iPad Pro The end of the iPad era for me, the dawn of M1 era

[spiderman0616]

I charge mine overnight when it goes below 50%. That way, I haven't needed to plug it in while I'm using it.

Yeah, I just look at the battery gauge so infrequently because it never seems to go down!

 

[AutomaticApple]

How thin is the keyboard section of the fanless M1 MBA?

Fairly thin, but the chassis doesnt have a built-in display with all sorts of display components crammed in.

 

[scupking]

The problem now is the iPad Pro cost to much. The 12.9 should start at $749 with 256gbs of storage since it doesn’t come with a keyboard or pen.

 

[Seanm87]

I just got an M1 MacBook Air but i'll still be keeping the iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard. I think there's a use case for both. I still love the touch input on the iPad and its better for consuming content when lying in bed.

I certainly don't need both but no harm in having them both for different tasks.

 

[007p]

Thats the part that I'm curious about. Do people actually want an "iPad Laptop" or do they simply want their laptop programs available on an iPad.

Because as it is then the iPad is a product of compromise:
- Laptop Size but runs a Phone OS
- Many Apps but they aren't full versions
- Incredible Power but no software that uses that power
- Its got a file system but dont be surprised if it corrupts your files
- Multitasking but un-intuitive and awkward
- ARM Mac Day1 all the pro apps, iPad Year 10 no pro apps
- Built around Apple Ecosystem but relies on 3rd party for software

So if most users accept that the iPad isn't a laptop then what do they actually want the future of the iPad to be? Personally, I dont think people want the iPad to become a Mac. They simply want a software/OS experience that matches the incredible hardware and are making the (incorrect?) assumption that MacOS is the answer when the real solution is for Apple to make "Pro software" for the iPad Pro.

I want an iPad that can actually function as a laptop if / when I need it to. Given the main use case an iPad, I always have one on me. I can’t say the same about a laptop because it’s added weight for something I might not even need. At the moment, if I have do anything remote, I don’t carry an additional computer with me, just a small mouse, keyboard and use a Remote Desktop app. It would be great to no longer need to use Remote Desktop, but hey, I’ll just vote with my wallet and never buy a MacBook or even another iPad (at least for a long time - don’t need hardware spec bumps if all I need power for is replaced by remoting to an actual capable operating system).

As for macOS on iPad, I don’t necessarily want that, but you said it yourself, it’s taken them 10 years to achieve well...not much. macOS on an iPad is the fastest way to get a decent operating system on an iPad that has a keyboard / mouse. I’m not saying macOS has to suddenly be primary touch though. Little should be done on macOS to support it, rather the iPad should utilise additional hardware to make it work, I.e mouse/keyboard.

I don’t think the iPad(OS) will ever get there to be honest. My hope now is that the new Mac chips lead to new form factors, and just maybe, one will be something closer to an iPad than the current old MacBook design...

 

[FranApple]

I want an iPad that can actually function as a laptop if / when I need it to. Given the main use case an iPad, I always have one on me. I can’t say the same about a laptop because it’s added weight for something I might not even need. At the moment, if I have do anything remote, I don’t carry an additional computer with me, just a small mouse, keyboard and use a Remote Desktop app. It would be great to no longer need to use Remote Desktop, but hey, I’ll just vote with my wallet and never buy a MacBook or even another iPad (at least for a long time - don’t need hardware spec bumps if all I need power for is replaced by remoting to an actual capable operating system).

As for macOS on iPad, I don’t necessarily want that, but you said it yourself, it’s taken them 10 years to achieve well...not much. macOS on an iPad is the fastest way to get a decent operating system on an iPad that has a keyboard / mouse. I’m not saying macOS has to suddenly be primary touch though. Little should be done on macOS to support it, rather the iPad should utilise additional hardware to make it work, I.e mouse/keyboard.

I don’t think the iPad(OS) will ever get there to be honest. My hope now is that the new Mac chips lead to new form factors, and just maybe, one will be something closer to an iPad than the current old MacBook design...

I have to think that Apple will come out with something akin to the 12" MacBook from a few years back. An M1 chip in that would honestly be an instant winner for so many people.

 

[MiamiBeach]

I have to think that Apple will come out with something akin to the 12" MacBook from a few years back. An M1 chip in that would honestly be an instant winner for so many people.

I really hope they release an M1 MacBook. The 12” MacBook has been my go to machine since I bought it. Even though I am using a base 2015 model, it still does everything I need it to and still gets 6+ hours on the battery.

 

[Digitalguy]

I really hope they release an M1 MacBook. The 12” MacBook has been my go to machine since I bought it. Even though I am using a base 2015 model, it still does everything I need it to and still gets 6+ hours on the battery.

I am waiting for that too. And I really hope it could have cellular, that's another thing that Macs lack... I am not interested in the macbook air, it's heavier than my macbook air 11, let alone my windows laptop (which is itself lighter than the old macbook 12...). Macbook 12 with the great battery and power of M1 (and maybe cellular as a bonus) would be an instant buy.

 

[MiamiBeach]

I am waiting for that too. And I really hope it could have cellular, that's another thing that Macs lack... I am not interested in the macbook air, it's heavier than my macbook air 11, let alone my windows laptop (which is itself lighter than the old macbook 12...). Macbook 12 with the great battery and power of M1 (and maybe cellular as a bonus) would be an instant buy.

Agreed, I couldn’t get used to the size/weight difference of the Air so I sold it and kept my MacBook.
I would probably take my MacBook more places with me if cellular was available.

I had an old Dell computer around 2010 that had a spot for a SIM card. Was very useful for travel as I never liked to sign in to banking/financial websites on public wifi. Always used cellular for that.

 

[Mainsail]

For all but the base model, the iPad, with apple accessories, is at least as expensive as the M1 MBA, and in many cases, more expensive. I suppose there are some folks that can get by with just a base iPad only, but most of the posts that I see of people that are all in with iPad have selected the Pro models, which are pretty expensive.

It is just very difficult to beat the versatility and productivity of a good laptop, and the M1 MBA is a great laptop.

 

[spiderman0616]

For all but the base model, the iPad, with apple accessories, is at least as expensive as the M1 MBA, and in many cases, more expensive. I suppose there are some folks that can get by with just a base iPad only, but most of the posts that I see of people that are all in with iPad have selected the Pro models, which are pretty expensive.

It is just very difficult to beat the versatility and productivity of a good laptop, and the M1 MBA is a great laptop.

Can't say it much more concisely than that. The iPad Pro made total sense to me as my main large screen device for a long time, but in my opinion its drawbacks suddenly far outweigh its benefits now that M chip Macs exist. The 12.9" iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard was always thicker and heavier than the Macbook Air or Pro, but now it also has half the battery life and 2 year old chip technology. So if you're not a big Pencil user and use your iPad mostly as a laptop (as I had started to do lately while the Pencil lay dormant most of the time) it just doesn't make sense financially or specs wise anymore. And even when they do give it a chip upgrade, there is still going to be a pretty convincing list of reasons NOT to buy a decked out iPad Pro rather than a base model MacBook Air.

That's my long winded way of saying that the iPad Pro made total sense to me as my main laptop/big screen Apple device all the way up until it suddenly didn't.

 

[KittyKatta]

The problem now is the iPad Pro cost to much. The 12.9 should start at $749 with 256gbs of storage since it doesn’t come with a keyboard or pen.

Yeah, it seems like the next iPad has to introduce a really compelling feature to justify the next price hike or they need to rethink the entire pricing structure for the iPad line.

$299 iPad 8
$599 iPad Air 4
$749 iPad Pro 11
$999 iPad Pro 12.9

$999 MacBook Air
$1299 MacBook Pro 13

As it is then you could buy a MacBook AND an iPad for the same price as an iPad Pro12.9 + Magic Keyboard.

 

[C. Robert]

Too me the M1 just feels like a boring Mac. There good and if you have a reason to use one then I prefer over a pc but they’re boring. I enjoy using an iPad and it’s fun. But to each his own.

 

[Never mind]

For me with the iPad and now the new MacBook Air, I don’t look at it being boring, ever. It does everything I need to do so what else does it have to do to make it unboring? I will get rid of my 11 inch MacBook Pro for a iPad mini when they come out and both of them, iPad mini and the MacBook air M1 are perfect for me.

 

[BigMcGuire]

For me with the iPad and now the new MacBook Air, I don’t look at it being boring, ever. It does everything I need to do so what else does it have to do to make it unboring? I will get rid of my 11 inch MacBook Pro for a iPad mini when they come out and both of them, iPad mini and the MacBook air M1 are perfect for me.

Agreed. I see my near future as this. iPad mini and MBP. Of course iPhone but... nothing beats having a reading device.

 

[subjonas]

Agree that for this hybrid device to make sense, there should no big compromises either way with functionality. However I do not want to have multiple devices that do just 15 % something different from each other. This is too high maintenance in terms of tech and I do not find it optimal to be honest.

Yes redundancy is not ideal, and we try to reduce it as much as possible, but I just don’t think redundancy in itself is a problem that Apple tries to solve. I think Apple tries to make the best laptop or tablet or phone etc. that they can, and aren’t very concerned with functional overlap. If anything, they probably see functional overlap as mostly a good thing because it lets users get the most out of each device. So as such, I don’t think they’ll combine devices just to get rid of redundancy. UNLESS they feel the pressure of huge demand for such a device. That was kind of the case for phablets vs. smartphone + tablet, which they resisted until demand became too great to ignore.

It depends on how it is done. I have an old Asus hybrid that is not perfect bit it is done in different way compared to iPads because:

• The tablet has small storage base + SD card
• The keyboard has 500 GB storage
• Tablet can be detached completely from the keyboard

This way the keyboard is still heavier than the tablet, but the tablet can function on its own with its storage capacity.

So yes if it is a hybrid device, there should be a choice on where some parts are put (keyboard base or tablet).

The reasons I do not use this device are two:

1. RAM is just 4 GB
2. Pencil support in Windows IMO is below Pencil support in iOS. No palm rejection is a huge downside.

I think as far as weight distribution, the problem is that there will always be a bare minimum amount of components that the tablet portion needs (battery, chips, touch sensors, etc) that will always make it more top heavy than a very thin laptop display. Increasing the weight of the keyboard base helps stabilize but increases the overall weight, and decreasing the tablet weight will probably come at the cost of battery life (as in the case of the Surface Book).

I actually do not think that touch input is superior or the greatest thing ever. There are cases where touch input is superior to mouse input, but there are also cases where mouse input makes much more sense. I think that with wanting certain apps on an iPad we make way too many compromises to make them work on touch and the end result is not great.

Even take LumaFusion. Love the app but I do not think that it needs touch input to be great. On the contrary. I quite often have to use the pencil as pointing device because my finger cannot be precise enough to choose the point for videos split. I use the keyboard as a case anyway because I don't need the device to be laying on the table when I work on video edits as this would only lead to neck pain. So I am really not sure why LumaFusion needs the touch screen or use the touch input as primary. I get it on an iPhone and say iPod but on an iPad? Not working properly.

Touch is not panacea and is not the answer for everything. For me having hybrid device also makes us evaluate when we need touch and when touch is not the appropriate way to go.

I agree, touch is not the end all, and I don’t think the average user is dying to use touch for everything. Like you said, it’s not a good tool for pinpoint accuracy. Also as soon as a physical keyboard is introduced, or if the screen is very large, I think most people want to use a cursor pointer for ergonomic reasons.

Well if we have to be honest those devices lead to compromises too. Not for mainstream, but for pros. No matter what the phone sensor would not give me DSLR photo quality because it cannot have the sensor of the DSLR. And the RAW files themselves do not hold the same info as the DSLR RAW files and even if you had RAW files, you do not have a lot of apps on the phone that can take advantage of the RAW files. What I am saying is that this device had enough compromises and drawbacks but they are not for the general folks out there. There is one huge thing that has as inmprovement though - one charging but half battery life as you said.

Yeah the smartphone camera really just solved a problem for very casual photo takers. Pros still need their dslrs. Bu you’re right about battery life being reduced. But that was a disadvantage that was apparently outweighed by the advantages for most. I bring a battery phone case when I go on a trip and know I’m going to be taking lots of pictures, which is better than bringing a whole other camera. I imagine others do the same or bring portable batteries. But actually I’ve been seriously considering buying a good dedicated point and shoot camera, mainly because great optical zoom is always something I’ve wanted that phone cameras have been very slow to adopt so far.

I see your point. My idea of a hybrid device to be honest is pure productivity. I am not focused on media consumption or playing games (where indeed a smaller device makes more sense). I am focused on pencil usage and where creativity touches productivity. There are people that need to sketch out ideas for work and for this having a tablet with pencil support is great. Those people however quite often need also quite powerful software to make this sketch mainstream in the sense of sharing it with others and being able to collaborate with others. For that I do not see touch input or tablet OS being enough.

So for me it is more about simplifying those workflows where you need to do something with pencil on the tablet factor and then transfer it to laptop/desktop machine (easy, quick, without the need of external factors like location, network and brand compatibility) to continue the work.

It seems we’re very similar. I too just want to use pen/pencil input with certain Mac productively/work programs. But I see an OS/form factor hybrid as being roundabout in accomplishing this. Ultimately, I really just want a form factor-only hybrid, ie. a MacBook that folds the keyboard back for pencil input. (And I’ve wanted this before iPad’s ever existed.)

 

[subjonas]

Thats the part that I'm curious about. Do people actually want an "iPad Laptop" or do they simply want their laptop programs available on an iPad.

Because as it is then the iPad is a product of compromise:
- Laptop Size but runs a Phone OS
- Many Apps but they aren't full versions
- Incredible Power but no software that uses that power
- Its got a file system but dont be surprised if it corrupts your files
- Multitasking but un-intuitive and awkward
- ARM Mac Day1 all the pro apps, iPad Year 10 no pro apps
- Built around Apple Ecosystem but relies on 3rd party for software

So if most users accept that the iPad isn't a laptop then what do they actually want the future of the iPad to be? Personally, I dont think people want the iPad to become a Mac. They simply want a software/OS experience that matches the incredible hardware and are making the (incorrect?) assumption that MacOS is the answer when the real solution is for Apple to make "Pro software" for the iPad Pro.

Yeah I think bringing Mac software to iPad is the shortcut some/many people want, rather than waiting for iPad software to become on par. The thing is, I’m not sure which or if either is likely. Apple seems to have a different vision of the iPad altogether than what tech enthusiasts desire. It was made for the everyperson first and foremost, for a common set of needs—mostly consumption and a base level of productivity. Apple has expanded that boundary of productivity, but very incrementally. It has added some laptop-like functionality, but as an option. The fact that it is a compromised laptop as you pointed out, tells that Apple doesn’t consider it a laptop, but still an iPad. So they seem to have little interest in making the iPad on par with the Mac, otherwise they could have done much more in the past decade of its existence, which is an eternity in tech. I don’t know the technical implications, but perhaps doing so would take away from its core identity as the everyperson’s device. I do think touch input doesn’t lend itself well to certain productivity uses. In any case, I think Apple sees the Mac as the best productivity device, and the iPad as the best everyperson device, and they have little to no motivation to try to lump them together. If Windows hybrids ever take large enough market share like Samsung phablets did before the iPhone 6, Apple will probably bite, but so far it’s apparently too compromised and/or there’s too little demand.

 

[subjonas]

Seems to me it’s pretty simple to do well. It’s a touchscreen tablet that can be docked into a docking enclosure to use a full-size monitor, keyboard and mouse. Out of the dock it’s a tablet and can also be ensconced in a keyboard case like lots of us use now (like the Magic Keyboard). Bonus points if it changes interfaces between OS/iPadOS mouse/touch when docked/undocked.

That’s just it though, the issue is that using the iPad as a tablet is great, but using it as a laptop with the magic keyboard is not as good as using a MacBook (iPad +MK is heavier, less stable). External monitor support is a different thing since that keeps you anchored to a desk. I believe the question was can a hybrid be done with no compromises, and the answer is no, everything has compromises, and the more you combine devices, the more compromises are created. Just differing opinion as to which compromises are acceptable and worth it.

I just bought a surface book 2 15 (new at a big discount). What the clipboard it would need to be a good tablet is a bigger battery (well it lasts more than my old iPad 12.9) and at least one port.... Other that that it's extremely light for a 15in tablet (same weight as a surface pro 12.3). If Apple made an iPad pro this size and this light, I would buy it immediately...

But if it needs a bigger battery that means it will be heavier. Can’t have it all, unfortunately.

I want an iPad that can actually function as a laptop if / when I need it to. Given the main use case an iPad, I always have one on me. I can’t say the same about a laptop because it’s added weight for something I might not even need. At the moment, if I have do anything remote, I don’t carry an additional computer with me, just a small mouse, keyboard and use a Remote Desktop app. It would be great to no longer need to use Remote Desktop, but hey, I’ll just vote with my wallet and never buy a MacBook or even another iPad (at least for a long time - don’t need hardware spec bumps if all I need power for is replaced by remoting to an actual capable operating system).

As for macOS on iPad, I don’t necessarily want that, but you said it yourself, it’s taken them 10 years to achieve well...not much. macOS on an iPad is the fastest way to get a decent operating system on an iPad that has a keyboard / mouse. I’m not saying macOS has to suddenly be primary touch though. Little should be done on macOS to support it, rather the iPad should utilise additional hardware to make it work, I.e mouse/keyboard.

I don’t think the iPad(OS) will ever get there to be honest. My hope now is that the new Mac chips lead to new form factors, and just maybe, one will be something closer to an iPad than the current old MacBook design...

I agree, after 10 years I think the iPad would look very different today if it was intended to be a Mac competitor. It’s always possible Apple could change their mind, but so far they seem to be sticking to their philosophies.

 

[secretk]

Yes redundancy is not ideal, and we try to reduce it as much as possible, but I just don’t think redundancy in itself is a problem that Apple tries to solve. I think Apple tries to make the best laptop or tablet or phone etc. that they can, and aren’t very concerned with functional overlap. If anything, they probably see functional overlap as mostly a good thing because it lets users get the most out of each device. So as such, I don’t think they’ll combine devices just to get rid of redundancy. UNLESS they feel the pressure of huge demand for such a device. That was kind of the case for phablets vs. smartphone + tablet, which they resisted until demand became too great to ignore.

Good point! One thing is what we want, different is what Apple wants . And yes the only way for this to happen is for them to see a huge demand.

I think as far as weight distribution, the problem is that there will always be a bare minimum amount of components that the tablet portion needs (battery, chips, touch sensors, etc) that will always make it more top heavy than a very thin laptop display. Increasing the weight of the keyboard base helps stabilize but increases the overall weight, and decreasing the tablet weight will probably come at the cost of battery life (as in the case of the Surface Book).

Yes, indeed that might be a challenge.

I agree, touch is not the end all, and I don’t think the average user is dying to use touch for everything. Like you said, it’s not a good tool for pinpoint accuracy. Also as soon as a physical keyboard is introduced, or if the screen is very large, I think most people want to use a cursor pointer for ergonomic reasons.

For sure. Touch is great for certain things but not for all cases so we kind of need to be able to use both mouse and touch with the same device IMO.

Yeah the smartphone camera really just solved a problem for very casual photo takers. Pros still need their dslrs. Bu you’re right about battery life being reduced. But that was a disadvantage that was apparently outweighed by the advantages for most. I bring a battery phone case when I go on a trip and know I’m going to be taking lots of pictures, which is better than bringing a whole other camera. I imagine others do the same or bring portable batteries. But actually I’ve been seriously considering buying a good dedicated point and shoot camera, mainly because great optical zoom is always something I’ve wanted that phone cameras have been very slow to adopt so far.

I go back and forth on that one to be honest. I do have mirrorless camera that I have to admit I find rather heavy to bring around. Sometimes I do prefer to carry around only the phone with me. I have two phones so the fact that one of them might not have sufficient battery for photos/videos and calls/GPS is mitigated by this. That being said for me battery life is an issue for smartphones in general. I do not find it acceptable to charge my smartphone every day. To solve this problem cellular data is switch off by default. This helps me to avoid distractions, to achieve digital minimalism in a way and to save battery.
Back to the mirrorless - it does give me better options for editing because I shoot in RAW. The thing is I do not have that much time doing editing so I kind of use my phone when I know that I need photos ready right away and use the mirrorless when I want to spend time in editing and polishing.

It seems we’re very similar. I too just want to use pen/pencil input with certain Mac productively/work programs. But I see an OS/form factor hybrid as being roundabout in accomplishing this. Ultimately, I really just want a form factor-only hybrid, ie. a MacBook that folds the keyboard back for pencil input. (And I’ve wanted this before iPad’s ever existed.)

That works for me too in a way. The reason I mentioned the hybrid OS is because I do think that it is difficult to have UI that works well both with pointer and touch. Touch interface is usually bigger. This makes sense for touch but it is a waste of space for mouse pointer. I am not sure how easy it would be to create UI that makes sense for both input methods without making huge compromises. My idea was more like - let's have a way to use touch appropriate interface of an app when we are in tablet mode, and mouse appropriate interface when we are in laptop mode.

 

[Digitalguy]

But if it needs a bigger battery that means it will be heavier. Can’t have it all, unfortunately.

No, you are assuming that the surface book and the iPad pro are equal in terms of hardware weight and battery size needs. They aren't. The surface book 13.5 has basically the same screen size as the iPad pro 12.9 (no, I am not rounding up inches, the aspect ratio difference more than offsets the 0.6in difference in terms of screen surface).
And it weights less that the surface book 13.5 clipboard, which has a smaller battery. By the way the ipad pro 12.9, with a smaller battery than the surface pro one, gets much better battery life. So it does not need the same battery size as a windows equivalent. To match surface book 15in screen surface the iPad pro wouldn't even need to be 15in. But even if they make it 15in (so bigger that the surface book 15 clipboard), it could be roughly the same 800gr, since the smaller motherboard, lack of fans etc. would offset the larger battery, which again wouldn't need to be "Windows large" to get the usual 10 hours.
So for once here yes, you could have it all...?

 

[subjonas]

I go back and forth on that one to be honest. I do have mirrorless camera that I have to admit I find rather heavy to bring around. Sometimes I do prefer to carry around only the phone with me. I have two phones so the fact that one of them might not have sufficient battery for photos/videos and calls/GPS is mitigated by this. That being said for me battery life is an issue for smartphones in general. I do not find it acceptable to charge my smartphone every day. To solve this problem cellular data is switch off by default. This helps me to avoid distractions, to achieve digital minimalism in a way and to save battery.
Back to the mirrorless - it does give me better options for editing because I shoot in RAW. The thing is I do not have that much time doing editing so I kind of use my phone when I know that I need photos ready right away and use the mirrorless when I want to spend time in editing and polishing.

I’m into minimalism as well. That’s why I still have my iPhone se1. It does what I need and stays out of the way. Though the camera is insufficient at times.
The phone camera can also be seen as just an option, if one doesn’t have a dedicated camera handy. By the way, did you know the new iPhones can shoot in RAW?

That works for me too in a way. The reason I mentioned the hybrid OS is because I do think that it is difficult to have UI that works well both with pointer and touch. Touch interface is usually bigger. This makes sense for touch but it is a waste of space for mouse pointer. I am not sure how easy it would be to create UI that makes sense for both input methods without making huge compromises. My idea was more like - let's have a way to use touch appropriate interface of an app when we are in tablet mode, and mouse appropriate interface when we are in laptop mode.

Yeah one UI for both touch and mouse would be awkward. I think Apple did the best version of that with mouse support in iOS/ipadOS, though it only solves ergonomics, not pixel point accuracy. Personally, I don’t need touch input on a large tablet at all, just pen for drawing and writing. So I would use the pen for navigation too while I have it handy. So I wouldn’t need a hybrid OS/UI, I’d just need macOS on a convertible form factor.

No, you are assuming that the surface book and the iPad pro are equal in terms of hardware weight and battery size needs. They aren't. The surface book 13.5 has basically the same screen size as the iPad pro 12.9 (no, I am not rounding up inches, the aspect ratio difference more than offsets the 0.6in difference in terms of screen surface).
And it weights less that the surface book 13.5 clipboard, which has a smaller battery. By the way the ipad pro 12.9, with a smaller battery than the surface pro one, gets much better battery life. So it does not need the same battery size as a windows equivalent. To match surface book 15in screen surface the iPad pro wouldn't even need to be 15in. But even if they make it 15in (so bigger that the surface book 15 clipboard), it could be roughly the same 800gr, since the smaller motherboard, lack of fans etc. would offset the larger battery, which again wouldn't need to be "Windows large" to get the usual 10 hours.
So for once here yes, you could have it all...?

I was really just referring to your liking the weight of the surface book but that you thought it needed a bigger battery. Bigger battery obviously means more weight.
As to whether an Apple version of the surface book would be able to get better battery life with the same weight, probably yes but by how much of course remains to be seen. I think a comparison to the iPad leaves a lot of unknown variables since the iPad only has to power a mobile OS.

 

[Digitalguy]

I’m into minimalism as well. That’s why I still have my iPhone se1. It does what I need and stays out of the way. Though the camera is insufficient at times.
The phone camera can also be seen as just an option, if one doesn’t have a dedicated camera handy. By the way, did you know the new iPhones can shoot in RAW?

Yeah one UI for both touch and mouse would be awkward. I think Apple did the best version of that with mouse support in iOS/ipadOS, though it only solves ergonomics, not pixel point accuracy. Personally, I don’t need touch input on a large tablet at all, just pen for drawing and writing. So I would use the pen for navigation too while I have it handy. So I wouldn’t need a hybrid OS/UI, I’d just need macOS on a convertible form factor.


I was really just referring to your liking the weight of the surface book but that you thought it needed a bigger battery. Bigger battery obviously means more weight.
As to whether an Apple version of the surface book would be able to get better battery life with the same weight, probably yes but by how much of course remains to be seen. I think a comparison to the iPad leaves a lot of unknown variables since the iPad only has to power a mobile OS.

yeah, my reply was assuming you were replying to "If Apple made an iPad pro this size and this light, I would buy it immediately". Anyway I think that Apple has shown that they can have relatively similar battery life on M1 macs and iPad in terms of size of the battery to battery life. The battery on the Macbook Air is around 30% larger than on the iPad pro 12.9 and that's roughly the amount by which the M1 Mac outperforms the iPad pro in terms of battery life, if not more... By doing similar tasks of course, like watching videos or browsing for instance. So the desktop OS in itself is not a drag on battery life, but it allows to multitask more heavily so it's easier to kill the battery sooner.

 

[secretk]

I’m into minimalism as well. That’s why I still have my iPhone se1. It does what I need and stays out of the way. Though the camera is insufficient at times.
The phone camera can also be seen as just an option, if one doesn’t have a dedicated camera handy. By the way, did you know the new iPhones can shoot in RAW?

Yeah, I know but I had not gone into details on what is exactly the RAW format and what apps you can use to process the RAW format and what is the workflow that makes sense. I mean iTunes on Windows is like PITA and I don't see myself wanting to use it to transfer photos . I appreciate the idea. I am just not sure that there are enough workflows that make sense.

Yeah one UI for both touch and mouse would be awkward. I think Apple did the best version of that with mouse support in iOS/ipadOS, though it only solves ergonomics, not pixel point accuracy. Personally, I don’t need touch input on a large tablet at all, just pen for drawing and writing. So I would use the pen for navigation too while I have it handy. So I wouldn’t need a hybrid OS/UI, I’d just need macOS on a convertible form factor.

To be honest I tried to use a mouse with my iPad and I do not enjoy it. It is clunky and highly inaccurate. It makes things even less efficient than using touch and keyboard. I do think that they need to think a bit more on what UI makes sense for mouse input. I was using the pencil but now with Scribble this is not that good idea either as I want to use the pencil for scrolling but it ends up activating scribble in some fields.

I was really just referring to your liking the weight of the surface book but that you thought it needed a bigger battery. Bigger battery obviously means more weight.
As to whether an Apple version of the surface book would be able to get better battery life with the same weight, probably yes but by how much of course remains to be seen. I think a comparison to the iPad leaves a lot of unknown variables since the iPad only has to power a mobile OS.

Good point that bigger battery would affect the weight. Software optimization should come into play as well I guess to minimize the additional weight.

 

[subjonas]

yeah, my reply was assuming you were replying to "If Apple made an iPad pro this size and this light, I would buy it immediately". Anyway I think that Apple has shown that they can have relatively similar battery life on M1 macs and iPad in terms of size of the battery to battery life. The battery on the Macbook Air is around 30% larger than on the iPad pro 12.9 and that's roughly the amount by which the M1 Mac outperforms the iPad pro in terms of battery life, if not more... By doing similar tasks of course, like watching videos or browsing for instance. So the desktop OS in itself is not a drag on battery life, but it allows to multitask more heavily so it's easier to kill the battery sooner.

Yeah it’s possible. I’m sure for some uses the battery life would be similar, like you said. The only other thing I wonder is the effect of a touch screen on a macbook’s battery life. I believe touch input is more of a battery drain than mouse. I don’t know by how much.

 

[subjonas]

Yeah, I know but I had not gone into details on what is exactly the RAW format and what apps you can use to process the RAW format and what is the workflow that makes sense. I mean iTunes on Windows is like PITA and I don't see myself wanting to use it to transfer photos . I appreciate the idea. I am just not sure that there are enough workflows that make sense.

To be honest I tried to use a mouse with my iPad and I do not enjoy it. It is clunky and highly inaccurate. It makes things even less efficient than using touch and keyboard. I do think that they need to think a bit more on what UI makes sense for mouse input. I was using the pencil but now with Scribble this is not that good idea either as I want to use the pencil for scrolling but it ends up activating scribble in some fields.

Yeah you got to use the workflow that meets your needs for sure.

Interesting, I haven’t tried mouse on iPad yet myself. I do wonder how much people actually use mouse on iPad now.
I haven’t used much of scribble either. But I could see how it might interfere with navigation, especially when there are large text fields like posting in forums. Styluses are most efficient when used with keyboard shortcuts (hold space bar to pan/scroll). It’s definitely trickier with no keyboard.