The Car Thread ... !

[Apple fanboy]

If the cost of people using cars becomes unaffordable, then this has a wider impact on the economy though which needs to be considered by those setting the costs. It’s a balance that needs to be judged and I’m sure there are many greedy parties in the equation that will want as much profit from drivers as possible too. It may be that electric cars are treated like a mortgage in future years and people keep for much longer. That does mean the car companies will see less demand for newer cars than they are used to, but then the new car market has been stalling since 2017 when higher tax bands came in anyway.

I just had a look to see what the public transport situation is like in my town and if I could get to work using it. If I want to get to work for my start time of 8am, I’d have to leave my house at 21:07pm the night before to start my journey lol. It’s not like I live in a remote town and am only 14 miles from work by road. I’d have 80 mile journey each way using a mix of buses and trains and this highlights just how unbelievably poor public transport is in countries away from the major cities. Cars are vital for a lot of people and there are a lot of challenges between now and 2030 I think.

14 miles? You need a bike! Similar where I live. There is no option without a car to get to work etc.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

14 miles? You need a bike! Similar where I live. There is no option without a car to get to work etc.

I was expecting to see that as a suggestion lol. 14 miles with an elevation change of around 700 feet in a part of Wales where it’s 1300 ft above sea level with high winds and regular rain. Also the roads are not safe for cycling and partly dual carriageway. I used to cycle to work when I lived in Cardiff which is a nice flat city, lovely in the summer.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I was expecting to see that as a suggestion lol. 14 miles with an elevation change of around 700 feet in a part of Wales where it’s 1300 ft above sea level with high winds and regular rain. Also the roads are not safe for cycling and partly dual carriageway. I used to cycle to work when I lived in Cardiff which is a nice flat city, lovely in the summer.

In sumner yes. An E-bike would help. But if your office based and there are no showers, it’s not really popular with your colleagues.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Cars are vital for a lot of people and there are a lot of challenges between now and 2030 I think.

I agree. For the last few years I have lived 1 mile from my place of work, but that has changed and I live in a rural area with essentially NO public transportation network (though, with reference to previous posts here, I think it's worth pointing out that my area used to have both rail service and a streetcar network. All gone with the advent of the automobile). But now I am reliant on an automobile to get to work.

So people are getting squeezed with the costs of driving. Yet in the US we are still suffering a hangover from the decades of cheap gas and unlimited vehicle size. Why else would the big three still be pushing ludicrous landships like Suburbans, Excursions, and Grand Wagoneers that can't manage 20mpg at best and are now creeping past $100k? I'm not saying they shouldn't exist but they should be niche market vehicles, not the aspirational mainstream.

Consumers need to be making more economical choices in order to create demand for the kinds of vehicles we'll need in the future. The criticism of EVs and hybrids as pious virtue signalers is now a very old fashioned perspective, but they are still too expensive on average and greater demand will help push manufacturers even harder to work rectify that. Which isn't to say manufacturers are innocent. They want to make high profit-margin ICE SUVs and trucks, not EVs and more economical cars. That's where regulation comes in, to help push them to think ahead rather than about this quarter.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I agree. For the last few years I have lived 1 mile from my place of work, but that has changed and I live in a rural area with essentially NO public transportation network (though, with reference to previous posts here, I think it's worth pointing out that my area used to have both rail service and a streetcar network. All gone with the advent of the automobile). But now I am reliant on an automobile to get to work.

So people are getting squeezed with the costs of driving. Yet in the US we are still suffering a hangover from the decades of cheap gas and unlimited vehicle size. Why else would the big three still be pushing ludicrous landships like Suburbans, Excursions, and Grand Wagoneers that can't manage 20mpg at best and are now creeping past $100k? I'm not saying they shouldn't exist but they should be niche market vehicles, not the aspirational mainstream.

Consumers need to be making more economical choices in order to create demand for the kinds of vehicles we'll need in the future. The criticism of EVs and hybrids as pious virtue signalers is now a very old fashioned perspective, but they are still too expensive on average and greater demand will help push manufacturers even harder to work rectify that. Which isn't to say manufacturers are innocent. They want to make high profit-margin ICE SUVs and trucks, not EVs and more economical cars. That's where regulation comes in, to help push them to think ahead rather than about this quarter.

America has a bit of a different perspective I think when it comes up SUV’s in that they are enormous. It’s absolutely ridiculous how big some of the cars are in the states and the decades of producing inefficient cars. Our SUV’s are tiny by comparison, but still big when compared to a lot of EV’s being released at the moment. My 3008 has a 590 litre boot which is just about big enough for a week away with the family. There’s no way around avoiding this need and going for anything smaller and that’s why I am concerned than car manufacturers are leaving it late to release cars that satisfy this sector that are at the same time affordable.

I know some will make the argument that you pay more for an EV but will pay less to run it in the long run. However, I don’t pay for my fuel now years in advance, and don’t want a £60k-£70k car loan just to be able to afford something big enough. I watch all this with interest as we see our fuel prices creeping up yet again.

 

[JamesMay82]

I’m based in the UK and just been chatting to my friend in Florida and following the current trend of complaining about the cost of living and in particular gas prices.

I’ve just checked the main big brands of Ford, BMW, Toyota and Kia and none of them offer a gas powered car that can get over 50MPG!

All the affordable and Efficient models we have from these brands don’t exist or if they do exist it’s only in 2.0 litre plus engine cars with terrible economy!

Why oh why? I’m actually completely and utterly shocked.

Have I missed one? Surely there’s got to be some? I think because I’d view America as one of the leaders in companies like Apple preaching the green life and all the celebs etc talking the talk but then motoring industry has their ear muffs on?

 

[Apple fanboy]

I’m based in the UK and just been chatting to my friend in Florida and following the current trend of complaining about the cost of living and in particular gas prices.

I’ve just checked the main big brands of Ford, BMW, Toyota and Kia and none of them offer a gas powered car that can get over 50MPG!

All the affordable and Efficient models we have from these brands don’t exist or if they do exist it’s only in 2.0 litre plus engine cars with terrible economy!

Why oh why? I’m actually completely and utterly shocked.

Have I missed one? Surely there’s got to be some? I think because I’d view America as one of the leaders in companies like Apple preaching the green life and all the celebs etc talking the talk but then motoring industry has their ear muffs on?

I get around 50 mpg in my VW Golf.
But I’m off to look at an EV so that will smash that!

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

My car does anything from 35 to 56 mpg depending on the speed and heat of the engine. I fill up every 2 and a half weeks though and get around 470 miles out of a full tank, sometimes a bit more.

 

[JamesMay82]

I get around 50 mpg in my VW Golf.
But I’m off to look at an EV so that will smash that!

Ah that’s not to bad I only saw the GTI listed on the American site which only do mid 30’s MPG I couldn’t see a standard golf. Regardless it’s a shame that manufacturers don’t offer the same eco engines like they do to rest of the world.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Ah that’s not to bad I only saw the GTI listed on the American site which only do mid 30’s MPG I couldn’t see a standard golf. Regardless it’s a shame that manufacturers don’t offer the same eco engines like they do to rest of the world.

Mines a 1.4 litre petrol. But you have to drive sensibly to achieve that. Part of the issue is the more technology we have in our cars the heavier they are.

 

[quagmire]

Also keep in mind, your 50 MPG is using imperial gallons and the US measures a gallon differently. So 50 MPG in the UK, is closer to 40 MPG in the US. Plus different testing standards will result in different ratings.

Take for example, the Model 3. On the testing standards using the Euro testing standard, the rated range is 374 miles. EPA range is 358 miles. Same exact car. Two different testing standards.

I will echo my thoughts from the considering electric car thread, don't force your views onto others. You may view a car as nothing, but an appliance. You may think 120 HP is all that is needed. That is fine. But I am a car freak. I love cars. I loved the 6.2 liter V8 in my Camaro SS. I aspire to own the C8 Corvette Z06 with the 670 HP 5.5 liter V8. I do not care I can't use all that power on the road without going to jail, but I loved driving it. I loved the power that was on tap if I needed it. I can't stand driving gutless engines.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Also keep in mind, your 50 MPG is using imperial gallons and the US measures a gallon differently. So 50 MPG in the UK, is closer to 40 MPG in the US. Plus different testing standards will result in different ratings.

Take for example, the Model 3. On the testing standards using the Euro testing standard, the rated range is 374 miles. EPA range is 358 miles. Same exact car. Two different testing standards.

I will echo my thoughts from the considering electric car thread, don't force your views onto others. You may view a car as nothing, but an appliance. You may think 120 HP is all that is needed. That is fine. But I am a car freak. I love cars. I loved the 6.2 liter V8 in my Camaro SS. I aspire to own the C8 Corvette Z06 with the 670 HP 5.5 liter V8. I do not care I can't use all that power on the road without going to jail, but I loved driving it. I loved the power that was on tap if I needed it. I can't stand driving gutless engines.

Car guy here as well. Just an earth guy as well. Don’t force your views either. Car guys don’t have to drive huge petrol guzzling cars

 

[quagmire]

Car guy here as well. Just an earth guy as well. Don’t force your views either. Car guys don’t have to drive huge petrol guzzling cars

I am not forcing my views unlike the other person. The 450 HP car makes up a small amount of cars on the road. The Ferrari's, Porsche, etc even smaller.

I am fine if you want to drive around in a smaller engine, but don't come in here with an attitude of since you're fine with it, everyone else should be because speeding is illegal anyway so bigger engines should be outlawed.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I am not forcing my views unlike the other person. The 450 HP car makes up a small amount of cars on the road. The Ferrari's, Porsche, etc even smaller.

I am fine if you want to drive around in a smaller engine, but don't come in here with an attitude of since you're fine with it, everyone else should be because speeding is illegal anyway so bigger engines should be outlawed.

Did I say that? I can come in here with my views, same as you can with yours. There is no one solution that will suit everyone. I'm just trying to do my best for the environment and my family and my wallet.

 

[JamesMay82]

I am not forcing my views unlike the other person. The 450 HP car makes up a small amount of cars on the road. The Ferrari's, Porsche, etc even smaller.

I am fine if you want to drive around in a smaller engine, but don't come in here with an attitude of since you're fine with it, everyone else should be because speeding is illegal anyway so bigger engines should be outlawed.

I assume your referring to my post. I’m also a car guy who has a gas guzzling daily and until recently had a dedicated track car.

My poorly made point was that electric cars just don’t have affordable models for folks and we don’t have the infrastructure to accommodate them yet. Here in the UK they are allegedly stopping petrol and diesel sales from 2030. My question is if the world moved to 1 litre cars as an extreme example would this help the climate change in the short term till electric cars are ready for prime time.

 

[JamesMay82]

I am not forcing my views unlike the other person. The 450 HP car makes up a small amount of cars on the road. The Ferrari's, Porsche, etc even smaller.

I am fine if you want to drive around in a smaller engine, but don't come in here with an attitude of since you're fine with it, everyone else should be because speeding is illegal anyway so bigger engines should be outlawed.

I assume your referring to my post. I’m also a car guy who has a gas guzzling daily and until recently had a dedicated track car.

My poorly made point was that electric cars just don’t have affordable models for folks and we don’t have the infrastructure to accommodate them yet. Here in the UK they are allegedly stopping petrol and diesel sales from 2030. My question is if the world moved to 1 litre cars as an extreme example would this help the climate change in the short term till electric cars are ready for prime time.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I will echo my thoughts from the considering electric car thread, don't force your views onto others. You may view a car as nothing, but an appliance. You may think 120 HP is all that is needed. That is fine. But I am a car freak. I love cars. I loved the 6.2 liter V8 in my Camaro SS. I aspire to own the C8 Corvette Z06 with the 670 HP 5.5 liter V8. I do not care I can't use all that power on the road without going to jail, but I loved driving it. I loved the power that was on tap if I needed it. I can't stand driving gutless engines.

Two points:

You don't need to crave power alone to be a 'car freak' or 'love cars.' Engines have become so overpowered I'd argue the horsepower wars are over from a practical perspective. You can get 300+ reliable horsepower out of any modern engine now, from three cylinders to 16. It's a technological triumph but power has skyrocketed while roads and tires (and drivers' ability!) have changed relatively little in decades. I am fascinated by high performance cars. But I don't feel threatened by people (correctly) pointing out that they are hugely overpowered and environmentally unsound. That is not an argument against their existence, merely against their prevalence. As a niche category for enthusiasts they are fine, and you don't need to defend that. And as I argued earlier, the problem is not 670HP 'Vettes, it's all the suburban middle class people that insist that they absolutely need a Tahoe for daily driving. Because they don't - but for every 'Vette on the road there are tens of thousands of those Tahoes tooling around.

'Gutless' is a subjective term. You can't draw a line where 'gutless' ends and 'gutsy' begins. Anyway there is no ceiling. Koenigsegg or Bugatti drivers might call your dream Corvette gutless. Whereas a corvette ZR1 owner in 1991 might wonder what the heck you'd do with 670hp on the street. Interwar issues of Autocar praised the performance of many roadsters with substantially less 100HP. A old Lotus Seven with 120HP will make you soil yourself with fear if you drive it on the limit - no reasonable car enthusiast would call one of those 'gutless.' It's simply a question weight ratios, as the '1st Soldier with a Keen Interest in Birds' said in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

And Story Time:

There is a big two lane-wide hairpin turn near where I live, followed by a long gently curving section of road, gradually sweeping up a hill that is sometimes a speed trap. if there is no traffic I can enter it in 3rd gear in my 'gutless' 120HP Fiesta at just the right speed and revs, heel-toe down to 2nd, and pull out right in the middle of my powerband. Whenever I am next to a guy driving something go-fast I zoom through and usually surprise them by wafting by quickly, at which point their brain stem kicks in and they punch it out of the exit to 'show me who's boss', roaring off to - nowhere - while I'm still pootling along at 30mph, chuckling. Big powerful cars are fun but they are not the only way to fly. I can take the same corner much faster in the Fiesta ST but the 'gutless' car is actually more fun in tight spaces.

If I had more money and garage space I'd probably own something truly 'fast', I have no bias against performance cars. I just don't see car enthusiasm as having to be a 'Power Guy vs Earthy Guy' dichotomy, even though it does seem to have spiralled into yet another culture war.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Two points:

You don't need to crave power alone to be a 'car freak' or 'love cars.' Engines have become so overpowered I'd argue the horsepower wars are over from a practical perspective. You can get 300+ reliable horsepower out of any modern engine now, from three cylinders to 16. It's a technological triumph but power has skyrocketed while roads and tires (and drivers' ability!) have changed relatively little in decades. I am fascinated by high performance cars. But I don't feel threatened by people (correctly) pointing out that they are hugely overpowered and environmentally unsound. That is not an argument against their existence, merely against their prevalence. As a niche category for enthusiasts they are fine, and you don't need to defend that. And as I argued earlier, the problem is not 670HP 'Vettes, it's all the suburban middle class people that insist that they absolutely need a Tahoe for daily driving. Because they don't - but for every 'Vette on the road there are tens of thousands of those Tahoes tooling around.

'Gutless' is a subjective term. You can't draw a line where 'gutless' ends and 'gutsy' begins. Anyway there is no ceiling. Koenigsegg or Bugatti drivers might call your dream Corvette gutless. Whereas a corvette ZR1 owner in 1991 might wonder what the heck you'd do with 670hp on the street. Interwar issues of Autocar praised the performance of many roadsters with substantially less 100HP. A old Lotus Seven with 120HP will make you soil yourself with fear if you drive it on the limit - no reasonable car enthusiast would call one of those 'gutless.' It's simply a question weight ratios, as the '1st Soldier with a Keen Interest in Birds' said in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

And Story Time:

There is a big two lane-wide hairpin turn near where I live, followed by a long gently curving section of road, gradually sweeping up a hill that is sometimes a speed trap. if there is no traffic I can enter it in 3rd gear in my 'gutless' 120HP Fiesta at just the right speed and revs, heel-toe down to 2nd, and pull out right in the middle of my powerband. Whenever I am next to a guy driving something go-fast I zoom through and usually surprise them by wafting by quickly, at which point their brain stem kicks in and they punch it out of the exit to 'show me who's boss', roaring off to - nowhere - while I'm still pootling along at 30mph, chuckling. Big powerful cars are fun but they are not the only way to fly. I can take the same corner much faster in the Fiesta ST but the 'gutless' car is actually more fun in tight spaces.

If I had more money and garage space I'd probably own something truly 'fast', I have no bias against performance cars. I just don't see car enthusiasm as having to be a 'Power Guy vs Earthy Guy' dichotomy, even though it does seem to have spiralled into yet another culture war.

I agree with most of this. Driving a good handling gutless 1.4 litre round some twisty bends is a lot more fun than driving 100+ in a straight line. Power to weight ratio is a lot more important than just power.

 

[JamesMay82]

I agree with most of this. Driving a good handling gutless 1.4 litre round some twisty bends is a lot more fun than driving 100+ in a straight line. Power to weight ratio is a lot more important than just power.

Yep! go to any open track day and you will see the Renault Clio and new GR Yaris destroy super cars and the hyper hatches in the corners.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Yep! go to any open track day and you will see the Renault Clio and new GR Yaris destroy super cars and the hyper hatches in the corners.

I used to watch rally cross. That’s a whole load of fun. A bit of tarmac, a bit of grass. Well worth going along to if you ever get the chance.

 

[MacBH928]

Guys have I been scammed?

My dealership told me my tension pulley is damaged (it is, its making noises) and he said we need 2 and its going to cost $424 to replace with labour. I thought the price was OK thinking its a major issue. Went to see ChrisFix on youtube and its like a 10min job and the replacement parts are like $30 maybe. Have I been scammed?

Also a door was squeaking and replacing the car hinge said will cost $132. The car is Lexus, so I thought for an expensive car it sounds about right for dealership work?!

 

[SactoGuy18]

(getting on soapbox) After going on a long drive this weekend, looks like I have to bring out my gripe again: automakers are putting in too low profile tires on even economy vehicles. For example, the top end Nissan Versa SR (known as the Almera outside North America) uses a 205/50R17 size tire, which means you feel every bump on the road even with proper suspension tuning. I drive a 2016 Scion iM (Toyota Aurus in most markets) and with 225/45R17 tires, you really feel every bump given the poor state of some roads in my part of California. (getting off soapbox)

 

[JT2002TJ]

(getting on soapbox) After going on a long drive this weekend, looks like I have to bring out my gripe again: automakers are putting in too low profile tires on even economy vehicles. For example, the top end Nissan Versa SR (known as the Almera outside North America) uses a 205/50R17 size tire, which means you feel every bump on the road even with proper suspension tuning. I drive a 2016 Scion iM (Toyota Aurus in most markets) and with 225/45R17 tires, you really feel every bump given the poor state of some roads in my part of California. (getting off soapbox)

Automakers are giving you better brakes (better than ever before), which requires larger wheels to fit around the calipers. To keep the rolling circumference the same, you end up with lower profile tires. They also do this because of the added weight these vehicles have with all the safety equipment now.

I'll take better braking.

I DO NOT like runflats on cars, that just makes the ride EVEN WORSE. Just figure out a way to mount a spare, even a doughnut and stick to non-runflats.

 

[Apple fanboy]

(getting on soapbox) After going on a long drive this weekend, looks like I have to bring out my gripe again: automakers are putting in too low profile tires on even economy vehicles. For example, the top end Nissan Versa SR (known as the Almera outside North America) uses a 205/50R17 size tire, which means you feel every bump on the road even with proper suspension tuning. I drive a 2016 Scion iM (Toyota Aurus in most markets) and with 225/45R17 tires, you really feel every bump given the poor state of some roads in my part of California. (getting off soapbox)

Bad roads are the universal bane of all car owners no matter what part of the world you are from.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Automakers are giving you better brakes (better than ever before), which requires larger wheels to fit around the calipers. To keep the rolling circumference the same, you end up with lower profile tires. They also do this because of the added weight these vehicles have with all the safety equipment now.

I'll take better braking.

I DO NOT like runflats on cars (I have a runflat car tire on my rear motorcycle wheel), that makes the ride EVEN WORSE. Just figure out a way to mount a spare, even a doughnut and stick to non-runflats.

Agree the brakes are so much better now than they were when I started driving. I’ll take disc brakes over drums any day of the week!
Gosh I sound old!