The Car Thread ... !

[44267547]

Was out running earlier in the afternoon and came across this Z3. Like Huntn’s Miata, The red on these little roasters really stands out. It’s been a long time, but I Drove a Z3 briefly (Don’t recall which year), I specifically remember how responsive the throttle was, it handles excellent in such a small platform with zero body roll. The only real drawback I recall was an _immense_ amount of road noise, but then again, likely wouldn’t make that much of a difference if you had the top down depending where you live, and not really expected to have sound deadening materials during that year in a roadster variant.

However, These are great little cars that I feel that are not appreciated enough for what they really are, given that they are small, I think they are easily overlooked. The Z3 has somewhat more power I believe [Around 180] with the Inline V6, but still comparable to the S2000 and Miata in terms of size. Although the trade off would be that the BMW Z3 is heavier at 2900 pounds, where the Miata is approximately 600 pounds lighter at 2300 pounds, significant difference in weight.

In respect of appearance, I would say the Z3 really doesn’t have an antiquated look at all compared to the early generations of the Miata. It just seems to look more timeless, with the exception of the interior struggling somewhat with cheaper plastics, but that was likely expected for the earlier 2000 model. Overall I think the newest iteration of the Miata sill holds the ‘Compact’ sports car allure for a sporty roadster.



Really like the front end of these cars. Sporty and has enough flair to still hold their own almost 18 years later. This specific Z3 was in outstanding condition.

 

[D.T.]

I see while I had this post queued up to make coffee @bunnspecial replied

(Yes, the coffee is fantastic ... bottom of the bags, mixed bean special)

What is a lower trim Corvette? My impression is that corvettes are heavy, 3300 lb, but with a frick’n 6 liter engine they can handle the weight, but is the steering light or heavy?

They're not really heavy in the market segment of high performance sportscars that are also terrific GTs. The steering is communicative and adjustable.

(It's a 6.2L BTW ...)

I believe vets have gained a ton of weight, since it’s inception. Just asking about the term lower trim.

The context was cars in the sports/performance category [well] under $100K, so he was talking about Corvettes that aren't the upper trims (or "model variants") like the Z06, or ZR1, i.e., the Grandsport, or even more cost effective, the Stingray (which is sort of the "base" model Vette with an MSRP of just $55K).

The car design has a huge impact on me regarding which color I pick. Black is not near the top of my list though. Fiat 500 and Camero, the perfect color is yellow. I almost picked a rust colored 500. Dodged the bullet on that one. For limited external color choices of the Miata, I’d pick red or white. I feel very lucky it was not silver or black (Personal preference). We had a metallic pearl colored Murano 7 years ago. It was beautiful.

Yeah, kind of the same for me, but my spin is some colors I like for just about _any_ car (like black), but some colors *only* work for specific makes/models. Yellow you mentioned is a great example, it has to be just the right shade, and only some cars (I had a Z06 in yellow, it was fantastic!) - some of it has to do with the color and the history of the vehicle, you know, for example, if it was used by their motorsports division - like I'm generally not a fan of blue, but it would be my first choice on an M-car

 

[heehee]

Picked this up yesterday. It was supposed to arrive late June but it got here way earlier than expected.

Don’t have much of a first impression as my wife drove it home but so far everything is pretty much better than the C class I have.

 

[bunnspecial]

Inline V6

What's an inline V6?

Miata sill holds the ‘Compact’ sports car allure for a sporty roadster.

By definition, sports cars tend to be "compact."

 

[D.T.]

What's an inline V6?

It's a variation of the Boxer V8 ....
[doublepost=1526388371][/doublepost]

Picked this up yesterday. It was supposed to arrive late June but it got here way earlier than expected.

Don’t have much of a first impression as my wife drove it home but so far everything is pretty much better than the C class I have.

View attachment 761787

Nice surprise! I always assume delivery dates are going to be way worse, so I probably would've passed out

 

[AustinIllini]

Picked this up yesterday. It was supposed to arrive late June but it got here way earlier than expected.

Don’t have much of a first impression as my wife drove it home but so far everything is pretty much better than the C class I have.

View attachment 761787

Beautiful! My next car will probably be an S model

 

[Huntn]

Was out running earlier in the afternoon and came across this Z3. Like Huntn’s Miata, The red on these little roasters really stands out. It’s been a long time, but I Drove a Z3 briefly (Don’t recall which year), I specifically remember how responsive the throttle was, it handles excellent in such a small platform with zero body roll. The only real drawback I recall was an _immense_ amount of road noise, but then again, likely wouldn’t make that much of a difference if you had the top down depending where you live, and not really expected to have sound deadening materials during that year in a roadster variant.

However, These are great little cars that I feel that are not appreciated enough for what they really are, given that they are small, I think they are easily overlooked. The Z3 has somewhat more power I believe [Around 180] with the Inline V6, but still comparable to the S2000 and Miata in terms of size. Although the trade off would be that the BMW Z3 is heavier at 2900 pounds, where the Miata is approximately 600 pounds lighter at 2300 pounds, significant difference in weight.

In respect of appearance, I would say the Z3 really doesn’t have an antiquated look at all compared to the early generations of the Miata. It just seems to look more timeless, with the exception of the interior struggling somewhat with cheaper plastics, but that was likely expected for the earlier 2000 model. Overall I think the newest iteration of the Miata sill holds the ‘Compact’ sports car allure for a sporty roadster.



Really like the front end of these cars. Sporty and has enough flair to still hold their own almost 18 years later. This specific Z3 was in outstanding condition.


View attachment 761784


View attachment 761786

Of interest, I looked up a Z4 average weight 3400lb, with average 300 horsepower. It has a profile which looks very close to the Miata. During this search I stumbled across this Z370 vs Miata article, https://www.andymohr-nissan.com/comparisons/2016-nissan-370z-vs-2016-mazda-mx-5-miata/, by a Nissan dealer. I’d suggest besides specs, a test drive and compare sticker price.

​

[doublepost=1526392215][/doublepost]

Picked this up yesterday. It was supposed to arrive late June but it got here way earlier than expected.

Don’t have much of a first impression as my wife drove it home but so far everything is pretty much better than the C class I have.

View attachment 761787

You know sedans are a dying breed in the US, get’m while you can.
[doublepost=1526392672][/doublepost]

What's an inline V6?



By definition, sports cars tend to be "compact."

I see while I had this post queued up to make coffee @bunnspecial replied

(Yes, the coffee is fantastic ... bottom of the bags, mixed bean special)



They're not really heavy in the market segment of high performance sportscars that are also terrific GTs. The steering is communicative and adjustable.

(It's a 6.2L BTW ...)




The context was cars in the sports/performance category [well] under $100K, so he was talking about Corvettes that aren't the upper trims (or "model variants") like the Z06, or ZR1, i.e., the Grandsport, or even more cost effective, the Stingray (which is sort of the "base" model Vette with an MSRP of just $55K).




Yeah, kind of the same for me, but my spin is some colors I like for just about _any_ car (like black), but some colors *only* work for specific makes/models. Yellow you mentioned is a great example, it has to be just the right shade, and only some cars (I had a Z06 in yellow, it was fantastic!) - some of it has to do with the color and the history of the vehicle, you know, for example, if it was used by their motorsports division - like I'm generally not a fan of blue, but it would be my first choice on an M-car

As someone really is not very knowlegible about sports cars in general, my impression is that the inflation in pricing in the case of US cars like the Mustang and Camero strikes me as opportunistic. Am I wrong about this? It could be true about anything being marketed today as sporty or luxurious. That’s why the low mileage Miata I purchased struck me as a steal.

Back in the 90s I had purchased a full size GMC truck for $16k new. A couple of years later trucks, which used to be utility vehicles, and priced as such had inflated into the mid to high $20s. I asked the salesperson what in the truck justified this price increase and was given a truck load of BS. They have turned them into luxury vehicles with matching pricing.

 

[bunnspecial]

Of interest, I looked up a Z4 average weight 3400lb, with average 300 horsepower. It has a profile which looks very close to the Miata. During this search I stumbled across this Z370 vs Miata article, https://www.andymohr-nissan.com/comparisons/2016-nissan-370z-vs-2016-mazda-mx-5-miata/, by a Nissan dealer. I’d suggest besides specs, a test drive and compare sticker price.

When I see them side-by-side, the length of the hood seems to stand out on the Z3 and Z4. It comes down to the classic trade-off of an I6 vs. an I4. Even though the I6 is a near perfect engine design(and BMW makes it even more so) it's still a long engine any way you put it.

Of course, you also have engines like the VR6-an engine with all the balance advantages of a V6 and the packaging advantages of an I6

 

[D.T.]

As someone really is not very knowlegible about sports cars in general, my impression is that the inflation in pricing in the case of US cars like the Mustang and Camero strikes me as opportunistic. Am I wrong about this?

I guess I'm not clear about what you're asking[?] Their pricing targets are pretty much in line (like a V6) with the market segment that they're designed and built to compete in.

 

[Matz]

Ok, back in the day, I had two Fiat 124’s - a sedan and ‘72 124 sport Coupe (don’t remember what year the sedan was). The sedan was a pretty decent 4 door grocery-getter, but the Coupe was simply awesome.

Unfortunately it started to rust out, and I got rid of it. Sigh.

I can’t find any of my own pictures from back then, but found these online. Same color.
And maybe didn’t look quite so good...

 

[D.T.]

Love the 124, I'm a huge fan of the "notchback" coupe styling from those years (not just on the Fiat, also cars like the Mazda RX3 ... aka the Mazda Savanna, which funny enough had a 124 model).

 

[44267547]

During this search I stumbled across this Z370 vs Miata article, https://www.andymohr-nissan.com/comparisons/2016-nissan-370z-vs-2016-mazda-mx-5-miata/, by a Nissan dealer. I’d suggest besides specs, a test drive and compare sticker price.

Thanks for the link. I read it and to be honest, its not much of an ‘article’, it’s nothing more than a marketing puff piece dealership promo to try to sell you the more expensive Nissan 370 Z, which tries to debunk the Miata in every way. If you look at both cars in comparison between the Miata and the 370 Z, they really should _not_ even be compared in some respects, because they’re entirely two different types of cars that are boasting different features, even though they are both compact coupes/roadsters.

For example, that article states there is “No better choice over the 370 Z” and the “370Z easily out-performs the Miata”. We technically already know the 370 Z Will out perform the Miata with a 3.7 L V6 compared to a 2.0 four-cylinder, Thats rather obvious with a car that has more torque and horsepower. And any Time I hear the word Better, I always think it’s subjective and what is ‘better’ based on exactly? [Rhetorical]

The article also compares things like the Miata is ‘missing’ voice command, heated side mirrors or AC seats, etc. But when you’re choosing a car like the Miata, you’re purchasing it just because it’s a fun roadster with a drop top and you don’t always _need_ to have the tech package to enjoy a spirited car. Too many times dealerships want to “Up-sell” you versus find out what the actual buyer desires in the car purchase.

And I’m not biased against either car, I like the Nissan 370 Z, and I have driven the Nissan ‘350’ Z before, and it’s an aggressive looking car with a nice stance, the stock exhaust sounds really nice, it has excellent handling and it does come with more options than the Miata would. But if I was in the market for a small roadster like a Miata, I wouldn’t be focusing on all the add-on features that the 370 Z might include for a much higher price tag, which I believe starts around $33,000 for a base price, which can range upwards near $50,000.

Some of the drawbacks with a 370 Z aside from the price point, its significantly heavier at approximately 3500 pounds, the fuel-efficiency is considerably worse, which I also see the 370 Z To be more of a daily driver than the Miata would. I think the Miata would be more of a fun car to drive on the weekend or on a nice day to drop the top cruising around, all cars could easily be a fun track car as well.

However, when you look at the Miata, even though it has a smaller four-cylinder engine, with 155 HP, it probably feels faster just because it’s so light {2300 lbs} and nimble, which has a weight difference of 1200 lbs under theZ . I said it a few times before in other posts, I think the Miata is really underrated, similarly how The BMW Z3 was.

In terms of looks between both cars as well, I actually think the Miata has a much more refined and up-to-date looking for a front end over the Nissan 370 Z, which I don’t care for the newer revised headlights on the 370Z at all. However in terms of road noise, I would say the Nissan 370 Z likely has more control over that compared to the Miata, which is something that I have experienced in the BMW Z3, however; to me that’s really a non-issue, especially if you have a convertible and you have the top down in most cases as it is, but you certainly notice the engine Note more as well in a car like a Z3.

I think for what you paid $22,000 for the 2016 Miata, you’re still “Getting” a lot of car for the money, Peppy performance and it’s very appealing in its own right in the Red variant . And you really don’t have to worry about the fuel mileage on a car given how some of these other ‘performance’ cars are not nearly as efficient in the MPG. I Will say that Nissan and Mazda brands are both are highly reliable and I think it really is a [to each their own] situation of what the driver prefers in terms of performance/packages. Which Leads me to my last point, is that the Nissan 370 Z also has a heavy after market for the enthusiast, which I think Miata owners likely don’t modify those cars as much as the Nissan 370 Z would, (or) there is not as much aftermarket parts/accessories for the Miata as much as a 370 Z has. Again, if I was in the market for a Miata, I want the car just as itself and not invest in any aftermarket parts.

 

[bunnspecial]

hich I think Miata owners likely don’t modify those cars as much as the Nissan 370 Z would, (or) there is not as much aftermarket parts/accessories for the Miata as much as a 370 Z has.

Moss Motors, which is the top dog in the British world at least in the US, also does a considerable volume in Miata parts.

It seems to me that the Miata guys modify their cars a lot, or at least NAs and NBs.

BTW, you refer to it as a "roadster with a drop top." By definition, a roadster either has no top or a removable one

 

[heehee]

Beautiful! My next car will probably be an S model

I wanted an A5 but after seeing the seats, I had to have the S5. Plus, due the residual on the S, it’s not that much more.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Picked this up yesterday. It was supposed to arrive late June but it got here way earlier than expected.

Don’t have much of a first impression as my wife drove it home but so far everything is pretty much better than the C class I have.

View attachment 761787

One of my friends bought an A4 last year to replace his E90 3-series. He was dead set on an ATS until I convinced him how crappy it really was compared to the modern competition. It’s a nice little car.

My other friend however bought a new C300 4Matic recently. What a pile of garbage. Lots of stupid electrical problems and signs of poor build quality.

 

[2298754]

The Z3 has somewhat more power I believe [Around 180] with the Inline V6,

Do you know more about this Z3? Didn't know you could get a Z3 with an inline V6. Must be a BMW individual option.

 

[44267547]

Do you know more about this Z3?.

Depends which year you’re referring too. The one pictured above I believe is a 2000 variant.

Didn't know you could get a Z3 with an inline V6. Must be a BMW individual option.

Its a 2.8 Litre, referencing a BMW forum, it’s actually a straight six, but can be referred to as inline 6 as well. Perhaps my wording was not conveyed appropriately.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight-six_engine

 

[quagmire]

Depends which year you’re referring too. The one pictured above I believe is a 2000 variant.



Its a 2.8 Litre, referencing a BMW forum, it’s actually a straight six, but can be referred to as inline 6 as well. Perhaps my wording was not appropriate.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight-six_engine

You're being trolled from your typo. You said Inline V6.... Can't be an Inline and a V at the same time.

 

[44267547]

You're being trolled from your typo. Your said Inline V6.... Can't be an Inline and a V at the same time.

I realize my error now thanks to AutoUnion. Sometimes you _need_ to be educated on those mistakes made. I always appreciate the feedback. Thanks AutoUnion & Quagmire.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Picked this up yesterday. It was supposed to arrive late June but it got here way earlier than expected.

Don’t have much of a first impression as my wife drove it home but so far everything is pretty much better than the C class I have.

View attachment 761787

Are the orange indicators a requirement in the US? It’s a long time since I’ve seen an Audi with coloured front headlamps so it’s intrigued me.

 

[Huntn]

I guess I'm not clear about what you're asking[?] Their pricing targets are pretty much in line (like a V6) with the market segment that they're designed and built to compete in.

I’m asking what drove theses prices up? My impression is that marketing controls it more than manufacturing costs. You used to be able to buy a Camaro without spending an arm and a leg. My sister in-law bought an early revival one in the mid $50s I believe. My guess which could be in error, if you went back to 1966 you could buy a Camero for about the same as all this class of car went for. They were more expensive, but not twice as much as a Nova.

I heard today on the radio that in the realm of sedans, Ford is down to the Mustang and Focus.
[doublepost=1526419663][/doublepost]

Thanks for the link. I read it and to be honest, its not much of an ‘article’, it’s nothing more than a marketing puff piece dealership promo to try to sell you the more expensive Nissan 370 Z, which tries to debunk the Miata in every way. If you look at both cars in comparison between the Miata and the 370 Z, they really should _not_ even be compared in some respects, because they’re entirely two different types of cars that are boasting different features, even though they are both compact coupes/roadsters.

For example, that article states there is “No better choice over the 370 Z” and the “370Z easily out-performs the Miata”. We technically already know the 370 Z Will out perform the Miata with a 3.7 L V6 compared to a 2.0 four-cylinder, Thats rather obvious with a car that has more torque and horsepower. And any Time I hear the word Better, I always think it’s subjective and what is ‘better’ based on exactly? [Rhetorical]

The article also compares things like the Miata is ‘missing’ voice command, heated side mirrors or AC seats, etc. But when you’re choosing a car like the Miata, you’re purchasing it just because it’s a fun roadster with a drop top and you don’t always _need_ to have the tech package to enjoy a spirited car. Too many times dealerships want to “Up-sell” you versus find out what the actual buyer desires in the car purchase.

And I’m not biased against either car, I like the Nissan 370 Z, and I have driven the Nissan ‘350’ Z before, and it’s an aggressive looking car with a nice stance, the stock exhaust sounds really nice, it has excellent handling and it does come with more options than the Miata would. But if I was in the market for a small roadster like a Miata, I wouldn’t be focusing on all the add-on features that the 370 Z might include for a much higher price tag, which I believe starts around $33,000 for a base price, which can range upwards near $50,000.

Some of the drawbacks with a 370 Z aside from the price point, its significantly heavier at approximately 3500 pounds, the fuel-efficiency is considerably worse, which I also see the 370 Z To be more of a daily driver than the Miata would. I think the Miata would be more of a fun car to drive on the weekend or on a nice day to drop the top cruising around, all cars could easily be a fun track car as well.

However, when you look at the Miata, even though it has a smaller four-cylinder engine, with 155 HP, it probably feels faster just because it’s so light {2300 lbs} and nimble, which has a weight difference of 1200 lbs under theZ . I said it a few times before in other posts, I think the Miata is really underrated, similarly how The BMW Z3 was.

In terms of looks between both cars as well, I actually think the Miata has a much more refined and up-to-date looking for a front end over the Nissan 370 Z, which I don’t care for the newer revised headlights on the 370Z at all. However in terms of road noise, I would say the Nissan 370 Z likely has more control over that compared to the Miata, which is something that I have experienced in the BMW Z3, however; to me that’s really a non-issue, especially if you have a convertible and you have the top down in most cases as it is, but you certainly notice the engine Note more as well in a car like a Z3.

I think for what you paid $22,000 for the 2016 Miata, you’re still “Getting” a lot of car for the money, Peppy performance and it’s very appealing in its own right in the Red variant . And you really don’t have to worry about the fuel mileage on a car given how some of these other ‘performance’ cars are not nearly as efficient in the MPG. I Will say that Nissan and Mazda brands are both are highly reliable and I think it really is a [to each their own] situation of what the driver prefers in terms of performance/packages. Which Leads me to my last point, is that the Nissan 370 Z also has a heavy after market for the enthusiast, which I think Miata owners likely don’t modify those cars as much as the Nissan 370 Z would, (or) there is not as much aftermarket parts/accessories for the Miata as much as a 370 Z has. Again, if I was in the market for a Miata, I want the car just as itself and not invest in any aftermarket parts.

Makes you wonder why a Nissan Dealer felt the need to make this comparison.

 

[0388631]

Are the orange indicators a requirement in the US? It’s a long time since I’ve seen an Audi with coloured front headlamps so it’s intrigued me.

Yes.

 

[2298754]

Are the orange indicators a requirement in the US? It’s a long time since I’ve seen an Audi with coloured front headlamps so it’s intrigued me.

Yup, it's for the US market. A common Audi mod is to get EU-code headlamps. All clear.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Depends which year you’re referring too. The one pictured above I believe is a 2000 variant.



Its a 2.8 Litre, referencing a BMW forum, it’s actually a straight six, but can be referred to as inline 6 as well. Perhaps my wording was not conveyed appropriately.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight-six_engine

You said “inline V6” not “inline 6”.

 

[44267547]

Makes you wonder why a Nissan Dealer felt the need to make this comparison.

Valid observation.

I’m _not_ very trusting of dealerships and I see past their marketing hype to try to persuade the customer to purchase specific vehicle trims/levels. Approximately two weeks ago, I had some recall work completed on my Mustang at a Ford/Lincoln dealer, a sales representative approached me just generally talking to me about my Mustang and what I had specifically modified. I thought he was just making general conversation and was genuinely interested, only to find out that he _attempted_ to provoke me to trade my Mustang for a 2018 Crimson Red Mustang 10 speed. After I literally told him that I did not care for the newer body style [Nor an automatic], he still tried insinuate me why I should trade my Mustang in thinking I was remotely interested, when I was far from it.

In the past, I had my 2017 Ford SHO serviced and they tried to sell me on upgrading to a 2018 SHO, when they literally are the _exact_ same car. Sometimes it shows desperation when a dealership is approaching the customer about a car sale when they are not even their for a car purchase to begin with. (In fairness, I tend to walk the showroom and looked around during the time of my car service, which is why I approached in the first place.)

I tend to find anything with car sales has some type of exclusion or restriction that they try to hide things from the customer.

I have purchased many cars over the years and there are a few things I have learned when Closing a Car sale with sales at “Major” dealerships.

Extended Side tangent on car sales:

Know your credit score and the lowest APR for your credit score before even considering the full purchase price of a car. Also, understand all incentives {If any} on the car. I always tend to research KBB/True Car or other various sites if I know what car I’m specifically interested in to find what the overall value is, Key is to have this completed [before] you even walk in the dealership. Also, every state will vary, but the taxes and fees are something to consider if you are trading in, lease versus Purchase, (If leasing, Understand the residual if leasing) and if the car is being discounted/any applicable promotions. Also, do NOT negotiate off the payment of the vehicle, you want negotiate off the total price of the vehicle (Seems obvious, but buyers tend to do this). Dealers will try to obtain an appropriate price the customer they can _afford_, but sometimes it ends paying over higher interest rates Over the course of the loan.

One Thing I think a lot of buyers struggle to execute, [Which I also made this mistake in the past], is you have to be able to calculate all the numbers the dealer gives you for the final price of the car on the contract, because this is where they try to interject inflated fees that May not have been explained clearly or simply may be ‘Unnecessary’.

Also, if a car has been sitting on the lot that someone has been interested in for quite some time, dealers want to move this car, but usually they have to the car sold within a certain out of time before they ship it off their lot/auction . If its been sitting on their lot for XYZ, bring that to their attention that you were aware it has been sitting, where at least it shows that you’re a potential buyer for something they know they can’t sell for whatever reason.