The Apple Vision Pro is a Maybe right now. It is the Apple Car that is a huge embarrassment. They need to investigate how Apple executives thought that they had any helpful skill to build upon.
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The end of Tim Cook's reign is near.
- Thread starter Pearple
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Do you have any insight as to how large corporations do R&D? Project Titan essentially functioned as an R&D center that many useful patents came out of. Things like smart fabrics, optical display systems, LIDAR enhancements, omnidirectional audio, etc. It never resulted in the car that was the initial start of the project, but there's plenty of tech that will spring forth from those efforts in the future in other Apple products.
Project Titan completely failed to produce a car, but it was not without fruit, and I fail to see why anyone should be embarassed by it.
All big Tech companies have tons of things in their research departments that will never see the light of day, but the insights gained from them usually end up elsewhere down the road...Xerox and Bell Labs basically resulted in the modern technology we use today.
Who is 'they' exactly?
And would you not think that within the company, even though not outside it, the reason for shutting down the project are as well known as the reasons it was started in the first place?
I would make the assumption that within Apple, the management team know precisely how that went and why, and I'd also make the assumption that those who hold that team to account, will be more that adequately informed.
I'd dispute the presumption that cancelling the project was a huge embarrassment. I'd bet 99% of the world population didn't even know Apple were thinking about it. Those that did almost certainly are aware that with the Chinese motor manufacturing industry now getting into gear (sorry, poor choice of pun), there was no practical way that Apple could make any money out of building a car and selling it. Not wanting to throw good money after bad, they cancelled... I think we'll find as Chinese EVs begin appearing in volume outside the Chinese domestic market, we'll see very clearly why that was wise.
What exactly is it that makes you think that you understand what questions need to be asked, and that Apple didn't?
In the very same vein, we had heard for years that Jony Ive had "nailed it" when it came to an Apple branded TV set. But that's an industry where there is little margin to be had so it never saw the light of day. By that user's logic, Apple should be very embarrassed they never went to production with a nonprofitable product, somebody should really fire that Ive guy 😄
The only good Apple product is the mac. Timmy needs to go
From the perspective of a potential customer, Tim Cook sucks. But from the perspective of a stock investor Tim did a great job.
We don't give things credit for their complexity.
For starters, who knew Elon Musk, the supposed genius that he is, let China build Tesla factories in the Chinese homeland so that they could hand-deliver BYD Tesla's IP and then overtake the EV market just this year. Thats a whole other topic. But the writing was on the wall awhile ago, and with Cook having to walk on egg-shells with China, the upside to EV development withered.
And while a decade ago autonomous EVs (A-EVs) development was all the rage, AI dev has now clearly gone in another direction, if not broadened quickly, and so Apple can play that game without needed to build (A-EVs) to attract that talent or keep the stock price on the up & up.
I don't think we appreciate just how bad Apple would be without Cook, because a majority of CEOs drive their company into the ground, slowly, or find some niche way of raising cash flow while making customers hate them (eg. Ticketmaster).
Out of 7 CEOs, 5 of them were very bad for Apple.
Cook knows his place. He lets his Lieutenants manage products or spearhead new products, but he keeps his fingers out of the baking and simply supports their efforts while making sure Apple is remaining profitable off existing customers (services); all the while maneuvering supply-chain and foreign-policy nightmares better than anyone could ask.
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Apple has never been a stronger or more controlling influence on the entire tech industry. The best days of Apple are very much in the future. I couldn't be more excited for next months event. WWDC soon to follow afterwards packed full of new software innovations, experiences, and seamless enhancements to the overarching human experience.
Federighi would make everyone happy and be popular amoung customers.
But I actually don’t think he’d want the job.
It’s nearly always the CFO who takes over but I’d bet Katherine Adams might take it next.
lol the Apple car had no place in the world. If anything, THAT is what has sucked resources out of the company for zero production.
I do agree that the bean counters need to go- being so cheap on memory with high end products will bite them later (although they are lucky windows it such a hot mess)
I do agree that the bean counters need to go- being so cheap on memory with high end products will bite them later (although they are lucky windows it such a hot mess)
I agree, besides, it doesn’t make a lick of sense.
For one, the “charging pad” failed to come out because of overheating issues. Besides, because the AirPower failed, we ended up with MagSafe, which is something I use daily. We got the better end of the bargain from that one! And it makes no sense to claim that Vision Pro somehow took resources away from AirPower.
For two, I’d rather have an Apple VR headset than an Apple self driving car. The latter does nothing to tie into or add to the Apple ecosystem, would cost tens of thousands of dollars (possibly even over $100,000), and doesn’t have any clear benefit for Apple, period. I’m assuming that Project Titan was never really intended to launch a consumer product, because cars just don’t really make any sense as a new market for Apple.
Well, I can think of Apple computers that cost more (even without adjusting for inflation) on release. The Apple Lisa, the Macintosh II, the Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh, most BTO options for the Mac Pro…
But it is the most expensive non-Mac product I’m aware of that they’ve ever released.
Oh, do you mean R&D costs? Well, adjusted for inflation, there have probably been more, but Apple’s been doing a pretty good job of developing Vision Pro hardware and software into other products for a while. LIDAR on the iPhone and on their Apple Maps cars is R&D costs that also help to improve LIDAR on Vision Pro, and that’s not the only example of cross pollination between Vision Pro and other Apple hardware.
Well, the forums here have always had a tendency to draw in the Apple anti-fans, the people with Apple Derangement Syndrome. If anything, there seem to be more of those than actual Apple fanboys here.
But I think the forums are also a major target for astroturfing from Apple’s competitors. Big news site, active forums, Apple users to rile up. And, I suppose the site owners could always be secretly spamming the forum with low quality trolls to drive engagement.
Speaking of trolling, though, the quality of trolling on the internet at large seems to have plummeted like a rock. Maybe there’s a kernel of truth to the whole “dead internet theory” concept.
I respectfully disagree. VR gaming is something of an established market (not really an emerging one), and it hasn’t been enough to mainstream VR headsets. VR gaming has a niche fanbase within the gaming market, which is a niche in and of itself. I don’t think Apple making a serious investment in AAA gaming on any of their platforms would really move the needle on gaming on their ecosystem, and I don’t think VR gaming is going to be what, if anything, will mainstream VR/AR (the VR gaming market doesn’t look primed to clear the early adopter canyon). I think the gaming market seems to have an overly inflated sense of itself, it’s a niche market that doesn’t realize how niche it is.
Good point. Here in Japan, the Docomo president refused to sell the iPhone when it was released. He thought people were happy with traditional cell phones. Then he lost massive market share to the two other telecom companies....
Coz Cook did in the right way. Microsoft sold their users' privacy down the river and lulled - almost forced - people into paying for products, notably, Office that their either didn't need, or didn't need to pay (so much) for.
Well, I'm bringing attention to the idea that it's (a) more expensive than Apple's usual cash-cow products and (b) there is no cheaper option in its category to ramp people into it or be the bread-and-butter—and so that adds further confirmation bias to those who aren't seeing an Apple Vision Pro adopted by all their friends and neighbors. "$3500? Nobody is buying them. It's a dud!"
Apple isn't trying to make a profit off these, or sell in huge numbers, since they are pricing each model at a loss (allegedly). This is seemingly a long term marketing strategy Apple is tactfully working through, the goal I believe being seeding a new ecosystem and learning from user/industry feedback.
(Anyway, I meant recent history, not all the way back to the 80's, but for instance the Apple Lisa had Apple 2e and Apple 3 to prove the category and be Apple's bread-and-butter when Apple Lisa wasn't selling—this is not the same thing as releasing a brand new product category and having an expensive product mass markets can't afford. The ProDisplay XDR may come to mind but that wasn't a new and unproven product category and in that case the target customer was clearly not mass market buyers so there were no critics claiming it was a dud upon release)
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I wouldn't say it failed spectacularly. It just needs economies of scale and it has to start somewhere. A slashed price with ever incrementally improving software I can see as a path to success. It's only been three months!
That said, I don't like Cook's price gouge-y tricks with deliberately offering terrible storage choices to get you to spend a LOT more. Sorry but I need 2 TB of storage, I have had 2 TB since the 2010 iMac - and it costs €920 to go from 256 GB to 2 TB!
That said, I don't like Cook's price gouge-y tricks with deliberately offering terrible storage choices to get you to spend a LOT more. Sorry but I need 2 TB of storage, I have had 2 TB since the 2010 iMac - and it costs €920 to go from 256 GB to 2 TB!
Well, you DID have people (who’d never be in the market for one) complaining about the cost of the ProDisplay XDR stand!
Actually, that’s probably pretty relevant. A good chunk of this negativity is probably the same sort of sour apples. Most people who’d actually buy the ProDisplay XDR would probably use it with the VESA mount. By charging what Apple did for the stand, they probably encouraged more people to opt for using the VESA mount instead, but the stand is available for people who absolutely prefer it.
I also wonder how much of the negativity is perhaps down to Astroturfing by Meta? I’m sure MacRumors is on the radar of any Apple competitor, it’s the perfect place to try to influence sentiment. In an era where Internet forums tend to be a thing of the past, here’s an independent Internet forum with a very active user base that’s clued in to the tech news cycle.