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The Car Thread ... !

Huntn said:
I’m asking what drove theses prices up? My impression is that marketing controls it more than manufacturing costs. You used to be able to buy a Camaro without spending an arm and a leg. My sister in-law bought an early revival one in the mid $50s I believe. My guess which could be in error, if you went back to 1966 you could buy a Camero for about the same as all this class of car went for. They were more expensive, but not twice as much as a Nova.
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All cars have gotten expensive - or have pricier model variants - look at a Honda Accord, you can configure one up near $40K. It's hard to make historical comparisons as the car market has gotten way more competitive, complex, models have moved into totally new performance segments - the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger are loaded with safety and electronics, and have good to levels of performance that the marketplace in the 70s wouldn't believe was possible.

Even the Miata, with it's low power, limited use design, has a $30K option! There are some cheap options, in the import "econobox" segment, if you just need some reasonably reliable transportation.
 
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D.T. said:
All cars have gotten expensive - or have pricier model variants - look at a Honda Accord, you can configure one up near $40K. It's hard to make historical comparisons as the car market has gotten way more competitive, complex, models have moved into totally new performance segments - the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger are loaded with safety and electronics, and have good to levels of performance that the marketplace in the 70s wouldn't believe was possible.

Even the Miata, with it's low power, limited use design, has a $30K option! There are some cheap options, in the import "econobox" segment, if you just need some reasonably reliable transportation.
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It has to do with what the public wants. Customers want a loaded Accord and mainstream brands have figured out that people are willing to pay markups for options on their cars.

I saw one of those $40,000 Accords (bad), and it's just not worth the money. At the same time, the Corvette hasn't gone up in price appreciably (still starts at about $55,000)
 
AustinIllini said:
It has to do with what the public wants. Customers want a loaded Accord and mainstream brands have figured out that people are willing to pay markups for options on their cars.

I saw one of those $40,000 Accords (bad), and it's just not worth the money. At the same time, the Corvette hasn't gone up in price appreciably (still starts at about $55,000)
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definitely, which is why I said the market is "competitive and complex", it's driven by customer desires, new segments, profit, value, brand equity, etc. :)

When you look at historical price increases, it's surprisingly consistent across models, just for the heck of it I started with 1995, found the MSRPs of an entry level Vette and Accord, compared to the current lowest entry point - you know what? They both saw an increase of around 53%.

(ref: '95 Accord, ~$15K, '95 C5 $38K vs. $23K and $55K)
 
Relentless Power said:
Valid observation.

I’m _not_ very trusting of dealerships and I see past their marketing hype to try to persuade the customer to purchase specific vehicle trims/levels. Approximately two weeks ago, I had some recall work completed on my Mustang at a Ford/Lincoln dealer, a sales representative approached me just generally talking to me about my Mustang and what I had specifically modified. I thought he was just making general conversation and was genuinely interested, only to find out that he _attempted_ to provoke me to trade my Mustang for a 2018 Crimson Red Mustang 10 speed. After I literally told him that I did not care for the newer body style [Nor an automatic], he still tried insinuate me why I should trade my Mustang in thinking I was remotely interested, when I was far from it.

In the past, I had my 2017 Ford SHO serviced and they tried to sell me on upgrading to a 2018 SHO, when they literally are the _exact_ same car. Sometimes it shows desperation when a dealership is approaching the customer about a car sale when they are not even their for a car purchase to begin with. (In fairness, I tend to walk the showroom and looked around during the time of my car service, which is why I approached in the first place.)

I tend to find anything with car sales has some type of exclusion or restriction that they try to hide things from the customer.

I have purchased many cars over the years and there are a few things I have learned when Closing a Car sale with sales at “Major” dealerships.

Extended Side tangent on car sales:

Know your credit score and the lowest APR for your credit score before even considering the full purchase price of a car. Also, understand all incentives {If any} on the car. I always tend to research KBB/True Car or other various sites if I know what car I’m specifically interested in to find what the overall value is, Key is to have this completed [before] you even walk in the dealership. Also, every state will vary, but the taxes and fees are something to consider if you are trading in, lease versus Purchase, (If leasing, Understand the residual if leasing) and if the car is being discounted/any applicable promotions. Also, do NOT negotiate off the payment of the vehicle, you want negotiate off the total price of the vehicle (Seems obvious, but buyers tend to do this). Dealers will try to obtain an appropriate price the customer they can _afford_, but sometimes it ends paying over higher interest rates Over the course of the loan.

One Thing I think a lot of buyers struggle to execute, [Which I also made this mistake in the past], is you have to be able to calculate all the numbers the dealer gives you for the final price of the car on the contract, because this is where they try to interject inflated fees that May not have been explained clearly or simply may be ‘Unnecessary’.

Also, if a car has been sitting on the lot that someone has been interested in for quite some time, dealers want to move this car, but usually they have to the car sold within a certain out of time before they ship it off their lot/auction . If its been sitting on their lot for XYZ, bring that to their attention that you were aware it has been sitting, where at least it shows that you’re a potential buyer for something they know they can’t sell for whatever reason.
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I agree, be very wary of dealers.

Regarding the Miata I recently purchased I think the dealer snuck in an extra $800 of extra charges. The problem was partially my fault, as usual I forgot I had my credit frozen, and this caused issues, where normally they would have run a credit check and presented me with a complete purchase agreement. But because I could not get it unlocked on the spot they suggested I take the car home and come back the next day. Besides things like dealer handling fee, one example is a charge for $349 for lug locks, 4 little specialty lug nuts that were on the Miata when it was traded in. Yes, I could of fought over that and walked away from the car, but at that point I was vested and thrilled to be purchasing this car in the low $20s nstead if the $40-50k range so I let it slide. Getting soft in my old age. :-/
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D.T. said:
All cars have gotten expensive - or have pricier model variants - look at a Honda Accord, you can configure one up near $40K. It's hard to make historical comparisons as the car market has gotten way more competitive, complex, models have moved into totally new performance segments - the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger are loaded with safety and electronics, and have good to levels of performance that the marketplace in the 70s wouldn't believe was possible.

Even the Miata, with it's low power, limited use design, has a $30K option! There are some cheap options, in the import "econobox" segment, if you just need some reasonably reliable transportation.
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Good argument. I still have some trouble wrapping my head around the price of a car when I was a young adult was $3500. In 1975, I purchased my first 124 Spider, used low mileage for $5500. They were expensive for the time at $6000, the same price as a... Corvette.
 
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Huntn said:
Good argument. I still have some trouble wrapping my head around the price of a car when I was a young adult was $3500. In 1975, I purchased my first 124 Spider, used low mileage fir $5500. They were expensive for the time at $6000, the same price as a... Corvette.
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Yeah, it always kind of surprises me, cars that at least have this ideal of "economy" aren't exactly cheap.

Still, you can get a pretty fun ride like a Mustang Ecoboost, it's pretty sport-ish, 2+2, decent trunk, good electronics, 310HP, tons of torque, ~$26K, add a couple of nice options, black accent, nice A/V system update, etc., still under $30K (even if you wanted to go with the new 10-speed automatic).
 
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D.T. said:
Yeah, it always kind of surprises me, cars that at least have this ideal of "economy" aren't exactly cheap.

Still, you can get a pretty fun ride like a Mustang Ecoboost, it's pretty sport-ish, 2+2, decent trunk, good electronics, 310HP, tons of torque, ~$26K, add a couple of nice options, black accent, nice A/V system update, etc., still under $30K (even if you wanted to go with the new 10-speed automatic).
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I had no idea there was that kind of a price range on a Mustang!
 
Huntn said:
Good argument. I still have some trouble wrapping my head around the price of a car when I was a young adult was $3500. In 1975, I purchased my first 124 Spider, used low mileage for $5500. They were expensive for the time at $6000, the same price as a... Corvette.
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At the risk of stating the obvious, $3,500 in 1975 is roughly equivalent to $16,500 in 2018 dollars.
 
D.T. said:
You mean to the lower end?
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I think one thing we've experienced in the modern performance market, is a really wide range of model prices - this was always sort of a thing, the muscle car era was all about a family sedan + big block :) But now in the search for more balanced performance, while maintaining rigid safety and emissions controls, high end variants tap into things like exotic materials, special one off engines, etc.

You can get an entry level 3-series BMW for right at $35K ... or take the same 3-series platform, make it an M, add a bunch of options, and run it up to $85,000 o_O
 
NOS Parts.

Lucas jokes aside, these are better than anything available new.

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Any Highlander Owners or Mechanics? I just replaced a left tail light that my wife cracked on our 2012 Toyota Highlander, while backing up in a tight space. I found a video online, followed it which required disassembling several trim pieces on the inside. Everything went fine, but after assembly the rear hatch which usually closes electronically with a button on the rear hatch won’t close properly. Now, just as it finishes its close cycle, there is a double beep and it reopens. Manually the door closes fine without issue.

I’ve examined the rear door and the trim around the opening. Everything looks as it should. I even disassembled the trim around the bottom of the door and removed it to see if the door would then close normally, nope. I’ve also examined the replacement light assembly and it is flush and looks just like the original right tail light assembly, so I am stumped. Any ideas? Thanks! o_O

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Matz said:
At the risk of stating the obvious, $3,500 in 1975 is roughly equivalent to $16,500 in 2018 dollars.
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Yes and average cars run above that these days I believe. :)
 
Huntn said:
Any Highlander Owners or Mechanics? I just replaced a left tail light that my wife cracked on our 2012 Toyota Highlander, while backing up in a tight space. I found a video online, followed it which required disassembling several trim pieces on the inside. Everything went fine, but after assembly the rear hatch which usually closes electronically with a button on the rear hatch won’t close properly. Now, just as it finishes its close cycle, there is a double beep and it reopens. Manually the door closes fine without issue.

I’ve examined the rear door and the trim around the opening. Everything looks as it should. I even disassembled the trim around the bottom of the door and removed it to see if the door would then close normally, nope. I’ve also examined the replacement light assembly and it is flush and looks just like the original right tail light assembly, so I am stumped. Any ideas? Thanks! o_O
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Sounds like a sensor - there’s probably one on the door frame and a contact point on the door itself - maybe it’s loose or got pinched/cut/disconnected if you had trim and panels removed.

I’d also try disconnecting the battery let it sit for 15 minutes (if there’s some sensor settings flipped out it might reset them), and finally look up the door reset procedure, those auto doors generally have some process (including setting things like opening height), done with the manual open/close buttons (I did this for a friend’s little Merc SUV).
 
D.T. said:
Sounds like a sensor - there’s probably one on the door frame and a contact point on the door itself - maybe it’s loose or got pinched/cut/disconnected if you had trim and panels removed.

I’d also try disconnecting the battery let it sit for 15 minutes (if there’s some sensor settings flipped out it might reset them), and finally look up the door reset procedure, those auto doors generally have some process (including setting things like opening height), done with the manual open/close buttons (I did this for a friend’s little Merc SUV).
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Thank you. There were no obvious sensors in the Toyota's rear hatch at least with the pieces I removed and reassembled. I called the Service Dept of a local Toyota Dealer, told them I had replaced a rear tail light assembly and their suggestion was to make sure the trim was properly seated around the door. I'll search and see if there are sensors.
 
Yeah, my knee jerk reaction would be it's some sort of pressure safety switch, and the door is getting enough resistance to trigger it, but you had mentioned you did a pretty through review of the trim (assuming all the rubber, seals, etc.), so figure it might be something else.
 
I've been fighting an oil leak on the MG for about a month now, and I'd pretty well tracked it to the front tappet galley cover. These covers are notoriously problematic on this engine-especially the front one that also serves as the crankcase breather.

A friend of mine makes and sells a one piece cover for this area. It's a beautiful piece of 1/2" aluminum.

IMG_5295.jpg


The plate doesn't come with the crankcase breather already fitted, so "you can just drill and tap it." That sounds easy enough. The fitting included is 3/16 NPT.

I took it to work yesterday, but couldn't find a 3/16 NPT tap. I called over to the university machine shop, and the machinist said he had 1/4" and 1/2" but not 3/16. A tap was around $30 from the usual sources, so he suggested that I find a 1/4" fitting.

I visited the hardware store(best hardware store in town) and unfortunately all their 90º fittings were plastic-that won't work here. They did, however, have a 3/16" NPT tap for $12-so I went hope with that.

I HATE pipe threads as a general rule. Unlike a normal straight cut thread, the tapered pipe tap enlarges the hole in addition to just cutting the threads in it. I did a practice piece of 1/4" thick aluminum, and was throwing all my weight on a 12" crescent wrench to get it to go a half turn at a time(before backing off to blow it out). I'll also add that I was VERY hesitant about using a wrench on a tap, but this is a big enough tap that I didn't feel like I was in danger.

In any case, I called the machinist again and he said that the SAE 30 motor oil I was using as a lubricant wasn't a great choice. For that he advised a "proper" tapping fluid, and I trekked over again to get a little bit from him. It's probably about an SAE 20 weight oil with sulfur-based EP additives. In any case, it made the job is marginally easier. With much sweating and grunting, I managed to get the hole tapped.

IMG_5306.jpg


Then, I came home and went to work fitting it on the car. The beauty of working on this side of an MG engine is that you pretty much only need a 1/2" combination wrench and 1/2" socket(plus a small screwdriver do undo hose clamps)

So, after an hour or so of work, I have this

IMG_5312.jpg


I got the exhaust manifold rehung and the intake back on. I also needed to swap around the carb bodies and got that done. Unfortunately, I'm stuck as I have a nut hung on a stud that's trapped in the old carb body. I'll either get it apart tomorrow or pull a stud off a junk exhaust manifold.
 
Well put from A.I’s previous comment above. The Mustang to me is likely the most treasured pony car on the market, and I would put the Camaro almost right next to it. But on the topic of the Mustang, a few months back I made a comment that I was _not_ overall impressed with the 2018 Mustang GT when I test drove it at a dealership. After having a second test drive with it recently, I think I want to alter some of my perceptions that I probably should have elaborated on in more detail from the first time.

Overall with the new refresh with the 2018 body style, Ford actually made some significant changes away from the whole Fusion headlamp look with 15/16/17 models. And then with the addition of the lowered hood, being it’s more Sloped, In comparison, you can definitely see the difference side by side.

Then More obvious changes is with the 12 inch digital play if you opt for the 401-A package, ambient lighting, quad exhaust with the active exhaust mode. I Do want to note that I have read with the active exhaust, ‘normal’ and ‘sport’ Mode have had reports of others stating that it sounds almost identical with very little separation, with the real difference being when exhaust mode is in -track. (Which, is what I would drive it regularly Anyways.)

Something else I didn’t know that you could opt for for the 2018 was Recaro seats, however you do sacrifice the heating/cooling option and memory seats. Ultimately, I don’t think that is something that I would personally want, as I think the standard cloth or leather seats are more than enough for most drivers to be content with. {I don’t forsee Recaro seats being comfortable for longer road trips.}

Something else that I think is really nice to have that I don’t have in my Mustang is Apple CarPlay. I don’t mind Microsoft sync, but it is really nice to have as an option once you actually experience it. But by no means a deal breaker, Especially for a muscle car, I don’t care about having necessarily all the latest tech.

However when I had my first test drive with the 2018 Mustang, It had a 10 speed automatic. Which I did not know that GM and Ford collaborated together on the transmission, which I believe the Camaro also has a 10 speed as well. Now, my _biggest_ complaint about the 10 speed automatic leaving me under desired back when I first drove it, was that I felt that the 10 speed auto was constantly seeking gears and it did not feel very Transitional to me. But on my second test drive, I drove the six speed manual and of course that was an entirely different experience on its own. Also, reading on other Mustang forums I read others making similar comments about the 10 speed seemingly searching for gears at lower speeds, which was distracting. (Perhaps its the adjustment/driver being accustomed to the new 10 Speed).

_Minor_ gripe, but I don’t understand why auto manufacturers use plastic paddle shifters in automatic cars with premium packages, why can they not use metal or magnesium paddle shifters. (Rhetorical) I understand that It would raise the cost, but still a valid question. I detest plastic paddle shifters, as they feel cheap, and my SHO also has plastic shifters, it really takes away the aesthetics/feel. I think when you have a nice leather wrapped steering wheel, it really sets it off nicely if it included metal paddle shifters. Minor complaint, but something that I noted in the 10 Speed Auto.

Also on the topic of the paddle shifters with the 10 speed auto, and this also stems from one of my major complaints is that the shifting is slower and less responsive when using paddles. I would rather just much allow the transmission to do it’s ‘Own thing’ without using the paddle shifters or just opt for the six speed manual altogether. But I am more than content with a six speed manual, as that eliminates the above issues, which doesn’t mean the ten speed is any less desirable by any means.

Something else that I don’t have any validation to prove, but it has been discussed before, Is that the 10 speed apparently does have some sort a type of learning process where It can adapt to the drivers habits and throttle inputs. I don’t know _how_ it adjusts accordingly, but if that is proven to be accurate, that’s phenomenal technology where it allegedly “learns” the drivers driving behavior.

That all said, I think what really makes the Mustang special, it’s not just a heritage, but the amount of workmanship that Ford invests into the Mustang over the years and what makes it special to the actual driver is that anyone can make the Mustang their _own_ car, being there is so much aftermarket accessories, power options, wheels, suspension, ect, to whatever their liking might be or even stock is perfectly Suitable.

I’m only on my second Mustang that I have ever owned, I look forward to seeing what Ford has in the future for the Mustang (Especially the new upcoming GT500), but it is slightly disturbing to think that they could go all electric _one_ day. But for now, naturally aspirated is still predominant.
 
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Relentless Power said:
Something else that I don’t have any validation to prove, but it has been discussed before, Is that the 10 speed apparently does have some sort a type of learning process where It can adapt to the drivers habits and throttle inputs. I don’t know _how_ it adjusts accordingly, but if that is proven to be accurate, that’s phenomenal technology where it allegedly “learns” the drivers driving behavior.
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This is something that's happened for a LONG time.

In general terms, if a driver is a bit heavy footed on the throttle it will tend to delay the shifts and let the engine "wind up" a bit more. For an easy footed driver, it will do the reverse.

I'm the third owner of my current daily driver, a 2010 m/y. I bought it from my dad, who bought it from my grandfather(he bought it new when he turned 90). Now that I've owned it for well over a year, it always catches my dad off guard when he drives it-he was use to burying his foot if he really needed a quick take-off or to pass because he drove it so gingerly otherwise. If he does that now, the car will either take off like a rocket or if at a stop it will chirp the tires a few times before TC/ESC has a chance to get it under control.

If we trade cars for a week, I'll get mine back feeling like I've lost 50 horsepower, and he always says that his car feels like it has gained that much. A day or two later, everything is back to normal.
 
Relentless Power said:
[...]
I look forward to seeing what Ford has in the future for the Mustang (Especially the new upcoming GT500), but it is slightly disturbing to think that they could go all electric _one_ day. But for now, naturally aspirated is still predominant.
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I believe you mean internal combustion (aka, ICE), 'natural aspiration' refers to a type of induction (vs. 'forced' via a turbo or supercharger).
 
Boring MG update:

I got hit with a wave of inspiration about 10:30 last night, and wondered why I was fretting over a single trapped stud when I have a couple of intake manifolds lying around. I robbed one and bolted it all together, although I was missing a nut(I'll bring one home from the manifold I have at work when I leave today).

Since I'm now running the vac advance from a ported source, I grabbed my handy box of vacuum caps and capped off the nipple i had previously put on the intake manifold(I want to leave it both as a convenient place for a diagnostic vacuum gauge, and also to put a dash mounted gauge when I get around to it-I have the gauge). I still haven't finished "engineering" my crankcase ventilation system, so for the time being just ran a hose into a jar with some glass wool and left it otherwise open.

Amazingly enough, it started with a bit of effort(it's an unfortunate side effect of these carburetors that the choke doesn't really work unless the air cleaners are mounted) and I managed to get a stable idle. I did some gross tuning since one carb body is different. The carbs are pretty well off balance, which means that I'm going to have to start from scratch and reset the linkages. It's idling at 2K now, something that's probably a combination of the vacuum leak from the missing nut and the fact that I had to crank the idle screws way down to get a decent amount of idle airflow through the front carb. All in all, it's not a big deal-people are often terrified of these dual carb set-ups, but SUs are about as simple as you could ask for and once you learn the tricks to balancing and setting the mixture, it's a pretty simple job(I use a flow meter when I want to get the balance dead-on, but can get them surprisingly close by putting a piece of hose in the throat and listening to the "hiss" at the other end of it).

With all of that said, I finally went out for my favorite ~10 mile cruise at about 11:00 last night. It was a beautiful evening with the top down and the car running great. I can't believe how much of a difference running ported advance makes-the car responds SO much better off the line as compared to manifold advance.

Now, I just need to really get it tuned good and proper this evening.
 
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