The Car Thread ... !

[0388631]

While I’m generally not a fan of leasing, I think you’d be surprised on how cheap of lease deals you might be able to find. Especially if you do limited driving and aren’t looking for a long term commitment. Plus you don’t have to worry about out of warranty repairs and maintenance may be included.

While you can’t go wrong with Toyota, I’d also recommend looking at Subaru. Good reliability and AWD is a plus in our northeast climate. Many of the newer models have CVT transmissions which I’m not a fan of but if you’re looking for an older model they’re all traditional automatics or manuals.

Technically, you don't own the car if you finance until you pay it off. You're losing money either way. A lease makes sense if you don't want to have the same car for more than 2-3 years, or 1 year depending on some cars. A lease makes sense with certain marques or specific vehicles because they exhibit problems or the brand has a nearly century long history of problems...


Or leasing the first production year of a vehicle. There's pros and cons to both. Depends on the person.

 

[LizKat]

I'm probably going to continue to hunt down a Toyota. Quietly so I don't tick off my 20yo current ride.

 

[realtuner]

Technically, you don't own the car if you finance until you pay it off. You're losing money either way. A lease makes sense if you don't want to have the same car for more than 2-3 years, or 1 year depending on some cars. A lease makes sense with certain marques or specific vehicles because they exhibit problems or the brand has a nearly century long history of problems...


Or leasing the first production year of a vehicle. There's pros and cons to both. Depends on the person.

Financially leasing is a poor choice. There is only one scenario I can think of where it makes sense: You're self employed (or own a business) that requires a vehicle and you can write off the lease payments.

For everyone else you end up paying significantly more $$$ by leasing vehicles.

That said, I lease my vehicles. But only because our company offers a really good employee lease program.

 

[0388631]

For everyone else you end up paying significantly more $$$ by leasing vehicles.

In Canada? If you take a luxury sedan at $70,000, the lease payments hover around $850 for 36 mo. Maybe $5,000-6,000 due at signing, and acquisition fees at the end of the lease are capped for the most part. Compare this to financing a vehicle which can stretch the payment period out considerably and always at a higher cost, with the same amount or more down at signing.

I bought my GL new and paid a considerable amount down, and paid the car's balance before it was two years old. I did a similar thing for our old E and our current CLS. I avoided interest racking up, but I also lost over $40,000 just on my car alone because the car's value dropped like a rock. Anything remotely luxury does, except a Lexus. And even then you can find a person, particularly not bright, to buy a 4 year old Lexus with 50,000 miles at 70% MSRP if they're dumb enough.

Cars are a sunk cost. Even if you finance your vehicle, you won't own it until you make the last payment. And even with some of the Germans' newer and more reliable or rock-steady engines such as the B58 from BMW, few people will be taking that risk.

The guy who buys a CPO from the dealer that was a lease vehicle might get a good deal on paper, but it's a lease vehicle. That thing was very likely hooned.


Am I advocating anyone to lease? Hell no. You lease if you have a high paying career and can afford to 'rent' a car. In the same vain, you're paying to rent a car for 5-7 years and go forbid it isn't wrecked or stolen and your payout to your lender is a pittance.

I generally recommend people who can afford it to lease from the following makes:

Fiat
Alfa Romeo
Maserati
Certain BMW
Certain MBZ
Audis using older questionable technology
Land Rover
Volvo
Jeep
Dodge
et al.

When it comes to the Koreans, one of them offers 10 or 12 year bumper to bumper warranties. I'm not really sure what I'd recommend since I've not driven a modern one and wouldn't get one, but financing doesn't sound so bad even though their value will drop like a rock, too. Drive that **** into the ground.


Knock on wood my extended warranty for my GL ran out a while back. I've never had a serious issue with the car. My 2IS on the other hand has been in the dealer more times than I can count. I lucked out, but everything's been fixable. I could afford a major repair, say $12,000 on my GL, even though at this point and owning it for so long I see no point. If the engine kicks it, which it may with my driving style, I'm not paying the amount it costs to get it rebuilt. Screw that.

Low mileage (50K and below) 5.5 l V8s cost about 7 grand in parts (this engine hasn't been made in a while), but the mechanic or dealer costs would outweigh the value of the vehicle.

Unless I could convince Douglas DeMarcus to take the car for $10,000 over current market value for similar vehicles.

 

[0388631]

I'm probably going to continue to hunt down a Toyota. Quietly so I don't tick off my 20yo current ride.

Corolla makes the most sense to me. Camry isn't bad, but there's a generation of Camry one or two back that had oil burn problems or that was an isolated case. Older Civic isn't bad either, before they switched to CVT. The Corolla uses a CVT, too, unless they offer a manual you could pick up.

 

[D.T.]

Financially leasing is a poor choice. There is only one scenario I can think of where it makes sense: You're self employed (or own a business) that requires a vehicle and you can write off the lease payments.

For everyone else you end up paying significantly more $$$ by leasing vehicles.

You don't necessarily pay more, it's a usage model that can be very effective (outside of a business consideration) and greatly reduce hassle and unknown costs - if, for example, this in bold:

Technically, you don't own the car if you finance until you pay it off. You're losing money either way. A lease makes sense if you don't want to have the same car for more than 2-3 years, or 1 year depending on some cars.

I've owned quite a few vehicles, and used most "purchase" mechanisms, and unless you do a low rate finance __and__ drive it through the entire loan period __and__ drive it a few more years, the costs, both hard (ex: repairs) and soft (ex: lost time) can easily [negatively] offset the lack of a car payment.

We have a designated family car, it's meant to be safe, reliable, to stay [mostly] unmodified (vs. my cars which I abuse ), not have any unknown costs, no concern over wild market fluctuations, just hassle free, warranty backed ownership that ends when the warranty is over and the time cost for disposal is handing the keys to the dealer.

If you know how leases operate, and can work the right deal - which BTW, means zero down (never put money down on a lease ...) - you simply work the numbers, and shop the right mix of discounts, interest and very importantly, and a very good residual (that has all sorts of factors beyond the scope of this discussion).

 

[LizKat]

Corolla makes the most sense to me. Camry isn't bad, but there's a generation of Camry one or two back that had oil burn problems or that was an isolated case. Older Civic isn't bad either, before they switched to CVT. The Corolla uses a CVT, too, unless they offer a manual you could pick up.

tbh what makes the most sense to me is any ol' non-SUV used crate that doesn't burn oil, it's not like I'm going to drive it into the ground for 15 years as I usually do. Whatever I round up that my mechanic doesn't turn his nose up at will get the job done. Of course I fantasize that it's a 1980 Datsun 210B hatchback in mint condition that someone has found up on blocks in a barn in Tennessee and decided to flatbed up here and dump in a lot for me to discover. Old ladies can dream.

But yes the mostly likely "find" will be a Corolla sedan, there are still a lot of them around for a decent price. The Civics around here tend to get priced higher. I can hope people get drawn in by idea of a new car for the monthly tag on leasing, don't think about it too hard and so just tip their old ride into the used lot for me to pick up for $5k...

 

[Huntn]

tbh what makes the most sense to me is any ol' non-SUV used crate that doesn't burn oil, it's not like I'm going to drive it into the ground for 15 years as I usually do. Whatever I round up that my mechanic doesn't turn his nose up at will get the job done. Of course I fantasize that it's a 1980 Datsun 210B hatchback in mint condition that someone has found up on blocks in a barn in Tennessee and decided to flatbed up here and dump in a lot for me to discover. Old ladies can dream.

But yes the mostly likely "find" will be a Corolla sedan, there are still a lot of them around for a decent price. The Civics around here tend to get priced higher. I can hope people get drawn in by idea of a new car for the monthly tag on leasing, don't think about it too hard and so just tip their old ride into the used lot for me to pick up for $5k...

You don’t care for SUVs? I can’t ever see myself going back to a regular sedan as a primary vehicle, and still miss my truck.

 

[44267547]

Corolla makes the most sense to me. Camry isn't bad, but there's a generation of Camry one or two back that had oil burn problems or that was an isolated case. Older Civic isn't bad either, before they switched to CVT. The Corolla uses a CVT, too, unless they offer a manual you could pick up.

I just got to add, I think it’s awesome that the 2020 Corolla is offering a manual, and from the ‘hands-on reviews’ that I’ve watched from some more of the ‘notarized’ YouTuber’s, it’s a hoot to drive with the 2.0/6-Speed [169HP] with rev-matching! (I believe the Accord is still offering a manual.)

I bought the 2009 Corolla when it was a redesign year brand new, and I beat the ‘living fire’ out of that thing and it never failed on me. Probably one of the most reliable/dependable cars I’ve ever owned over the course of the last 13 cars I’ve owned/driven since.

 

[LizKat]

I just got to add, I think it’s awesome that the 2020 Corolla is offering a manual, and from the ‘hands-on reviews’ that I’ve watched from some more of the ‘notarized’ YouTuber’s, it’s a hoot to drive with the 2.0/6-Speed [169HP] with rev-matching! (I believe the Accord is still offering a manual.)

I bought the 2009 Corolla when it was a redesign year brand new, and I beat the ‘living fire’ out of that thing and it never failed on me. Probably one of the most reliable/dependable cars I’ve ever owned over the course of the last 13 cars I’ve owned/driven since.

My ol' 2000 Prizm with its Toyota engine is more or less a Corolla with a Chevy glove box or so they say. It was the first non-hatchback car I had owned since the once ubiquitous orange VW beetles started becoming harder to find back in the early 80s and I ended up in love with the blue Datsun I put 200k or so miles on.

I'd go back to a hatchback style now any day and have driven a few to see how they handle... but some of them seem to me more like SUVs than just a hatchbacked sedan type of vehicle. So I look for a sedan and figure I can abuse its back seat from time to time as if it were the rest of the hatchback a sedan's trunk doesn't quite cut. It is pretty amazing what you can stuff in the back seat of a sedan if you put the front passenger seat up to where a human couldn't bear to sit in for half an hour...

 

[vipergts2207]

Financially leasing is a poor choice. There is only one scenario I can think of where it makes sense: You're self employed (or own a business) that requires a vehicle and you can write off the lease payments.

For everyone else you end up paying significantly more $$$ by leasing vehicles.

That said, I lease my vehicles. But only because our company offers a really good employee lease program.

Agreed, average Joe leasing his car is just throwing money away. It’s much easier to come out ahead by financing. Do a 4 or 5 year term and then drive the car with no payment for another 5 years. By the time it’s time to buy another car, you could probably almost buy it in cash, if you put back a car payment every month. The idea of committing to having a car payment in perpetuity by leasing doesn’t appeal to me. I like the fact that it will one day be paid off and I can cross a monthly bill off for at least a few years. Plus nobody can tell me how many miles I’m allowed to drive it and you’re free to modify it if you want to.

 

[Apple fanboy]

You don’t care for SUVs? I can’t ever see myself going back to a regular sedan as a primary vehicle, and still miss my truck.

Can’t stand them. I prefer a lower centre of gravity as it corners better!

 

[Huntn]

Can’t stand them. I prefer a lower centre of gravity as it corners better!

Got the Mazda for that.

 

[LizKat]

I do like a Mazda.. or the memory of them anyway.

 

[0388631]

I'm not sure if Mazda has fixed their body panel rust issues. They likely have. I don't believe Mazda has Android Auto or Car Play if those are important to you. The CX3 is a nice little CUV that seems peppy. I see a decent amount of these on the road alongside Civics and Priuses. My own experiences with Mazda are extremes. One at each end. I leased a Mazdaspeed6 as a weekend car in the mid 2000s. Brilliant car. Really nippy. One of the most fun to drive cars I'd had in a long time. The other was a 2nd gen RX7 that spent more time being fixed than being driven, and thus was a garage "queen" in that regard. One of the worst cars I ever bought. The Japanese "sports" car market wasn't anything like it was a decade later or now. I have some regrets passing on other cars and picking that RX7 because the engine was unique to me, and the car's driving dynamics weren't bad either.

Many a time I wanted to get a sledge hammer and bonk the car with it all over and destroy it to smithereens. Happiest day was when I chucked it off to someone else.

The MS6 wasn't reliable like a modern Mazda. Though I question how unreliable it was because I abused the hell out of that car.

 

[Huntn]

I'm not sure if Mazda has fixed their body panel rust issues. They likely have. I don't believe Mazda has Android Auto or Car Play if those are important to you. The CX3 is a nice little CUV that seems peppy. I see a decent amount of these on the road alongside Civics and Priuses. My own experiences with Mazda are extremes. One at each end. I leased a Mazdaspeed6 as a weekend car in the mid 2000s. Brilliant car. Really nippy. One of the most fun to drive cars I'd had in a long time. The other was a 2nd gen RX7 that spent more time being fixed than being driven, and thus was a garage "queen" in that regard. One of the worst cars I ever bought. The Japanese "sports" car market wasn't anything like it was a decade later or now. I have some regrets passing on other cars and picking that RX7 because the engine was unique to me, and the car's driving dynamics weren't bad either.

​

Many a time I wanted to get a sledge hammer and bonk the car with it all over and destroy it to smithereens. Happiest day was when I chucked it off to someone else.

The MS6 wasn't reliable like a modern Mazda. Though I question how unreliable it was because I abused the hell out of that car.

My baby (not my picture though):

 

[0388631]

How do you like the Mazda? The coupe version looks nice, but I'm not sure I could fit in a Mazda given my height.

 

[44267547]

My ol' 2000 Prizm with its Toyota engine is more or less a Corolla with a Chevy glove box or so they say. It was the first non-hatchback car I had owned since the once ubiquitous orange VW beetles started becoming harder to find back in the early 80s and I ended up in love with the blue Datsun I put 200k or so miles on.

I'd go back to a hatchback style now any day and have driven a few to see how they handle... but some of them seem to me more like SUVs than just a hatchbacked sedan type of vehicle. So I look for a sedan and figure I can abuse its back seat from time to time as if it were the rest of the hatchback a sedan's trunk doesn't quite cut. It is pretty amazing what you can stuff in the back seat of a sedan if you put the front passenger seat up to where a human couldn't bear to sit in for half an hour...

Yup, I had a 2002 Chevy Prism LSI. (GM shell/Toyota engine/transmission.) It even had a CD player/sunroof. Totally reliable, excellent on fuel, low maintenance costs/inexpensive to repair, however I really never had to fix it when I did have it. It did start to burn oil at one point, but it was a non-issue as long as you monitored/added oil when necessary. They run forever, amazingly enough, I still see them on the road today driving around. The Prisms are one tough S.O.B.

 

[2298754]

And even then you can find a person, particularly not bright, to buy a 4 year old Lexus with 50,000 miles at 70% MSRP if they're dumb enough.

Would this be in the same dreamworld where Mercedes only come with real leather (and every option) and late-model CPO 911 Turbo Ss with <10k miles on them sell for under $70k?

 

[LizKat]

Yup, I had a 2002 Chevy Prism LSI. (GM shell/Toyota engine/transmission.) It even had a CD player/sunroof. Totally reliable, excellent on fuel, low maintenance costs/inexpensive to repair, however I really never had to fix it when I did have it. It did start to burn oil at one point, but it was a non-issue as long as you monitored/added oil when necessary. They run forever, amazingly enough, I still see them on the road today driving around. The Prisms are one tough S.O.B.

Yep all I've done is change the oil and celebrate the gas mileage... and once in awhile get some brake work, since even with five speeds, the mountains sometimes call for a few gravity checks. Still working on the same clutch even. There's one county road, a shortcut en route to NYC that has a half mile 14% or so grade on it. There is what amounts to a runaway ramp for failing brakes before a curve near the bottom, but it's just really some hapless farmer's driveway. That thing is not a hill for the faint of heart nor for the careless car owner either.

But that 2000 Prizm has been the best $5k I ever laid out cash for, and I will miss it when I round up a replacement. Unlike when I was commuting to the city, I won't keep a spare rat car now as a backup, so this car's probably headed for the scrap heap after the engine is pulled and the shell first becomes what my mechanic calls "a cereal bowl" to contain whatever other scrap he accumulates from his work before he decides to put it up on the flatbed and go cash it all in.

 

[0388631]

Would this be in the same dreamworld where Mercedes only come with real leather (and every option) and late-model CPO 911 Turbo Ss with <10k miles on them sell for under $70k?

https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/JTJHY7AX6F4183029

This one is above 50% value but if you're paying 22K for an RX with nearly 60K miles you're an idiot.

https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/2T2ZK1BA6EC140656

30K Miles and a mere $11K off from MSRP.

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-2015-Lexus-RX-350-c24351#listing=243932609

$29K with 44K miles.
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-2015-Lexus-RX-350-c24351#listing=245213463

$27.6K for 48K miles.
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-2015-Lexus-RX-350-c24351#listing=243454102

$28.5 for 52.5K miles.
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-2015-Lexus-RX-350-c24351#listing=240413876

$28.5 for 60.6K miles.
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-2015-Lexus-RX-350-c24351#listing=243332604

$34K for 49.3K miles.
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-2015-Lexus-IS-350-c24521#listing=213418980

$30.5K for 49.4K miles.
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-2015-Lexus-IS-350-c24521#listing=243712660

I could go on for days. I also never said S, I said Turbo, and never said .2, .1 is fair game. But, hey, I'll keep an eye out for one even if it's in a revolting color and interior trim combination. It should go well with your Panamara 4S and GT3 ever since you got rid of your Tesla Model S P85D. You like green, right? PTS Brewster green with full tan leather would be sweet if not incredibly rare.

 

[A.Goldberg]

I'm probably going to continue to hunt down a Toyota. Quietly so I don't tick off my 20yo current ride.

No, you should be as vocal as possible. As soon as I started looking at cars to buy my 2009 BMW 535 has been shockingly reliable. Once it knew it’s days were numbered it put on its best behavior.

 

[0388631]

No, you should be as vocal as possible. As soon as I started looking at cars to buy my 2009 BMW 535 has been shockingly reliable. Once it knew it’s days were numbered it put on its best behavior.

I don't think it works like that, but your BMW has been fairly reliable per your messages. At this point if you're not concerned about getting a new car, just keep driving it. Did you ever explore the idea of purchasing a small CPO CUV with 4WD?

 

[A.Goldberg]

I don't think it works like that, but your BMW has been fairly reliable per your messages. At this point if you're not concerned about getting a new car, just keep driving it. Did you ever explore the idea of purchasing a small CPO CUV with 4WD?

Given my limited daily commute (about 12 miles round trip) and recent purchase of a home, I don’t have a huge impetus to unnecessarily buy a new car. That said I’m anticipating I will have to replace the car sooo. My S.O. usually takes the train to work, given the Green Line trollies are right around the corner and it’s more convenient. So her car doesn’t get much use.

A few weeks ago my 535 wouldn’t start one morning. I had it towed to the dealer, in the back of mind I was thinking “this might be it”. In fact it was a dead coil pack. The dealer called and quoted something like $1200 (for all 6)- my initial response to the service manager was about 10 seconds of laughing.

I ordered 6 Bosch coil packs on Amazon for <$130, though I suppose I could have just replaced the single failed unit for ~$25. I took I don’t know, half an hour. And that also included rather unnecessarily changing out the spark plugs too.

As I’ve mentioned, when it’s finally time for the BMW to be replaced I’ll probably buy an XC60 T6 Inscription (or maybe a XC90). My sister’s new Wrangler Unlimited Sahara purchase has peaked my interest as a fun car, though as a daily driver I’m not sure I’d be happy with the size and ride characteristics (though the JL is a huge improvement over the older Wrangler models- on the flip side, diving on Boston’s pothole infested roads is almost like driving off-road). I’m also curious what the new Land Rover Defender will bring too, but LR is taking it’s sweet time to release it. The new X3 or another 5-series or E-class is a consideration too.

In terms of more reliable options, I really do like my father’s Lexus IS350 AWD- but it’s a bit small and the ride is a bit harsh even without the F-Sport package. I also like the Land Cruiser, but it’s way bigger than I’d prefer to have. It’ll be interesting to see what the soon to be released updated Lexus GX470 will offer. I just don’t think I can tolerate the atrocious spindle grill the current model has.

What I like about Volvo’s and cars like the Land Cruiser is that they’re premium cars with far less of a inherent ostentatious nature compared to typical luxury brands.

 

[LizKat]

No, you should be as vocal as possible. As soon as I started looking at cars to buy my 2009 BMW 535 has been shockingly reliable. Once it knew it’s days were numbered it put on its best behavior.

!!! Maybe I been going about this all wrong. Next time it hesitates when it starts, I'll leave the newspaper in the car, open to the used car ads. A few hints like that should get me through to next spring anyway.