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iPad The iPad is not for traditional Mac users

theotherphil said:
I completely agree....the iPad is a computing appliance designed for the masses. So easy my 75yo parents can use it to access mail, banking, messaging and videoconferencing.

The problem is, it's "us nerds" who's always had the latest and greatest. We don't mind fiddling and tinkering and we want all that goodness of the iPad form factor with the traditional computing paradigm that we're all used to.

We just need to realise, the iPad was never about us.
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I don’t know if I could agree with that. The base model iPad might be designed for and marketed to the masses and grandpa to Facetime the grandkids, but the $1,100+ iPad Pro with $300 keyboard/trackpad was designed for and marketed to professional power users.

The issue is that Apple is limiting them to only being able to do around 80% of their work on the iPad. And it’s a voluntary software limitation, the hardware would be able to do 100% of the work.

I just speced an iPad Pro with magic pencil and smart keyboard for $2,877. I don’t think anyone could reasonably believe that is a device for the masses and/or grandparents to play around with.
 
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Digitalguy said:
And I completely disagree. Apple created this situation themselves, by creating the iPad pro first, then giving it M1 and a 16GB RAM version. This is not for the masses and it's more than fair to expect it to be able to do the work you do with a laptop with such a device. And iPadOS still needs a lot of improvement to get there.
Honestly I don't care about the iPad purists who are scared of any change that it would make more similar to a Mac.
I would be personally ok with either making the changes exclusive to the M1 iPads or taking the optional MacOS shortcut (wether it's virtualized or not), but at this stage iPadOS is severely handicapped and needs a lot of improvements for the iPad pro to deserve its name...
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Wish I could do more than hit just the thumbs-up on this post because this totally nails the issue. Few people complained about under-performing iPads until Apple equipped them with the same processor as their Macbooks and sold them for Macbook prices. We sort of excused-away iPads' limitations and figured iOS (latterly iPadOS) was doing the best it could with limited resources, bless it. Then Apple gave it the M1: the same chip they'd previously put in lower-end MacOS computers (Mini/Air/base MBP) which in that space proved MacOS+M1 could pretty much blow away all but the best legacy Intel Macs and totally obliterated any similar-priced new Wintel competition. In a flash that changed everything we expected a premium iPad to be capable of. But still it plodded on being just a great device to watch YouTube, draw pretty pictures and annotate PDF documents.
 
PandaPunch said:
That's what it sounds like. Honestly, your analogy is perfectly fine. Different tools for different tasks.

Although, I personally sidestep comments like that by pointing out that that you could in theory hit your local walking trail and listen to music from your MacBook Pro in your hand but it's not very practical. Same thing with the iPhone, you could write your next fantasy novel in Pages on your iPhone with just your thumbs but it's not practical.

I generally get this vibe that there are a lot of folks who want "one device to rule them all" and would be happy if Apple just fused the iPad, iPhone, and Mac into an Apple Pad or something that is an macOS based iPad that can make and receive phone calls from a SIM card. Even though I don't think that would ever work very well.
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boss.king said:
Yes.


Because it doesn't properly represent the situation. The limits on what an iPad can do are wholly artificial. To use your analogy, both devices are trucks, but the iPad-truck has had its bed welded over so that it doesn't cannibalize sales of the other truck.
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I actually wasn’t the original commenter haha, I was just jumping into the conversation. But anyway…

I agree that most ideas of one device to rule them all doesn’t work in general. The set of compromises that it necessarily brings may be tolerable for the individual or small group of individuals who promote the idea, but not to the majority. Speaking generally.

And both devices are not like trucks with one bed welded over. That would mean Apple started with two Macs and locked up the features of one of them. Definitely not the case. If you’re referring to both devices having M1 chips, it merely means both the car and truck now have the same engine.
 
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MajorFubar said:
You're missing my point. Like a few others have pointed out, I see no reason why the OS couldn't be opened up / enhanced to facilitate the hosting of complex apps like audio and video processing without ruining the experience for people who already like it just as it is. Literally non of us frustrated by its certain limitations want the things it's already good at to be taken away.
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No I am not missing the point. That point has been made by many in these forums and can be summarized as :make the iPadOS into a MacOS version to fit your workflow and computer experience.

Exactly what in iPadOS prevents it from running desktop versions of apps? Nothing I suspect. The iPad is also a portable device and if you run anything taxing, the battery will empty really fast. If the iPad existed in a 27 inch desktop format, sure you would expect “more” in terms of multitasking etc. Screen real estate and electricity is there for multiwindows support, backgrpund jobs and other Mac like features.

Many who need less complexity in their computing wants an iPad just like those moving from prompts based to GUI based OS. It does not mean that their job is less complex as frequently been suggested in these forums and also here. Frequent references to 70+ mothers (which is a sexist remark) really does not help communication either as these references demeans the work of others.


I am all favoring making iPadOS more competent but not if it leads to a complex to use OS.
 
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Digitalguy said:
And I completely disagree. Apple created this situation themselves, by creating the iPad pro first, then giving it M1 and a 16GB RAM version. This is not for the masses and it's more than fair to expect it to be able to do the work you do with a laptop with such a device. And iPadOS still needs a lot of improvement to get there.
Honestly I don't care about the iPad purists who are scared of any change that it would make more similar to a Mac.
I would be personally ok with either making the changes exclusive to the M1 iPads or taking the optional MacOS shortcut (wether it's virtualized or not), but at this stage iPadOS is severely handicapped and needs a lot of improvements for the iPad pro to deserve its name...
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Actually is was the Mac that got the iPad chip (M1=A14X) and not the other way around. The M1 is simply the cheapest chip around as it also sits in the majority of macs. Makes good sense to use it, right?

Scared? Not really but making a fork of iPadOS for the small fraction that buys M1 based iPads seem like really bad business. Improvements are fine but the epitome of computing is to make complex tasks easy. “Virtualisation”, if 1% of computer user knows what that means, I am surprised. Why should iPad users be exposed to this complexity when Macs are around?

The title of the thread is spot on and it seem that techies cannot accept that there is a capable computing device around but not intended for them. Luckily you have Mac, PC and Linux to play with.
 
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iPadified said:
Exactly what in iPadOS prevents it from running desktop versions of apps? Nothing I suspect.
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Crap file management, especially between apps. Primitive multitasking: e.g.: can't even play music from the Music app while watching a muted YT video. Primitive window management. No access to a true control panel to configure externally-connected hardware like audio interfaces and external displays (which incidentally are limited to using a 4:3 aspect ratio so not only can you not configure the resolution you end up with black bars). That's just a few things from the top of my head based on my specific myopic use-cases, and other critics will have their own criticisms which may/may not partially overlap mine. Do they directly prevent app developers from giving us Mac-equivalent pro-grade apps? You could definitely argue no, but they leave the overall impression from a pro-dev's point of view that the iPad is not a serious enough platform to invest in. Ask yourself why is it that, where an iPad version of a Mac / Windows app does now exist (like Cubase and Photoshop) it's always a chopped-down Lite version you'd once expect to find free on a CD taped to the front of Mac User magazine.

iPadified said:
I am all favoring making iPadOS more competent but not if it leads to a complex to use OS.
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I think M1 iPad users have a right to demand their potentially $2500+ product is enhanced to make it as capable as a similarly-priced computer, which IMO can be achieved without spoiling the overall look and feel of the iPad experience.
 
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iPadified said:
Actually is was the Mac that got the iPad chip (M1=A14X) and not the other way around. The M1 is simply the cheapest chip around as it also sits in the majority of macs. Makes good sense to use it, right?

Scared? Not really but making a fork of iPadOS for the small fraction that buys M1 based iPads seem like really bad business. Improvements are fine but the epitome of computing is to make complex tasks easy. “Virtualisation”, if 1% of computer user knows what that means, I am surprised. Why should iPad users be exposed to this complexity when Macs are around?

The title of the thread is spot on and it seem that techies cannot accept that there is a capable computing device around but not intended for them. Luckily you have Mac, PC and Linux to play with.
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I know and I have said it, but it was also a marketing choice.
Other than that, nobody here has statistics on what people want or know. It's all just guesses, including your 1%.
There are more than good reasons to desire an iPad pro that can do the work a Mac can, without having to carry around 2 devices. And I have explained them already so I wont repeat them here
 
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You know, I’m just thinking about this whole issue. I have countless friends, family, and acquaintances that use MacBook Pros. Some of them even using the 16 inchers. These are people who do nothing more than surf the web or play Facebook games. None of them use them for professional use, none of them have a program that would tax the system even the slightest. They use their MacBook Pros as Chromebooks

But Apple still makes an operating system that these complete novices can handle without any issue.

So I’m not understanding, and the people who oppose this haven’t explained, why it’s so hard to believe that Apple can make something in the middle for the iPad. They market their $2877 iPad Pro to professional power users, why can’t they open up their OS to allow those power users a little bit more access to the file system and to the apps that they need?

Or more accordingly, why are so many people saying they can’t or shouldn’t do this? Does it really bother you to give one person the ability to do something if it’s not forcing hardship on someone else?
 
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Charlie Carcinogen said:
You know, I’m just thinking about this whole issue. I have countless friends, family, and acquaintances that use MacBook Pros. Some of them even using the 16 inchers. These are people who do nothing more than surf the web or play Facebook games. None of them use them for professional use, none of them have a program that would tax the system even the slightest. They use their MacBook Pros as Chromebooks

But Apple still makes an operating system that these complete novices can handle without any issue.

So I’m not understanding, and the people who oppose this haven’t explained, why it’s so hard to believe that Apple can make something in the middle for the iPad. They market their $2877 iPad Pro to professional power users, why can’t they open up their OS to allow those power users a little bit more access to the file system and to the apps that they need?

Or more accordingly, why are so many people saying they can’t or shouldn’t do this? Does it really bother you to give one person the ability to do something if it’s not forcing hardship on someone else?
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My sister is like this, she has a base iPad and does nothing really pro, but does most things on her Samsung notebook. Why? Well, file management, desktop versions of apps like Office etc. (she uses Word on iPad, but sometimes she needs to do things that are not possible on iPad), the occasional desktop browser extension etc. Nothing crazy
 
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iPadified said:
Improvements are fine but the epitome of computing is to make complex tasks easy. “Virtualisation”, if 1% of computer user knows what that means, I am surprised. Why should iPad users be exposed to this complexity when Macs are around?
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That’s like saying the existence of Pro Create app in the App Store makes the iPad more complex. I’m not an artist and I don’t use an Apple Pencil so Pro Create shouldn’t exist. It’s ridiculous.

If Apple were to allow a virtualized MacOS mode it would be an optional download from the App Store. If you didn’t need it you simply wouldn’t download it. People keep trying to make the argument that options always make things more complicated but that doesn’t have to be true at all.
 
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jdb8167 said:
That’s like saying the existence of Pro Create app in the App Store makes the iPad more complex. I’m not an artist and I don’t use an Apple Pencil so Pro Create shouldn’t exist. It’s ridiculous.

If Apple was to allow a virtualized MacOS mode it would be an optional download from the App Store. If you didn’t need it you simply wouldn’t download it. People keep trying to make the argument that options always make things more complicated but that doesn’t have to be true at all.
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Apple cared enough to make iPad apps work on Mac, while hardly anybody cares (given the lack of touch and pen input). It shows they can do whatever they want, regardless of interest from customers.
Why that and not the opposite? Store apps on Macs means 30% cut for Apple for paid apps, Mac apps on iPad means no cut for paid apps... so not so interesting for Apple....
 
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iPadified said:
I am all favoring making iPadOS more competent but not if it leads to a complex to use OS.
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To be completely honest, I don't really consider macOS, Windows, ChromeOS, or even Linux to be that much more complex. Especially in the context of "everything in your browser" or "good enough default apps". Like sure, individual apps can be confusing to use but that's not the fault of the OS itself (usually).
 
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Digitalguy said:
And I completely disagree. Apple created this situation themselves, by creating the iPad pro first, then giving it M1 and a 16GB RAM version. This is not for the masses and it's more than fair to expect it to be able to do the work you do with a laptop with such a device. And iPadOS still needs a lot of improvement to get there.
Honestly I don't care about the iPad purists who are scared of any change that it would make more similar to a Mac.
I would be personally ok with either making the changes exclusive to the M1 iPads or taking the optional MacOS shortcut (wether it's virtualized or not), but at this stage iPadOS is severely handicapped and needs a lot of improvements for the iPad pro to deserve its name...
Click to expand...
Would you feel better if Apple had stuck 8GB RAM in the that version? For everyone saying that Apple is artificially limiting the iPad, it sounds like they would prefer Apple to limit the CPU and max RAM so it isn't an M# chip so they aren't somehow confused that it isn't a MacBook.

I don't expect the iPad to do the exact same work as my MBP because it never has, and spending a bunch of money getting the largest drive and most expensive keyboard case doesn't change that.

If you think iPad Pros are expensive now, just wait until you need spec one with 32GB RAM and 1TB to run both OSes smoothly. Be cheaper to just have separate devices.
 
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darngooddesign said:
Would you feel better if Apple had stuck 8GB RAM in the that version? For everyone saying that Apple is artificially limiting the iPad, it sounds like they would prefer Apple to limit the CPU and max RAM so it isn't an M# chip so they aren't somehow confused that it isn't a MacBook.
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No, that is absolutely not what anyone said or eluded to. Not in any way, shape, or form.

Everyone has clearly said the exact opposite, that they want the software to match the hardware. No one is asking for the hardware to be lessened in order to match the software.
 
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Charlie Carcinogen said:
I want to clarify something very important here. In an earlier post I said “grandma“. But then another post I said “grandpa“. I feel I have to point that out since people have actually gone to the extent to call some of us “sexist“. You have to be careful these days, you don’t want to be canceled by Wokeness.
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You can't say the word "woke" on here without being reported unless it's in the PRSI section. While I don't have a problem with your posts, MR will have to remove them to be consistent across all threads :(
 
Charlie Carcinogen said:
No, that is absolutely not what anyone said or eluded to. Not in any way, shape, or form.

Everyone has clearly said the exact opposite, that they want the software to match the hardware. No one is asking for the hardware to be lessened in order to match the software.
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So either increase the software, or decrease the chip to an A#. Both are limits.
 
BenTrovato said:
You can't say the word "woke" on here without being reported unless it's in the PRSI section. While I don't have a problem with your posts, MR will have to remove them to be consistent across all threads :(
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As a non native speaker I am learning new words today... ?
 
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