iPad Pro The iPad PRO is finally PRO.

[Contact_Feanor]

Ok, I get your point. But if Apple makes 13 inch iPad Pro with MacBook style detachable keyboard (like they just announced) running macOS instead of iOS then that will basically replace MacBook Air. I don’t know how many units they sell but I bet MacBook Air is too popular to risk it. Unless… they price it well higher. The MacPad 2in1 I mean.

If Apple made a widescreen phone with an iPod app on it then that basically replaced the actual iPod. I don't know how many units they sold, but I bet the iPod is too pupular to risk it. Unless... Apple has always been pretty straightforward about preferring to cannibalise their own sales lest someone else do it for them.

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

If they don’t add a macOS option next month then all hope is lost

I wouldn't lose any sleep over that as Apple surely didn't just announce brand-new versions of iPads biggest Pro apps, Final Cut 2 and Logic Pro 2 for iPad, to just abandon them in the next iPadOS.

Just like iPhone, Apple wants you to use iPad as a "digital tool" that runs on a computer. But they don't want you to literally use it as a computer.

macOS is never coming to iPad.

Well, to not get too dramatic, macOS is without a shred of doubt not coming to iPads Pro M4. And if sales are as strong for M4 iPads Pro as Apple needs them to be, then the next one after M4 will be more of the same, sans macOS.

 

[Ludatyk]

I wouldn't lose any sleep over that as Apple surely didn't just announce brand-new versions of iPads biggest Pro apps, Final Cut 2 and Logic Pro 2 for iPad, to just abandon them in the next iPadOS.

macOS is never coming to any iPad.

Well, to not get too dramatic, macOS is without a shred of doubt not coming to iPads Pro M4. That much I know.

Facts! And it’s never going to stop people from asking or requesting… that much I know lol.

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

While I would love for Apple to allow virtualized alternative OSes on iPadOS that isn’t strictly necessary to fix the most glaring problems in iPadOS.

Background tasks need to be allowed to run freely if authorized by the user.

The Files app needs to be fixed so that it isn’t insanely slow and buggy. I’d rather have a macOS style system but I could work with an improved Files app.

The windowing system is still terrible on iPadOS. Just bite the bullet and give a free floating window mode. Problem solved. Anyone who likes the current system with stage manager can continue to use those modes.

Allow a developer mode that unlocks the system so I can install tools, including command-tools to do my job. This one is niche but it absolutely prevents me from using an iPad for anything except browsing, email, texting, watching tv & video, and reading books. I use an iPad mini 6 for that and it currently can cover 100% of my iPad usage.

I’d love a real iPad Pro but for me it doesn’t exist.

And it never will:

Considering that iPads sell better than Macs do, I don't see Apple doing anything more with iPad than we've seen so far.

Maybe incremental, iPadOS-style proprietary ways of manipulating files and installing plugins like you do on a Mac. But these will only get added over many years if ever.

And to be fair to Apple, a for-profit business like all the others, there genuinely and clearly is two separate demographics for iPad and Macs, even if the separation is by software and the hardware is identical.

Expecting Apple to cannibalize sales of two very successful products is futile.

Once Apple lets iPads run macOS, or combines a MacBook with an iPad, there's no more selling consumers on buying two $1000-$2000-ish devices.

We'd settle for one do-it-all "MacPad Pro" and what trillion dollar bottomline wants that?

 

[The Game 161]

Best thing about these are the display snd Apple Pencil

 

[Digitalguy]

You're kind of splitting hairs here. SSDs are NAND flash chips. Difference is that, in an SSD, NAND chips are linked up to a controller that handles incoming and outgoing data.

In the Mx Series, the SoC directly accesses the NAND chips, removing the abstraction layer provided by the SSD controller.

My understanding is that iPhones and iPads do swap to SSD (very aggressively, I'll add), but because there's no way for the user to see this, it is effectively transparent.

While I agree that SSDs are NAND flash storage, I think there is a misuderstanding here. Storage is not part of the SOC, it's just soldered to the board, so there is no removal of SSD controllers, which are still there.
Also, iPhone and iPads (other than M series) do not swap to SSD at all, they use aggressive memory compression (and ejection) contrary to desktop OSs. Swapping to storage was introduced with M1 but there is no information on how it works or how much it swaps to disk

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Also, iPhone and iPads (other than M series) do not swap to SSD at all, they use aggressive memory compression (and ejection) contrary to desktop OSs. Swapping to storage was introduced with M1 but there is no information on how it works or how much it swaps to disk

By your own admission, we don't know the details of iOS memory behavior. It's probably better that way, too. My M1 Mac swaps all the time and I don't even notice, so it's effectively transparent to most users.

I sometimes wish Apple would show us a peek of what's in their black box. At the same time I can see why they don't - how much extra do they make off people afraid of memory swap and buying more computer than they need?

 

[ric22]

And it never will:

Considering that iPads sell better than Macs...

Do they?

 

[NewOldStock]

Don't forget you are the pro and they designed the pro for you THE PRO!
Its all about YOU what YOU do with it isn`t it?

 

[Digitalguy]

By your own admission, we don't know the details of iOS memory behavior. It's probably better that way, too. My M1 Mac swaps all the time and I don't even notice, so it's effectively transparent to most users.

I sometimes wish Apple would show us a peek of what's in their black box. At the same time I can see why they don't - how much extra do they make off people afraid of memory swap and buying more computer than they need?

Oh we do know that iOS uses memory compression (and a lot) and does not use swap (other than M-series iPads). What we don't know is the exact criteria used by the memory management algorithm (or how disk swap is implementend in M-series iPads).

 

[aevan]

It is 100% sarcasm. LOL.

Hard to tell in this place, sorry 🙂

 

[millydog]

No floppy, no pro.. it should at least run computer os like dos.

I have DOS on my iPad. Unfortunately, it’s no longer in the App Store.

 

[CrysisDeu]

It might actually flex.. literally

 

[macfacts]

With all the upgrades the iPad Pro is actually PRO now. Even with an OLED display and a new M4 CPU it can flex 💪 on MacBooks.

cant program/make ipad apps on the ipad, still need a real computer.

 

[The Clark]

There will be nothing to flex if they don’t turn iPadOS around.

It’s still a fisher price operating system as far as I’m concerned, and I love my iPad Pro m2, but it’s MacOS with training wheels and I’m limited at every turn.

 

[macfacts]

Still need a real computer with iTunes to add music files.

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

Do they?

This graph and the total revenue from sales of iPad vs. Macs see Macs coming out on top every year. Sure.

But regardless of whether Mac our iPad means the most to Apple's bottomline, my argument still stands that iPads will never come to macOS:

Apple has given iPad:

• Full physical mouse/cursor
• Full physical keyboard support
• Aluminum Magic Keyboard that now is basically 1/1 giving you the look, feel and usability of a MacBook chassis and keyboard
• Two USB-C ports if you use iPad with Magic Keyboard
• Front-facing camera in the exact same position as on a MacBook
• The exact same SoC that we get in Macs, same RAM configurations as MacBooks
• Both Apple Pro apps, Final Cut and Logic Pro.

And yet no macOS or even just the ability to run the apps you already own on your Mac directly on iPad.

In other words, we are, over time, far more likely to get everything that we take for granted on Macs in a proprietary version for iPad than we are ever seeing macOS make it to iPad.

What cements this fact is Apple spending top dollar to develop proprietary versions of Final Cut and Logic Pro for iPad that aren't 1/1 copies of their macOS counterparts, and are only available to purchase with monthly or annual subscription fees, no single-purchase, perpetual licenses.

The only hope I have for macOS on iPad is Apple letting iPad function as a sort of "virtual hub" for macOS implemented in the exact same way as we see on VisionOS, where you can pair and run virtual app windows of macOS if you own and have a Mac nearby, singed into your iCloud account, that is "streaming" its output to iPad.

macOS coming to iPad only happens when Apple figures out a way to do so that requires the iPad owner wanting to run macOS on their iPad to own both a Mac and an iPad.

 

[Isengardtom]

Do they?

Figures flip back and forward. They sell more or less the same in revenue, macs recently more in part due to the iPad not getting updates in a long time, while we’ve had many Mac refreshes.

In units it’s likely the iPad sells more as the main selling iPads are the lower priced ones.

 

[Rogifan]

iPad doesn’t need macOS but Apple has done a terrible job explaining why iPad Pro exists. I get the feeling even Apple doesn’t really know why it exists. It also feel like Apple views iPad as competition for Mac. It shouldn’t. The competition is Windows/Android. So long as someone is buying a Mac or an iPad Apple should be happy. And the new 13” iPad Pro is more expensive than the 13” MacBook Air so the bean counters shouldn’t care either.

 

[seggy]

With all the upgrades the iPad Pro is actually PRO now. Even with an OLED display and a new M4 CPU it can flex 💪 on MacBooks.

Eh, just like the M1 it's probably derated compared to what's going to be in Macbooks

The M4 iPad Pro is just as forcibly-pro-capable-in-a-pinch-if-what-you-need-to-do-is-possible-within-the-limited-confines-of-iPadOS as it's been.

I do like the moves they're making to semi-cannibalise the lower tier of Macbook creators tho - it means I can do the actually pro things in Windows and then increasingly use the iPad Pro to do the trivial stuff that I'd previously have needed a Macbook as well for.

'course, they're still getting the money of a Macbook out of me in the process, because Apple.

I will be waiting into the later part of this year before upgrading my M1's tho, for all of the early adopters to experience the inevitable engineering problems also because Apple - and for them to be stealth fixed.

 

[ric22]

This graph and the total revenue from sales of iPad vs. Macs see Macs coming out on top every year. Sure.

But regardless of whether Mac our iPad means the most to Apple's bottomline, my argument still stands that iPads will never come to macOS:

Apple has given iPad:

• Full physical mouse/cursor
• Full physical keyboard support
• Aluminum Magic Keyboard that now is basically 1/1 giving you the look, feel and usability of a MacBook chassis and keyboard
• Two USB-C ports if you use iPad with Magic Keyboard
• Front-facing camera in the exact same position as on a MacBook
• The exact same SoC that we get in Macs, same RAM configurations as MacBooks
• Both Apple Pro apps, Final Cut and Logic Pro.

And yet no macOS or even just the ability to run the apps you already own on your Mac directly on iPad.

In other words, we are, over time, far more likely to get everything that we take for granted on Macs in a proprietary version for iPad than we are ever seeing macOS make it to iPad.

What cements this fact is Apple spending top dollar to develop proprietary versions of Final Cut and Logic Pro for iPad that aren't 1/1 copies of their macOS counterparts, and are only available to purchase with monthly or annual subscription fees, no single-purchase, perpetual licenses.

The only hope I have for macOS on iPad is Apple letting iPad function as a sort of "virtual hub" for macOS implemented in the exact same way as we see on VisionOS, where you can pair and run virtual app windows of macOS if you own and have a Mac nearby, singed into your iCloud account, that is "streaming" its output to iPad.

macOS coming to iPad only happens when Apple figures out a way to do so that requires the iPad owner wanting to run macOS on their iPad to own both a Mac and an iPad.

I wasn't disagreeing with (or commenting on) anything else. I focused my reply, and wasn't entering the wider debate. 🙂 I also don't think we'll get MacOS on iPad, but iPad OS does massively need to grow up. Supposedly the bottom fell out of iPad sales during the past year, and they need to address how most people now view tablets as unnecessarily consumption devices.

 

[Ludatyk]

iPad doesn’t need macOS but Apple has done a terrible job explaining why iPad Pro exists. I get the feeling even Apple doesn’t really know why it exists. It also feel like Apple views iPad as competition for Mac. It shouldn’t.

Apple views iPad as competition for Mac? Wait a min... give me some evidence of this. Not once have I seen Apple release some sort of commercial between the two.

Heck, I don't see any compare section on their website between the iPad and Mac. If anything, Apple wants consumers to buy both lol. And they explained why the iPad Pro exist... just go watch the May 7th event. The iPad Pro likely is not for you... and that's okay.

 

[Rogifan]

Apple views iPad as competition for Mac? Wait a min... give me some evidence of this. Not once have I seen Apple release some sort of commercial between the two.

Heck, I don't see any compare section on their website between the iPad and Mac. If anything, Apple wants consumers to buy both lol. And they explained why the iPad Pro exist... just go watch the May 7th event. The iPad Pro likely is not for you... and that's okay.

I meant inside Apple. And I say that because of the way they neglect iPadOS. The only other explanation would be they want you to buy an iPad and a Mac. It’s not good when you have people like Jason Snell questioning why the iPad Pro even exists. Apple went back to the thinness well this time so they still don’t seem to hav a story for iPad Pro. Maybe it will become clearer at WWDC but my guess is that will be all about AI. Btw, I own an iPad Pro.

 

[Ludatyk]

I meant inside Apple. And I say that because of the way they neglect iPadOS. The only other explanation would be they want you to buy an iPad and a Mac. It’s not good when you have people like Jason Snell questioning why the iPad Pro even exists. Apple went back to the thinness well this time so they still don’t seem to hav a story for iPad Pro. Maybe it will become clearer at WWDC but my guess is that will be all about AI. Btw, I own an iPad Pro.

Neglect iPadOS? So... you telling me Apple hasn't made any improvements to it?

And regarding Jason Snell, he predominately uses a Mac... so, of course he would come to conclusion that the iPad Pro shouldn't exist (due to cost factor). I believe he uses the iPad Air.

I think people get caught up in iPadOS and the Pro moniker... when it's always been about the hardware when it comes to iPad Pro, Apple decided to cater for users who want the best-in-class iPad. It's no different than users wanting the latest iPhone Pro Max or the Apple Watch Ultra.

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

Figures flip back and forward. They sell more or less the same in revenue, macs recently more in part due to the iPad not getting updates in a long time, while we’ve had many Mac refreshes.

In units it’s likely the iPad sells more as the main selling iPads are the lower priced ones.

Considering that the average iPad, bought directly from Apple or at retail, sells for about 30%-60% less (or even lower) than your average Mac, I'd have to assume you are right on this.

Total units of iPads sold has to be way higher even if total revenue is a good bit less than Mac.

Sales of services and apps that fall under Apple's "Services" revenue category must also see way more profits coming from iPad owners and much less from those who only own a Mac, being that Mac owners can run anything they want on their computers whereas iPad owners always have to pay Apple, and can only use what's in Apple's App Store.