The Car Thread ... !

[44267547]

Something else that is of general interest to me is safety related tech in vehicles and how undermined it is. On a similar sub point, Something else I forgot to mention in my previous post I think it something that we all tend to not appreciate a enough of, and that’s the safety features in cars today. I think when you factor the price of a car today, take a fully loaded 2018 Mustang GT for example, you’re looking at approximately almost $50,000 [Before taxes/registration/dealer fee’s]. Considering how Mustangs were not nearly that expensive 10 years ago, it’s not just necessarily the performance side of things or 401-A perks, but also all the safety/tech related features that are _included_ that really raise the price. Obviously some of these packages you can opt separately if you want to keep the cost of the vehicle lower, but still some of these features come “standard”.

30 years ago, I don’t think anyone ever perceived that cars would be able to parallel park, lane keep assist, adjustable automated braking sense, audio alerts, blind spot, forward collision, lane departure warning, ect, ect. Tesla is another _great_ example of all The safety automation in vehicles. I believe even the Camaro has some type of safety related feature built into the seats were they vibrate if a vehicle is approaching a blind spot. Some vehicles even have Pulsators built into the steering wheel.

Point is, we pay for all this technology and I don’t think consumers appreciate enough {Or understand} given that we have these high-performance cars that are fast, but I think it’s just equally important to appreciate all these protective measures that are life-saving advancements that we never had 30 to 40 years ago. But then I hear those who regularly complain about the price of Mustangs and performance cars have increased (Which is True), however; I think if you look at advancements of technology today, it cost more money to implement these features in the cars, let alone the millions of dollars in research and development by these Auto manufacturers to better (Subjective word) protect the operator and others on the road.

I would say my SHO has way more safety related features than my Mustang does, but in retrospect, I think I would rather have these features and pay for them realizing I may not appreciate them all the time, but when you do need them, they potentially save you and others from accidents on the roadway. I just think it’s really impressive if you just factor in what auto manufacturers are able to include in a car that was not even talked about ten years ago, even though the drawback is the rising costs of the price to the consumer, I do think is a direct result of some stagnant sales with vehicles not selling and those holding onto their vehicles longer. But still, even some of these other features that are being included on base model cars is fairly impressive just with Blindspot monitoring, which was something that you used to have to pay for separately or as an ‘add on’ feature.


Even in squad cars, with all the potential hazards for blind spots and poor visibility, I’m amazed at the amount of technology that’s included to better the driving experience that I never had access to years back. It’s one of the main reasons why the PP Crown Victoria was discontinued because of safety measures that were not meeting (And not passing) DOT specifications anymore.

If There was _one_ thing I could add to dealerships to include in these packages for safety technology, [regardless if it’s a performance car, economy car or luxury vehicle], is that a better explain to the consumer, so they have idea of what it actually does and how to use it . Because I’m amazed at how many drivers have no idea that their car has specific safety related features they have no idea how to utilize it or it was even an available feature.

 

[0388631]

30 years ago no c-pillar was as wide as Shamu. Take out modern safety tech in new cars and there will be a lot of accidents.

 

[Huntn]

Arbarath vs Miata
Fiat vs Mazda
Chevy vs Ford
Tell me about this undermining of brand loyalty! I don’t mean to become the local Miata whisperer, but after testing driving the new Fiat 124 Arbarath last year and remembering obvious similiarites looking at pictures of the Miatas. I watched the following video and besides the engine, and body styling, and some other altered fluff, the bombshell this car is made in Japan on the Miata production line and shares practically everything with the Miata, including an identical interior, I was really glad I did not go for the Arbarath, the Japanese car that wears an Italian suit, although it does have a slightly more powerful engine. No offense intended for any new Fiat 124 Owners in this thread.

What about brand loyalty?
The Fiat from a purist view seems to be a calculated insult to the concept of brand purity. Ok, not completely serious about the degree of my indignation, but I think I have a point. I’ll acknowledge that there are many cars out there that share components, even chassis, but this strikes me as a blatant betrayal to brand, if there is such a thing in the minds of auto enthusiasts who decide with their wallets.

I grew up as a Chevy guy, although some close friends were Ford lovers. I could forgive them despite the energetic debates about which was more worthy. 1966 canary yellow convertible Camaro, baby!

My god, what if Chevy took a Mustang chassis and hung a Camaro body on it, while keeping the Mustang interiorc?? Sacrilege!! But seriously, major brands just don’t hang their signature namesake on another companies chassis and expect that to fly, do they?

Something else that is of general interest to me is safety related tech in vehicles and how undermined it is. On a similar sub point, Something else I forgot to mention in my previous post I think it something that we all tend to not appreciate a enough of, and that’s the safety features in cars today. I think when you factor the price of a car today, take a fully loaded 2018 Mustang GT for example, you’re looking at approximately almost $50,000 [Before taxes/registration/dealer fee’s]. Considering how Mustangs were not nearly that expensive 10 years ago, it’s not just necessary the performance side of things or 401-A perks, but also all the safety/tech related features that are _included_ that really raise the price. Obviously some of these packages you can opt separately if you want to keep the cost of the vehicle lower, but still some of these features come “standard”.

30 years ago, I don’t think anyone ever perceived that cars would be able to parallel park, lane keep assist, adjustable automated braking sense, audio alerts, blind spot, forward collision, lane departure warning, ect, ect. Tesla is another _great_ example of all The safety automation in vehicles. I believe even the Camaro has some type of safety related feature built into the seats were they vibrate if a vehicle is approaching a blind spot. Some vehicles even have Pulsators built into the steering wheel.

Point is, we pay for all this technology and I don’t think consumers appreciate enough {Or understand} given that we have these high-performance cars that are fast, but I think it’s just equally important to appreciate all these protective measures that are life-saving advancements that we never had 30 to 40 years ago. But then I hear those who regularly complain about the price of Mustangs and performance cars have increased (Which is True), however; I think if you look at advancements of technology today, it cost more money to implement these features in the cars, let alone the millions of dollars in research and development by these Auto manufacturers to better (Subjective word) protect the operator and others on the road.

I would say my SHO has way more safety related features than my Mustang does, but in retrospect, I think I would rather have these features and pay for them realizing I may not appreciate them all the time, but when you do need them, they potentially save you and others from accidents on the roadway. I just think it’s really impressive if you just factor in what auto manufacturers are able to include in a car that was not even talked about ten years ago, even though the drawback is the rising costs of the price to the consumer, I do think is a direct result of some stagnant sales with vehicles not selling and those holding onto their vehicles longer. But still, even some of these other features that are being included on base model cars is fairly impressive just with Blindspot monitoring, which was something that you used to have to pay for separately or as an ‘add on’ feature.


Even in squad cars, with all the potential hazards for blind spots and poor visibility, I’m amazed at the amount of technology that’s included to better the driving experience that I never had access to years back. It’s one of the main reasons why the PP Crown Victoria was discontinued because of safety measures that were not meeting (And not passing) DOT specifications anymore.

If There was _one_ thing I could add to dealerships to include in these packages for safety technology, [regardless if it’s a performance car, economy car or luxury vehicle], is that a better explain to the consumer, so they have idea of what it actually does and how to use it . Because I’m amazed at how many drivers have no idea that their car has specific safety related features they have no idea how to utilize it or it was even an available feature.

I think this is an accurate appraisal when looking at the cost of a modern auto, that I really did not consider when critiquing the cost of cars today.

 

[0388631]

I'd like a mantis green or neon orange Superbird. Fully restored or restomodded. Congratulations on the Miata, @Huntn. They're nice little cars. Wish I could drive one without endangering myself. I recently test drove a GT which I liked a lot. A whole lot.


Edit: Whoops. I meant Mustang GT. Not the Ford GT. I wish it was the Ford GT, though!

 

[D.T.]

But seriously, major brands just don’t hang their signature namesake on another companies chassis and expect that to fly, do they?

There's plenty of co-op products, sometimes it's because it's a smaller brand, sometimes it's because of expertise or marketing visibility, honestly, it's just not that big of a deal.

The new Supra will be a joint development between Toyota and BMW, with a variant of the core product available under each make - sounds good to me.

 

[Tsuchiya]

So while I've been home from work the last week, my dad has been driving my E-Class about.

2 curbed wheels and a scrape over one wheel arch which looks like someones tried to slide past it with a zipped jacket.

Kept it perfect since September. **** my life.

 

[D.T.]

So while I've been home from work the last week, my dad has been driving my E-Class about.

2 curbed wheels and a scrape over one wheel arch which looks like someones tried to slide past it with a zipped jacket.

Kept it perfect since September. **** my life.

Bummer, but now it's done, once you get a few imperfections, it just reduces the anxiety. Wheels can be so hard to maintain and if you're parking in cities, against curbs, it's tough - especially with low profile, tight tire fitments. FWIW, there are some outstanding wheel refurbing services, obviously, there's a little logistic complications with shipping wheels that are on your car, but they come back perfect.

 

[Huntn]

There's plenty of co-op products, sometimes it's because it's a smaller brand, sometimes it's because of expertise or marketing visibility, honestly, it's just not that big of a deal.

The new Supra will be a joint development between Toyota and BMW, with a variant of the core product available under each make - sounds good to me.

I have acknowledged, mixing of parts and joint ventures is established. GM has taken at last one 100% Japanese car and slapped a GM brand label on it, but it was not a signature model My Mom owned one in the late 90- early 00s, but I don’t remember the name.

I accept our difference in opinion regarding brands. It’s part of my childhood and possibly generation. The more muddled a car becomes, the less important brand becomes, and the more vigilant the customer should be in some circumstances. This is not an argument, that the final product is less, but is less distinct. In the case of Fiat v Mazda, a Japanes car with an Italian shirt.

 

[bunnspecial]

So, I've come to the unfortunate conclusion that my rings are shot in the MG. I need to do a leak-down to confirm, but it's dumping enough oil out of the crankcase when it's on the highway that I think it's a pretty safe bet(with the new side cover, I'm running it open until I can work out a proper oil separator and ventilation system, but I collected ~2 oz. of oil in 20 minutes in my improvised catch can last night).

In any case, I basically have 3 options:

1. Pull the pistons with the engine in place, run a dingleberry through to break the glaze and crosshatch, and then put it all back together with new rings(probably 10 thou over) along with new rod bearings and the 3 center mains. This is the cheapest and simplest option, and would probably take a couple of weeks including waiting on parts.

2. Drive it this summer and fall, and then do a full and proper engine rebuild this winter. That's a lot more expensive, and I might be pushing it on a time.

3. Get a short block, rebuild it, and drop it in. Then, mothball the original engine for a later rebuild/other project and maybe to eventually go back in the car.

A quick call to one of my buddies found something somewhere between a short block and a long block for $250 . So, option 3 it is. This one came out of a '67 B, which means it's probably an 18GB engine(although he didn't know off the top of my head). It should be a solid block. I've been told that the blocks in this series have the highest nickel content so tend to wear the best of all of the 18 year series of 1800 "B" engines. This one does have its original high compression pistons, which saves me having to spend $400 on a new set of high compression pistons as I would have on a later engine. I'll look at the crank condition-it MIGHT get the crank out of a cracked late block I have lying around, as the consensus also is that the late cranks are better balanced and give a smoother idle(although they are cast and not as sturdy as the earlier cranks).

So, hopefully this will be a quick 20 thou over at the most to bring the cylinders back into round, and then just a bit off the top to make sure it's flat. Assuming the crank is good(or I can come up with a crank that doesn't need any work-I do have one or two others around) and I can also avoid line boring the block, I should be able to throw it back together without TOO much work. The head on my current engine only has about 2K miles on it, so I should be good to just pull it, do a quick lap job on the valves, and slap it back on. With the block decked, I may end up with a bit over the 9.5:1 C/R I'm currently running. I'll top that off with a street performance cam, and I should have an engine good to go for another 100K.

 

[Apple fanboy]

So while I've been home from work the last week, my dad has been driving my E-Class about.

2 curbed wheels and a scrape over one wheel arch which looks like someones tried to slide past it with a zipped jacket.

Kept it perfect since September. **** my life.

At least you know who to bill!

 

[44267547]

I think this is an accurate appraisal when looking at the cost of a modern auto, that I really did not consider when critiquing the cost of cars today.

What I find interesting is before all the safety features were really included in cars today, I really didn’t care much about it in the past. As a Matter fact, I actually was one that just only opted for Blindspot monitoring on Sideview mirrors and that was sufficient enough for me. But realizing how much technology actually can _save_ lives, prevent accidents and assist the driver becoming more aware of their surroundings, I Appreciate auto manufacturers for implementing safety measures to make the roadway environment safer for the driver and other drivers around them.

Of Course technology can only go so far, as human error usually is at fault for the most part when it comes to accidents. But I think a lot of accidents can be prevented when you have technology that helps remind us or alert others of possible accidents.

The only other thing I want to play a role as cynic here, is that sometimes I think _too_ much technology can be distracting also, where the driver may not always be paying attention to the road With all the audible/visual alerts in the vehicle, thus resulting in an accident by itself (Which I have observed happen multiple times). But again, the driver is the one to be in control, but safety technology can be distracting at times as well.

 

[0388631]

Patricide?

@Huntn I see what you mean. However, badge engineering and partnerships have long been a part of automotive history and it's not a modern trend.

 

[0388631]

First time seeing one of these in person. Absolutely exquisite design! Very provocative.

Is that the Levante or Stelvio? I have yet to see a Levante, but I have seen two Stelvios so far. I can't tell if you're being sarcastic since I vaguely know your opinions on FCA, but the Stelvio does grab people's attention.

Picked this up yesterday. It was supposed to arrive late June but it got here way earlier than expected.

Don’t have much of a first impression as my wife drove it home but so far everything is pretty much better than the C class I have.

View attachment 761787

Oh, I remember you posting about the Audi months ago. Congratulations. It looks fantastic. I recall reading Audi/VAG spent a lot of R&D for making such sharp creases like that, but it might have been a tabloid rumor. I'm not a huge fan of Audi, but I can't deny that car looks absolutely mean. Much better than the softer design BMW or MBZ have opted for. Whereas they prefer to give sport treatment to replaceable fascia and not the actual bodywork. I love the dark mineral gray, too. People find it boring, but I find it nice.

It's an S5, correct?
[doublepost=1526702388][/doublepost]

What I find interesting is before all the safety features were really included in cars today, I really didn’t care much about it in the past. As a Matter fact, I actually was one that just only opted for Blindspot monitoring on Sideview mirrors and that was sufficient enough for me. But realizing how much technology actually can _save_ lives, prevent accidents and assist the driver becoming more aware of their surroundings, I Appreciate auto manufacturers for implementing safety measures to make the roadway environment safer for the driver and other drivers around them.

Of Course technology can only go so far, as human error usually is at fault for the most part when it comes to accidents. But I think a lot of accidents can be prevented when you have technology that helps remind us or alert others of possible accidents.

The only other thing I want to play a role as cynic here, is that sometimes I think _too_ much technology can be distracting also, where the driver may not always be paying attention to the road With all the audible/visual alerts in the vehicle, thus resulting in an accident by itself (Which I have observed happen multiple times). But again, the driver is the one to be in control, but safety technology can be distracting at times as well.

Ford's Cross-Traffic monitoring is pretty freaking rad, too. Mazda has a version as a result of Ford owning them for a number of years. Hopefully they license it to other car manufacturers. I know Chevy makes good money on their magnetic suspension system in terms of licensing.

 

[44267547]

The cross traffic alerts is very good with Ford. (Only can comment on the SHO). On a similar tangent, it also brought to mind of adaptive cruise control, (GAP) which is a really unique feature once the driver understands the learning curve on the highway.

Essentially it’s an intelligent smart version of cruise control that increases and slows down the vehicle for you while maintaining a certain preset (Four different settings) of a distance of the following vehicle in front of you. It Can bring the vehicle to a complete stop in heavy traffic if need be. You can still set your desired speed just like you would with cruise control, having the system monitoring the vehicle (With the camera/radar sensor) in front of you for any changes in the driving behavior.

(Just for reference, the driver can use regular cruise control if somebody wants to, you don’t have to use the adaptive cruise control, which can be toggled. )

 

[Apple fanboy]

The cross traffic alerts is very good with Ford. (Only can comment on the SHO). On a similar tangent, it also brought to mind of adaptive cruise control, (GAP) which is a really unique feature once the driver understands the learning curve on the highway.

Essentially it’s an intelligent smart version of cruise control that increases and slows down the vehicle for you while maintaining a certain preset (Four different settings) of a distance of the following vehicle in front of you. It Can bring the vehicle to a complete stop in heavy traffic if need be. You can still set your desired speed just like you would with cruise control, having the system monitoring the vehicle (With the camera/radar sensor) in front of you for any changes in the driving behavior.

(Just for reference, the driver can use regular cruise control if somebody wants to, you don’t have to use the adaptive cruise control, which can be toggled. )

I have that on my Golf. It's a great feature. Makes for easy driving.

 

[Huntn]

Patricide?

@Huntn I see what you mean. However, badge engineering and partnerships have long been a part of automotive history and it's not a modern trend.

I am aware and acknowledge this, but besides this happening to my beloved 124 Spider, this case seems to be an extreme example for a major manufacturer to drop it’s signature name branding on a competitor’s product. Maybe Fiat should get out of the sports car business if the can’t produce an original idea. Maybe it has... No, no emotion here. Ok, maybe a tad. Anyway, I seem to have bonded with my Miata.

For my benefit, and with acknowledgement that Miata sits on the extreme low price end end of the spectrum, is there a case of where a manufacturer made arrangements to superficially alter a competitor’s iconic vehicle, then hang it’s own signature brand name on it as if it is theirs? Think of this happening with: Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, Porsche 911, Audi TT, Jaguar F-Type, Ferrari 458, Dodge Viper, etc, yes, sacrilege!

Ferrari 458, body by Pininfarina, a masterpiece.

​

 

[0388631]

Depends on your opinion of Singer, though that's a restomod. It's still registered as a Singer. There is RUF, though they purchase frames from Porsche and build their own car. On looks, they look similar, but on official records, it's no Porsche.

The Lamborghini Huracan and the Audi R8 V10+ are more or less the same vehicle in that they share a lot of components. Though that's not what you're pointing out and the first half of this post is more in line with yours.


Fiat slapping their name on a Miata to me meant that FCA didn't want to spend money on tooling for a potential low volume vehicle, and that FCA figured they would want more reliability. Then you have manufacturers like Ford who moved all their machinery across the pond and are chartering daily cargo flights to get supplies over so that F150 manufacturing can restart.

 

[heehee]

Oh, I remember you posting about the Audi months ago. Congratulations. It looks fantastic. I recall reading Audi/VAG spent a lot of R&D for making such sharp creases like that, but it might have been a tabloid rumor. I'm not a huge fan of Audi, but I can't deny that car looks absolutely mean. Much better than the softer design BMW or MBZ have opted for. Whereas they prefer to give sport treatment to replaceable fascia and not the actual bodywork. I love the dark mineral gray, too. People find it boring, but I find it nice.

It's an S5, correct?

Yes. It’s a S5.

Why don’t you like Audi? It’s my first and I love it. I like the BMW 128i manual my wife had more though.

 

[0388631]

Yes. It’s a S5.

Why don’t you like Audi? It’s my first and I love it. I like the BMW 128i manual my wife had more though.

Just the looks and the reputation they had for a long time. Though I do like the A/S/RS7. Not too keen on the new design but I go back and forth. I'm a very hands on type of driver and prefer to manipulate my controls rather than a single surface. Didn't like Audi handling for a long time and the ride quality. As the Germans are slowly inching towards AWD on more powerful vehicles, I personally prefer a heavily rear biased AWD system or RWD alone. Though, I do like the new 5er and the E.

I'm some years from the typical S class buyer range, but the S class doesn't offer much IMO in its current state other than very good luxury at under $120,000. In this segment, tech and luxury combination goes to the new A8. The new A8 goes above and beyond in terms of refinement, driver ease and safety. But, hey, in a BMW you can twirl your hand like a weirdo and make the volume go up and down!

I've driven only a few full size vehicles in my life that I really liked. But I'm not going to spend a quarter of a mill on them.

 

[44267547]

One of the sacrifices I didn’t realize I made when I purchased my Cervini Type IV Ram air hood, was that due to the open nostril design, rain can obviously enter inside the hood when driving. With an open intake system, I don’t want the filter to be saturated if there are times where I am driving in the midst of when its raining.

In this picture, the right nostril vent is where my CAI is directly located offset to the right.

Currently using an AEM closed system with the aluminum lid. Easy access to filter. Construction and fitment is _Superb_ quality.

Fully enclosed with the lid. Looks stellar under the Hood With the gun-metal gray piping and lid. First thing I noticed, is much more audible engine note as well with the system. Really enjoying the new set up and protecting from outside elements.

 

[bunnspecial]

Personally, count me as one who doesn't see a lot of point in "cold air intakes" for most applications.

The factory air box these days usually drafts from the wheel well or behind the front grill-a place that's a lot colder than just sucking air through a bare filter in the engine bay.

In addition, the factory intake system is usually engineered to balance street driveability-often meaning low end torque. Putting a wide open pipe on there CAN in theory increase top end power, but at times it does so at the expense of low end torque. I've seen dynos for some engine/CAI systems that lost both...

There's also the fact that oil-soaked rags(i.e. K&N) are inherently poor filters when compared with finely porous cellulose.

I go back to the "just say no" when it comes to CAIs. I also run paper filters in my cars-I won't let a K&N touch them.

 

[quagmire]

Personally, count me as one who doesn't see a lot of point in "cold air intakes" for most applications.

The factory air box these days usually drafts from the wheel well or behind the front grill-a place that's a lot colder than just sucking air through a bare filter in the engine bay.

In addition, the factory intake system is usually engineered to balance street driveability-often meaning low end torque. Putting a wide open pipe on there CAN in theory increase top end power, but at times it does so at the expense of low end torque. I've seen dynos for some engine/CAI systems that lost both...

There's also the fact that oil-soaked rags(i.e. K&N) are inherently poor filters when compared with finely porous cellulose.

I go back to the "just say no" when it comes to CAIs. I also run paper filters in my cars-I won't let a K&N touch them.

Yeah the factory intake system is already optimized for the stock output of the engine. It won't be a restriction until you are heavily modifying the engine which then air flow may become an issue and a new intake will then be beneficial....

Plus the MAF sensor is tuned for the stock intake. So when it sees more air coming through it won't know what to do exactly and may cause the engine to run too rich causing other issues like killing the cats.

On that note..... I can't stand people who remove their catalytic converters. Ignoring the environmental issue of that, but now I have to tolerate their smelly exhaust fumes for their ~5-10 HP gain which won't be able to be felt by their butt dynos. Jerks..... Cats are not the big power suckers anymore that they used to be.....

 

[0388631]

Car's computer can adjust provided it's a fairly new car. I don't see the point of intakes, either, unless it's on a high performance vehicle that'll see a huge increase. Had some detailing plans in mind this weekend but my shoulder is way too stiff to do anything right.

Was looking at new driveway masonry until I was told to quit it. I suppose nearly two dozen changes is enough.

 

[bunnspecial]

Car's computer can adjust provided it's a fairly new car. I don't see the point of intakes, either, unless it's on a high performance vehicle that'll see a huge increase

Yes, the MAF working with the ECM will adjust(or the MAP in cars without a MAF) and also use the downstream O2 sensors to make sure of that.

Still, as I said, the intake is tuned for a specific performance range. The intake, exhaust, and all the other factors work together with this. In many case, just letting more air flow through helps you out if you're mashing the pedal to the floor and keeping it there but not on the street.

 

[0388631]

Yes, the MAF working with the ECM will adjust(or the MAP in cars without a MAF) and also use the downstream O2 sensors to make sure of that.

Still, as I said, the intake is tuned for a specific performance range. The intake, exhaust, and all the other factors work together with this. In many case, just letting more air flow through helps you out if you're mashing the pedal to the floor and keeping it there but not on the street.

I hear you. I feel the same way with wheels. Lots of nice aftermarket wheel setups but I can't help but wonder how well tuned the original wheels are not just in ride comfort but overall handling.