The iPad pro IS expensive (e.g., compared to surface)

[Azl]

Your not really comparing apple to apples here.... X86 and ARM are completely two different platforms.

Of course they are, but that doesn't mean Benchmarks are completely useless.

 

[Closingracer]

Of course they are, but that doesn't mean Benchmarks are completely useless.

They are..

.benchmarking in general is useless in of itself

 

[Azl]

They are..

.benchmarking in general is useless in of itself

Okay, so I will correct myself - thats what the Benchmarks say.
Useless or not

 

[Closingracer]

Okay, so I will correct myself - thats what the Benchmarks say.
Useless or not

Still useless and not a factor in which device is "better" which is also a subjective manner.

 

[spinedoc77]

the tablet is really just for fun tho eh (doesnt necessarily need to be lugged)? Unless you need full windows in the field with tablet mode, as a doc maybe that fits your use case?

I like the ipads for fun...long battery life, web browsing, content consumption. I just don't think those functions are necessarily worth the price, although this is simply my own opinion of how to use my money. I don't want to begrudge others their opinion and if it's worth it to them. I must say that every time I get a chance to hold an ipad it always amazes me how thin and light they are.
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Nobody mentioned it so I just wanted to add, that the iPad pro is about as twice as fast as the non pro surface3 (cpu)
Not even talking about graphics power. (where it even beats the Surface Pro 4 by far)

So, hardware is definitely way better.

Yeah but...so what? For all its power, can it run photoshop? AutoCAD? GTA V?

 

[zhenya]

I'd hate to lug around a laptop AND an ipad pro when a surface pro does the job just as well usually, and sometimes better. I forget, but you are not in the US right? In the US you can just bring your SP3 right to a MS store and they would swap it out for you in an instant.

I'm in the US, but it's a 70-mile one-way drive to the nearest store. It may come down to that at this point, although right now I'm configuring my old Thinkpad to work with again. I've lost all faith in my Surface or Microsoft's ability to support it. Fine for casual use. Not something I can depend on for my career.

 

[gotluck]

I like the ipads for fun...long battery life, web browsing, content consumption. I just don't think those functions are necessarily worth the price, although this is simply my own opinion of how to use my money. I don't want to begrudge others their opinion and if it's worth it to them. I must say that every time I get a chance to hold an ipad it always amazes me how thin and light they are.

roger that! that is how I view them as well, might as well save some money and get the ipad air 2 / mini 4, combined with some sale that always seems to be running, since the extra power in the pro is largely useless to most, unless you are going to try to wedge the device in as your primary productivity device

I still think laptops are going to be the main work devices for most. The sp4 is nice, but is the tablet mode really worth the loss in battery life? I think I'd still rather use an ipad if I was going to use a tablet, so I couldnt justify the sp4. I dont really need the tablet for 'work' so I'm not lugging it around with my laptop all the time

 

[617aircav]

My surface 3 (no pro) can run photoshop and illustrator (though slow when making changes to large files). The iPad Pro could not do this, not based on specs but on the Unavailability of desktop apps.

 

[spinedoc77]

I'm in the US, but it's a 70-mile one-way drive to the nearest store. It may come down to that at this point, although right now I'm configuring my old Thinkpad to work with again. I've lost all faith in my Surface or Microsoft's ability to support it. Fine for casual use. Not something I can depend on for my career.

Ouch, 70 miles. With all the heartache you are going through maybe you can just write off a Saturday and drive down and have a shiny new replacement. I know, time is money. I'd rail them until they gave me a free dock adapter or something for all that mileage.
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roger that! that is how I view them as well, might as well save some money and get the ipad air 2 / mini 4, combined with some sale that always seems to be running, since the extra power in the pro is largely useless to most, unless you are going to try to wedge the device in as your primary productivity device

I still think laptops are going to be the main work devices for most. The sp4 is nice, but is the tablet mode really worth the loss in battery life? I think I'd still rather use an ipad if I was going to use a tablet, so I couldnt justify the sp4. I dont really need the tablet for 'work' so I'm not lugging it around with my laptop all the time

I actually stopped carrying my SP4 around, actually I stopped when I still had the SP3. I realized it was VERY inconvenient to lug around any tablet over 8" size. I still bring it to work, but only because I bring a fairly large lunch bag and I can just throw the SP4 in there. But other than that the SP4 is rarely out of the house unless it's an overnight stay. But I do have a Note 5 which does an admirable job as a consumption "tablet". I also have a 8" windows tablet I carry around that fits in my back pocket, I find it to be MUCH more convenient. I can't wait for foldable screens!!

 

[zhenya]

Ouch, 70 miles. With all the heartache you are going through maybe you can just write off a Saturday and drive down and have a shiny new replacement. I know, time is money. I'd rail them until they gave me a free dock adapter or something for all that mileage.

3 toddlers at home. full time job and training for multiple 50-100 mile races this season. Spending an entire day driving to a store on the hope that the person behind the counter decides to treat me well is not in the cards.

 

[eyeseeyou]

So if you want a really good tablet you go with an iPad Pro if you want a really good laptop you're not looking at a surface pro?

 

[spinedoc77]

So if you want a really good tablet you go with an iPad Pro if you want a really good laptop you're not looking at a surface pro?

It all depends on your use, neither of them are good or bad choices, but you can make a wise or poor decision if you don't examine how you will use them. If you are only consuming content, emails, video/music, internet then the ipad is a great choice, thin, light and long battery life. If, however, you need more power, need to run windows full programs, want to play desktop games, want to use it as a laptop with a keyboard and mouse, etc. then the surface may be a better option although you will sacrifice to have something a bit thicker, heavier and with less battery life.

That's why it's impossible to define a "good tablet", what people really are asking is not if it's a good tablet, but if it's a "good ipad". Of course the ipad will be the best ipad, but not necessarily the best tablet.

 

[mildocjr]

Well, along with that Surface Pro at $850 lets add $150 for office (or infinite if you pay monthly), and we need antivirus on that thing so lets be reasonable and add on $60 for basic antivirus ($1060) and add another $60 every year. So after 3 years of both devices, saying you went with Office365 you now paid $216 for Office and another $180 for antivirus and I'm not mentioning service costs if you have a driver issue. You are now looking at $1246 for the Surface vs $1100 for the iPad. Choice is yours and what works best with your existing set up, but look at the overall use cost vs just the initial cost.

 

[Surf Donkey]

Well, along with that Surface Pro at $850 lets add $150 for office (or infinite if you pay monthly), and we need antivirus on that thing so lets be reasonable and add on $60 for basic antivirus ($1060) and add another $60 every year. So after 3 years of both devices, saying you went with Office365 you now paid $216 for Office and another $180 for antivirus and I'm not mentioning service costs if you have a driver issue. You are now looking at $1246 for the Surface vs $1100 for the iPad. Choice is yours and what works best with your existing set up, but look at the overall use cost vs just the initial cost.

TIL Windows Defender + Malwarebytes Pro (which is all you will ever need) is $60 a year.

 

[mildocjr]

My wife has a surface pro 4, and she has plenty problems. So, yes.
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Yes, that's a good point. In this case, though, the surface non-pro 3 is more capable in that it can run desktop programs.

Along with my other comment, just get what works for you, don't try to nit pick based on what everyone else tells you. If you have a primarily Windows environment already, get a Surface Pro, it will work seamlessly with your current set up, if you have a Mac with iCloud you'll probably love the iPad Pro and it's equivalent connected experience.

I personally have a Mac setup and I love my iPad but I have friends who are Windows-till-the-end and love their Surface tablets.

 

[Azl]

My wife is windows only for her desktop and notebook (doesnt really like osx),
but still prefers the ipad as a tablet.

So it's not always all or nothing. Depends on the use case and preference.
Which we know nothing about.

 

[mildocjr]

TIL Windows Defender + Malwarebytes Pro (which is all you will ever need) is $60 a year.

Which goes along with my baseline of $60 a year that I had mentioned prior to the 3 years total of $180. I happen to just use Windows Defender and block ad content providers through my host file which does a good job of protecting me on it's own, I only install Malwarebytes if I know that I'll be surfing some questionable sites for testing or research. I'll run a scan with Malwarebytes probably once a month just to make sure everything is still good to go. But the fact still remains that if you use the Windows equivalents to Mac you'll still be paying more out of pocket if you are hardheaded and want to go with Office365 no arguing that. However, for those who didn't know about it, OpenOffice (LibreOffice) does exactly the same stuff as Office and is completely free. So yeah, I could have easily adjusted those numbers to make it sound cheaper, but your average person is going to buy Antivirus at $60/yr. and use Office365 not knowing they can buy the retail version for $150 upfront and save themselves some money. Besides if you get on the Office365 upgrade plan you save about $6 from the total retail price before the next version comes out with a "free" upgrade for the subscribers.

I would like to mention that I'm not Windows ignorant. I just know how most users think when they get a new computer.

 

[spinedoc77]

Well, along with that Surface Pro at $850 lets add $150 for office (or infinite if you pay monthly), and we need antivirus on that thing so lets be reasonable and add on $60 for basic antivirus ($1060) and add another $60 every year. So after 3 years of both devices, saying you went with Office365 you now paid $216 for Office and another $180 for antivirus and I'm not mentioning service costs if you have a driver issue. You are now looking at $1246 for the Surface vs $1100 for the iPad. Choice is yours and what works best with your existing set up, but look at the overall use cost vs just the initial cost.

Hmm, you don't have to add Office. You can use the free web version which is similar to the ipad/android versions for free. Getting the full version of Office is gravy if you need that kind of functionality, but you shouldn't include it in your calculations any more than any other app or program you are planning to buy. As for anti virus, Windows has a very robust anti virus/malware program included for absolutely free.
[doublepost=1459800121][/doublepost]

Which goes along with my baseline of $60 a year that I had mentioned prior to the 3 years total of $180. I happen to just use Windows Defender and block ad content providers through my host file which does a good job of protecting me on it's own, I only install Malwarebytes if I know that I'll be surfing some questionable sites for testing or research. I'll run a scan with Malwarebytes probably once a month just to make sure everything is still good to go. But the fact still remains that if you use the Windows equivalents to Mac you'll still be paying more out of pocket if you are hardheaded and want to go with Office365 no arguing that. However, for those who didn't know about it, OpenOffice (LibreOffice) does exactly the same stuff as Office and is completely free. So yeah, I could have easily adjusted those numbers to make it sound cheaper, but your average person is going to buy Antivirus at $60/yr. and use Office365 not knowing they can buy the retail version for $150 upfront and save themselves some money. Besides if you get on the Office365 upgrade plan you save about $6 from the total retail price before the next version comes out with a "free" upgrade for the subscribers.

I would like to mention that I'm not Windows ignorant. I just know how most users think when they get a new computer.

malware bytes has a free version where you can run manual scans. But in my experience windows defender has caught much more malware that malware bytes doesn't detect. Now the windows equivalent of Mac for Office isn't the same as the windows equivalent of iOS, which is what the debate is about. The windows equivalent of Office for iOS is free on windows. I still opine the added costs are $0 comparing apples to apples.

 

[lazard]

Nobody mentioned it so I just wanted to add, that the iPad pro is about as twice as fast as the non pro surface3 (cpu)
Not even talking about graphics power. (where it even beats the Surface Pro 4 by far)

So, hardware is definitely way better.

It can have the best hardware in the world, but useless for someone who is looking to run applications like Photoshop, Premier Pro, Autocad, etc.

 

[mildocjr]

Hmm, you don't have to add Office. You can use the free web version which is similar to the ipad/android versions for free. Getting the full version of Office is gravy if you need that kind of functionality, but you shouldn't include it in your calculations any more than any other app or program you are planning to buy. As for anti virus, Windows has a very robust anti virus/malware program included for absolutely free.

Well the reason I put it in my calculation is because iWork comes completely free with the iPad Pro.

As far as protection goes Windows Defender (a.k.a. Security Essentials) ok for home use, but I wouldn't consider it robust.

I'm not saying viruses don't exist for iPad because they do, but your odds of getting a virus and I'll be generous to Windows, is 5 viruses on an unjailbroken iOS device and ~150 apps made with a cracked version of XCode (that were patched almost immediately), vs over 850,000 viruses 6 years ago on a Windows PC (which is what the surface pro is). and at least 88 kernel flaws in Android in 2011, not to mention the infected apps in the App Store which at one point was over 200. Not saying Mac or iOS is without it's flaws, but I am saying that your odds of staying safe are a lot better with Apple.
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It can have the best hardware in the world, but useless for someone who is looking to run applications like Photoshop, Premier Pro, Autocad, etc.

I have a hard time believing the Surface Pro can run AutoCAD well since it's open source alternative blender's recommended requirements are SLI 960s.

 

[Azl]

Wow, I didn't think my comment about the hardware would cause that many responses...
Of course, you all have a point.

I just thought it would be something useful to add - since this thread was about comparing and specifically price.

Didn't mean to upset anyone

 

[mildocjr]

Hmm, you don't have to add Office. You can use the free web version which is similar to the ipad/android versions for free. Getting the full version of Office is gravy if you need that kind of functionality, but you shouldn't include it in your calculations any more than any other app or program you are planning to buy. As for anti virus, Windows has a very robust anti virus/malware program included for absolutely free.
[doublepost=1459800121][/doublepost]

malware bytes has a free version where you can run manual scans. But in my experience windows defender has caught much more malware that malware bytes doesn't detect. Now the windows equivalent of Mac for Office isn't the same as the windows equivalent of iOS, which is what the debate is about. The windows equivalent of Office for iOS is free on windows. I still opine the added costs are $0 comparing apples to apples.

In my experience of operating over 3000 servers in a cloud environment running Forefront Endpoint Security 2012, Malwarebytes has always been better and more often than not detected many more things that Forefront didn't pick up than vice versa.

Without the add-ons, yes, the surface pro is cheaper.
[doublepost=1459800935][/doublepost]

I like the ipads for fun...long battery life, web browsing, content consumption. I just don't think those functions are necessarily worth the price, although this is simply my own opinion of how to use my money. I don't want to begrudge others their opinion and if it's worth it to them. I must say that every time I get a chance to hold an ipad it always amazes me how thin and light they are.
[doublepost=1459794242][/doublepost]

Yeah but...so what? For all its power, can it run photoshop? AutoCAD? GTA V?

Yes there is a version of photoshop for it that does nicely, yes there is a version of AutoCAD that runs nicely, GTA V... most people who would want an iPad don't care about GTA V.

 

[spinedoc77]

Well the reason I put it in my calculation is because iWork comes completely free with the iPad Pro.

As far as protection goes Windows Defender (a.k.a. Security Essentials) ok for home use, but I wouldn't consider it robust.

I'm not saying viruses don't exist for iPad because they do, but your odds of getting a virus and I'll be generous to Windows, is 5 viruses on an unjailbroken iOS device and ~150 apps made with a cracked version of XCode (that were patched almost immediately), vs over 850,000 viruses 6 years ago on a Windows PC (which is what the surface pro is). and at least 88 kernel flaws in Android in 2011, not to mention the infected apps in the App Store which at one point was over 200. Not saying Mac or iOS is without it's flaws, but I am saying that your odds of staying safe are a lot better with Apple.
[doublepost=1459800559][/doublepost]

I have a hard time believing the Surface Pro can run AutoCAD since it's open source alternative blender's recommended requirements are SLI 960s.

I would still consider iWork equivalent to the free version of Office for iOS, but I can't say that with 100% certainty because I haven't used iWork in at least a year. You can make a case for viruses on any platform, you can even say that buying an ipad necessitates an anti-virus app as they are not free from viruses. Although didn't Apple kick out all the anti-virus apps out of the appstore? But I see your point about virus protection and I'm not saying you are wrong.

Anything that is differential can be seen as an extra cost though? No kickstand on the ipad, so there's another $30 you have to spend on a cover. Pen isn't included with the ipad, there's another $80 you have to spend. We could even get into some of Windows included functionality such as remote desktop, among many others, that iOS needs an app for and factor that up into the cost. Point is that we can throw anything into that "extra cost" category on either side.

 

[mildocjr]

I would still consider iWork equivalent to the free version of Office for iOS, but I can't say that with 100% certainty because I haven't used iWork in at least a year. You can make a case for viruses on any platform, you can even say that buying an ipad necessitates an anti-virus app as they are not free from viruses. Although didn't Apple kick out all the anti-virus apps out of the appstore? But I see your point about virus protection and I'm not saying you are wrong.

Anything that is differential can be seen as an extra cost though? No kickstand on the ipad, so there's another $30 you have to spend on a cover. Pen isn't included with the ipad, there's another $80 you have to spend. We could even get into some of Windows included functionality such as remote desktop, among many others, that iOS needs an app for and factor that up into the cost. Point is that we can throw anything into that "extra cost" category on either side.

Although didn't Apple kick out all the anti-virus apps out of the appstore?
Not the Mac App Store, just the fake ones that said they'd protect the device.
iOS is a "walled garden" and doesn't have a use for them, apps can't natively talk with the rest of the device and up until recently haven't been able to talk across apps. Now Apple just does some programming magic and sandboxes that data transfer too.

From my experience with my iPad, I've never had the need for a kickstand. Ever. As far as a cover goes, I don't need one, but I get one not for a kickstand ability but to protect the device from scratches so I can get more out of it when I sell it. $30 saves me at least $50.

Unless you are a graphic designer you don't need a pen and if you are then $100 is a good investment on your trade.
I've never had the need to circle things. (Is that all a stylus is good for?)

And iPad has an app for RDP and it's completely free.

At this point I'm going to stop debating this topic with you because I can tell you've never used an iPad before.

 

[Azl]

It would be helpful to know the ops intended use and existing setup...

Otherwise I think we have almost every point ov view covered,
would be Interested In the OP's decision