The iPad pro IS expensive (e.g., compared to surface)

[spinedoc77]

Although didn't Apple kick out all the anti-virus apps out of the appstore?
Not the Mac App Store, just the fake ones that said they'd protect the device.
iOS is a "walled garden" and doesn't have a use for them, apps can't natively talk with the rest of the device and up until recently haven't been able to talk across apps. Now Apple just does some programming magic and sandboxes that data transfer too.

From my experience with my iPad, I've never had the need for a kickstand. Ever. As far as a cover goes, I don't need one, but I get one not for a kickstand ability but to protect the device from scratches so I can get more out of it when I sell it. $30 saves me at least $50.

Unless you are a graphic designer you don't need a pen and if you are then $100 is a good investment on your trade.
I've never had the need to circle things. (Is that all a stylus is good for?)

And iPad has an app for RDP and it's completely free.

At this point I'm going to stop debating this topic with you because I can tell you've never used an iPad before.

Actually I used an ipad exclusively until the windows tablets came out, and then on and off for another year. I would opine that YOU haven't used a windows tablet, but I wouldn't stoop to that level, common intelligence telling me that you have used one before.

As for the kickstand, this is a perfect example of how we are doing nothing else than just throwing out our own use case scenarios. For me a kickstand is integral to the function of a tablet. How do you stand up your ipad when you want to view it on a table, or on your lap? How do you adjust the height you view it at? That cover was an extra $30 you need to add to the cost of the ipad. As for the pen, sure I agree with you, but then again if you don't need a full office suite you don't have to buy Office and maybe neither should necessarily be "bundled" in with the costs. iOS has a free RDP app, sure but then again Windows has a free Office app and free anti-virus.

Anyhow it's a silly point so we shouldn't waste more time on it. Compare the costs of the devices and not of extras which some may purchase and others won't, if cost is even a factor.

PS: AutoCAD does work, and I would opine that there are a ton of gamers using ipads and I'll bet a significant portion of them would pay if GTA V was available.

 

[I7guy]

Which goes along with my baseline of $60 a year that I had mentioned prior to the 3 years total of $180. I happen to just use Windows Defender and block ad content providers through my host file which does a good job of protecting me on it's own, I only install Malwarebytes if I know that I'll be surfing some questionable sites for testing or research. I'll run a scan with Malwarebytes probably once a month just to make sure everything is still good to go. But the fact still remains that if you use the Windows equivalents to Mac you'll still be paying more out of pocket if you are hardheaded and want to go with Office365 no arguing that. However, for those who didn't know about it, OpenOffice (LibreOffice) does exactly the same stuff as Office and is completely free. So yeah, I could have easily adjusted those numbers to make it sound cheaper, but your average person is going to buy Antivirus at $60/yr. and use Office365 not knowing they can buy the retail version for $150 upfront and save themselves some money. Besides if you get on the Office365 upgrade plan you save about $6 from the total retail price before the next version comes out with a "free" upgrade for the subscribers.

I would like to mention that I'm not Windows ignorant. I just know how most users think when they get a new computer.

OpenOffice doesn't do exactly the same thing as office 365 unless it sync to the cloud and runs on all your devices.

That aside its not the money it's the functionality where the sp4 won over the iPad Pro; which I think is great if you want consumption and an electronic pencil.

 

[ahostmadsen]

It would be helpful to know the ops intended use and existing setup...

Otherwise I think we have almost every point ov view covered,
would be Interested In the OP's decision

Yes, the answers in this thread (when not veering off topic) has been informative. I would use the iPad pro/Surface 3 non-pro mainly as a tablet (including handwritten notes) to supplement my rMB. And I think for that the iPad pro is probably better. The great thing with the Surface 3, though, is that I could also occasionally use it as a laptop, when I don't bring my rMB. The tradeoff would then be an inferior tablet experience. Neither is completely ideal, but in the end I will probably go for the iPad pro, keeping an eye on the development on the Windows side.

 

[gotluck]

So why ipad pro and not air2 for likely half the cost? Got money to burn or is the pen that important?

 

[ahostmadsen]

So why ipad pro and not air2 for likely half the cost? Got money to burn or is the pen that important?

Yes, it's an essential part of my workflow. Currently I use a pen on an Air 2, and it works, but not well.

 

[jeremiah256]

About five years ago, I would and did, look at maximizing my purchase $$$ and focusing on getting a powerful computer first, with the tablet being secondary. Now, because of how tablets have evolved and with the services and apps available, the tablet is my first priority, as I can do quite nicely with a much less powerful computer because tablets are more capable. Normal consumers have been here before. Once, not too long ago, desktops were recommended as the main computers, as laptops were not 'real' computers and only used for travel. As laptops become more capable, desktops were less popular.

 

[aneftp]

People get confuse with Microsoft Surface lines.

Surface pro 4 (12.3 inches) 128gb SSD $999 model (6th generation core I processors released in late 2015) vs iPad Pro 12.9 12.9 inches 128gb (A9x processor released in late 2015) $949 model is best comparison.

U can't compare a 2016 iPad Pro 9.7 inch model with its late 2015 A9X processor vs a surface pro 3 (4th generation Intel core I processors which were released in 2013) or the lowly Intel atom powered surface 3 (10 inch) (non pro)

 

[spinedoc77]

People get confuse with Microsoft Surface lines.

Surface pro 4 (12.3 inches) 128gb SSD $999 model (6th generation core I processors released in late 2015) vs iPad Pro 12.9 12.9 inches 128gb (A9x processor released in late 2015) $949 model is best comparison.

U can't compare a 2016 iPad Pro 9.7 inch model with its late 2015 A9X processor vs a surface pro 3 (4th generation Intel core I processors which were released in 2013) or the lowly Intel atom powered surface 3 (10 inch) (non pro)

Why not? For all the power the A9x processor has, it's useless if there is nothing to harness it. Even the lowly Intel atom powered surface 3 can run much more powerful software than the ipad pro. Of course this isn't because of specs, but because Apple used a watered down OS.

 

[I7guy]

Yes, the answers in this thread (when not veering off topic) has been informative. I would use the iPad pro/Surface 3 non-pro mainly as a tablet (including handwritten notes) to supplement my rMB. And I think for that the iPad pro is probably better. The great thing with the Surface 3, though, is that I could also occasionally use it as a laptop, when I don't bring my rMB. The tradeoff would then be an inferior tablet experience. Neither is completely ideal, but in the end I will probably go for the iPad pro, keeping an eye on the development on the Windows side.

I don't understand why you are comparing essentially a new generation product with a product that is one generation old; unless there is some budgetary constraints.

Maybe I'm missing it, but it seems to be a very cut and dry proposition as to whether windows or IOS suits your requirements. If your priority is handwritten notes on a table, probably ipad pro might be better. But if your priority is all around use in a windows world the choice is clear.

 

[FX120]

I have a hard time believing the Surface Pro can run AutoCAD well since it's open source alternative blender's recommended requirements are SLI 960s.

I run both Siemens NX and Solidworks on my Surface Pro 4 without issue. Some of the graphical niceties are disabled compared to my desktop (dual Quadro K5200's) but it has handled everything I have thrown at it so far, including some fairly complex aerospace assemblies.

 

[mildocjr]

I run both Siemens NX and Solidworks on my Surface Pro 4 without issue. Some of the graphical niceties are disabled compared to my desktop (dual Quadro K5200's) but it has handled everything I have thrown at it so far, including some fairly complex aerospace assemblies.

Can't have everything unfortunately, but impressive that it does that well and gets the job done well enough.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The difference to me is the iPad is a tablet, whereas the Surface is aiming itself at replacing a laptop. Unfortunately it falls short for me as its not powerful enough to replace my laptop. The iPad fits the criteria better for me but both have their place depending on individual consumer needs.

The iPad is also nearly £200 cheaper than the surface in the UK for the spec I am interested in.

 

[silentbob007]

I purchased a Surface 3 (non-pro) a few months ago for work. I'm a consultant, and I needed something that allowed me to access browser-based tools, use the full capabilities of WebEx conferencing, and take hand-written notes ... definitely not a power user, but some specific needs that an iPad simply cannot fulfill. Stacking a sale and coupons at Best Buy, I was able to get a Surface 3 (min spec), type cover, and pen for about $550 out the door.

The Surface 3 is not blazing fast. It's not a great tablet and you certainly cannot rely on much being in the Windows app store. Being able to install standard software, though, is very nice. I've not had the power on/off or wifi issues I had when a previously owned a Surface Pro 3 (that I sold about 1 week before the Surface 3 announcement). Writing feels good, however, and the pen came with several replacement tips. It does what I need it to and I'm glad I let my rational mind beat out the techie-inside that kept saying I should get a Surface Pro 4 because better specs!

 

[spinedoc77]

I purchased a Surface 3 (non-pro) a few months ago for work. I'm a consultant, and I needed something that allowed me to access browser-based tools, use the full capabilities of WebEx conferencing, and take hand-written notes ... definitely not a power user, but some specific needs that an iPad simply cannot fulfill. Stacking a sale and coupons at Best Buy, I was able to get a Surface 3 (min spec), type cover, and pen for about $550 out the door.

The Surface 3 is not blazing fast. It's not a great tablet and you certainly cannot rely on much being in the Windows app store. Being able to install standard software, though, is very nice. I've not had the power on/off or wifi issues I had when a previously owned a Surface Pro 3 (that I sold about 1 week before the Surface 3 announcement). Writing feels good, however, and the pen came with several replacement tips. It does what I need it to and I'm glad I let my rational mind beat out the techie-inside that kept saying I should get a Surface Pro 4 because better specs!

That's a great choice. I would have gone with a non pro version as well, but I wanted the largest screen.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Well it all depends on your workflow. I have a win10 powerful desktop. However, given the issues with the SP4, I went with the 12.9" iPad Pro, pencil, and Bluetooth keyboard. I love it. The pencil works for me. Procreate and notability work. Evernote works. And it all synchronizes perfectly.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

And there are some incredible deals on the 12.9" right now.

 

[Michael Goff]

Why not? For all the power the A9x processor has, it's useless if there is nothing to harness it. Even the lowly Intel atom powered surface 3 can run much more powerful software than the ipad pro. Of course this isn't because of specs, but because Apple used a watered down OS.

I would say it has more to do with the fact that up until recently, there has been no need for beefy software on iOS. I doubt the OS is holding back Photoshop these days.

 

[gotluck]

I would say it has more to do with the fact that up until recently, there has been no need for beefy software on iOS. I doubt the OS is holding back Photoshop these days.

yea Id wager it is mostly because there simply isnt that much 'workhorse' ,or whatever you want to call it, software written for ARM. using ARM for a main pc is quite new

 

[mrex]

I must say threads like PROVES that Microsoft approach for tablets and hybrids with a full desktop OS Windows is not the right way to go and that the iPad with a mobile OS(IOS) is definitely the right way to go and definitely here to stay!

The thread only shows that people who tell their opinions dont need a laptop and can do their stuff with a tablet. And most of them can be done even with a phone...

This thread doesnt prove anything about Surface.

 

[spinedoc77]

I would say it has more to do with the fact that up until recently, there has been no need for beefy software on iOS. I doubt the OS is holding back Photoshop these days.

No, a large part of it is the OS itself. One good example is Apple's stubborn refusal to give iOS mouse support. Granted Adobe can (and is) create a touch paradigm, but what happens when you want to connect that to a large monitor and do work better geared for a mouse. There are thousands upon thousands of programs on both mac and windows which would fall under the same category, where they would be limited by some aspect of iOS whether it was file support, mouse, or probably a hundred other things.

I much prefer Microsofts strategy, where they keep their OS and don't dilute it, but continually refine it so it works in both a touch/tablet experience, a desktop/mouse experience and even a small screen phone experience, but it still remains the same OS.

 

[Michael Goff]

No, a large part of it is the OS itself. One good example is Apple's stubborn refusal to give iOS mouse support. Granted Adobe can (and is) create a touch paradigm, but what happens when you want to connect that to a large monitor and do work better geared for a mouse. There are thousands upon thousands of programs on both mac and windows which would fall under the same category, where they would be limited by some aspect of iOS whether it was file support, mouse, or probably a hundred other things.

I much prefer Microsofts strategy, where they keep their OS and don't dilute it, but continually refine it so it works in both a touch/tablet experience, a desktop/mouse experience and even a small screen phone experience, but it still remains the same OS.

To me, it seems as though you're stuck in your ways of thinking. Ten or more years ago, you'd likely be talking about things like a fax machine or CD drive. When computers came out, people likely said about how things were more efficient the old way as well.

I could be wrong, but we shouldn't dismiss a new paradigm out of hand simply because an older one seems best right now.

 

[spinedoc77]

To me, it seems as though you're stuck in your ways of thinking. Ten or more years ago, you'd likely be talking about things like a fax machine or CD drive. When computers came out, people likely said about how things were more efficient the old way as well.

I could be wrong, but we shouldn't dismiss a new paradigm out of hand simply because an older one seems best right now.

iOS as a new paradigm for doing desktop like work? It hasn't significantly changed in 10 years. The reason for its existence IMO on the ipad is because Apple wanted their hardware to be thin, light and have long battery life. I applaud them for doing this as it needed to be done. Fast forward to today and that need isn't anywhere near as strong as before, and continues to weaken with every passing year. iOS was a necessary evil once upon a time.

When I start to see heavyweights on iOS such as photoshop, CAD, Office (full desktop version), etc x thousands then I can see your point. But iOS doesn't use programs, it uses "apps" which seem to be, by definition, watered down versions of their "program" counterparts. I would put more credence into iOS being a new paradigm if Apple replaced OSx with iOS, but they haven't and still see a clear need for a desktop like paradigm, heck they even see a need for it in their laptops which are portable similar to the ipad.

A fax machine or Cd drive being hardware is different, we aren't talking about changing the interface on them but rather completely replacing them with a new paradigm. iOS isn't replacing anything, it's just diluting it for a desired effect.

I also don't think MS is stuck in its ways, look at windows 10 and just how incredibly far they've brought windows into the modern age of smartphones, tablets and such, but without taking away the ability for it to run the millions of programs already out there which the majority of business in the world needs to run on. Don't get me wrong MS is far from perfect, but they seem to be the ones changing the paradigm the most IMO.

 

[MRU]

Yes, it's an essential part of my workflow. Currently I use a pen on an Air 2, and it works, but not well.

As someone who has been using his iPad Pro 12.9 as part of his workflow since getting it - if you are a graphic artist and work flow is mac based - the iPad pro for me is the better product. I had the i7, Surface Pro 2 before, however I found a plethora of issues regarding windows 3rd party software and HiDpi support, and some apps like Sketchbook Pro actually having noticeable drawing lag. Corel Painter 15 was nearly useless because of a combination of input delay and messy hidpi support which meant having to adjust scaling to 100% leaving menus and such so small that the whole joy of drawing became an exercise in frustration tbh.

For many the surface pro devices offer more options, but from my own perspective and using it in my workflow - it just didn't do the job satisfactory. It did it perfunctory.

The iPad Pro has become my wacom cintiq style tablet when I'm at home office and a much more enjoyable drawing / illustrating device when I'm away from it or relaxing on the couch. All the design apps sync with cloud and therefore work started can be continued later on other apps and most apps support the formats we are used to.

Never had an app crash and never had to battle the UI to get my work done. For me the iPad Pro has been a far better fit.

Despite the 'theory' that full blown OS windows and full blow apps would work better - sometimes the practice is very different to the theory. Making the difference in price or discussions on expense moot as it all has to boil down to the individual and their / your usage.

For me the iPad Pro 12.9 was expensive, but no more expensive (indeed less so) than the €1500 I spent on an i7 SP2 at the time - and offers me a more focussed, coherent product that works better for me.

So just buy what suits your needs. There is no automatic right or wrong.