The Car Thread ... !

[quagmire]

Technology in cars is great when it’s designed well. But touch screens in cars are not great. Physical buttons are safer.
But a car they make in 2022 where you can’t use Apple CarPlay or Android Auto sounds very behind the times.

Carplay isn't needed if the car's own system is well developed.

Not saying I wouldn't love an Apple Music app on my Model 3, but I do not miss Carplay.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Carplay isn't needed if the car's own system is well developed.

Not saying I wouldn't love an Apple Music app on my Model 3, but I do not miss Carplay.

Personally I'd disagree. Its always better to have an address locked into your iPhone before you get into the car. Makes for a quicker get away. And Apple Music would also be a must for me. Especially for such a 'premium' car.

 

[quagmire]

Personally I'd disagree. Its always better to have an address locked into your iPhone before you get into the car. Makes for a quicker get away. And Apple Music would also be a must for me. Especially for such a 'premium' car.

Can forward it to the Tesla.....

 

[JohnR]

Personally I'd disagree. Its always better to have an address locked into your iPhone before you get into the car. Makes for a quicker get away. And Apple Music would also be a must for me. Especially for such a 'premium' car.

Technology in cars is great when it’s designed well. But touch screens in cars are not great. Physical buttons are safer.
But a car they make in 2022 where you can’t use Apple CarPlay or Android Auto sounds very behind the times.

I do find it rather humorous. A screen to buy so you can use modern connectivity in a Tesla. They really did make a lemon.
Great battery life. Poor everything else.

For someone who doesn't own one, you sure do think you know a lot about them. Opinions are like *holes, everyone has one, doesn't mean that yours is better than anyone else's. 🙂 Test driving one is not a full study. Hearing from actual owners who have put miles behind the wheel is where you get real information. You're biased against Tesla, so there's that.

Please provide a detailed study that shows physical buttons are safter than touch screens. And I'm not talking about something some kid wrote up, but an actual study. To say buttons are safer is so....behind the times. ;-) How did you ever get used to the iPhone??
Meanwhile, for those afraid of touchscreens such as yourself, there's always voice commands, which work in Teslas.

CarPlay/Android auto are not needed. The radio is very well designed and has everything I want...and I can always stream Apple Music from my phone if I wanted. Apple would want another subscription if they offered it...why would I pay more when I can just stream it?

 

[Nütztjanix]

Physical buttons are better suited to a car — independent from manufacturer. You can use them blindly, without looking at where to place your finger. They work always, whether you wear gloves or have sweaty fingers.
Replacing physical buttons with touch has been a great step back even for cars I deal frequently with (Golf VIII vs. Golf VII for example).

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

For someone who doesn't own one, you sure do think you know a lot about them. Opinions are like *holes, everyone has one, doesn't mean that yours is better than anyone else's. 🙂 Test driving one is not a full study. Hearing from actual owners who have put miles behind the wheel is where you get real information. You're biased against Tesla, so there's that.

Please provide a detailed study that shows physical buttons are safter than touch screens. And I'm not talking about something some kid wrote up, but an actual study. To say buttons are safer is so....behind the times. ;-) How did you ever get used to the iPhone??
Meanwhile, for those afraid of touchscreens such as yourself, there's always voice commands, which work in Teslas.

CarPlay/Android auto are not needed. The radio is very well designed and has everything I want...and I can always stream Apple Music from my phone if I wanted. Apple would want another subscription if they offered it...why would I pay more when I can just stream it?

No need to be so condescending and confrontational about this. He has his opinion and you have yours. I don’t particularly like Tesla’s either and I’ve never owned one, can’t afford one at the prices they are in the UK. That’s my opinion and if anyone disagrees with it then tough, that’s their problem. If we all liked the same cars then the roads wouldn’t half be boring. Apple CarPlay is a requirement for me going forward when buying our car, and if it doesn’t have it then that car is off the list.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Physical buttons are better suited to a car — independent from manufacturer. You can use them blindly, without looking at where to place your finger. They work always, whether you wear gloves or have sweaty fingers.
Replacing physical buttons with touch has been a great step back even for cars I deal frequently with (Golf VIII vs. Golf VII for example).

Our car has a touch and to adjust the AC and heater etc it’s all on there. It’s so dangerous at times trying to navigate through menus to get to simple controls. Physical buttons will never have a substitute IMO.

 

[44267547]

Physical controls have been reliable, however; it’s evident that manufacturers are moving away from them, especially here in North America. Rather it be touched capacitive [or] touch-screen, it’s just the reality we’re living in now.

Is there a learning curve associated without physical buttons? Yes. Like anything though, you adjust to a degree, but you never really fully have that control with a touchscreen. From my perspective, I don’t see consumers passing on a vehicle they like just because ‘It doesn’t have physical push buttons’. It’s akin to the transition when Apple migrated away from touch ID into Face ID, the argument was made in various threads that ‘touch ID is better’ and others have said that they prefer face ID. It just goes to show you, consumers adapt and it’s highly unlikely they won’t upgrade just because it doesn’t have physical push buttons.

However, like John said above, I do use the voice assistant quite often as a mitigation from taking my eyes off the road where I can, which I find is very reliable and really helps if the car has adequate sound deadening.

In terms of safely navigating using a touchscreen, will never take precedent over safety on the road regardless of the endless ‘push button dispute.’ Leave the controls alone if you’re not comfortable doing so and keep your attention where the priority is.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

In the UK just tapping the screen on a mobile phone gets you 6 points on your license and a £200 fine, yet I can spend 30 seconds navigating through several menus and swerving all over the road trying to turn the fan up on my cars touchscreen . It’s against the law to even tap the screen on your phone once while stationary at traffic lights as of last month too, so the move to touchscreens in cars is bizarre for our market.

 

[44267547]

Yes, Laws vary here, especially from state-to-state, it’s not consistent through state statutes.

It would have to be proven without a doubt that you were distracted manipulating a smart phone or touchscreen interface while driving if an accident was caused due to your own negligence with inattentive driving.

Common sense will never prevail for some people, but like I said before, if someone has a problem being distracted from a touchscreen or anything in that nature, then leave the controls alone until you’re safely parked. It’s a really basic concept, but it’s a massive problem here in North America that results in a lot of vehicle accidents, which totally could be avoided.

Physical controls are much easier to toggle without taking your eyes off the road through repeated motor function, but it’s one of the transitions that manufacturers are moving away from, because it’s a ‘cleaner, aesthetic look’. Tesla would be an example of that.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Yes, Laws vary here, especially from state-to-state, it’s not consistent through state statutes.

It would have to be proven without a doubt that you were distracted manipulating a smart phone or touchscreen interface while driving if an accident was caused due to your own negligence with inattentive driving.

Common sense will never prevail for some people, but like I said before, if someone has a problem being distracted from a touchscreen or anything in that nature, then leave the controls alone until you’re safely parked. It’s a really basic concept, but it’s a massive problem here in North America that results in a lot of vehicle accidents, which totally could be avoided.

Physical controls are much easier to toggle without taking your eyes off the road through repeated motor function, but it’s one of the transitions that manufacturers are moving away from, because it’s a ‘cleaner, aesthetic look’. Tesla would be an example of that.

I definitely agree with minimising the need to touch certain controls whilst driving as any distraction is dangerous. Sometimes though it’s hard not to have to interact with something whilst moving and the more complicated the process, the more distraction to the driver.

 

[ericwn]

Our car has a touch and to adjust the AC and heater etc it’s all on there. It’s so dangerous at times trying to navigate through menus to get to simple controls. Physical buttons will never have a substitute IMO.

Same thoughts here. Dedicated buttons definitely preferred.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

The touch screen obsession is a sort of fad. It looks more futuristic and upscale and helps sell cars. Nevertheless, I think they have a genuine place in auto design and are here to stay.

A parallel event happened many years ago now with the introduction of 'glass' cockpits in aircraft - with electronic displays and touch screens replacing analog gauges and physical knobs and buttons. These 'glass' cockpits still include many analog gauges and buttons today though, partially for redundancy but also because some controls just need to be a simple physical control - either because you can feel it and use it accurately even in the dark and don't have to fart around with menus, or because it provides some kind of useful feedback.

So one does not have to be pro/anti when it comes to buttons vs touchscreens. In fact, agnosticism is the only reasonable position. Both types of controls are useful and have their place in a vehicle.

With that being said, my opinion is that auto manufacturers have yet create touchscreen controls that beat physical buttons and dials when it comes to HVAC controls and input selection for the car stereo. They are much faster than a touch screen and I can operate them without even looking. Also, speaking as a driver in a place with extreme winters, I prefer a physical button for disabling traction control. When you get stuck in snow and have to rock it out, having to faff about with menus is aggravating. These issues might be solved by installing dedicated touchscreen displays where these controls were always visible and usable, not buried behind menus (which is more like how the 'glass' cockpit in an airplane is designed)

 

[ericgtr12]

Personally I'd disagree. Its always better to have an address locked into your iPhone before you get into the car. Makes for a quicker get away. And Apple Music would also be a must for me. Especially for such a 'premium' car.

I send addresses to my car all the time, you can highlight it from any app and tap send to car, better than any car I've ever used in the past.

As for CarPlay, I do miss it but it's not a dealbreaker. It's not that the technology isn't there, it's that Elon Musk doesn't want to use Apple software in his car and unfortunately is the main reason we see cross-platform incompatibility everywhere, not just Tesla.

 

[Nütztjanix]

The touch screen obsession is a sort of fad. It looks more futuristic and upscale and helps sell cars. Nevertheless, I think they have a genuine place in auto design and are here to stay.

A parallel event happened many years ago now with the introduction of 'glass' cockpits in aircraft - with electronic displays and touch screens replacing analog gauges and physical knobs and buttons. These 'glass' cockpits still include many analog gauges and buttons today though, partially for redundancy but also because some controls just need to be a simple physical control - either because you can feel it and use it accurately even in the dark and don't have to fart around with menus, or because it provides some kind of useful feedback.

So one does not have to be pro/anti when it comes to buttons vs touchscreens. In fact, agnosticism is the only reasonable position. Both types of controls are useful and have their place in a vehicle.

With that being said, my opinion is that auto manufacturers have yet create touchscreen controls that beat physical buttons and dials when it comes to HVAC controls and input selection for the car stereo. They are much faster than a touch screen and I can operate them without even looking. Also, speaking as a driver in a place with extreme winters, I prefer a physical button for disabling traction control. When you get stuck in snow and have to rock it out, having to faff about with menus is aggravating. These issues might be solved by installing dedicated touchscreen displays where these controls were always visible and usable, not buried behind menus (which is more like how the 'glass' cockpit in an airplane is designed)

It's one thing to replace media (and, to a lesser extend, HVAC controls) with touch interfaces, but I absolutely do not get why anybody would think of replacing a physical light switch with a touch interface as a good idea.

 

[Huntn]

Carplay isn't needed if the car's own system is well developed.

Not saying I wouldn't love an Apple Music app on my Model 3, but I do not miss Carplay.

My complaint about CarPlay is that in a rental car, it tends to mess up my phone’s Waze navigation display, the map disappears and I’m left with a list of turns. 🤔

 

[JT2002TJ]

It's one thing to replace media (and, to a lesser extend, HVAC controls) with touch interfaces, but I absolutely do not get why anybody would think of replacing a physical light switch with a touch interface as a good idea.

I can't remember the last time I actually touched a headlight switch... All my vehicles have auto on (including my motorcycle, that's always on), and will automatically go on when the wipers are active (my truck doesn't have auto wipers, but has lights on with wiper).

I could live without a physical light switch...

 

[JT2002TJ]

My complaint about CarPlay is that in a rental car, it tends to mess up my phone’s Waze navigation display, the map disappears and I’m left with a list of turns. 🤔

I have CarPlay in my DD, it is an aftermarket Dynavin unit. I have have Waze crash (iphone 7+, X) in the past. I have not had this happen with my 13 Pro Max. What phone do you have?

 

[JT2002TJ]

As for CarPlay, I do miss it but it's not a dealbreaker. It's not that the technology isn't there, it's that Elon Musk doesn't want to use Apple software in his car and unfortunately is the main reason we see cross-platform incompatibility everywhere, not just Tesla.

Do Tesla's have a data apps for SiriusXM? Or does it use SirusXM via satellite?

I have a lifetime account with SiriusXM, my biggest need for CarPlay, is the ability to use the radio interface to manage SiriusXM (and not have to pay an additional $15+ monthly for service in the vehicle). If I use Bluetooth, you don't get the app's interface.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

It's one thing to replace media (and, to a lesser extend, HVAC controls) with touch interfaces, but I absolutely do not get why anybody would think of replacing a physical light switch with a touch interface as a good idea.

Agreed, I could have mentioned that one as well.

I can't remember the last time I actually touched a headlight switch... All my vehicles have auto on (including my motorcycle, that's always on), and will automatically go on when the wipers are active (my truck doesn't have auto wipers, but has lights on with wiper).

I could live without a physical light switch...

If you live in a place with lots of weather, there are times when the auto headlights are 'fooled' because the ambient light level is high enough to prevent them from coming on, but visibility is actually poor enough that you need headlights - fog, snow, some rainy/overcast conditions can do this. It's less of an issue with cars that have 'always on' daytime running lights, but those aren't always an adequate substitute for the headlamps.

One of my Fiestas has manual headlights, the other has auto - but the latter does have a physical headlight switch too.

 

[ericgtr12]

Do Tesla's have a data apps for SiriusXM? Or does it use SirusXM via satellite?

I have a lifetime account with SiriusXM, my biggest need for CarPlay, is the ability to use the radio interface to manage SiriusXM (and not have to pay an additional $15+ monthly for service in the vehicle). If I use Bluetooth, you don't get the app's interface.

Model S/X only, it makes sense because depending on the day and number of bong hits Elon is toking you may or may not get a specific service based on model.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Agreed, I could have mentioned that one as well.

If you live in a place with lots of weather, there are times when the auto headlights are 'fooled' because the ambient light level is high enough to prevent them from coming on, but visibility is actually poor enough that you need headlights - fog, snow, some rainy/overcast conditions can do this. It's less of an issue with cars that have 'always on' daytime running lights, but those aren't always an adequate substitute for the headlamps.

One of my Fiestas has manual headlights, the other has auto - but the latter does have a physical headlight switch too.

Most vehicles with auto on headlights have adjustable sensors. Either via some infotainment system, or via dealer programming.

I live in NY, we have bridges tunnels, snow, rain, fog, basically all of the above. Still haven't had to touch my headlight switch in years. As I had mentioned, all my vehicles have a setting for wipers on, headlights on, so rain/snow even if the day is bright, once you need the wipers the lights come on.

2008 Audi A4 - Auto wipers + auto on headlights with wipers
2003 325i - Auto wipers + auto on headlights with wipers
2015 Ram - Manual wipers + auto on headlights with wipers

So, with the Ram, I have to physically turn on the wipers, but within 2 wipes, the headlights turn on, regardless of brightness.

I would agree, if there isn't auto sensing headlights with a setting for wipers on headlights on, it would be silly to remove the physical buttons.

 

[Nütztjanix]

My former BMW 330d (e46) had automatic lights and wipers. While the wipers were too „nervous“ for my liking (even in the lowest setting they were almost constantly wiping), the headlights stayed off far too long. Especially in rain or fog condiditions they were still off when I would have turned them on long ago. Both systems were not (further) adjustable, according to BMW.

 

[44267547]

I definitely agree with minimising the need to touch certain controls whilst driving as any distraction is dangerous. Sometimes though it’s hard not to have to interact with something whilst moving and the more complicated the process, the more distraction to the driver.

True, A lot of times if I can’t take my eyes off the road when driving, I’ll just start randomly pushing buttons with my finger until I hit the right one. 😀

 

[Apple fanboy]

For someone who doesn't own one, you sure do think you know a lot about them. Opinions are like *holes, everyone has one, doesn't mean that yours is better than anyone else's. 🙂 Test driving one is not a full study. Hearing from actual owners who have put miles behind the wheel is where you get real information. You're biased against Tesla, so there's that.

Please provide a detailed study that shows physical buttons are safter than touch screens. And I'm not talking about something some kid wrote up, but an actual study. To say buttons are safer is so....behind the times. ;-) How did you ever get used to the iPhone??
Meanwhile, for those afraid of touchscreens such as yourself, there's always voice commands, which work in Teslas.

CarPlay/Android auto are not needed. The radio is very well designed and has everything I want...and I can always stream Apple Music from my phone if I wanted. Apple would want another subscription if they offered it...why would I pay more when I can just stream it?

Sorry am I not entitled to an opinion? Sorry if it doesn’t match yours. I don't think my opinion is better than anyone else's. Its just mine. When I buy a car I use my knowledge of 30 plus years of driving and research to make an informed decision.

To answer your points.

1. Test Driving one is not a full study. Absolutely. When I buy a car I research the different models in my price range and personal preferences. I would then test drive those that made the short list. However thew Tesla didn't make my shortlist due to the awful interior design.
2. Hearing from actual owners who have put miles behind the wheel is where you get real information. Again I agree with this statement and would see what current owners are saying about a car. I've heard plenty of Tesla owners moan about the build quality and lack of connectivity.
3. You're biased against Tesla. Not at all. I think their battery technology and charging infrastructure are fantastic. They just need to work on the other stuff like build quality, design and user interface.
4. Please provide a detailed study that shows physical buttons are safter than touch screens. And I'm not talking about something some kid wrote up, but an actual study. To say buttons are safer is so....behind the times. Couldn't disagree with this more. BMW didn't spend millions developing their i-Drive because they found the cheaper alternatives of touch screens safer. Anyway it is my opinion that matters. A touch screen is dangerous to use. You have to take your eyes off the road to do so (my Golf has a mixture of touch screen and physical buttons, so I'm basing this on my experience.) Physical buttons you just press.
5. How did you ever get used to the iPhone? Very easily. But comparing something you use whilst driving and something you use whilst not driving is like comparing Apples with oranges. Different scenario.
6. Meanwhile, for those afraid of touchscreens such as yourself, there's always voice commands, which work in Teslas. I'm not afraid. Just prefer superior in car technology. Voice commands are also available in the BMW I ordered. I find it easier to hit a switch than ask the car to turn the heater up though!
7. CarPlay/Android auto are not needed. The radio is very well designed and has everything I want. Good for you. I will never buy a car without Apple CarPlay (not too bothered about Android Auto!). But given someone posted a product on Amazon to fix the problem with Teslas's not having it, clearly many must think this is an issue.