iPad The iPad is not for traditional Mac users

[Digitalguy]

I am very open, for sure.
I do think this in particular is a bad idea - thats all

I am sorry, but that's not what appears from your answers. You are very difensive. You are closed to a desktop mode on iPadOS, you sound scared that it could disrupt your workflow on iPad even if it's just an option (like dex is). You are closed to making the file app more similar to a desktop file system, you dismiss posts asking for improvement in sidecar saying get a Mac or Hakintosh. And of course you don't want MacOS as an option for reasons you have not even explained. I could add more if I take every single post, but that gives the idea.
The only "improvement" you want is desktop apps being ported to iPadOS, but without giving desktop features to the OS.
And that's unlikely to happen for reasons I have explained above

 

[XIO[-]OIX]

maybe the reason for friction is that I am talking about this from a product creation / company standpoint.
alowing osx on ipad would be unnecesary bloatware.

 

[Digitalguy]

maybe the reason for friction is that I am talking about this from a product creation / company standpoint.
alowing osx on ipad would be unnecesary bloatware.

the bloatware argument does not hold, if your argument is that MacOS would take storage on the M1 for those who don't use it, it could simply be downloaded for those who want it....
Again that's just the MacOS thing, there are many other things in this thread...

 

[XIO[-]OIX]

no thats not my argument.
also I am very pro iPad improvement you really got the wrong idea here.

 

[Digitalguy]

no thats not my argument.
also I am very pro iPad improvement you really got the wrong idea here.

that seems to be the theme, very defensive, no explanations

 

[PandaPunch]

@Charlie Carcinogen @Digitalguy I am not a closed person - I just think OSX on iPad - at this point - is a horrible idea. From a product standpoint and from a company standpoint.

Eh, the more I run it through my head, I'm not sure about that anymore. If I ignore my workflow and attitude (iPad/iPhone for certain tasks, Mac/Gaming PC does the heavy lifting or longer sessions) I'm sure with some tweaks Apple could have macOS work on the iPad at least the larger iPads as an option.

Bouncing ideas off others here, especially Digitalguy, is making me see just how similar macOS and iPadOS are. iPadOS's dock, in my opinion, is extremely similar to macOS's dock down to basically having Launchpad. If Launchpad automatically sorted folders. I don't know much about Launchpad before the M1 Macs but as it is is now, Launchpad would be extremely touch-first device friendly as it is. Combine that with better monitor support, like maybe a dock? Then you could have the iPad with macOS that changes from "mobile mode" to "desktop mode". And we've gotten to a point where Apple has Universal Apps, on paper it could work. And the iPad could still be an iPad if you want it to be.

Of course, if Apple would do this and they won't, I would still choose iPadOS and macOS on separate devices because I still think form factor is a big, big aspect in how you use your device. I'm not going to hook up a bluetooth keyboard on my iPad to type up comments on MacRumors or chatting on Discord because doing that on my Mac with an adjustable monitor is better for my neck. Also, I think the solution that would please everyone or almost everyone would be really clunky at best. But options are almost always a net positive, even if you personally aren't interested.

 

[Digitalguy]

Eh, the more I run it through my head, I'm not sure about that anymore. If I ignore my workflow and attitude (iPad/iPhone for certain tasks, Mac/Gaming PC does the heavy lifting or longer sessions) I'm sure with some tweaks Apple could have macOS work on the iPad at least the larger iPads as an option.

Bouncing ideas off others here, especially Digitalguy, is making me see just how similar macOS and iPadOS are. iPadOS's dock, in my opinion, is extremely similar to macOS's dock down to basically having Launchpad. If Launchpad automatically sorted folders. I don't know much about Launchpad before the M1 Macs but as it is is now, Launchpad would be extremely touch-first device friendly as it is. Combine that with better monitor support, like maybe a dock? Then you could have the iPad with macOS that changes from "mobile mode" to "desktop mode". And we've gotten to a point where Apple has Universal Apps, on paper it could work. And the iPad could still be an iPad if you want it to be.

Of course, if Apple would do this and they won't, I would still choose iPadOS and macOS on separate devices because I still think form factor is a big, big aspect in how you use your device. I'm not going to hook up a bluetooth keyboard on my iPad to type up comments on MacRumors or chatting on Discord because doing that on my Mac with an adjustable monitor is better for my neck. Also, I think the solution that would please everyone or almost everyone would be really clunky at best. But options are almost always a net positive, even if you personally aren't interested.

I have to say, even before this message, I really appreaciate your open attitude despite we having different use cases for the iPad (which does not mean completely different either)

 

[AlumaMac]

I feel like guys like AlumaMac get some special kind of pleasure from demeaning iPads… weird.. ?

Just giving my anecdotal experience as an iPad user.

Sent from my iPad.

 

[PandaPunch]

I have to say, even before this message, I really appreaciate your open attitude despite we having different use cases for the iPad (which does not mean completely different either)

Thanks, we definitely need more open mindedness in the tech space. I don't know why the space is so attractive to those with overly rigid thinking, but that kind of thinking really doesn't help the discussion at all. If I kept my overly rigid thinking from back in the day, I would've never bought the iPad in the first place for reading manga.

 

[PandaPunch]

maybe the reason for friction is that I am talking about this from a product creation / company standpoint.
alowing osx on ipad would be unnecesary bloatware.

Wait a second, what are you defining as "bloatware"? macOS, at least when compared to pre-built Windows machines, has no bloatware. And comes with the same apps you would on an iPhone or iPad if you have the space for them (Pages, GarageBand, iMovie, etc).

 

[JPSaltzman]

Well, the day someone manages to produce a professionally typeset and designed book (by that I mean an actual physical hardbound or paperbound book, with traditional binding) -- not an eBook -- on an iPad, and have it successful published as a book, and sold as such (not as a in-demand book), then that is the day Apple can finally announce that the iPad is indeed Your Next Computer.

How many years ago did Tim Cook make that promise?

Look how many versions of iOs it took before it actually allowed you to upload your own choice of fonts (typefaces). It's bad enough you have to buy the fonts from the iOs App Store. (Designers and typesetters seem to end up having to buy completely new set of fonts every 10 years or so just to satisfy "technology".)

And just look how long it took Adobe to sort-of "port" Photoshop (well, at least parts of it) to the iPad. Still waiting for inDesign....

Anyway, after all these years, I'm still waiting .....

 

[BhaveshUK]

There’s been a lot of thoughtful discussion in this thread and seeing everyone’s different perspective on what iPad should and could be is awesome. I’d be very appreciative if we continue keeping a civil discussion.

We may not all agree with @XIO[-]OIX about the current issues or future of iPad, but I think we can all appreciate that if everyone is replying to him with terms such as “delusional” or ”close minded” he may feel personally attacked. Would you like someone throwing those terms at you?

Equally @XIO[-]OIX, I hope you can appreciate that many people hold a lot of issues with the current state of iPad. For many people, it feels too limited for their workflows. @Digitalguy has raised some great points about iPad in this thread. It doesn’t mean you’re wrong and they’re right, this is just a discussion. Others in this thread may be feeling you have been putting their points down whenever they have made them without a sufficient explanation as to why you feel that way. I hope you can appreciate that may not feel nice for them.

 

[Shreducator]

I fell for the whole what is a computer and the iPad is your next computer marketing. Which is funny because Steve Jobs stated he did not want the iPad to be a computer. One day my phone bricked during an update and I was unable to restore from my iPad. Of course it was during covid so I Couldn't get into an Apple store to restore for a while. Anyway MacBooks have sucked until recently but glad I got one for real work.

 

[Digitalguy]

There’s been a lot of thoughtful discussion in this thread and seeing everyone’s different perspective on what iPad should and could be is awesome. I’d be very appreciative if we continue keeping a civil discussion.

We may not all agree with @XIO[-]OIX about the current issues or future of iPad, but I think we can all appreciate that if everyone is replying to him with terms such as “delusional” or ”close minded” he may feel personally attacked. Would you like someone throwing those terms at you?

Equally @XIO[-]OIX, I hope you can appreciate that many people hold a lot of issues with the current state of iPad. For many people, it feels too limited for their workflows. @Digitalguy has raised some great points about iPad in this thread. It doesn’t mean you’re wrong and they’re right, this is just a discussion. Others in this thread may be feeling you have been putting their points down whenever they have made them without a sufficient explanation as to why you feel that way. I hope you can appreciate that may not feel nice for them.

Thanks for posting this. To be honest I never used the words delusional or close minded myself. I talked about a "closed/defensive attitude" for the reason you mentioned yourself. I don't think I used words that can be considered personal attacks. If I did, do point them out and I'll gladly apologize. I really hope everyone can contribute to an open discussion, despite different views.

 

[bscheffel]

One thing I can say is that other forums don't have these kind of discussions - why you ask.

@Charlie Carcinogen @Digitalguy I am not a closed person - I just think OSX on iPad - at this point - is a horrible idea. From a product standpoint and from a company standpoint.

Why is MacOS on an iPad a bad idea?
1. Use a bootcamp like option
2. Make it optional with the default being booting into iPadOS so that you don't even know it's there unless you want it
3. Requires Magic keyboard or mouse+keyboard since touch screen won't work when booted into MacOS

This would be nirvana for me and keep me from lugging around two devices. iPadOS can do about 80% of what I need from a daily basis and for the remaining 20% when I need to do serious work I use it like a laptop booted into MacOS.

I know why this is bad for Apple from a financial perspective (don't need to buy two devices) but why is it bad from a product perspective? You can't deny it would be super beneficial to a lot of users without impacting those that don't want or need it.

 

[iPadified]

Craig, is that you?

iPadOS is most certainly not the most sophisticated OS on the planet.
It’s literally just a derivative of iOS, which is practically a derivative of OS X.
If by “sophisticated” you mean severely held back, closed off with very limited compatibility and room for, let’s say, personal improvements, meaning the user can change settings and functions as they like and see fit (like very customisable keyboard shortcuts or specialised software for certain workflows), then yes, it is very sophisticated. You literally ignore that iPadOS is just a beefed up version of iOS and that macOS is by far more feature rich and had a lot more time to mature. I mean, you really want to claim that a basically 3 year old OS (15 years tops counting iOS) on a touch screen device with only 1 port is more sophisticated than an almost 40 year old (considering all Macintosh OS’s) computer operating system from the same company?
Look, you clearly aren’t one to benefit from an actually sophisticated version of iPadOS, but that doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t exist. You have your opinion and that’s fine, but it’s just an opinion, nothing to preach like you did.

Think you miss the distinction between complex and sophisticated. A complex OS excludes wider user groups adaption while a sophisticated hides the complexity and includes more people. Reminds me of the debates on prompt based OS (obviously the only OS for real Pros) and GUI OS (which obviously a toy in comparison)...

 

[spiderman0616]

There has recently been a lot of conversation among tech circles, here and on social media, about the iPad in and it's current state. Apple has practiced restraint and kept the iPad as simple to use as long as possible and tried to keep it a a separate product from the Mac.

Out of curiosity, I checked iPad commercials on YouTube and Apple's website to see how Apple themselves see the iPad and how they envision people using them. They have honed in and focused on note taking and drawing with the Apple Pencil as the core features and they're are all over the marketing material. It's the same situation with the Apple Watch: fitness and notifications.

Every year people are exited and hopeful that the next iPadOS version will make the iPad more Mac-like but aren't they setting themselves up for disappointment? The iPad and Mac bring in around the same revenue for Apple so their current strategy with the iPad is working. Anecdotally I have seen a ton of iPads all over high schools and colleges. There are a lot of happy iPad users.

A post like this is always going to ruffle a lot of feathers, and there was a time not long ago at all when it would have ruffled mine. These days though, I agree with you.

In the old days, the Mac just simply progressed slower than all the other product lines because it was so reliant on Intel's roadmap, Power PC's roadmap, etc. That has caused it to be treated like a second class citizen during certain times over the years, especially when they threw in some of the more polarizing features like the TouchBar and the garbage butterfly switch keyboards. I personally dealt with this by, for all intents and purposes, abandoning the Mac completely and going to iPad Pro full time.

Post M1, the situation is completely different. macOS was always meant, at least since the start of OSX, to be the unifying superset of all Apple device software. Now it can finally function the way it's supposed to: like the ultra powerful "professional" OS it's supposed to be, and that takes a LOT of the things I moved to the iPad back over to the Mac.

In my mind, the ecosystem just makes more sense this way now. Mac for the most demanding/sophisticated tasks or just when I want to be in a desktop environment, iPad as a stand-in for the Mac when the occasion arises as well as for notation with Apple Pencil, iPhone as the portable and pocketable version of both, and on down the line. Heck, sometimes even the Apple Watch is all I need.

 

[iPadified]

Most people complaining about the iPad's artificially-imposed limitations don't give a flying ---- about games. Try being a musician, photographer or videographer. The limitations imposed by the OS and the lack of pro-grade apps for those high-profile purposes are not 'small complaints'. I'm certain there are others too, those are the ones I notice because they're my focus, especially music.

And that is the sum total of professions? There are plenty others that rather uses an iPad than a Mac/PC because the former delivers and the latter do not. Complexity in profession does not equal complex needs in computing. A simple task such as annotating a pdf is far easier on an iPad than on a Mac but are used by lawers, teachers, researchers and many more.

 

[PandaPunch]

And that is the sum total of professions? There are plenty others that rather uses an iPad than a Mac/PC because the former delivers and the latter do not. Complexity in profession does not equal complex needs in computing. A simple task such as annotating a pdf is far easier on an iPad than on a Mac but are used by lawers, teachers, researchers and many more.

Yea, annotating/drawing on documents and photos is extremely useful and the iPad provides that in an easy to carry package. I remember when I mounted a networking switch and cable modem to the wall, I took a picture of the wall and drew a crude idea of where I would place them so I could visualize it and show it to a family member.

Like construction/home projects alone make the iPad worth it, especially when comes to planning it out and sharing it. But also, taking pictures of your body and circling bumps or scars for your doctor if you're doing telehealth. Or for job training purposes, like pointing out to a new hire that the pallet that is on the top shelf is sticking out too much and therefore a safety hazard.

 

[Charlie Carcinogen]

And that is the sum total of professions? There are plenty others that rather uses an iPad than a Mac/PC because the former delivers and the latter do not. Complexity in profession does not equal complex needs in computing. A simple task such as annotating a pdf is far easier on an iPad than on a Mac but are used by lawers, teachers, researchers and many more.

I think most people would benefit in some way if they had more functionality out of an iPad, going as far as to say the ability to use Mac OS X on it. I also think that the Apple employees who are the greatest engineers and developers in the world can easily find a way to allow grandma to use her iPad in a basic way while allowing power users to do more complicated things that Apple currently bars us from doing.

My contention is that I could do 98% of what I have to do on my iPad, but I still find myself having to begrudgingly get up and go to the computer to do that remaining 2%.

Now if you tell me that the reason is due to Apple wanting to make profit, I completely understand that. But I don’t accept the idea that I’m supposed to just believe that Mac OS X on an iPad is “horrible” and leave it at that.

 

[BhaveshUK]

Thanks for posting this. To be honest I never used the words delusional or close minded myself. I talked about a "closed/defensive attitude" for the reason you mentioned yourself. I don't think I used words that can be considered personal attacks. If I did, do point them out and I'll gladly apologize. I really hope everyone can contribute to an open discussion, despite different views.

I really appreciate your openness. My intention wasn’t to single you out in my post and I hope you didn’t feel that way. I mentioned you as you’ve made some great points across this thread and to demonstrate how it might feel like your opinions were being repeatedly undermined in the communication with @XIO[-]OIX.

My intention in interjecting was because I value the conversations on this forum, and I’d like to keep it being a safe space for every member to share their viewpoint. My concern was that at some point it felt the conversation had shifted to being focussed on making comments about an individual, and I personally don’t want anyone to feel unsafe using or expressing themselves on these forums. I’m sure we all don’t want that.

At the end of the day we’re all here for the same reason. To discuss a device we love — iPad — and in that, we are unified ☺️

 

[iPadified]

My contention is that I could do 98% of what I have to do on my iPad, but I still find myself having to begrudgingly get up and go to the computer to do that remaining 2%.

As do I but I am OK with it and frankly need more than 2% on Mac due to specialised software. Different needs require different types of computers and corresponding different user interface. If the iPadOS will be as complex as MacOS, it will be dead for lots of people.

That being said, fix the external display support please.

However the most robust presenting machine I know is the iPad : plug in the cable and you are good to go. No mess with extended display settings and other complexity. Switching computers during presentation is always a hassle. It should never be in these stressful situations. Remove options and it will be simpler. A sophisticated OS would help the user in these stressful situation not hidings options under settings.

 

[XIO[-]OIX]

Wait a second, what are you defining as "bloatware"? macOS, at least when compared to pre-built Windows machines, has no bloatware. And comes with the same apps you would on an iPhone or iPad if you have the space for them (Pages, GarageBand, iMovie, etc).

No, macOS is a great OS I love it. I think the act of putting both macOS and iPadOS on an iPad os bloatware in itself. Plus opens a hoast of potential problems / compatibility or security wise… Plus it seems like such a half baked solution - something that would come form Samsung not Apple. its basically saying - we have no idea how to make a good OS for iPad so here’s two, hope you can make them work.
It’s a very wrong approach and not one Apple would likely take.
And I have huge respect for Apple not doing things like theese.

 

[XIO[-]OIX]

Well, the day someone manages to produce a professionally typeset and designed book (by that I mean an actual physical hardbound or paperbound book, with traditional binding) -- not an eBook -- on an iPad, and have it successful published as a book, and sold as such (not as a in-demand book), then that is the day Apple can finally announce that the iPad is indeed Your Next Computer.

How many years ago did Tim Cook make that promise?

Look how many versions of iOs it took before it actually allowed you to upload your own choice of fonts (typefaces). It's bad enough you have to buy the fonts from the iOs App Store. (Designers and typesetters seem to end up having to buy completely new set of fonts every 10 years or so just to satisfy "technology".)

And just look how long it took Adobe to sort-of "port" Photoshop (well, at least parts of it) to the iPad. Still waiting for inDesign....

Anyway, after all these years, I'm still waiting .....

I guess you are in the DTP industry so the ability to create a book is what you use to measure the capability of a certain device. Indeed inDesign is not available for iPad. So , to make a book you need inDesin. You can also do it in lets say Affinity Designer, not sure if you can make a whole book thou.. let me check and come back.

so I just tried and heres what I concluded. You ’could’ make a book on iPad, but it would not be a good process. Here is why. Even if Afinity Designer is not really made to be like inDesign but like Illustrator, it’s still a rather good and capable app, and you could make a book in it. It also has much more DTP options than illustrator has. Unfortionatley , it seems to lack the most important one - the option to link text boxes.
Not sure if I just can’t find it, or if it is missing from iPad, as it does exist in a Mac version … iPad version of Affinity Designer mostly is the same.. So not sure about this. But as it currently stands, … you could in theory make a book, but it would be a pain in the ass.. And the only reason is - this little feature missing from Affinity Designer… so.. 90%t here?

As for fonts, you can import Mac fonts to iPad, what you need is an app called Fontcase.
There is also a great app for font editing and design called iFontMaker.

Here is a little design I just made in AffinityDesigner.

 

[bscheffel]

No, macOS is a great OS I love it. I think the act of putting both macOS and iPadOS on an iPad os bloatware in itself. Plus opens a hoast of potential problems / compatibility or security wise… Plus it seems like such a half baked solution - something that would come form Samsung not Apple. its basically saying - we have no idea how to make a good OS for iPad so here’s two, hope you can make them work.
It’s a very wrong approach and not one Apple would likely take.
And I have huge respect for Apple not doing things like theese.

What compatibility/security issues? iPad Pro has T2 chip and supports encryption. Apple controls all the device drivers already and they have a limited number of hardware models to support.

I don't see it as admission of fault on building a great OS for iPad. I look at from this perspective: We have built an device that provides the best tablet experience and by adding a Magic Keyboard it can provide the same amazing Mac experience you know from MacBooks. And since tablets work best with a touch interface, and laptops work best with a mouse/keyboard experience you can switch between the two based on which is best for your task at the moment. All in one hardware device. Heck don't even advertise it as a feature. The only people who really care it about it are techies for the most part. Throw the nerds a bone and get them off your back because they won't quit clamoring for it. Renee Ritchie pretty much nails that is this new video: