not to mention, the interior is in another league. (I'll be sure to post up impressions of all of these cars this weekend, when I see them)

Just like the CTS, I'm sure we'll see huge discounts off sticker to move them in a few months!




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Anyone else going to the New York Auto Show?

I'll be there this Saturday. For the first time in years, I'm going to go alone and actually spend the time to check out everything. So many new cars have been launched this year. It's a waste of time going with friends and spending the entire time explaining everything to them.

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Just leased a white Acura TLX (3.5 V6). So far I'm loving it.

Congrats! I've been seeing more and more of them in my area.

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*sigh*

Why do people who aren't knowledgeable always assume that all the technology in the smaller engines somehow doesn't make it into the larger engines? As if the manufacturer spends all its money on four pots and invests nothing into their V8s and just keeps putting out smoggers of the '70s?

Calling the American V8 a dinosaur is just plain wrong. I get 21.4 mpg average out of my 420 hp Coyote V8 while sitting in dense rush hour traffic five days a week, which is half of my driving. I get 26 mpg on a road trip. Ten years ago that was impossible. That's insane for the power and 3600 lb curb weight of the car, and a testament to the technology in the engine. It's a 32V Ti-VCT DOHC with aluminum block and heads. Direct injection is coming to it in the next couple years. I'm sure you'll come back and say "but GM still uses archaic pushrods!" Well, that's true, but it's because it's proven, very simple engineering, and it works. But if you think the current LS series engines are even remotely like a Gen. I small block, you have no idea what you are talking about; the pushrods and basic rotating assembly are about the only thing a current push rod GM V8 has in common with the "dinosaurs" you are thinking of.

Meanwhile my '13 Jetta got 26 mpg average with a 5-banger that made a mere 40% of the horsepower. Which is the better engine?

I take it you haven't bothered to read anything about the 5.2 liter flat-plane crank dinosaur in the upcoming garden variety GT350 everyone will be able to afford. I know you always like to argue about the new Ford GT being a six banger, but so what? The new GT350 is a V8, so I don't see your point. And nobody has ever expected Acura to build a V8.

I know you are all things Acura and all things import and whatever, and that's fine, but please don't be ignorant.

I agree with everything here. What the Americans are doing with their V8s is impressive, but I'm just not a huge fan of them. I've never been one to want a Mustang or something, but if I did, I'd get the V8, even though the new EcoBoost I4 seems like a great power plant too.

The fact that you can get 30+ mpg on the highway in the new Corvette is beyond impressive to me!

 

[AustinIllini]

Show me a mainstream V6 in an affordable everyman's car that puts out between 400-700 hp. Sure, the V6s now make the power of V8s from a decade or two ago, but the V8s are correspondingly putting out insane power today...which is perfectly in line with my argument about technology.

Like the ATS-V? M3 isn't a V6, but it's still 6 cylinder.

The V6 pickups are almost the exact same as the V8 in terms of towing capacity (the Ecoboost F150 out tows its V8 equivalent) and are significantly more efficient.

This argument will go back and forth endlessly. The only V8s that are affordable are garbage and the great ones are prohibitively expensive.

 

[2298754]

VW hasn't invested anything in the 5 cylinder for about a decade. In Europe it has been off the market for years (apart of the transporter) because it's unsellable. Exactly because it's such a fuel hog.

it's the VW dinosaur engine equivalent .

Not to mention, the I5 finally got replaced by the fantastic EA888 1.8T. It's not even close. The new turbo 1.8T is a masterpiece. Probably, one of the best 4 banger turbos I've ever driven and I've made it a point to test them every chance I get.

The only better ones, in my opinion, are the Audi 2.0T (also an EA888 derivative) and the BMW N20

But VAG is still investing in the I5... The TT-RS had that amazing 2.5T and it will be back for the MK3 TT soon.

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Show me a mainstream V6 in an affordable everyman's car that puts out between 400-700 hp. Sure, the V6s now make the power of V8s from a decade or two ago, but the V8s are correspondingly putting out insane power today...which is perfectly in line with my argument about technology.

The only ones I could think of would be the CTS V Sport and ATS-V's V6TT, or the M3/4's I6. Even the Audi 3.0T (supercharged) is putting out high 300hp. But of course, these are all luxury brands.

The only chance we'll see a "regular" V6 putting out that sort of power is if Toyota or Honda finally get around to dropping their 3.5 V6s and strapping turbos to them.

However, doesn't the F150's EcoBoost V6s tow just as much as the V8s and get better MPGs?

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I
I'll also mention that any time someone talks turbos, I have flashback to driving my Church's old bus, which was built on a Ford E350 Chassis and had a big turbocharged V8 diesel. The turbo lag was obnoxious on that thing-the 0-10mph time was about 8 seconds from a stop(while belching out a big cloud of black smoke), although it picked up pretty nicely once the turbo spun up. Granted, diesel turbos are a totally different beast from those used on modern gasoline engines.

All of your points are all valid, but yes, forced induction has come a LONG way, even in the last 5 or so years. While I am sad that we don't see NA engines that much anymore, the Germans have, honestly, done such a fantastic job with forced induction. Turbo4/5/6/8 cylinders. All fantastic power plants.

Look at VW. As much as I hate the current Jetta and Passat, the 1.8T and 2.0T engines completely transform the cars into good cars.

Hell, even Diesel technology has improved so much. Who would've thought PORSCHE would be selling us a diesel in the US?

Please go out there and test drive these cars. You will be surprised. I wasn't the biggest fan of diesel, until my old VW sold me on it. Now I'm on my second diesel, but this time, it's a BMW.

 

[puma1552]

Like the ATS-V? M3 isn't a V6, but it's still 6 cylinder.

The V6 pickups are almost the exact same as the V8 in terms of towing capacity (the Ecoboost F150 out tows its V8 equivalent) and are significantly more efficient.

This argument will go back and forth endlessly. The only V8s that are affordable are garbage and the great ones are prohibitively expensive.

Says it all right there. Pure ignorance, impossible to take anything you say from here on out with any seriousness. Only a fool would make such an asinine statement. You may as well exit the thread, because nobody is going to take anything you say seriously.

And you're wrong on the ecoboost F150 - the mileage is the same or worse than the 5.0 because it has to work a lot harder (go to the F150 forums for real world results). Then add the fact that it's overly complex with a turbo just to do what the N/A V8 can do, and add the stress of it being in a truck expected to tow heavy loads for twenty years, and it's pretty clear that's a vehicle you want to avoid if you want a truck for the long term.

However, doesn't the F150's EcoBoost V6s tow just as much as the V8s and get better MPGs?

Nope, see above.