The Car Thread ... !

[A.Goldberg]

A neighbbor had a Audi wagon and told me last month os so he had Euro spec headlight housinga tthat were not DOT apporved never had issues. His current Beetle he has also has no front plate he took the bracket off because it was beginning to fall off, he never had any problems with no front plate either. Rochester police are too busy to even care. 133 cops vs 110k people.

Why do you ask a question, then people tell you the answer, and then you say you don't even care? Why do you ask for advice and then refute it? If you're looking to an answer for all your legal questions, you can do whatever you want within the laws of physics. Just because someone does something illegal and gets away with it does not make it legal or that you won't get caught. If you want to risk the fine, go ahead and do it.

I grew up in a town with <18,000 people and 3-4 cops. People still got pulled over for stupid things like license plates lights. Cops are assigned to traffic duty, it's a great source of revenue for the department and state. Illegal taillights are an easy target.

I see cars with likely illegal modifications all the time. I know people who have done light changes and have been pulled over. If the police wants to pull you over for any reason, now they have a great one.

Honestly I don't think most people even CARE about the value or lackthereof of their vehicles because most people get a new car after 3 years so most people probably don't even care about value. There is not many people out there like me that use 15yo cars as daily drivers.

Most people care highly about the value of their car. For most people its the #1 or #2 most expensive thing they own (#1 being a house). Even though insurance is required by law, if it wasn't, I'm quite sure most people would still insure their vehicle. The difference in price between a beat up car and a clean one is tremendous. Most people want to buy a car in good cosmetic condition, otherwise the price will suffer. If it's a leased car, any damage will be have to be repaired or paid to the bank. A beat up collectors car is pretty not worth anything close to a restored one.

If they're buying a new car every "3 years", you don't think they're at all concerned about the resale value of the car? The average is closer to 5 historically, but given the economy and better longevity of cars, the average number is closer towards 10.

As far as it beeing a teenage thing..... they most likely don't care about car value because they're TEENAGES the thing will be totalled in less than a year anyway. Plus a car has to HAVE value to even BE devalued.

I find most teenagers care about damaging their car. Their poor driving skills and higher risk taking behavior is what results in the damage. I know plenty of teenagers that have totalled cars, but I know plenty that haven't. It has nothing to do with ruining personal property.

How many people do you know get a dent in their car and don't say "F$%)!!!" ?

 

[MatthewLTL]

I'm 35 and daily drive a 1997 Jeep Wrangler that I've put well over 200k miles on since I bought it in 2000 or 2001. I've replaced the engine, transmission, rear differential, and virtually every other mechanical part on at least one time. It's not about just "value" to me, it's about value, taste, class & respect. I have rust coming through my fenders and I still respect myself and my vehicle enough not to put stupid crap all over it. It may not be worth more than $2k with the issues it has and the 265k miles on the odometer, but that doesn't mean I'm going to cheapen it even more by bolting on every < $20 "look at me" thing I can find on eBay or in Walmart or a parts store.

My pedal covers are almost worn through again. I'm going to buy OE style replacements, not those stupid looking colored "race style" bolt on crap they sell at the parts store.

The bottom line is that most "mods" and all appearance mods to an older vehicle are dumb if that vehicle also needs other maintenance things to be done to it. Why would you spend money upgrading the interior or lighting on a car that needs brakes, a/c service, and looks like it hasn't been cleaned inside in a decade?



Teenagers are idiots with no taste. People that think adding stick on "speed holes" to their fenders will increase the value or performance or even look good.

I have a rust hole in the rocker panel.

Matthew,
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to knock you for your vehicle being filthy or even your odd fascination with Daewoo. My Wrangler, which I do care about, hasn't been washed in years. It's probably only been vacuumed out once in the last two years. That said, I'm not trying to blog about it like it's a masterpiece collector's vehicle that is something special. My friends give me grief and tell me that my Jeep is a POS and that I should sell it.

You can own a vehicle that you personally have an attachment to and take pride in ownership of that vehicle without crudding it up with a bunch of cheapo "upgrades". Just don't expect others to share your appreciation for your favorite junker, and stop trying to justify it with ridiculous claims of how it's somehow "better" than newer vehicles. Let's face it. If you were given the opportunity to pick between your Daewoo and a 2015 compact from Ford, Chevy, Kia, Honda, or Hyundai, would you honestly pick the Daewoo with 10 years of grime inside, no A/C, and various mechanical issues?

edit: It's just like I told my dad when he was looking for a reliable vehicle after separating from his wife. You need to get something modern that you don't have to work on, because you don't have the ability (he's on disability now and getting older) to "fix up" something old that needs work. Rather than taking my advice and looking at a compact Hyundai that gets 40mpg and has a 10 year 100k warranty for a couple hundy a month, he went out and bought a 1985 El Camino with fading paint and 50k original miles, talking about how low the miles were and how it shouldn't need much work. I've lost count of the times I've had to help him work on that redneck junkheap. Just changing the rear shocks made me want to pour gas on it and strike a match.

My Car hasn't been washed since 2010, The interior has never been cleaned never needed it. The seats are in perfect shape. I specifically stated that my car was better (appearence wise) than MOST cars of the time period (2000-2005) and appearence wise looks better than most GM Vehicles from 2006-2013 which lack any kind of style or origionality.

I think this is a key point.

I have spoken many times in this thread about my "pride and joy" Lincoln LS. It's a car to which I'm very attached and which I love driving. It's been with me for nearly 8 years and 80,000 miles. I take a lot of pride in keeping it clean and in as good of mechanical shape as I can. At the same time, though, it is my daily driver and after 140K miles it looks the part. As hard as I try, I can't hide the door dings, side view mirror scrapes(my fault) or the idiot time I dinged the rear quarter to take the battery out of my dad's car to Autozone. In short, I'd put it at above average condition for an 11 year old daily driver with 140K miles, but it's far from perfect. In fact, I was just thinking this morning about how I'm really overdue to do a full hand wash, wax, and-most importantly-polish the clouded headlight lenses.

To me, I get genuinely excited every time I take a sharp curve in my LS, or accelerate out on a curvy back road and hear the V8 roar to life. I'll readily admit that it's not the car for everyone. For some folks, they'd rather have a more comfortable ride(i.e. a Mercedes) or a better handling ride(BMW). I'd put the LS somewhere between examples I've drive of the two, and to me it's a great compromise.

At the same time, though, there's a reason why they haven't been made in 9 years. The biggest motivator was poor sales(I think likely because it really wasn't a car that appealed to Lincoln's target market at the time, nor were the people to whom it appealed likely to buy a Lincoln), along with a change in direction a Ford that really left the LS without a place in the line-up. It didn't help that it was an oddball platform(DEW-98) that was only shared with the short-lived T-bird and the Jaguar S-type(FoMoCo was trying to get rid of Jaguar at the time).

Along those same lines, it was designed to take the Cadillac Catera and do "one better" on it(which I'll add-having driven both extensively-FoMoCo hit it out of the ballpark). Cadillac really one-upped them with the CTS, however-especially the CTS-V, and the LS couldn't compete without Ford pouring serious money into it that they didn't want to and probably couldn't justify.

So, again, while I'll probably(figuratively) drive mine until the wheels fall off-or at least find the stereotypical 2006 "Grandma drove it to Church on Sunday" LS-that's my decision and I don't necessarily expect anyone else to agree with me.

Sounds simular to me. Main reason I wont sell my car is it has ALOT of sentimental value, It's the only new car my family has owned since I was born. And it's rareity also keeps me attached (the hatchbacks I see often) the Sedans like mine are less common to see and i have yet to ever SEE a 2001-2002 Lanos Sedan on the road.

Now I do know in reality that I cannot keep this car forever. NOTHING lasts forever and I know eventually it will need to goto the boneyard.... BUT I want to make sure to drive it up until its no possible to do anymore for a 2001, in MN winters rust wise its in almost perfect shape. I will probabally (figuritively) like you, drive it until it falls apart beneath me.

 

[MatthewLTL]

Why do you ask a question, then people tell you the answer, and then you say you don't even care? Why do you ask for advice and then refute it? If you're looking to an answer for all your legal questions, you can do whatever you want within the laws of physics. Just because someone does something illegal and gets away with it does not make it legal or that you won't get caught. If you want to risk the fine, go ahead and do it.

I grew up in a town with <18,000 people and 3-4 cops. People still got pulled over for stupid things like license plates lights. Cops are assigned to traffic duty, it's a great source of revenue for the department and state. Illegal taillights are an easy target.

I see cars with likely illegal modifications all the time. I know people who have done light changes and have been pulled over. If the police wants to pull you over for any reason, now they have a great one.


Most people care highly about the value of their car. For most people its the #1 or #2 most expensive thing they own (#1 being a house). Even though insurance is required by law, if it wasn't, I'm quite sure most people would still insure their vehicle. The difference in price between a beat up car and a clean one is tremendous. Most people want to buy a car in good cosmetic condition, otherwise the price will suffer. If it's a leased car, any damage will be have to be repaired or paid to the bank. A beat up collectors car is pretty not worth anything close to a restored one.

If they're buying a new car every "3 years", you don't think they're at all concerned about the resale value of the car? The average is closer to 5 historically, but given the economy and better longevity of cars, the average number is closer towards 10.


I find most teenagers care about damaging their car. Their poor driving skills and higher risk taking behavior is what results in the damage. I know plenty of teenagers that have totalled cars, but I know plenty that haven't. It has nothing to do with ruining personal property.

How many people do you know get a dent in their car and don't say "F$%)!!!" ?

1. What kind have you seen? I, on average, see atleast 1 ever day or two.
2. No. I don't actually. Why? Because I happen to know that if you trade in your old car for a new one. you get absolutely NOTHING for your old car anyway. They "mark" down the selling price bases upon the "Value" of your old car THEN just pile on taxes/fees or other stuff that makes you walk out PAYING sticker anyway!
I also happen yo know that most don't buy cars from private sellers. BECAUSE people have the notion that something is wrong with it because people don't get rid of cars (trade in or private sell) unless the CoO exceedes the value of the car OR they simply can't afford the grocery list of problems to fix.
3. None actually. I don't know many people. I have however said that myself when I either dinged my own car OR discovered a ding i never noticed before.

 

[MatthewLTL]

Do any of you happen to know the kind of bulb used in the mirror (map) lights of a GM? Yet another interior light in the Impala had burned out. Being the Impala is my mom's car I discussed replacing all interior lights with LEDs so they wont keep burning out, and asked her what colour of LEDs she would want. She said Purple LEDS would be cool. (her favourite colour is purple). I know for a fact (from replacing pretty much every single interior bulb before) (most were missing or burned out when we got the car) that the whole car (even taillights) take a T10 bulb. BUT i popped the lenses off the mirror lights and it appears the mirror has much smaller bulbs in it. I assume it's a T5 bulb. Can any of you confirm that the mirror lights in a GM are T5?

 

[A.Goldberg]

No. I don't actually. Why? Because I happen to know that if you trade in your old car for a new one. you get absolutely NOTHING for your old car anyway. They "mark" down the selling price bases upon the "Value" of your old car THEN just pile on taxes/fees or other stuff that makes you walk out PAYING sticker anyway!

It's true if you trade in a car you get less than private party, I wouldn't say "nothing"- that depends on your car. If its every "3 years", your car won't be worth "nothing". If your car is an old POS, then yes, you will essentially get nothing and the <$1000 is quite negligible. The trade in price and selling price may be related, but with your theory taken all the way doesn't quite make sense. The dealer will theoretically sell the car at the same price i.e. 20,0000. If your car is worth 1,0000 and mine is worth 17,000, you will pay 19,000 on top of your car, I will pay 3,000...

I don't know why you assume they'd wouldn't you substantially less for a car with more damage to it? If I can make more excuses to give you less money on the trade, why would I not do that? Then they can sell/auction the car for more than you paid, and just make more money off it. FYI, very few people actually ever pay sticker price, unless it's a high demand car with a limited quantity.

Given people prefer to buy clean cars, they either have to sell it at a lower price to make it worth it or repair the damage before they sell it. Simple principal of economics in play there. I'm not sure how many cars you've bought/traded/sold in your life, but condition absolutely plays a huge roll in the pricing. Ever notice a hail damaged car sells for 1/2 the price of a clean car?

Hypothetical: So you're trying to tell me if I have two identical cars for sale (or trade)... 2x 2000 Daewoo Lanoses with 47,000 miles, both in perfect mechanical condition, both with the same recent repairs, both with the same options... #1 is in pristine condition, it looks brand new. #2 has scratches, door dings, paint flaking off the bumpers, maybe a dent, adhesive on the dashboard, stained seats, mismatching aftermarket interior parts, a dirty interior, etc.... would people be willing to pay the same price for each of these vehicles? If both were for sale side by side, which would you buy? The clean one or the dirty one... for the same amount of money? What if the dirty one cost 1/3 less? That changes the game, right?

Once a car is traded in, it doesn't just disappear into the dealer's black hole. It gets resold, so this same principal applies. And if we both traded our cars, a 2000 Daewoo Lanos and a 2009 BMW 535xi, for a 2015 Chevy Spark, do you think we'd pay the same price for the new car?

I also happen yo know that most don't buy cars from private sellers. BECAUSE people have the notion that something is wrong with it because people don't get rid of cars (trade in or private sell) unless the CoO exceedes the value of the car OR they simply can't afford the grocery list of problems to fix.

What does that have to do anything. Even if you sell a car private party, the worse condition it's in aesthetically the less you'll pay. Dealers offer warranties and are typically bound to different legal ramifications when selling cars. That is why most dealers won't sell cars that are too old or have too high of miles.

3. None actually. I don't know many people. I have however said that myself when I either dinged my own car OR discovered a ding i never noticed before.

I suppose since you apparently don't know people, this becomes a hypothetical... "How do you think people would feel if they get their car dented?". You've never seen someone on TV, especially on an insurance commercial, get in an accident and look upset? They react the same way you would.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Do any of you happen to know the kind of bulb used in the mirror (map) lights of a GM? Yet another interior light in the Impala had burned out. Being the Impala is my mom's car I discussed replacing all interior lights with LEDs so they wont keep burning out, and asked her what colour of LEDs she would want. She said Purple LEDS would be cool. (her favourite colour is purple). I know for a fact (from replacing pretty much every single interior bulb before) (most were missing or burned out when we got the car) that the whole car (even taillights) take a T10 bulb. BUT i popped the lenses off the mirror lights and it appears the mirror has much smaller bulbs in it. I assume it's a T5 bulb. Can any of you confirm that the mirror lights in a GM are T5?

1. Go to http://www.google.com
2. Type in "2001 Impala Map Light"
3. Review Results
4. Answer = It's a size 194 lightbulb.

I've never heard of a car using T10 bulbs- I thought T10 were those long, skinny tubular bulbs.

 

[MatthewLTL]

1. Go to http://www.google.com
2. Type in "2001 Impala Map Light"
3. Review Results
4. Answer = It's a size 194 lightbulb.

I've never heard of a car using T10 bulbs- I thought T10 were those long, skinny tubular bulbs.

T10, 168, 194, 501, W5W, all the same bulb. As I stated this ISN'T a T10 bulb in the mirror. I replaced all but 3 (including the bulbs in the mirror) interior bulbs AND a reverse light. The Interior lights (Floor, Trunk, back lamps (above both rear doors) ALL take T10/194 bulbs. The mirror bulbs ARE NOT even the same size physically. I assume this means it's a T5. I already looked on google hence why this question was asked because I know for a FACT the size stated (194) is TOO big!

 

[wct097]

Being the Impala is my mom's car I discussed replacing all interior lights with LEDs so they wont keep burning out

Is this the same car with painter's tape and zip ties holding the side mirror together? In my opinion, you should fix real problems like that and stop worrying about "upgrading" and pointless preventative fixes like swapping bulbs for shoddy quality eBay LEDs. Those LEDs are probably less reliable than the bulbs. Sure, they may not have a filament to burn out, but they'll have a crappy quality driver board that will fail in no time.

Why would you change the color of the lights? You realize that there is a reason why manufacturers use certain color lights, right? White light gives good visibility. Other colors, not so much. Try reading something under purple light vs white light. If you "upgrade" all of her bulbs to purple LEDs, you're devaluing the car by making the lighting less than optimal. In this case "devalue" doesn't really mean dropping the resale value, though I personally would run from such a "modified" vehicle, but reducing it's usefulness. Lets see what her makeup looks like if she's freshening it up by purple light in her car at night.

If I were ever considering buying a vehicle that had any of your "mods" done to it, I'd run, not walk away from it. The reason that devalues your car is because when people see questionable things like that done to a vehicle, they get really concerned about the competence of the person who thought they knew what they were doing while "maintaining" the vehicle. You never know what ridiculous "fixes' that person may have concocted.

Your vehicle timeline/blogs read like a train wreck. Let's worry about license plate screws! Cheap chrome frames! New mismatched license plate screws! Broken parts that actually affect the use of the car to be fixed sometime. Got a quote to get another problem fixed, but didn't get it fixed. New cheapo chrome license plate frames! New license plate screws (flat head this time, so when they rust and strip you really won't be able to get them out)! Replacing (working) quality bulbs with low quality Chinese junk LEDs from eBay as preventative maintenance without checking to see if they're blowing because of another problem.

You really, really need to stop "working" on your own vehicles. You seem to have your priorities completely mixed up when it comes to repairs, preventative maintenance, and "mods".

If you're really seeing an undue number of bulbs blowing, have you considered that you may have an electrical problem? Try taking it to a parts store and having the alternator tested. Could be that you're blowing bulbs rapidly due to a bad voltage regulator.

 

[wct097]

My Car hasn't been washed since 2010, The interior has never been cleaned never needed it. The seats are in perfect shape.

It's filthy, based on your pictures. I think most would disagree with your assertion that it doesn't need to be cleaned.

I specifically stated that my car was better (appearence wise) than MOST cars of the time period (2000-2005) and appearence wise looks better than most GM Vehicles from 2006-2013 which lack any kind of style or origionality.

While that's a very subjective observation, I think you're going to be in the minority there. Even in great shape and pristine condition, no reasonable person is going to agree that a 2001 Lanos is more attractive than most GM vehicles from 2006-2013. If anything it's completely the opposite. The Lanos is very generic and wouldn't stand out from a Hyundai or Kia from the same era.

2001 Lanos:

2001 Kia Rio

2001 Hyundai Accent

Now lets look at some 2006 GM cars and see which ones seem more original.

See what I mean when I say that you should enjoy your car if you like it but stop making outlandish justifications as to why it's better?

 

[MatthewLTL]

It's true if you trade in a car you get less than private party, I wouldn't say "nothing"- that depends on your car. If its every "3 years", your car won't be worth "nothing". If your car is an old POS, then yes, you will essentially get nothing and the <$1000 is quite negligible. The trade in price and selling price may be related, but with your theory taken all the way doesn't quite make sense. The dealer will theoretically sell the car at the same price i.e. 20,0000. If your car is worth 1,0000 and mine is worth 17,000, you will pay 19,000 on top of your car, I will pay 3,000...

I don't know why you assume they'd wouldn't you substantially less for a car with more damage to it? If I can make more excuses to give you less money on the trade, why would I not do that? Then they can sell/auction the car for more than you paid, and just make more money off it. FYI, very few people actually ever pay sticker price, unless it's a high demand car with a limited quantity.

Given people prefer to buy clean cars, they either have to sell it at a lower price to make it worth it or repair the damage before they sell it. Simple principal of economics in play there. I'm not sure how many cars you've bought/traded/sold in your life, but condition absolutely plays a huge roll in the pricing. Ever notice a hail damaged car sells for 1/2 the price of a clean car?

Hypothetical: So you're trying to tell me if I have two identical cars for sale (or trade)... 2x 2000 Daewoo Lanoses with 47,000 miles, both in perfect mechanical condition, both with the same recent repairs, both with the same options... #1 is in pristine condition, it looks brand new. #2 has scratches, door dings, paint flaking off the bumpers, maybe a dent, adhesive on the dashboard, stained seats, mismatching aftermarket interior parts, a dirty interior, etc.... would people be willing to pay the same price for each of these vehicles? If both were for sale side by side, which would you buy? The clean one or the dirty one... for the same amount of money? What if the dirty one cost 1/3 less? That changes the game, right?

Once a car is traded in, it doesn't just disappear into the dealer's black hole. It gets resold, so this same principal applies. And if we both traded our cars, a 2000 Daewoo Lanos and a 2009 BMW 535xi, for a 2015 Chevy Spark, do you think we'd pay the same price for the new car?


What does that have to do anything. Even if you sell a car private party, the worse condition it's in aesthetically the less you'll pay. Dealers offer warranties and are typically bound to different legal ramifications when selling cars. That is why most dealers won't sell cars that are too old or have too high of miles.


I suppose since you apparently don't know people, this becomes a hypothetical... "How do you think people would feel if they get their car dented?". You've never seen someone on TV, especially on an insurance commercial, get in an accident and look upset? They react the same way you would.

Lets give a real-life senario.

My grandpa bought my moms a new used car in 2000. The car she was driving was my grandpa's old 1986 or '88 Mercury sedan. The power windows didnt work car was hit when we were parked and had a big dent. It never started in winter (fords eh?...) (that car NEVER started in winter since my grandpa bought it he had to have a block heater installed). Point being he went to trade it in. The car he ended up buying my mom was a 1997 Mercury Tracer Station Wagon. The sticker price was $10,000. They gave him I believer $500 for the trade, which reduced the car's price to $9,500. After signing all the paperwork and adding up the bill of sale he walked out paying EXACTLY $10,000 anyway. When my mom used this car for work (the main reason my grandpa decided to get her the car knowing his 86 or 88 wasnt reliable enough. 3 months later my mom got T-Boned in this car the entire side from the fender to the back door (passenger side) was caved in, axel broke and tyre caved in. Airbags DEPLOYED, Drive side airbag pushed he back with such force it dislocated her neck, gave her SEVERE whiplash, the PASSENGER airbag hit her on her right shoulder and DISLOCATED IT, SHOVED her with such force into the driver's door it dislocated her LEFT shoulder too. Her elbows, fingers, back AND RIBS were also SEVERLY dislocated, All of these injuries she STILL suffers from today (YES, 15 years later).

THAT's THE AIRBAG STORY. So don't try telling me "airbags don't give you whiplash or dont hurt you". She would of been better off without the airbags. and IF she didn't have the ABS making the car palsate she most likey could of prevented the wreck by stopping in time damn ABS didn't help matters made them worse.

The accident caused over $10,000 in damages, The insurance company SPECIFICALLY said if the airbags DIDN'T deploy they would have fixed the car. They said the combination of the airbags costing $1500 a piece and the shattered windsheild from the airbags is the main reason they totalled it out.

Is this the same car with painter's tape and zip ties holding the side mirror together? In my opinion, you should fix real problems like that and stop worrying about "upgrading" and pointless preventative fixes like swapping bulbs for shoddy quality eBay LEDs. Those LEDs are probably less reliable than the bulbs. Sure, they may not have a filament to burn out, but they'll have a crappy quality driver board that will fail in no time.

Why would you change the color of the lights? You realize that there is a reason why manufacturers use certain color lights, right? White light gives good visibility. Other colors, not so much. Try reading something under purple light vs white light. If you "upgrade" all of her bulbs to purple LEDs, you're devaluing the car by making the lighting less than optimal. In this case "devalue" doesn't really mean dropping the resale value, though I personally would run from such a "modified" vehicle, but reducing it's usefulness. Lets see what her makeup looks like if she's freshening it up by purple light in her car at night.

If I were ever considering buying a vehicle that had any of your "mods" done to it, I'd run, not walk away from it. The reason that devalues your car is because when people see questionable things like that done to a vehicle, they get really concerned about the competence of the person who thought they knew what they were doing while "maintaining" the vehicle. You never know what ridiculous "fixes' that person may have concocted.

Your vehicle timeline/blogs read like a train wreck. Let's worry about license plate screws! Cheap chrome frames! New mismatched license plate screws! Broken parts that actually affect the use of the car to be fixed sometime. Got a quote to get another problem fixed, but didn't get it fixed. New cheapo chrome license plate frames! New license plate screws (flat head this time, so when they rust and strip you really won't be able to get them out)! Replacing (working) quality bulbs with low quality Chinese junk LEDs from eBay as preventative maintenance without checking to see if they're blowing because of another problem.

You really, really need to stop "working" on your own vehicles. You seem to have your priorities completely mixed up when it comes to repairs, preventative maintenance, and "mods".

If you're really seeing an undue number of bulbs blowing, have you considered that you may have an electrical problem? Try taking it to a parts store and having the alternator tested. Could be that you're blowing bulbs rapidly due to a bad voltage regulator.

People change the dash light colors all the time they also change the interior lights too. It's LIGHTS!

The mirror IS going to be replaced, the problem is FINDING one. This car has heated mirrors all the mirrors i can get locally or online are just power NOT heated.

I suppose you will tell me a non-matching mirror and door handles will "devalue" the car too?

 

[MatthewLTL]

It's filthy, based on your pictures. I think most would disagree with your assertion that it doesn't need to be cleaned.



While that's a very subjective observation, I think you're going to be in the minority there. Even in great shape and pristine condition, no reasonable person is going to agree that a 2001 Lanos is more attractive than most GM vehicles from 2006-2013. If anything it's completely the opposite. The Lanos is very generic and wouldn't stand out from a Hyundai or Kia from the same era.

2001 Lanos:

2001 Kia Rio

2001 Hyundai Accent

Now lets look at some 2006 GM cars and see which ones seem more original.

See what I mean when I say that you should enjoy your car if you like it but stop making outlandish justifications as to why it's better?

That is a 1998-2000 Daewoo Lanos not a 2001. And if you do a side-profile the Chevy Caviler, and pontiac sunfire of the same era they look almost identical

EDIT: MANY cars look like a Daewoo Lanos. Even some Honda civics of the era have ALMOST the exact same style headlights I have confused severeral of these Civics for a daewoo from a distance.

 

[D.T.]

Now lets look at some 2006 GM cars and see which ones seem more original.

I've always dug on the GTO. I get that the exterior design is a little "plain Jane" and I guess not really "worthy" of the GTO badge, but it's functional, and the interior (outstanding seats**) is terrific (Holden vs. GM interiors of the time was no contest).

An LSx powered coupe (with a vast aftermarket), that seats 4, well done interior, dressed up decently with a nice set of wheels for $30K-ish? Heck yeah.



** I'm a huge advocate of good seating, I think it really enhances the driving experience.

 

[MatthewLTL]

That is a 1998-2000 Daewoo Lanos not a 2001. And if you do a side-profile the Chevy Caviler, and pontiac sunfire of the same era they look almost identical

I've always dug on the GTO. I get that the exterior design is a little "plain Jane" and I guess not really "worthy" of the GTO badge, but it's functional, and the interior (outstanding seats**) is terrific (Holden vs. GM interiors of the time was no contest).

An LSx powered coupe (with a vast aftermarket), that seats 4, well done interior, dressed up decently with a nice set of wheels for $30K-ish? Heck yeah.



** I'm a huge advocate of good seating, I think it really enhances the driving experience.

I agree on the seating part. Pickups generally don't have good seating, most econemy cars don't either.

 

[wct097]

Matthew,
You seem to have a really random and illogical way of reasoning that I just don't understand or follow.

The sticker price was $10,000. They gave him I believer $500 for the trade, which reduced the car's price to $9,500. After signing all the paperwork and adding up the bill of sale he walked out paying EXACTLY $10,000 anyway.

You seem to believe that "sticker price" is the same as what you pay to walk out the door. That's never the case. Let's simply it. If your state sales tax is 5% and you buy something that costs $100 at a 5% discount, you'll end up paying right around $100. That doesn't mean that you didn't get the discount, it just means that the discount basically covered the tax.

In theory, if your grandpa didn't trade his vehicle, he'd have paid $10500 to walk out the door. Saying that they just fudge the numbers and make you pay the same price is ridiculous. I'm sure some dealers can screw some idiots doing that, but that's hardly the real world, nor a valid reason to argue against buying a newer or better vehicle. You don't have to buy something newer from a dealer anyway.

THAT's THE AIRBAG STORY. So don't try telling me "airbags don't give you whiplash or dont hurt you". She would of been better off without the airbags.

So her injuries are completely related to airbags rather than being t-boned? I seriously doubt your assessment here. If someone is sitting against their seat and get involved in a side impact collision, they're going to be subjected to far more lateral force (where the airbag isn't protecting them) than front to back force from the airbag coming out at them. You may think you're a lot smarter than the scientists that study this stuff, but I'll trust the people that actually study that over anecdotal and questionable opinions of some random internet posting.

and IF she didn't have the ABS making the car palsate she most likey could of prevented the wreck by stopping in time damn ABS didn't help matters made them worse.

Unlikely. If ABS was engaged, she would have had the brakes locked up and unlike with ABS, would have lacked control of the vehicle because sliding tires don't allow you to steer and don't slow as quickly as brakes being applied to rolling tires.

Can a non-ABS vehicle brake faster than an ABS equipped vehicle? Sure, but the driver is the key. Most drivers don't have the experience operating at their vehicle's limits and thus most drivers cannot stop better without ABS.

The accident caused over $10,000 in damages, The insurance company SPECIFICALLY said if the airbags DIDN'T deploy they would have fixed the car. They said the combination of the airbags costing $1500 a piece and the shattered windsheild from the airbags is the main reason they totalled it out.

Who cares? You have insurance. Would you really rather have a wreck repaired vehicle than a new vehicle? I'd much rather have a vehicle that sacrifices itself to protect me and my family than one that needs less repairs but is less safe.

People change the dash light colors all the time they also change the interior lights too. It's LIGHTS!

Most people don't change the color of their interior lights and dashes.

The mirror IS going to be replaced, the problem is FINDING one. This car has heated mirrors all the mirrors i can get locally or online are just power NOT heated.

I suppose you will tell me a non-matching mirror and door handles with "devalue" the car too?

It's clear that you do not have the ability to do it yourself, correctly. Take it to someone that can. I guarantee that any collision repair shop that you take it to can replace a 2001 Impala's mirror and door handles and match the color well enough to look 100% better than zip ties and painter's tape. These are functional issues with your car.

In my opinion vehicular priorities should be:
1. Safety systems, functional problems, routine maintenance
2. Cleanliness
3. Repairs of aesthetic blemishes
4. Aesthetic mods or upgrades / functional mods or upgrades

Basically, if your car needs any repairs or is dirty, you should take care of that first, before you do mods.

That is a 1998-2000 Daewoo Lanos not a 2001. And if you do a side-profile the Chevy Caviler, and pontiac sunfire of the same era they look almost identical

EDIT: MANY cars look like a Daewoo Lanos. Even some Honda civics of the era have ALMOST the exact same style headlights I have confused severeral of these Civics for a daewoo from a distance.

That's exactly what my point is. You can't argue that it's stylish and original while simultaneously arguing that it looks the same as a bunch of other boring cars. If you like the car, fine. Like it. Stop trying to argue 50 different outlandish reasons why it's better.

 

[lowendlinux]

Can a non-ABS vehicle brake faster than an ABS equipped vehicle? Sure, but the driver is the key. Most drivers don't have the experience operating at their vehicles limits and thus most drivers cannot stop better without ABS.

While I'm sure there is a test out there that proves that I've yet to see one.

 

[wct097]

I've always dug on the GTO. I get that the exterior design is a little "plain Jane" and I guess not really "worthy" of the GTO badge, but it's functional, and the interior (outstanding seats**) is terrific (Holden vs. GM interiors of the time was no contest).

An LSx powered coupe (with a vast aftermarket), that seats 4, well done interior, dressed up decently with a nice set of wheels for $30K-ish? Heck yeah.



** I'm a huge advocate of good seating, I think it really enhances the driving experience.

I really appreciate good performance and handling from relatively unassuming vehicles. I don't want a "look at me" vehicle, but I do appreciate performance. I'd take a GTO over a Corvette for that reason. That's one reason I like my M3. If you can get past the fact that it's a BMW, it isn't obvious to most people that it's much more than a standard 3 series. Much more subtle. Slight hood bulge. Slightly flared fenders. Four exhaust outlets. Etc.

Oh.... and ditto on the seats. Will never buy anything again without leather unless I plan on replacing the cloth with leather from the start.

 

[quagmire]

You want to know the only "modification" I made to my car? I ditched the Goodyear Eagle LS2 tires that came with my car at 7000 miles because they were a complete and utter ****** tires. It rained out? No matter how softly or smoothly I applied the accelerator, the tires spun out and traction control engaged. And they were completely useless in the snow.

I have Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Positions on my car now. Love the grip they provide.

 

[wct097]

While I'm sure there is a test out there that proves that I've yet to see one.

It's situational at best. People like Matthew hear a race car driver say that they turn traction control off or disable ABS because they can get better performance without it and think that everyone can stop faster without ABS. The truth is that most people don't have the experience dealing with loss of traction or reacting to a impending collision and thus are far better off with ABS than without.

When you throw reduced traction situations into the equation, ABS wins hands down. Stopping on ice, snow, grass clippings, wet grass, sand, etc....

 

[lowendlinux]

You want to know the only "modification" I made to my car? I ditched the Goodyear Eagle LS2 tires that came with my car at 7000 miles because they were a complete and utter ****** tires. It rained out? No matter how softly or smoothly I applied the accelerator, the tires spun out and traction control engaged. And they were completely useless in the snow.

I have Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Positions on my car now. Love the grip they provide.

I should have just done that but alas I can't leave anything alone. Teraflex, Banks, Warn, and a few others have gotten plenty of my money.

 

[D.T.]

While I'm sure there is a test out there that proves that I've yet to see one.

I've played around a few times at track and top speed events (where we had a number of cars, plenty of _safe_ space). Even with decent experience, it's hard to be consistent as the components change due to heat, wear (tires, brakes, etc.), and we're talking a focused run-stop test in a straight line that's not feeding the driver even close to the same amount of input as running laps.

Sure there were some outliers of great driver, controlled situation where the non-ABS car (either OEM or temp disabled) was a little better, but most of the time, and I'd say all of the time on the street, I'd place my bet on the ABS car.

I really appreciate good performance and handling from relatively unassuming vehicles. I don't want a "look at me" vehicle, but I do appreciate performance. I'd take a GTO over a Corvette for that reason. That's one reason I like my M3. If you can get past the fact that it's a BMW, it isn't obvious to most people that it's much more than a standard 3 series. Much more subtle. Slight hood bulge. Slightly flared fenders. Four exhaust outlets. Etc.

Oh.... and ditto on the seats. Will never buy anything again without leather unless I plan on replacing the cloth with leather from the start.

Yeah, the "sleeper" type cars can be a ton of fun. I also like that it's only enthusiasts that will notice an M vs. a regular 3-series.

Several years back I was driving on - umm, a closed private test road in Mexico - this GTO pulls up with pretty clear intent, I was in the Z06, my wife was like "is this guy for real?" not realizing what it was. From a 25-30MPH roll on he pulled about 3-4 car lengths. Funny enough, it was easy to track does his report of this in a "kill" section on a GTO board

The post made me laugh: "This older guy {really?} and some hot blonde chick {score!!} ... X car lengths ... he seemed very cool".

Come to find out he was running a full exhaust (headers back, it sounded terrific), and a moderately aggressive bump stick, gears, and even had a little funny gas (though didn't use it). I suspect there would've been quite a few people driving performance cars that would still be scratching their heads.

Seats. My post was more in the context of performance oriented rides, but there's no contest in my mind. I've even swapped seats in the same car from mediocre at best to really hardcore seats and it gave the car a whole new life!

 

[MatthewLTL]

Matthew,
You seem to have a really random and illogical way of reasoning that I just don't understand or follow.



You seem to believe that "sticker price" is the same as what you pay to walk out the door. That's never the case. Let's simply it. If your state sales tax is 5% and you buy something that costs $100 at a 5% discount, you'll end up paying right around $100. That doesn't mean that you didn't get the discount, it just means that the discount basically covered the tax.

In theory, if your grandpa didn't trade his vehicle, he'd have paid $10500 to walk out the door. Saying that they just fudge the numbers and make you pay the same price is ridiculous. I'm sure some dealers can screw some idiots doing that, but that's hardly the real world, nor a valid reason to argue against buying a newer or better vehicle. You don't have to buy something newer from a dealer anyway.



So her injuries are completely related to airbags rather than being t-boned? I seriously doubt your assessment here. If someone is sitting against their seat and get involved in a side impact collision, they're going to be subjected to far more lateral force (where the airbag isn't protecting them) than front to back force from the airbag coming out at them. You may think you're a lot smarter than the scientists that study this stuff, but I'll trust the people that actually study that over anecdotal and questionable opinions of some random internet posting.



Unlikely. If ABS was engaged, she would have had the brakes locked up and unlike with ABS, would have lacked control of the vehicle because sliding tires don't allow you to steer and don't slow as quickly as brakes being applied to rolling tires.

Can a non-ABS vehicle brake faster than an ABS equipped vehicle? Sure, but the driver is the key. Most drivers don't have the experience operating at their vehicle's limits and thus most drivers cannot stop better without ABS.



Who cares? You have insurance. Would you really rather have a wreck repaired vehicle than a new vehicle? I'd much rather have a vehicle that sacrifices itself to protect me and my family than one that needs less repairs but is less safe.



Most people don't change the color of their interior lights and dashes.



It's clear that you do not have the ability to do it yourself, correctly. Take it to someone that can. I guarantee that any collision repair shop that you take it to can replace a 2001 Impala's mirror and door handles and match the color well enough to look 100% better than zip ties and painter's tape. These are functional issues with your car.

In my opinion vehicular priorities should be:
1. Safety systems, functional problems, routine maintenance
2. Cleanliness
3. Repairs of aesthetic blemishes
4. Aesthetic mods or upgrades / functional mods or upgrades

Basically, if your car needs any repairs or is dirty, you should take care of that first, before you do mods.



That's exactly what my point is. You can't argue that it's stylish and original while simultaneously arguing that it looks the same as a bunch of other boring cars. If you like the car, fine. Like it. Stop trying to argue 50 different outlandish reasons why it's better.

1. After all said and done he saved like $100... pretty meaningless with a $10,000 price tag, even $500 is rather meaningless.
2. Yes. Yes it is. Because the force of the bags banging her around like a rag doll was MUCH more severe than the force of the impact.
3. NOT unlikely at all, My mom while working after getting her new (then) Daewoo after this wreck, had a situation on the highway where 60+ MPH traffic had to screach to a hault in a split second because of a major wreck on the highway. Her and everyone else did a chain-reaction squeal of the tires (she had to stop THAT hard) if she had ABS she'd of slid right into the car in front of her. I have driven cars with ABS as well as mine with no ABS. I have had to do sudden slam-on-the-brakes stops in both ABS equipped and no ABS cars. Mine with no ABS ALWAYS stopped faster and quicker.
4. You make a point IF that were even true in this case. It hurt her more than it protected her!
5. The mirror? I have perfect ability to do that myself, Its removing 3 bolts and a 6 pin plug. The mirror hasn't been replaced yet not because I CAN'T do it, but because I have not found the right mirror! I need one that is heated AND Powered because that is what the car came with, ALL I can find is POWER-non heated. As far as the door handles, I probably COULD do those, but It's probably more work than it's worth and I will most likey have a mechanic do it when it goes in to get the starting issue fixed. I am also CAPABLE of doing most of the car's repairs myself, having the time and patience is another thing.
5. You people on this forum are spending more time telling me my car is a piece of **** more than I am telling you it is better. Do explain something: How is it a car that is a complete pile of **** can go 15 years and NEVER any exhaust work? It's never needed a muffler (whereas ALL cars before it needed a new muffler or SOME kind of exhaust every 3 years)
Other than brake work AND 2 thermostats (and oil changes of course) this car has been rock solid. What little has been done with this car is are "regular" maintenance that EVERY car needs and goes though. Piece of ****? I think not.

 

[D.T.]

3. NOT unlikely at all, My mom while working after getting her new (then) Daewoo after this wreck, had a situation on the highway where 60+ MPH traffic had to screach to a hault in a split second because of a major wreck on the highway. Her and everyone else did a chain-reaction squeal of the tires (she had to stop THAT hard) if she had ABS she'd of slid right into the car in front of her. I have driven cars with ABS as well as mine with no ABS. I have had to do sudden slam-on-the-brakes stops in both ABS equipped and no ABS cars. Mine with no ABS ALWAYS stopped faster and quicker.

I'm sorry, but it's absurd to suggest you or your Mom made a sudden, unprepared, emergency stop, using some kind of amazing threshold braking technique, and all the other modern, ABS powered cars were locking up the tires and sliding (which BTW, is NOT how ABS works).

 

[bunnspecial]

I'm sorry, but it's absurd to suggest you or your Mom made a sudden, unprepared, emergency stop, using some kind of amazing threshold braking technique, and all the other modern, ABS powered cars were locking up the tires and sliding (which BTW, is NOT how ABS works).

The problem with ABS is often operator error. Many people feel the pedal "pulsing" and instinctively let up on it. The correct reaction when the pedal vibrates is to either keep your foot in the same place or press harder.

Take a basic physics course and you'll learn that the coefficent of static friction is always higher than the coefficient of sliding friction. ABS maintains the wheels at the threshold of locking up without actually locking up, and it calculates it hundreds of times a second. A rolling wheel can be most closely modeled as being under static friction, while a "squealing" tire is being stopped by sliding friction. The fact is that a rolling tire will stop you faster every time. Not only that, but it allows you to maintain control of the car-something that you lose when your tires are sliding.

As for T/C, the only time I ever turn it off is in very limited situations where I'm stuck in the snow and someone is helping me push to get out. Being able to spin the wheels can help "dig out" and also gives the person(or people) pushing some assistance. Oh, and when driving with the "donut", which I don't even do anymore since I got rid of that piece of crap for a full size spare mounted on a factory rim. With a RWD car especially, I can't tell you how many times it's saved me from fishtailing or other stuff(potentially dangerous in traffic) on a wet road. Granted, some of them would have been my fault for being a bit too aggressive on my throttle "tip in" but others would have been unavoidable.

BTW, as for the 86 Grand Marquis that wouldn't start in the cold-it's called a carburetor. Almost all carburated cars have cold weather issues.

 

[MatthewLTL]

Oh.... and ditto on the seats. Will never buy anything again without leather unless I plan on replacing the cloth with leather from the start.

the only downfall to leather is that it burns your ass in the summer and is like sitting on a bag of ice in winter.

No matter how softly or smoothly I applied the accelerator, the tires spun out and traction control engaged. And they were completely useless in the snow.

I have Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Positions on my car now. Love the grip they provide.

You sure it's the tires and not your foot? people never drive for weather conditions, It can bee pissing down rain, can't even see a foot in front of you and people still do 50 in a 40.

It's situational at best. People like Matthew hear a race car driver say that they turn traction control off or disable ABS because they can get better performance without it and think that everyone can stop faster without ABS. The truth is that most people don't have the experience dealing with loss of traction or reacting to a impending collision and thus are far better off with ABS than without.

When you throw reduced traction situations into the equation, ABS wins hands down. Stopping on ice, snow, grass clippings, wet grass, sand, etc....

I actually never heard that being said.... I said that out of experence. It's not that ***** hard to pay attention! I have never been in a accident NOT because I am a percision driver BUT because I PAY ATTENTION TO MY SURROUNDINGS! I also happen to KNOW my car and happen to know it handles like **** in winter THEREFORE I drive accordingly.

I'm sorry, but it's absurd to suggest you or your Mom made a sudden, unprepared, emergency stop, using some kind of amazing threshold braking technique, and all the other modern, ABS powered cars were locking up the tires and sliding (which BTW, is NOT how ABS works).

ABS don't "Lock up" the brakes it reduces their effetiveness. tell me when you are about to crash what do you do? Stand on the brakes or pump them? Which would stop you faster? STANDING ON THEM! ABS is just computer-controlled brake pumping.

 

[D.T.]

The problem with ABS is often operator error. Many people feel the pedal "pulsing" and instinctively let up on it. The correct reaction when the pedal vibrates is to either keep your foot in the same place or press harder.

Take a basic physics course and you'll learn that the coefficent of static friction is always higher than the coefficient of sliding friction. ABS maintains the wheels at the threshold of locking up without actually locking up, and it calculates it hundreds of times a second. A rolling wheel can be most closely modeled as being under static friction, while a "squealing" tire is being stopped by sliding friction. The fact is that a rolling tire will stop you faster every time. Not only that, but it allows you to maintain control of the car-something that you lose when your tires are sliding.

Yeah, I agree about a driver possibly reacting inappropriately due to the ABS pulse/feedback.

See my post above about my actual testing of non vs. ABS in a closed environment. I've been road racing for about 15 years, I understand quite a bit about braking dynamics, especially at the limit as is experienced off public roads (I've even installed brake bias valves to manually dial in aftermarket brake systems)

Let's also say, I've had a decent amount of academic exposure to physics