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JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
2,057
1,386
My former BMW 330d (e46) had automatic lights and wipers. While the wipers were too „nervous“ for my liking (even in the lowest setting they were almost constantly wiping), the headlights stayed off far too long. Especially in rain or fog condiditions they were still off when I would have turned them on long ago. Both systems were not (further) adjustable, according to BMW.

The wiper and headlight sensor are the same. Just like my A4, there is that adjustment on the wiper stalk (as you pointed out).

There are 4 things that I have learned with auto wipers,
  1. Replace wiper blades more often then you think (water left causes wipers to keep going)
  2. Keep windshield clean
  3. Do not use the orange washer fluid (with rain-x)
  4. Rain/Light Sensors like any other sensor can fail
Specific to 3, there has been a known issue with that washer fluid that messes with washer fluid level sensors, and puts too much rain-x on the windshield. This can affect the sensitivity of the wipers/lights.

Specific to 4, there have been issues with the rain/light sensor even with OEM windshields. Another issue is when you do replace a windshield, sometimes the aftermarket sensor isn't glued properly (there are writeups on how to re-glue them on).

I have an aftermarket shield on my e46. I have zero issues with the wiper sensitivity (with the 18 yo OEM shield and now with the replacement). My headlights also are perfect, but I am ok with them coming on earlier than later.

There also is a known issue with the e46 Light Control Module (the switch itself), and unfortunately they are coded to the vehicle, so if you try to swap it yourself, it can trigger the tamper dot on the cluster.

Basically, I should have said, as long as your system is functioning properly (and it can function properly by fixing issues, which can get expensive), if you have auto headlights, one can survive without a physical headlight button.
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
15,678
5,511
Sod off
There also is a known issue with the e46 Light Control Module (the switch itself), and unfortunately they are coded to the vehicle, so if you try to swap it yourself, it can trigger the tamper dot on the cluster.
This is a dastardly practice. And the Germans are leading the way in characterizing 'maintenance' and 'repairs' as 'tampering.'

It's fine for people who never work on their own cars and don't mind paying whatever dealers ask for maintenance work. But it stinks for everyone else.
 

JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
2,057
1,386
This is a dastardly practice. And the Germans are leading the way in characterizing 'maintenance' and 'repairs' as 'tampering.'

It's fine for people who never work on their own cars and don't mind paying whatever dealers ask for maintenance work. But it stinks for everyone else.

This!!!!! All day and all night... And if you touch your vehicle while under warranty, they will do whatever they can to void your warranty. Since I only buy CPO, sometimes the copay is more than the part and time to swap it myself.

While my A4 was under CPO warranty, Audi implemented a chip/programmer detection that forced local dealers to transmit data to Audi every time you show up (even for oil changes) known as TD1 flag. They were counting the number of times anything was written to the ECM, if it didn't match their records, you were red flagged...

Ram stores mileage in multiple locations, so if you swap the ECM (another trick to be able to swap back to OEM before warranty work) they can check the mileage between ECM, Cluster, and Transmission, if they don't match, you can be flagged.
 

Nütztjanix

macrumors 68000
Jul 31, 2019
1,535
985
Germany
The wiper and headlight sensor are the same. Just like my A4, there is that adjustment on the wiper stalk (as you pointed out).

There are 4 things that I have learned with auto wipers,
  1. Replace wiper blades more often then you think (water left causes wipers to keep going)
  2. Keep windshield clean
  3. Do not use the orange washer fluid (with rain-x)
  4. Rain/Light Sensors like any other sensor can fail
Specific to 3, there has been a known issue with that washer fluid that messes with washer fluid level sensors, and puts too much rain-x on the windshield. This can affect the sensitivity of the wipers/lights.

Specific to 4, there have been issues with the rain/light sensor even with OEM windshields. Another issue is when you do replace a windshield, sometimes the aftermarket sensor isn't glued properly (there are writeups on how to re-glue them on).

I have an aftermarket shield on my e46. I have zero issues with the wiper sensitivity (with the 18 yo OEM shield and now with the replacement). My headlights also are perfect, but I am ok with them coming on earlier than later.

There also is a known issue with the e46 Light Control Module (the switch itself), and unfortunately they are coded to the vehicle, so if you try to swap it yourself, it can trigger the tamper dot on the cluster.

Basically, I should have said, as long as your system is functioning properly (and it can function properly by fixing issues, which can get expensive), if you have auto headlights, one can survive without a physical headlight button.

Everything was OEM regarding these systems. Original sensor and windshield, and I only used Sonax washer fluid (don't know if it's something you know in the US) and Bosch wiper blades (OEM), changed once a year minimum. These systems always annoyed me the whole nine years I had that car (2004 MY — one of the last tourings).
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
15,678
5,511
Sod off
This!!!!! All day and all night...
Speaking as someone who intends to keep his new cars for their entire lives (and who owns a 24 year-old pickup on the side), this kind of 'flagging' will make my life difficult as vehicles age. I don't own a German luxury car, but when these Audis and BMWs are 15+ years old and you can't fix them because they need to be 'blessed' by a dealer when parts are replaced, and the dealers don't want to work on your older cars (or charge you the 'I don't want to work on this' rate), what does one do?

If you watch Youtubers who mess around with older luxury cars you see that once the car gets to be about 10 years old, depreciation has taken them to a point where any one of a dozen components failing will total the whole car. And in some cases, like certain BMW and Audi motors, there are little gaskets that are guaranteed to fail in impossible-to-get places, again potentially totaling the car.

Again, people who only buy new will never know this pain and don't care...but millions of car people actually want to own/drive their cars for more than 5 years, or buy cars older than 5 years....and it kind of matters that the car can, you know, be repaired economically.

Luckily my Fiestas don't have those issues, though I did discover when replacing a fan resistor that the trim panels are secured with plastic screws that snap if you even think about touching them (and you know as the car ages these screws will become increasingly brittle). So if you plan on doing the job chances are you'll need a couple extras unless you're just plain lucky.
 

JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
2,057
1,386
Speaking as someone who intends to keep his new cars for their entire lives (and who owns a 24 year-old pickup on the side), this kind of 'flagging' will make my life difficult as vehicles age. I don't own a German luxury car, but when these Audis and BMWs are 15+ years old and you can't fix them because they need to be 'blessed' by a dealer when parts are replaced, and the dealers don't want to work on your older cars (or charge you the 'I don't want to work on this' rate), what does one do?

If you watch Youtubers who mess around with older luxury cars you see that once the car gets to be about 10 years old, depreciation has taken them to a point where any one of a dozen components failing will total the whole car. And in some cases, like certain BMW and Audi motors, there are little gaskets that are guaranteed to fail in impossible-to-get places, again potentially totaling the car.

Again, people who only buy new will never know this pain and don't care...but millions of car people actually want to own/drive their cars for more than 5 years, or buy cars older than 5 years....and it kind of matters that the car can, you know, be repaired economically.

Luckily my Fiestas don't have those issues, though I did discover when replacing a fan resistor that the trim panels are secured with plastic screws that snap if you even think about touching them (and you know as the car ages these screws will become increasingly brittle). So if you plan on doing the job chances are you'll need a couple extras unless you're just plain lucky.

This is all very true.

I worry about this with EV, especially those NOT made by major auto manufactures. Parts from day one are immediately hard to find/controlled by the manufacturer, require special set of skills to work on them (Taken level of knowledge). The EV market seems like an Apple watch, a disposable product with a short lifespan. I will have an EV some day, it is just what I worry about.

Before I bought my Ram ('15 model I got in '17) the last vehicle I purchased was the A4 ('08 model I got in '10 and still have today). Before that it was a Wrangler ('02 model I got CPO in '02) I sold in '10.

My wife and I keep our vehicles...
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,297
25,438
Wales, United Kingdom
Speaking as someone who intends to keep his new cars for their entire lives (and who owns a 24 year-old pickup on the side), this kind of 'flagging' will make my life difficult as vehicles age. I don't own a German luxury car, but when these Audis and BMWs are 15+ years old and you can't fix them because they need to be 'blessed' by a dealer when parts are replaced, and the dealers don't want to work on your older cars (or charge you the 'I don't want to work on this' rate), what does one do?

If you watch Youtubers who mess around with older luxury cars you see that once the car gets to be about 10 years old, depreciation has taken them to a point where any one of a dozen components failing will total the whole car. And in some cases, like certain BMW and Audi motors, there are little gaskets that are guaranteed to fail in impossible-to-get places, again potentially totaling the car.

Again, people who only buy new will never know this pain and don't care...but millions of car people actually want to own/drive their cars for more than 5 years, or buy cars older than 5 years....and it kind of matters that the car can, you know, be repaired economically.

Luckily my Fiestas don't have those issues, though I did discover when replacing a fan resistor that the trim panels are secured with plastic screws that snap if you even think about touching them (and you know as the car ages these screws will become increasingly brittle). So if you plan on doing the job chances are you'll need a couple extras unless you're just plain lucky.

We are going into an era now where cars are getting g so expensive that it’ll be the norm to keep them for 5 years plus. My daily driver is 7 years old now and it’s still considered a fairly new car by current standards.

I think personally many consumers will be forced down the leasing route by the governments in Europe who want everybody to go electric. The problem is, EV’s are very expensive and when the average spend on cars now is £12k, a £50k-£100k car is just not viable for people on modest incomes.
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
15,678
5,511
Sod off
We are going into an era now where cars are getting g so expensive that it’ll be the norm to keep them for 5 years plus. My daily driver is 7 years old now and it’s still considered a fairly new car by current standards.

I think personally many consumers will be forced down the leasing route by the governments in Europe who want everybody to go electric. The problem is, EV’s are very expensive and when the average spend on cars now is £12k, a £50k-£100k car is just not viable for people on modest incomes.
True The transition to EVs and sustainable power is a way bigger conversation than we can have here, but I agree that it will be a tough one for consumers, yet it is inevitable. The reality is many people ought to be driving less or driving smaller cars, and they won’t do that till circumstances force them to. And politically they’ll fight it all the way.

And in terms of driving less I’m not taking about car enthusiasts. I’m talking about your average person. Oil ain’t gonna get cheaper. It’s only going one way in the long term regardless of who you vote for, who you invade, or how much you drill.
 

bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,352
6,495
Kentucky
Speaking as someone who intends to keep his new cars for their entire lives (and who owns a 24 year-old pickup on the side), this kind of 'flagging' will make my life difficult as vehicles age. I don't own a German luxury car, but when these Audis and BMWs are 15+ years old and you can't fix them because they need to be 'blessed' by a dealer when parts are replaced, and the dealers don't want to work on your older cars (or charge you the 'I don't want to work on this' rate), what does one do?

If you watch Youtubers who mess around with older luxury cars you see that once the car gets to be about 10 years old, depreciation has taken them to a point where any one of a dozen components failing will total the whole car. And in some cases, like certain BMW and Audi motors, there are little gaskets that are guaranteed to fail in impossible-to-get places, again potentially totaling the car.

Again, people who only buy new will never know this pain and don't care...but millions of car people actually want to own/drive their cars for more than 5 years, or buy cars older than 5 years....and it kind of matters that the car can, you know, be repaired economically.

Luckily my Fiestas don't have those issues, though I did discover when replacing a fan resistor that the trim panels are secured with plastic screws that snap if you even think about touching them (and you know as the car ages these screws will become increasingly brittle). So if you plan on doing the job chances are you'll need a couple extras unless you're just plain lucky.

I found a Youtube channel a while back that I'm struggling to locate now, but the person more or less specialized in V12 BMWs.

He'd generally buy them either non-running or running poorly. He knew the common failure points and had the tools and knowledge to diagnose, repair, and do preventative maintenance on them. He also did things like rebuild fuel pump assemblies(all the videos I saw had two fuel pumps and often one would fail) for say $200 vs. spending $1500 for the complete assembly from BMW(sort of making up numbers but they were somewhere around there). There were other things I remember him doing where he'd break down components that, again, were generally only sold as a unit.

All said and done he'd spend a couple of weeks on and off working on one and usually have $2-4K in it. That's not a small amount of money, but probably easily 1/10 what even an independent shop would have charged and end up with a perfectly running car. Even though he'd sell them at the end, it came across to me as more of a hobby/pleasure to get these cars running.
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,297
25,438
Wales, United Kingdom
True The transition to EVs and sustainable power is a way bigger conversation than we can have here, but I agree that it will be a tough one for consumers, yet it is inevitable. The reality is many people ought to be driving less or driving smaller cars, and they won’t do that till circumstances force them to. And politically they’ll fight it all the way.

And in terms of driving less I’m not taking about car enthusiasts. I’m talking about your average person. Oil ain’t gonna get cheaper. It’s only going one way in the long term regardless of who you vote for, who you invade, or how much you drill.

It’s not realistic to expect everybody to drive smaller cars though when they have families with two or three children. It’s just not practical. Driving less is fine to suggest, but public transport is so appalling that it leaves people without a choice often. These sorts of suggestions tend to be put forward in the UK by MP’s who live in London with a good transport system and who have no idea how the average family gets about, not to mention funds all this themselves without tax payer funded expenses etc.

Electric cars need to be offered in bigger options and at realistic prices and right now they are way off.
 
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Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,912
55,850
Behind the Lens, UK
It’s not realistic to expect everybody to drive smaller cars though when they have families with two or three children. It’s just not practical. Driving less is fine to suggest, but public transport is so appalling that it leaves people without a choice often. These sorts of suggestions tend to be put forward in the UK by MP’s who live in London with a good transport system and who have no idea how the average family gets about, not to mention funds all this themselves without tax payer funded expenses etc.

Electric cars need to be offered in bigger options and at realistic prices and right now they are way off.
It’s not realistic, especially for people with families agreed. However plenty of single people driving around in 2.8 litre supercharged this or that, that could make a better choice for the planet. But I guess it’s personal choice.
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,297
25,438
Wales, United Kingdom
It’s not realistic, especially for people with families agreed. However plenty of single people driving around in 2.8 litre supercharged this or that, that could make a better choice for the planet. But I guess it’s personal choice.

I hope there is a choice when I have no choice but to buy an electric car though. Right now my choices are to spend £40k+ if I want an SUV size electric Kia or Skoda, or lease at £500 a month. If I was single, there are plenty of affordable small EV’s, albeit short range and generally quite crap, but there is some choice.
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,912
55,850
Behind the Lens, UK
I hope there is a choice when I have no choice but to buy an electric car though. Right now my choices are to spend £40k+ if I want an SUV size electric Kia or Skoda, or lease at £500 a month. If I was single, there are plenty of affordable small EV’s, albeit short range and generally quite crap, but there is some choice.
There is more choice every day. As we (in the U.K.) approach the ban on new ICE cars in 2030, the choices will get even better. Plus there will be a lot more second hand options.
As for range, how often do you drive over 100 miles? For me it’s not that often. Plus a pit stop is fine. Grab a coffee and surf MR for a bit.
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
15,678
5,511
Sod off
It’s not realistic to expect everybody to drive smaller cars though when they have families with two or three children. It’s just not practical. Driving less is fine to suggest, but public transport is so appalling that it leaves people without a choice often. These sorts of suggestions tend to be put forward in the UK by MP’s who live in London with a good transport system and who have no idea how the average family gets about, not to mention funds all this themselves without tax payer funded expenses etc.

Electric cars need to be offered in bigger options and at realistic prices and right now they are way off.
I'm not suggesting the same solutions will work for everyone, or that coming up with new solutions will be quick or easy. But the general trend is going to have to be towards more efficient transportation, in the big picture sense. That means a combination of less driving, smaller average vehicle size, more efficient vehicles, and more better and public transport networks. Moreover, economic realities, rather than political arguments, are going to increasingly drive this trend. You might want to drive, but if you cant afford to pay, you are not going anywhere.

None of this means I'm wagging a finger at you if you want a full-size truck or a V12 AMG Merc or something. It just means those things are going to keep getting substantially more expensive to buy and own in proportion to the average wage. More and more people are getting priced out of the auto market every day. It started at the bottom but the middle classes (the fundamental customer base of today's auto industry) are getting squeezed pretty hard right now.

The prices of EVs will come down with time, but driving in general is becoming more expensive, and that trend is not going to change in the foreseeable future. Using the past as a guide to how much autos and fuel 'should' cost is unrealistic if you look at where the long-term trends are pointing.
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,297
25,438
Wales, United Kingdom
There is more choice every day. As we (in the U.K.) approach the ban on new ICE cars in 2030, the choices will get even better. Plus there will be a lot more second hand options.
As for range, how often do you drive over 100 miles? For me it’s not that often. Plus a pit stop is fine. Grab a coffee and surf MR for a bit.

The options probably need to come in the next couple of years to allow them to depreciate down to levels that are obtainable for 2030.

I do 100+ miles trips probably 2 or 3 times a month. I rarely stop in services though unless one of the kids need a wee. I’d rather not sit for an hour waiting for a car to charge with two very bored children arguing in the back thanks lol. That’s the other thing that needs to be addressed by 2030, fast charging compatible with petrol refilling times. Nobody wants to be in a queue waiting for a charge station and then the added charge time on top. It’s all good now with fewer EV’s but we queue for fuel often now and that’s a quick process.
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
15,678
5,511
Sod off
The options probably need to come in the next couple of years to allow them to depreciate down to levels that are obtainable for 2030.

I do 100+ miles trips probably 2 or 3 times a month. I rarely stop in services though unless one of the kids need a wee. I’d rather not sit for an hour waiting for a car to charge with two very bored children arguing in the back thanks lol. That’s the other thing that needs to be addressed by 2030, fast charging compatible with petrol refilling times. Nobody wants to be in a queue waiting for a charge station and then the added charge time on top. It’s all good now with fewer EV’s but we queue for fuel often now and that’s a quick process.
The harsh reality is that there is no guarantee that EVs are ever going to equal ICE autos in terms of value for money (with the massive caveat that this statement is only true when we ignore the broader costs of reliance on fossil fuels). On average they'll continue to be more expensive and shorter-ranged for the foreseeable future everywhere except at the high end.

That could change as EV technology matures. But it's not a certain outcome.
 

Nütztjanix

macrumors 68000
Jul 31, 2019
1,535
985
Germany
We are going into an era now where cars are getting g so expensive that it’ll be the norm to keep them for 5 years plus. My daily driver is 7 years old now and it’s still considered a fairly new car by current standards.

I think personally many consumers will be forced down the leasing route by the governments in Europe who want everybody to go electric. The problem is, EV’s are very expensive and when the average spend on cars now is £12k, a £50k-£100k car is just not viable for people on modest incomes.
I think I mentioned it already, but I swapped said BMW 330d (2004) which was my daily driver up until recently for a 1992 Passat (petrol) — and I couldn't be happier.
I have nearly no electronics in that car, I don't need VW's „blessing“ on parts or repair, if something fails (which rarely happens with these cars aside from wear), parts are cheap and easy to come by, working on these cars is easy, and generally these are from an era where things were built to last (the Passat turns 30 years tomorrow).
Granted, this solution won't work for everyone, but for me it is perfect. I don't need a Diesel anymore, as I don't do the mileage that's needed for it in Germany any longer. It doesn't annoy me daily with crap that stops working while it really shouldn't.
I get all the things you really need (anti-lock brakes, air condition, heated seats and so on) and I almost forgot how much fun driving an old car is, where you're not fully disconnected from the road and the world outside.
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,297
25,438
Wales, United Kingdom
I'm not suggesting the same solutions will work for everyone, or that coming up with new solutions will be quick or easy. But the general trend is going to have to be towards more efficient transportation, in the big picture sense. That means a combination of less driving, smaller average vehicle size, more efficient vehicles, and more better and public transport networks. Moreover, economic realities, rather than political arguments, are going to increasingly drive this trend. You might want to drive, but if you cant afford to pay, you are not going anywhere.

None of this means I'm wagging a finger at you if you want a full-size truck or a V12 AMG Merc or something. It just means those things are going to keep getting substantially more expensive to buy and own in proportion to the average wage. More and more people are getting priced out of the auto market every day. It started at the bottom but the middle classes (the fundamental customer base of today's auto industry) are getting squeezed pretty hard right now.

The prices of EVs will come down with time, but driving in general is becoming more expensive, and that trend is not going to change in the foreseeable future. Using the past as a guide to how much autos and fuel 'should' cost is unrealistic if you look at where the long-term trends are pointing.

We are getting squeezed on everything at the moment and fuel is a major factor where costs are going up again later in the year. My home energy bills went up 185% in a matter of weeks and it now costs me £40 a month more in fuel to get to work and back. I’d be more than willing to try an EV but I think by the time 2030 comes, they’ll be as expensive to run as fuel equivalents are now the way things are going. If I didn’t have a car, I couldn’t work in the job I do as I couldn’t get there via public transport and there are no jobs like that in my area. The whole thing is worrying me, although it’s 8 years away yet and maybe it’ll force more people to work from home or find more local lower paid jobs anyway.
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,297
25,438
Wales, United Kingdom
The harsh reality is that there is no guarantee that EVs are ever going to equal ICE autos in terms of value for money (with the massive caveat that this statement is only true when we ignore the broader costs of reliance on fossil fuels). On average they'll continue to be more expensive and shorter-ranged for the foreseeable future everywhere except at the high end.

That could change as EV technology matures. But it's not a certain outcome.

Yeah I fear you are right and it at least gives the added incentive to savour our diesel and petrol powered cars for as long as possible. I think the golden era of motoring will be a thing of the past and sadly our kids will never know the feeling of driving an actual car with manual gears. The skill will be lost and automatic electric motors the norm . It’s not going away and I just hope there are legs in the emission neutral petrol engine technology that keeps being mentioned and maybe there is a future for electric and fossil fuel vehicles beyond 2030. Time will tell.
 

bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,352
6,495
Kentucky
One elephant in the room with EVs that is starting to be addressed but not fully yet is the issue of taxes.

With ICE vehicles, we have fuel taxes that are supposed to pay for the upkeep of roads. US federal tax is 18.4¢/gallon and my state(Illinois) charges 59.56¢/gallon of gasoline. Although taxing per gallon isn't perfect, it's probably about the most fair way that it can be done without being unecessarily complicated or invasive. I say that because heavier vehicle and/or higher speeds tend to be harder on the roads, and as a general rule both of those correlate with reduced gas mileage. Obviously too the more miles you drive(thus causing more road wear) the more you pay in taxes.

From what I can find, Illinois has attempted to get back some of the lost revenue on EVs by tacking an extra $100/year onto registration. This is still less than what a hybrid getting 40mpg and driving 10,000 miles a year would pay($147/year to the state, plus $47.25 to the Feds) but also doesn't scale with vehicle sizes(the EVs I've actually looked at numbers on are HEAVY) or miles driven.

As EVs become more common in the future, it's an unfortunate fact that the revenue lost from gas taxes will have to come from somewhere. The most obvious way is going to be from finding a way to tax EVs, but IMO to replicate the current model, it would need to at a minimum correct for actual usage(why should someone who drives 1K/year pay the same as someone driving 20K?).

I say all of that to just say that the "free ride" or at least reduced ride for EVs likely will have to be addressed somewhere along the way.
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,912
55,850
Behind the Lens, UK
One elephant in the room with EVs that is starting to be addressed but not fully yet is the issue of taxes.

With ICE vehicles, we have fuel taxes that are supposed to pay for the upkeep of roads. US federal tax is 18.4¢/gallon and my state(Illinois) charges 59.56¢/gallon of gasoline. Although taxing per gallon isn't perfect, it's probably about the most fair way that it can be done without being unecessarily complicated or invasive. I say that because heavier vehicle and/or higher speeds tend to be harder on the roads, and as a general rule both of those correlate with reduced gas mileage. Obviously too the more miles you drive(thus causing more road wear) the more you pay in taxes.

From what I can find, Illinois has attempted to get back some of the lost revenue on EVs by tacking an extra $100/year onto registration. This is still less than what a hybrid getting 40mpg and driving 10,000 miles a year would pay($147/year to the state, plus $47.25 to the Feds) but also doesn't scale with vehicle sizes(the EVs I've actually looked at numbers on are HEAVY) or miles driven.

As EVs become more common in the future, it's an unfortunate fact that the revenue lost from gas taxes will have to come from somewhere. The most obvious way is going to be from finding a way to tax EVs, but IMO to replicate the current model, it would need to at a minimum correct for actual usage(why should someone who drives 1K/year pay the same as someone driving 20K?).

I say all of that to just say that the "free ride" or at least reduced ride for EVs likely will have to be addressed somewhere along the way.
This is going to happen sooner than later. The government can't afford to lose all that revenue. Of course I expect the taxation for ICE cars to get higher and higher (as well an the inevitable petrol price increases).

Mind you with the electric price rises that's not going to be a cheap option either.
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
15,678
5,511
Sod off
I say all of that to just say that the "free ride" or at least reduced ride for EVs likely will have to be addressed somewhere along the way.
This is why I have adopted the very unpopular position that we (citizens, taxpayers, motorists) need to wake up from the assumption that our lifestyles are permanently shielded by technological and/or political 'fixes.' There are still a lot of people that assume we can just keep gas prices lower, or make EVs a lot cheaper, without any big tradeoffs or consequences. That is simply untrue.

The quickest way to get voted out of office is to tell people 'you all need to change your behavior' - but that 's exactly what the sum total of all the evidence points to. Ignoring these issues won't make them go away.

If we are lucky, technological and political solutions will go a long way towards helping make those changes as modest and convenient as possible. But there's no guarantee of that.
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,297
25,438
Wales, United Kingdom
This is why I have adopted the very unpopular position that we (citizens, taxpayers, motorists) need to wake up from the assumption that our lifestyles are permanently shielded by technological and/or political 'fixes.' There are still a lot of people that assume we can just keep gas prices lower, or make EVs a lot cheaper, without any big tradeoffs or consequences. That is simply untrue.

The quickest way to get voted out of office is to tell people 'you all need to change your behavior' - but that 's exactly what the sum total of all the evidence points to. Ignoring these issues won't make them go away.

If we are lucky, technological and political solutions will go a long way towards helping make those changes as modest and convenient as possible. But there's no guarantee of that.

If the cost of people using cars becomes unaffordable, then this has a wider impact on the economy though which needs to be considered by those setting the costs. It’s a balance that needs to be judged and I’m sure there are many greedy parties in the equation that will want as much profit from drivers as possible too. It may be that electric cars are treated like a mortgage in future years and people keep for much longer. That does mean the car companies will see less demand for newer cars than they are used to, but then the new car market has been stalling since 2017 when higher tax bands came in anyway.

I just had a look to see what the public transport situation is like in my town and if I could get to work using it. If I want to get to work for my start time of 8am, I’d have to leave my house at 21:07pm the night before to start my journey lol. It’s not like I live in a remote town and am only 14 miles from work by road. I’d have 80 mile journey each way using a mix of buses and trains and this highlights just how unbelievably poor public transport is in countries away from the major cities. Cars are vital for a lot of people and there are a lot of challenges between now and 2030 I think.
 
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