In terms of truck designs, they’re in a difficult position because of the whole ‘box like’ appearance these design engineers have to work with ‘Futuristic’, therefore they’re designing around major grills and weird accent pieces. I tried to cut slack, because it’s easy to scrutinize, it’s all about influencing the buyer to see something ‘different’. Anyways, I think when somebody’s purchasing a truck, function-over-form, unless somebody is completely set on design Only.
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The Car Thread ... !
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You know, I haven't been much of a proponent of Tesla in the past (see my posting history in this very thread), but my thinking has absolutely changed over the past 12 months or so. Part of that has been from doing a little "trip research" using a couple of tools (apps like A Better Route Planner).
We have a few "regular" destinations, and using a Model 3 Performance (now using the '21 model improved stats), here's some interesting trip/duration/charging/cost ("fueling") stats:
Our place down in The Keys, ~400 miles, one stop for 29 minutes, $14 cost
A location in Atlanta I used to frequently visit, again, ~400 miles / one 29 minute charge stop, interestingly, only $8 (assuming FL vs. GA charging/taxes/etc.)
Universal Studios, we (pre-Covid) did this 3-4 times a year, ~130 miles, no charge, free, valet rotated charging at resorts (could actually just drive back without any charging)
Wife's Dad's house, outside Pittsburgh, ~900 miles, we do one full night sleepover - it's one of two nice places, depending on exact day one travel time, usually about 60% into the trip, full charging, interval charging, ~1h total, $21 cost
Savannah, GA, historic district, one of our visit-once-a-year trips, ~180 miles, one way no charge, however, if I do a round trip (make Savannah a waypoint, between home and home) it's a stop going for 7 minutes, and a stop returning for 10 minutes, so 17 minutes total on a 360 mile round trip (that assumes no charging onsite, we have a couple of houses we rent, one has easy power access).
Of course, availability of a charger (use / maintenance), etc., is a real YMMV, but it's clearly not what the poster you quoted suggested. I'm not currently an owner, just seriously considering it
Once you get into the 400mi range (realistically less than that when running HVAC, driving above 60mph, etc) I think things get a lot more practical. That's a decent day trip without having to recharge- or at least having to spend significant time doing so. That said, you're also paying a fair bit of money to achieve that range ($80,000 base for Model S LR w/413mi), but I expect that cost will drop in the future. The majority of people aren't driving enough in a day so often to make an EV with 200 or 300 miles of range that impractical, but again there is a bit of a cost premium.
Tesla's apparent build quality and quality of service is still too questionable to make me consider buying one anytime soon- too many horror stories of cars being delivered with glaring defects and slow or difficult to deal with service departments. For all the claims of EV's being so much more reliable, that doesn't seem to be the case either with Tesla and it's not just the gimmicks like pop out door handles and gull wing doors- I know a few people who have experienced major drivetrain failures (i.e. drive motors on new, lower mileage cars). There's many appealing competitors, but the few interesting options are limited by battery range and charging by infrastructure.
All of this is sure to change in the coming years of course, but it is interesting to see how quickly this technology is advancing.
There's barely any difference in the front bumpers from the '20 to the '21, so not sure what you mean (stance?). In fact, that's kind of a point of contention in owner's groups (that front end specifically, overall lack of major design changes in general ...)
If I had the ability to charge at home, I would be seriously looking at a Tesla 3 or Model Y as well. No other EV comes close right now to what Tesla is doing. The Bolt is boring, I won't even look at the Nissan. The Mach E is decent though ignoring the staining of the Mustang brand.
The interior is subtle, but somehow seems to elevate it from “cheap and cheerful” to “thoughtful design” for me.
With regards to the exterior; no more chrome edges, Yay. That alone makes it worth while. That chrome made it look old man to me, and looked so out of place for this kind of a car.
Still think it needs further redesign though, just doesn’t look and feel like the class of car the purchase price suggests it is.
That’s an interesting point. What will electric car owners do when there isn’t a garage or drive at home?
parts of the UK; there are weather patterns where urban smog ?dosnt accumilate the bet is you more diesal use there. For urban areas where weahter patterns tend to trap pollutants there is some talk about restricting both residential and commercial natural gas hook ups. Diesal will be the first to go.
i read freight companies FedEX, UPS would like to move to all electric but battery production is unpredictable.
the Tesla model 3, a luxury EV, curb weight is 2 ton. Battery replacement could be expen$ive. Not a lot of DIY a owner can do on a tesla and leasing likely the best option. I live in a urban area but a single family house. I could install roof solar to charge the car battries. If battery access is good, say under the rear seats, i could quick swap a set of depleted for charged battries. Keep a fresh set always charging. If the EV used motor in the hub tech the parts count would be very low, easy to maintain and repair.
i read freight companies FedEX, UPS would like to move to all electric but battery production is unpredictable.
the Tesla model 3, a luxury EV, curb weight is 2 ton. Battery replacement could be expen$ive. Not a lot of DIY a owner can do on a tesla and leasing likely the best option. I live in a urban area but a single family house. I could install roof solar to charge the car battries. If battery access is good, say under the rear seats, i could quick swap a set of depleted for charged battries. Keep a fresh set always charging. If the EV used motor in the hub tech the parts count would be very low, easy to maintain and repair.
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And of course if we all switched to EV in the U.K. the national grid wouldn’t cope. They’d have to fire up all the coal power stations again!
You can't just swap an EV battery like the batteries in your remote. And you definitely can't have a spare one charging while the other is in use. That's not possible now and most likely won't be possible for the foreseeable future, if ever.
Hen-egg-problem.
No refill stations, no cars. No cars, no refill stations.
Also, hydrogen is a nightmare to work with and get safe enough for the random guy and gal to handle it on a daily basis.
Hydrogen fuel cells are complex. I think at one time Hona wanted to go that way.
it consistantly dry / sunny here. Great for solar. No room for error tho, if things go west the garage burns down. Maybe for a micro EV. I just dont see any vehicles i would want to buy
To guys with Tesla’s other EVs find a cable the plugs into your car and other plugs into the clothes dryer port over night to top off at a family home!
To me, right now and for me, a plug-in hybrid would be a sweet spot.
~50 miles is more than enough for a day of running around town. Even though I don't physically go to work much these days(I went last week for the first time since November)-and for that matter some might argue I don't mentally go to work either-but 50 miles gets me there and I can charge while there. Still, though, I wouldn't have to worry about watching the mileage if I went past there, or if something dropped it. PHEVs tend to be as efficient as their pure hybrid equivalents.
I could live with a 400 mile range on an EV, since, as mentioned above, that's a decent day's driving. That gets me to my parents house in Kentucky with room to spare, or to some other destinations my wife and I go. A lot of hotels and places like that have chargers now.
If going a good ways-say driving from here to Florida or North Carolina-which is a not uncommon thing-8 hours of driving in a day might be low(we often do 10, or depending on where we're going might stretch it to 12 if it means getting there in a day). In particular if a destination is say 8-10 hours away, and if charging stops over the course of the trip add up to 2-3 hours and end up needing a second day, a hotel stay kills a lot of the cost saving. I know that's a fringe case, though, and it's an infrequent enough thing(maybe once a year at most) that renting for the trip wouldn't be the end of the world. Plenty of people I know who only have ICE vehicles rent for long trips anyway so they don't rack up 2K miles in one trip.
If I do buy an EV, I'm going to wait for a real car maker to have a compelling product. I'm not completely anti-EV in general(despite what my posting history might indicate) but I am not in any way a fan of the most prominent maker of EVs. I will acknowledge that it's hard to argue against their current EV technology being the best around. That's where it ends for me. Aside from being completely turned off by the rabid fan-base and the seeming lack of acknowledgement that any other vehicle is worthy of consideration, I have a few other concerns. FOr one, the styling is bland and not to my taste. For another, I like the lack of dealerships in theory, since I hate the haggling process and would rather just say "I want the car, and you'll get paid for it the way I choose"(the last couple of times I've bought on financing, I went in pre-approved from my regular bank and was effectively able to handle it as a cash purchase as the dealership was concerned). With that said, with dealerships plentiful for the major brands, you also have ready access to service when something goes wrong, and it will go wrong no matter who makes the car. Fundamentally, too, an EV is still a car, and there's a lot more than just the powertrain that makes the car. Other companies have had 100+ years to practice it. And yes, I'm heavily biased. The preceeding paragraph is my opinion, but I do not wish to ever own a product from that brand.
~50 miles is more than enough for a day of running around town. Even though I don't physically go to work much these days(I went last week for the first time since November)-and for that matter some might argue I don't mentally go to work either
-but 50 miles gets me there and I can charge while there. Still, though, I wouldn't have to worry about watching the mileage if I went past there, or if something dropped it. PHEVs tend to be as efficient as their pure hybrid equivalents.I could live with a 400 mile range on an EV, since, as mentioned above, that's a decent day's driving. That gets me to my parents house in Kentucky with room to spare, or to some other destinations my wife and I go. A lot of hotels and places like that have chargers now.
If going a good ways-say driving from here to Florida or North Carolina-which is a not uncommon thing-8 hours of driving in a day might be low(we often do 10, or depending on where we're going might stretch it to 12 if it means getting there in a day). In particular if a destination is say 8-10 hours away, and if charging stops over the course of the trip add up to 2-3 hours and end up needing a second day, a hotel stay kills a lot of the cost saving. I know that's a fringe case, though, and it's an infrequent enough thing(maybe once a year at most) that renting for the trip wouldn't be the end of the world. Plenty of people I know who only have ICE vehicles rent for long trips anyway so they don't rack up 2K miles in one trip.
If I do buy an EV, I'm going to wait for a real car maker to have a compelling product. I'm not completely anti-EV in general(despite what my posting history might indicate) but I am not in any way a fan of the most prominent maker of EVs. I will acknowledge that it's hard to argue against their current EV technology being the best around. That's where it ends for me. Aside from being completely turned off by the rabid fan-base and the seeming lack of acknowledgement that any other vehicle is worthy of consideration, I have a few other concerns. FOr one, the styling is bland and not to my taste. For another, I like the lack of dealerships in theory, since I hate the haggling process and would rather just say "I want the car, and you'll get paid for it the way I choose"(the last couple of times I've bought on financing, I went in pre-approved from my regular bank and was effectively able to handle it as a cash purchase as the dealership was concerned). With that said, with dealerships plentiful for the major brands, you also have ready access to service when something goes wrong, and it will go wrong no matter who makes the car. Fundamentally, too, an EV is still a car, and there's a lot more than just the powertrain that makes the car. Other companies have had 100+ years to practice it. And yes, I'm heavily biased. The preceeding paragraph is my opinion, but I do not wish to ever own a product from that brand.
Well said. For me (nota bene: personal opinion), especially fit and finish as well as materials selection is not what I'm used to — even more so factoring in the price point.To me, right now and for me, a plug-in hybrid would be a sweet spot.
~50 miles is more than enough for a day of running around town. Even though I don't physically go to work much these days(I went last week for the first time since November)-and for that matter some might argue I don't mentally go to work either
I could live with a 400 mile range on an EV, since, as mentioned above, that's a decent day's driving. That gets me to my parents house in Kentucky with room to spare, or to some other destinations my wife and I go. A lot of hotels and places like that have chargers now.
If going a good ways-say driving from here to Florida or North Carolina-which is a not uncommon thing-8 hours of driving in a day might be low(we often do 10, or depending on where we're going might stretch it to 12 if it means getting there in a day). In particular if a destination is say 8-10 hours away, and if charging stops over the course of the trip add up to 2-3 hours and end up needing a second day, a hotel stay kills a lot of the cost saving. I know that's a fringe case, though, and it's an infrequent enough thing(maybe once a year at most) that renting for the trip wouldn't be the end of the world. Plenty of people I know who only have ICE vehicles rent for long trips anyway so they don't rack up 2K miles in one trip.
If I do buy an EV, I'm going to wait for a real car maker to have a compelling product. I'm not completely anti-EV in general(despite what my posting history might indicate) but I am not in any way a fan of the most prominent maker of EVs. I will acknowledge that it's hard to argue against their current EV technology being the best around. That's where it ends for me. Aside from being completely turned off by the rabid fan-base and the seeming lack of acknowledgement that any other vehicle is worthy of consideration, I have a few other concerns. FOr one, the styling is bland and not to my taste. For another, I like the lack of dealerships in theory, since I hate the haggling process and would rather just say "I want the car, and you'll get paid for it the way I choose"(the last couple of times I've bought on financing, I went in pre-approved from my regular bank and was effectively able to handle it as a cash purchase as the dealership was concerned). With that said, with dealerships plentiful for the major brands, you also have ready access to service when something goes wrong, and it will go wrong no matter who makes the car. Fundamentally, too, an EV is still a car, and there's a lot more than just the powertrain that makes the car. Other companies have had 100+ years to practice it. And yes, I'm heavily biased. The preceeding paragraph is my opinion, but I do not wish to ever own a product from that brand.
Charge on the street? I mean if the Netherlands can manage charging point on the canals of Amsterdam then the UK question how people would charge with no garage of drive seems a bit like looking for reasons not to.
Besides why would everyone need to charge at home. Plenty of opportunities to charge elsewhere.
Though saying that; I’m all in favour that if a house doesn’t have off-road parking then they shouldn’t be allow a car of their own ? Would make our roads a lot tidier.
That is simply not true. The grid doesn’t work like that anyway. It’s not like switching on the kettle in the break of Britain’s Got Talent ?
In Amsterdam cars are massively outnumbered by bikes. It’s a very different country. In places with high rise residential buildings it’s hard for everyone to charge on the street.
To me, right now and for me, a plug-in hybrid would be a sweet spot.
~50 miles is more than enough for a day of running around town. Even though I don't physically go to work much these days(I went last week for the first time since November)-and for that matter some might argue I don't mentally go to work either
I could live with a 400 mile range on an EV, since, as mentioned above, that's a decent day's driving. That gets me to my parents house in Kentucky with room to spare, or to some other destinations my wife and I go. A lot of hotels and places like that have chargers now.
If going a good ways-say driving from here to Florida or North Carolina-which is a not uncommon thing-8 hours of driving in a day might be low(we often do 10, or depending on where we're going might stretch it to 12 if it means getting there in a day). In particular if a destination is say 8-10 hours away, and if charging stops over the course of the trip add up to 2-3 hours and end up needing a second day, a hotel stay kills a lot of the cost saving. I know that's a fringe case, though, and it's an infrequent enough thing(maybe once a year at most) that renting for the trip wouldn't be the end of the world. Plenty of people I know who only have ICE vehicles rent for long trips anyway so they don't rack up 2K miles in one trip.
If I do buy an EV, I'm going to wait for a real car maker to have a compelling product. I'm not completely anti-EV in general(despite what my posting history might indicate) but I am not in any way a fan of the most prominent maker of EVs. I will acknowledge that it's hard to argue against their current EV technology being the best around. That's where it ends for me. Aside from being completely turned off by the rabid fan-base and the seeming lack of acknowledgement that any other vehicle is worthy of consideration, I have a few other concerns. FOr one, the styling is bland and not to my taste. For another, I like the lack of dealerships in theory, since I hate the haggling process and would rather just say "I want the car, and you'll get paid for it the way I choose"(the last couple of times I've bought on financing, I went in pre-approved from my regular bank and was effectively able to handle it as a cash purchase as the dealership was concerned). With that said, with dealerships plentiful for the major brands, you also have ready access to service when something goes wrong, and it will go wrong no matter who makes the car. Fundamentally, too, an EV is still a car, and there's a lot more than just the powertrain that makes the car. Other companies have had 100+ years to practice it. And yes, I'm heavily biased. The preceeding paragraph is my opinion, but I do not wish to ever own a product from that brand.
I agree with the Tesla fit and finish not suitable for the price point. Although the Plaid + seems to be getting there now. One huge advantage they have is the chargers and charging infrastructure. I think that shouldn’t be forgotten in this context as it considerably change the experience. But yes, from what I read and the people that I know; very few seem to have had a vehicle from that price point before Tesla. A lot of the people I know seem to be getting it on a finance deal, and are company directors where they can then also deduct the lease payments before tax from profits, and have a very limited personal tax liability. It effectively becomes an economic decision and an accountants dream where some can drive a very expensive car almost free of charge due to the grants available. I can’t help but think that if those grants weren’t available (and ahem you can I are paying for that!!!) whether they would be such a success at the price point offered. It’s clever and smart I give that to them.
There is a lot more competition now; with models from Porsche, Mercedes, Audi and Jaguar. Nice cars, but the experience without charging infrastructure just won’t be the same. And at the power end where I guess that charging infrastructure matters less as who would want a long journey in those little cars like Renault, Nissan, BMW, Vauxhall/Opel/GM, MG and Mini offer. But potentially great cars if all you do is small journeys and don’t care about the low rent interiors and don’t mind paying nearly double compared to the petrol version ?
I get your point. But there isn’t enough capacity for everyone in London say to own an EV. They simply don’t have enough power without updating the substations and cables. Especially for fast chargers.
Why would they need to charge on the street? They don’t today. The London flat I had had underground parking, and valet parking. The concierge team can charge the cars and move them around as they do today.
We are still looking at this “problem” in the wrong way. Why does everyone in London need to have their own car? A town with great public transport links and lots of Uber drivers.
I’m normally for a small government with as little as possible interference. But this is where brave government policy is required. It can be really simple; unless you have off-road parking, you need a permit to park. No more than one permit per residential address. And yes you have to pay for the administration of the permits.
Then expand on it; any new car not already on order with immediate effect has to be an ev. Any already registered vehicle, pre-owned, got to be Euro 6 diesel compliant or Euro 4 petrol. And from three years from now any purchased pre registered vehicle also has to be Ev only.
just need to be brave, people will adapt.