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MatthewLTL

macrumors 68000
Jan 22, 2015
1,684
18
Rochester, MN
The Astro/Safari was always a separate product. It's rear wheel drive and larger than the Lumina and successors. My uncle had an '88 Astro that he kept for years, and it was a great traveling vehicle. I also spent two weeks putting a bunch of miles on a '96 Astro a couple of years ago during a summer camp job, and it functioned superbly-it could haul a bunch of people or a bunch of stuff.



Where do you get this stuff? The Pathfinder and Explorer are totally separate-abeit competitive-products. When the Pathfinder first came out, it was intended to compete with the Bronco II and the like(the BII was effectively replaced by the Explorer in 1990). The second gen Pathfinder(1995) was unibody, while the Explorer remained body on frame through 2010. With the current generation they are once again competitive as both are FWD unibody "Crossovers."

Yes, the Quest and Villager were the same product for a few years, but that's the extent of the Ford/Nissan relationship as far as I know.



My family has been a dyed in the wool Ford family for many years. Looking at my extended family, we've had multiple Rangers, Escorts, Explorers(across several generations), Tauruses(again, several generations), Focuses, Grand Marquis, Continentals, Town Cars, and even my much beloved LS. No one has had any abnormal trouble, but then my family believes in something called preventative maintenance.

Ford has really ramped up their quality in the past few years, and has been near the top-if not at the top-of reliability lists for probably the last few years.

The past few days I've been looking at an '01 Jaguar XK8(I've talked to Ari a fair bit about it). The XK8/XKR was the first completely new Jaguar model after Ford bought them. Reviews of the early 2000s XKs have consistently praised the reliability of them-something that's pretty much unheard of in a Jaguar. I think that in 2001, JD Power ranked Jaguar #1 in reliability. For a company with a horrible reliability reputation, that's impressive and pretty much everyone "in the know" credits it to the Ford takeover.
The Mercury Villager is a minivan that was manufactured and marketed by Mercury for the model years 1993–2002, in a single generation. Internally designated as model VX54, the Villager was arebadged variant of the Nissan Quest—a product of a joint venture between Ford and Nissan, manufactured at Ford's Ohio Assembly plant in Avon Lake, Ohio.
People aren't stuck back in 2000 like you. If people didn't want any of those features, they wouldn't be offered.

People would still be carrying around Walkmans and flip phones. We'd also be reading paper maps.

As times change, people have to also. Just because you don't like infotainment systems doesn't mean they are distractions. Audi MMI/BMW iDrive are some of the best pieces of technology out there. They work great and improve the driving experience IMO.



What? The Toyota Entune system is one of the most idiot-proof systems out there. If my 60-year old father can pick it up in a week, you know it's easy to use...

Just because the commercials say it comes with those features doesn't mean they all do. In 2015, cars have trim levels. Your friend bought a base-model RAV4. He shouldn't be expecting leather, NAV, sunroof, etc. If he wants that, he's gotta pay for it.
1. I never said that. I simply said that not EVERYONE would want it, Would my 85 year old grandfater want it? nope. Would my 50 year old mother want it? nope. Not EVERYONE wants them, I never said no one did.
2. Some still do, I see people still using flip phones, just because it's a bogus smartphone era, doesn't mean EVERY wants one or needs one, nor does it make them a freak of nature because they DON'T have one. They still sell paper maps at gas stations, so obviously, people still use them, they still have "Map" Lights in cars. even 2015 ones, so obviously people use them.
3. It has nothing to do with not liking it, I never said I didn't like them. I've never used them, and don't want to. It IS just a distraction behind the wheel, and now cars having internet in them? Seriously?
4. It's a SHE, and it's in her dad's name, he gave it to her because her stepmom didn't want it. Her DAD didn't want GPS or anything extra, didn't ask why, probably because it's wasted money to do so.
Because you have to adapt to competition.

If you sit around and stay complacent, you end up like Dodge/Chrysler.


You don't need to travel to use GPS. I know the roads, yet I still use Google Maps/Waze on my iPhone. Why? Changing road conditions. Blocked streets, construction, traffic, etc.
I never said you don't need GPS I stated It doesn't need to be BUILT IN, what's the point? Maps for the car wont be offered after X number of years, you have to pay $200+ extra for the OEM GPS (you can buy a seperate GPS unit for $60, or use your phone's GPS.
Even if I know exactly where I'm going, I still like to use the GPS when I'm traveling for ETA and other information.

Plus, as you said, it can be a huge help when navigating around a familiar area if there's a traffic back-up or whatever else. I know alternate routes in downtown Louisville pretty well, but with ongoing major construction I often find myself twisted around in all manner of ways with things like closed on-ramps and underpasses. Not too long ago, I was trying to get on I-65N at about 4:00 in the morning(start of a road trip). Because a lot of construction is done overnight, I found 3 on ramps in a row which I would have normally used closed-GPS saved my rear end.
If a way I go is closed, I just go past it, GPS reroutes me to the next turn, simple.
 

A.Goldberg

macrumors 68030
Jan 31, 2015
2,549
9,715
Boston
@MatthewLTL did you read @bunnspecial 's post? He said "Yes, the Quest and Villager were the same product for a few years, but that's the extent of the Ford/Nissan relationship as far as I know."

1. I never said that. I simply said that not EVERYONE would want it, Would my 85 year old grandfater want it? nope. Would my 50 year old mother want it? nope. Not EVERYONE wants them, I never said no one did.
Matt, before this gets hashed out any further, this is a complete non-issue. The thing about all this anti-in-dash navigation whining is that you are not forced into buying a GPS in your car. Unless you're buying a luxury vehicle or a top end trim package, navigation is an option on the overwhelming majority of cars. Quite frankly, and not be be rude, even if all cars came standard with navigation, I don't think this would still have any affect on you personally any time soon.

Maps for the car wont be offered after X number of years, you have to pay $200+ extra for the OEM GPS (you can buy a seperate GPS unit for $60, or use your phone's GPS.
We've been through this discussion before, but most cars still have GPS map updates available. The future of the GPS is internet based though which is updated instantly, so we're already talking about obsolete technology here. I'm curious to know though what car has a GPS upgrade for $200? $2000 is a more reasonable number.
 

MatthewLTL

macrumors 68000
Jan 22, 2015
1,684
18
Rochester, MN
@MatthewLTL did you read @bunnspecial 's post? He said "Yes, the Quest and Villager were the same product for a few years, but that's the extent of the Ford/Nissan relationship as far as I know."


Matt, before this gets hashed out any further, this is a complete non-issue. The thing about all this anti-in-dash navigation whining is that you are not forced into buying a GPS in your car. Unless you're buying a luxury vehicle or a top end trim package, navigation is an option on the overwhelming majority of cars. Quite frankly, and not be be rude, even if all cars came standard with navigation, I don't think this would still have any affect on you personally any time soon.


We've been through this discussion before, but most cars still have GPS map updates available. The future of the GPS is internet based though which is updated instantly, so we're already talking about obsolete technology here. I'm curious to know though what car has a GPS upgrade for $200? $2000 is a more reasonable number.
1. I would LOVE built in navigation, saves dash space. Problem is GPS Stereos cost several hundred dollars. And unfortunately, all the GPS stereos on the market come with all this extra ******** that I have no use for.
2. Again, not everyone has a smartphone.
3. $200, $2000, it's highway robbery either way!
 

A.Goldberg

macrumors 68030
Jan 31, 2015
2,549
9,715
Boston
1. I would LOVE built in navigation, saves dash space. Problem is GPS Stereos cost several hundred dollars. And unfortunately, all the GPS stereos on the market come with all this extra ******** that I have no use for.
2. Again, not everyone has a smartphone.
3. $200, $2000, it's highway robbery either way!
Not every car needs a smartphone to integrate cellular data. Audis for example have their own cellular antenna. No smartphone required.
 

Muscle Master

macrumors 6502a
Oct 15, 2010
581
113
Philadelphia
This thread is less meaningful than it was before I stop posting a month and a half ago smh... Still talking about Daewoos I see

Anyway.. As much as I love my 2012 Chevy Cruze LTZ... And it's awesome practicality it offers me, it's just too small for me now, moving up in size, I'm left with few options, and as much as a die hard Chevy man I am let a alone Pro American.. There are 4 cars that make my list :
Mazda 6
Chevy Malibu
Ford Fusion
Chrysler 200

And I'm really leaning towards the Mazda 6, I'm planing to buy used from Carmax in the '14-'15 model years. as nice as the Fusion is, I just can't get over that interior or any ford for that matter. ZF botched the 9-Speed transmission and as nice as the 200 is, good interior, awd, etc.. It's a headache I rather avoid.. Hope they nix the 9speed for the 8.

The Chevy Malibu... I can get a fully loaded LTZ for $18,000 with less than 30k miles... All the creature comforts you want and then some. Direct injected 4 cylinder and bulletproof transmission but it has as much interior volume as my Cuze, mileage is average at best and everyone has one. So that leads the 2014/15 Mazda 6

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1440046226.544737.jpg


Carmax has one for $26,000, 10k mile on the dot.. It's a 2014 Grand Touring and I really like this car. It has everything I wanted. Reviews are excellent and it even bested the Honda Accord

Any thoughts
 

MatthewLTL

macrumors 68000
Jan 22, 2015
1,684
18
Rochester, MN
Not every car needs a smartphone to integrate cellular data. Audis for example have their own cellular antenna. No smartphone required.
Yea, and how much is the data plan for it?
This thread is less meaningful than it was before I stop posting a month and a half ago smh... Still talking about Daewoos I see

Anyway.. As much as I love my 2012 Chevy Cruze LTZ... And it's awesome practicality it offers me, it's just too small for me now, moving up in size, I'm left with few options, and as much as a die hard Chevy man I am let a alone Pro American.. There are 4 cars that make my list :
Mazda 6
Chevy Malibu
Ford Fusion
Chrysler 200

And I'm really leaning towards the Mazda 6, I'm planing to buy used from Carmax in the '14-'15 model years. as nice as the Fusion is, I just can't get over that interior or any ford for that matter. ZF botched the 9-Speed transmission and as nice as the 200 is, good interior, awd, etc.. It's a headache I rather avoid.. Hope they nix the 9speed for the 8.

The Chevy Malibu... I can get a fully loaded LTZ for $18,000 with less than 30k miles... All the creature comforts you want and then some. Direct injected 4 cylinder and bulletproof transmission but it has as much interior volume as my Cuze, mileage is average at best and everyone has one. So that leads the 2014/15 Mazda 6

View attachment 576219

Carmax has one for $26,000, 10k mile on the dot.. It's a 2014 Grand Touring and I really like this car. It has everything I wanted. Reviews are excellent and it even bested the Honda Accord

Any thoughts

I wasn't aware you drive a Daewoo :D. The Malibu, I don't think, is any bigger of a car. I think the Impala, Malibu and the Cruze are the same size. That Is true though, I see more Malibu's and Cruze's and Impala's than i see of anything else.
 

2298754

Cancelled
Jun 21, 2010
4,890
941
This thread is less meaningful than it was before I stop posting a month and a half ago smh... Still talking about Daewoos I see

Anyway.. As much as I love my 2012 Chevy Cruze LTZ... And it's awesome practicality it offers me, it's just too small for me now, moving up in size, I'm left with few options, and as much as a die hard Chevy man I am let a alone Pro American.. There are 4 cars that make my list :
Mazda 6
Chevy Malibu
Ford Fusion
Chrysler 200

And I'm really leaning towards the Mazda 6, I'm planing to buy used from Carmax in the '14-'15 model years. as nice as the Fusion is, I just can't get over that interior or any ford for that matter. ZF botched the 9-Speed transmission and as nice as the 200 is, good interior, awd, etc.. It's a headache I rather avoid.. Hope they nix the 9speed for the 8.

The Chevy Malibu... I can get a fully loaded LTZ for $18,000 with less than 30k miles... All the creature comforts you want and then some. Direct injected 4 cylinder and bulletproof transmission but it has as much interior volume as my Cuze, mileage is average at best and everyone has one. So that leads the 2014/15 Mazda 6

View attachment 576219

Carmax has one for $26,000, 10k mile on the dot.. It's a 2014 Grand Touring and I really like this car. It has everything I wanted. Reviews are excellent and it even bested the Honda Accord

Any thoughts
Between your choices, I'd highly suggest a Mazda 6. It's the best car in its class. Best interior, looks great, drives well. I can't think of a single bad thing to say about the 6.

For $26k, you can get into a new Mazda 6, so I'd go that route. You should be able to get a NEW GT trim 6 for around that!

Skip the 200. My buddy is a MOPAR tech and I've heard too many bad things about that car. It looks great, but the rest of it is just junk. Especially the 9 speed.

If you're a Chevy fan, the Malibu is fine. I like the looks of the Fusion, but the interior volume is tiny, the EcoBoost engines get lackluster MPGs, and Sync never works right.
 
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2298754

Cancelled
Jun 21, 2010
4,890
941
Yea, and how much is the data plan for it?
.
Does it really matter how much it is per month?

It's like $20-40 a month depending on how much data you want. Nothing to worry about... Especially if you're buying a $50k Audi anyways...

All new GMs have built in LTE modems too. Provides the same functionality as Audi Connect.

Not every car needs a smartphone to integrate cellular data. Audis for example have their own cellular antenna. No smartphone required.
And it works fantastic (besides the fact that the older Audis used TMobile's network, which has poor coverage anyways)

Anyone who has driven a current Audi has probably seen their Google Maps integration into the MMI system. Probably the best system in the business with iDrive right behind

I can't wait to see where connected car tech goes!

We've been through this discussion before, but most cars still have GPS map updates available. The future of the GPS is internet based though which is updated instantly, so we're already talking about obsolete technology here. I'm curious to know though what car has a GPS upgrade for $200? $2000 is a more reasonable number.
What's nice is that more and more cars are getting NAV standard these days. Most BMWs at or above the 5 series have it standard. Ignoring the base trim of Toyotas, vast majority of their cars come with NAV standard.

On the topic of map updates, I like where everyone is going. Audi, Volvo, BMW, and Benz throw in free map updates for a few years post purchase on their new models, and Audi/BMW update maps over the air now.
 
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bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,352
6,495
Kentucky
If you're a Chevy fan, the Malibu is fine. I like the looks of the Fusion, but the interior volume is tiny, the EcoBoost engines get lackluster MPGs, and Sync never works right.

I've mentioned this before, but I've not really had an issue with Sync in my time using it.

It's fairly unintuitive(what could you expect from Microsoft?) but now that I know my way around it I don't really have an issue. I think that's probably the key to many of these systems, although admittedly some are better than others(I had no issue finding my way around iDrive in a 20 minute test drive, for example).

I don't drive my dad's MKZ that often, but have no trouble finding my way around it the once a month or so I do drive the car.

I can say that it has never failed to pick up my phone every time I've sat down in the car, provided that Bluetooth is on.
 

A.Goldberg

macrumors 68030
Jan 31, 2015
2,549
9,715
Boston
Yea, and how much is the data plan for it?


I wasn't aware you drive a Daewoo :D. The Malibu, I don't think, is any bigger of a car. I think the Impala, Malibu and the Cruze are the same size. That Is true though, I see more Malibu's and Cruze's and Impala's than i see of anything else.

I believe $10 a month or less if pre-purchased for the basic data plan through AT&T. Not too much considering dropping $50,000-100,000+ on a car. It can also function as a hot spot.
 

yg17

macrumors Pentium
Aug 1, 2004
15,028
3,003
St. Louis, MO
I hate Sync. My experience with it as follows:

Herts gives me a Fiesta, tells me which spot it's parked in. I find a Fiesta looking car in what I thought was the parking spot number. I get in, spend 15 minutes getting my phone paired with the ****** Sync system so I can hear music and guidance from Google Maps nav. Drive to the exit where they check the paperwork. I wasn't in a Fiesta. I was in a Focus. Son of a bitch.

Turn around, go back to the spot I drove out of and there was the Fiesta parked next to it. I got in, spent another 15 minutes pairing my phone because it's the most god damn unintuitive system I've ever seen and my painful experience pairing it on the Focus taught me nothing. Finally get it paired and spent the rest of the long weekend with the rental wondering how a dual clutch transmission can take 17 seconds to change gear.

tl;dr: I can't read numbers, Sync sucks and the Fiesta's DCT is awful.
 

2298754

Cancelled
Jun 21, 2010
4,890
941
I hate Sync. My experience with it as follows:

Herts gives me a Fiesta, tells me which spot it's parked in. I find a Fiesta looking car in what I thought was the parking spot number. I get in, spend 15 minutes getting my phone paired with the ****** Sync system so I can hear music and guidance from Google Maps nav. Drive to the exit where they check the paperwork. I wasn't in a Fiesta. I was in a Focus. Son of a bitch.

Turn around, go back to the spot I drove out of and there was the Fiesta parked next to it. I got in, spent another 15 minutes pairing my phone because it's the most god damn unintuitive system I've ever seen and my painful experience pairing it on the Focus taught me nothing. Finally get it paired and spent the rest of the long weekend with the rental wondering how a dual clutch transmission can take 17 seconds to change gear.

tl;dr: I can't read numbers, Sync sucks and the Fiesta's DCT is awful.
This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the Fiesta, Fusion, and Focus. The DCT is junk and the base SYNC system is TERRIBLE. It makes no sense. Always takes me forever to sync my phone to the rentals.

The higher end Fords with MFT are better, but the system still lags like an early Android device.
 

2298754

Cancelled
Jun 21, 2010
4,890
941
I believe $10 a month or less if pre-purchased for the basic data plan through AT&T. Not too much considering dropping $50,000-100,000+ on a car. It can also function as a hot spot.
Yeah, it's pretty cheap.

You can either add it to your AT&T shared data plan or get a long term bucket of data.

bb5e8c88e285f326abdea46502cbfc4f.jpg
 

yg17

macrumors Pentium
Aug 1, 2004
15,028
3,003
St. Louis, MO
I still don't get the point of the car being a mobile hotspot. Smartphone plus car charger works just as well and doesn't cost anything extra a month.
 

Suture

macrumors 65816
Feb 22, 2007
1,003
213
I still don't get the point of the car being a mobile hotspot. Smartphone plus car charger works just as well and doesn't cost anything extra a month.

I agree. Some companies (Toyota) at one point even considered charging you for using data you already paid for. For example, on my 2012 Prius (with Entune), you were given 3 years of Entune for free. Entune uses your own data connection provided by your phone. After that, you had to sign up with a plan ton continue using it -- whereas your phone only provided the data connection. They quickly dumped that idea and made it free. Without it, you wouldn't get to use Bing traffic, Pandora One, etc. -- even if you had already paid for Pandora One.

We're all connecting our phones anyway for Bluetooth; not sure I see the point in having the car be a hotspot -- but I never really looked much into it, so I am certainly open to the idea of being ignorant :)
 

2298754

Cancelled
Jun 21, 2010
4,890
941
I still don't get the point of the car being a mobile hotspot. Smartphone plus car charger works just as well and doesn't cost anything extra a month.
I never understood either. I paid for the data because of the NAV, but if I wanted to use it on my cell phone, I'd go buy a MiFi or use my iPhone as a hotspot.

Audi used TMobile earlier and the service was junk. Thank god they switched to AT&T.

On that note, why do people still pay for rear seat entertainment systems? A MiFi plus two iPads are a better solution.
 

A.Goldberg

macrumors 68030
Jan 31, 2015
2,549
9,715
Boston
I never understood either. I paid for the data because of the NAV, but if I wanted to use it on my cell phone, I'd go buy a MiFi or use my iPhone as a hotspot.

Audi used TMobile earlier and the service was junk. Thank god they switched to AT&T.

On that note, why do people still pay for rear seat entertainment systems? A MiFi plus two iPads are a better solution.

I too don't really see the big attraction of a WiFi hotspot in a car. Maybe the thought is the kids can use their laptops and iPads in the back seat? It doesn't sound overly practical though. It might be nice for a road trip, but to and from soccer practice- not so much.

I do like Toyotas deal of connecting through the smartphone. It's far more economical.

I imagine Audi used T-mobile because they're big in Europe. I'd prefer they offered Verizon, but AT&T is still a better choice than T-Mobile, at least around here. That said, everyone with ATT still has terrible service in Brookline.
 

2298754

Cancelled
Jun 21, 2010
4,890
941
I do like Toyotas deal of connecting through the smartphone. It's far more economical.

Yeah, I like that better, but they force you to use the cable for iOS devices. Androids can do everything over BT. Much more seamless.

But yes, the hotspot only makes sense for road trips and even then, most kids these days have smartphones, so they don't need it. Overall, a very useless feature.

I imagine Audi used T-mobile because they're big in Europe. I'd prefer they offered Verizon, but AT&T is still a better choice than T-Mobile, at least around here. That said, everyone with ATT still has terrible service in Brookline.
Benz uses Verizon I think. BMW and Audi use AT&T. They're fantastic on my side of Brookline, but if you really want to see poor service in our area, grab a Sprint device. You walk into any building on Harvard or by Coolidge and you're on 1x lol
 

2298754

Cancelled
Jun 21, 2010
4,890
941
Too bad they don't just put an unlocked SIM card slot somewhere in the car so you can use whichever provider you want.
The SIM card slot IS unlocked on Audis. I was able to throw in an AT&T SIM, but it only got EDGE because the hardware didn't support AT&T's HSPA bands. Pretty half assed cellular modem IMO.

The SIM slot for the other OEMs is hidden away.
 

bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,352
6,495
Kentucky
This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the Fiesta, Fusion, and Focus. The DCT is junk and the base SYNC system is TERRIBLE. It makes no sense. Always takes me forever to sync my phone to the rentals.

The higher end Fords with MFT are better, but the system still lags like an early Android device.

Perhaps my(overall) positive experience is due to the fact that

1. I'm always using it in the same car, so it just syncs when I start the car(or when I'm a passenger) and don't have to mess around with it. I do recall the initial set up being a pain, as well as it being a similar pain when I got my new iPhone back in May.

2. As I mentioned, I'm using it in a Lincoln and not a Ford, so I suspect that it has the higher end system(although have never used the "base" system so can't compare).

I will grant that-as I said-it's fairly non-intuitive but I can use it without much trouble now. It's sort of like what I use to do every time I upgraded Windows :) .
 

AustinIllini

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,699
10,567
Austin, TX
I too don't really see the big attraction of a WiFi hotspot in a car. Maybe the thought is the kids can use their laptops and iPads in the back seat? It doesn't sound overly practical though. It might be nice for a road trip, but to and from soccer practice- not so much.

I do like Toyotas deal of connecting through the smartphone. It's far more economical.

I imagine Audi used T-mobile because they're big in Europe. I'd prefer they offered Verizon, but AT&T is still a better choice than T-Mobile, at least around here. That said, everyone with ATT still has terrible service in Brookline.
You don't see it because you're informed. The truth is, most people don't know better and think the car does something special and can't figure out their Wi-Fi hot spot
 
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