The iPhone is going to die unless…

[Allen_Wentz]

I'm serious.

I am advocating for "good enough" in the sense of "recognizing the limitations of the device." I don't expect my car to be able to tow as much as a Mack truck. I don't expect my laptop to be as powerful as a mainframe. I don't expect McDonald's to make food as good as I can get from a five-star restaurant.

Cell phone cameras are perfectly fine for taking pictures of damage from car accidents, or items that I am selling on Ebay, and have been for years now. If I am trying to make art or preserve memories for future generations, I will always use a real camera for that. My understanding is (the laws of physics being what they are) that it is basically impossible to make a quality camera and lens that is the size of a cell phone, anyway, and that they all end up using "computational photography" tricks to make decent-ish-looking pictures. I have zero interest in paying more for a phone with a marginally better camera function that still doesn't even match the picture quality or ergonomics of an actual camera.

We agree that it is quite amazing that it is possible "to make a quality camera and lens that is the size of a cell phone." I am amazed by it every day with the iPhone 16 PM, and if you do not believe me, Apple's excellent "shot on iPhone" work is incontrovertible. It does seem to defy the laws of photographic physics, but the solid image capture results repeat day after day.

Like you said, it is not fully the same. But like my Honda pickup truck can carry a quarter cord of firewood while a Mack truck might carry four cords of firewood, both trucks carry firewood and both camera types capture good images.

 

[uacd]

I have zero interest in paying more for a phone with a marginally better camera function that still doesn't even match the picture quality or ergonomics of an actual camera.

People often don’t really realize that the leap between iPhone X and iPhone 13 camera was so small that it is almost unnoticeable. And fun fact, it is not very noticeable on newer models either. I don’t see much difference between 11 Pro 12MP and 16 Pro “48”MP, slightly better sharpness but otherwise they are same computational nothing.

I can take old 5 or 5s and make better photos than 11, 14 or 16 can make… simply because processing was less aggressive.

When I had 5 I only dreamed of larger sensor and better autofocus. And when I saw this abomination 6, and then 6s, and then 11 Pro I was like “what is this camera doing to my photos??”. Unnoticeable or even fine in good weather, but at dusk… very bad. Especially autoHDR that is now automatically applied to every shot. And not every photo needs HDR

 

[Analog Kid]

Clickbait got me to click, against my better judgement. Lead post was as unremarkable as one would expect from a thread with a meaningless title.

People use phone cameras because they want to pull it out of their pocket and get a decent image without any effort. That's the reason I still take pictures with my phone, often even when I have my camera with me. Lack of manual control will cost them zero sales.

 

[uacd]

and yet you are too frugal to spend $50 on an app like Halide, or use Project Indigo for free?

The issue is that those apps are not convenient. Let me explain.

If I want a good shot on iPhone:

1. I shoot RAW
2. I edit RAW, in a best scenario my preset just works and I don’t need to touch anything
3. I save my result as JPEG
4. I delete RAW (because why would I need that?? It is useless now)

VS:
1. I open Camera
2. I click shutter button
3. I get a photo

It absolutely makes sense for Apple to add option to tune processing parameters, like Safari experimental features/Advanced menu. So I would be able to simply tune JPEG output vs wasting my time on RAW

 

[Analog Kid]

We agree that it is quite amazing that it is possible "to make a quality camera and lens that is the size of a cell phone." I am amazed by it every day with the iPhone 16 PM, and if you do not believe me, Apple's excellent "shot on iPhone" work is incontrovertible. It does seem to defy the laws of photographic physics, but the solid image capture results repeat day after day.

Computational photography is a huge part of that story, but it's also the latest chapter in the long saga of artists working within the limitations of their tools.

 

[uacd]

Bro it's ok, people will like my app (since no one offers this free) and in the future I could add a pro version idk and get some money or just leave it 100% free and people will like me ? + It's not that complicated to do... I'm gonna do something similar to Final Cut camera but for the photos !!

Unfortunately free apps are impossible for distribution on AppStore and one needs to subsidize Apple’s yearly developer account cost (100$/year), so the app needs to have some sort of price to cover this cost. So while one can make app “free”, there would still be dev account costs to pay, so you would in other words need to pay your own money to keep app free for all.

For this reason AppStore has ZERO open source applications: Apple has no interest in users having more freedom.

Meanwhile on Android there is Open Camera - open source camera app that allows to disable 95% of computational pipeline, control shutter, ISO and such. But it comes with caveats too - often (on some Samsungs) it doesn’t recognize all cameras

 

[jz0309]

The issue is that those apps are not convenient. Let me explain.

If I want a good shot on iPhone:

1. I shoot RAW
2. I edit RAW, in a best scenario my preset just works and I don’t need to touch anything
3. I save my result as JPEG
4. I delete RAW (because why would I need that?? It is useless now)

VS:
1. I open Camera
2. I click shutter button
3. I get a photo

It absolutely makes sense for Apple to add option to tune processing parameters, like Safari experimental features/Advanced menu. So I would be able to simply tune JPEG output vs wasting my time on RAW

nah, for those who want a "good shot" they will learn the app/tool. Just like in the old days, you learn how to use a Canon vs a Nikon vs xyx, and you rarely ever switch.
And no, I NEVER delete my RAWs just like I never threw a negative away. Those are the originals, once they're gone, they're gone for good.

what we are all forgetting is that smartphones put cameras in people's hands, in the billions.
Back in the pre-digital days, not only did you have to buy the camera, you had to buy film, develop it, make prints, get photo albums etc, lots of work, lots of time and expensive.
Today, a camera for 4+ billion people in a smartphone, most people just keep those photos on their phones, some store in cloud, some on a computer and the daily expenses are basically zero (except storage) and then some go through the process you outlined, but that is by far the minority ...

 

[Astuces iOS]

Unfortunately free apps are impossible for distribution on AppStore and one needs to subsidize Apple’s yearly developer account cost (100$/year), so the app needs to have some sort of price to cover this cost. So while one can make app “free”, there would still be dev account costs to pay, so you would in other words need to pay your own money to keep app free for all.

For this reason AppStore has ZERO open source applications: Apple has no interest in users having more freedom.

Meanwhile on Android there is Open Camera - open source camera app that allows to disable 95% of computational pipeline, control shutter, ISO and such. But it comes with caveats too - often (on some Samsungs) it doesn’t recognize all cameras

I have the apple dev subscription my friend

 

[wyliej]

We agree that it is quite amazing that it is possible "to make a quality camera and lens that is the size of a cell phone." I am amazed by it every day with the iPhone 16 PM, and if you do not believe me, Apple's excellent "shot on iPhone" work is incontrovertible. It does seem to defy the laws of photographic physics, but the solid image capture results repeat day after day.

Like you said, it is not fully the same. But like my Honda pickup truck can carry a quarter cord of firewood while a Mack truck might carry four cords of firewood, both trucks carry firewood and both camera types capture good images.

Agreed, but those who need to carry more firewood or take better pictures than a telephone can take are better served by getting the right tool for the job, rather than trying to tow a 53' trailer with a Honda or using a telephone instead of of an 8x10" camera.I'm serious.

(I have a 4x5 camera myself, not because I love big cameras, but because it can do things that smaller format cameras can't. It is sort of possible to approximate the look of tilt and shift of the lens and film planes digitally, but it never looks the same, plus it's cool to do it in camera and have the desired result on the actual film negative.)

 

[nekton1]

The iPhone isn't going to die. That is BS. The problem is, though, it will not change much more. However, it does make you ponder about how much more major innovation can really happen because they are already pretty advanced devices. We have really only gotten incremental changes the last several years, so are we at that point?

"Lack of innovation" is really a dumb statement; the wheel is round and you cannot innovate much more with it. I guess you COULD call them "Space Black" one year, and "Super Un-White" the next. Then, look at the "Double-Tap" feature on AWU2 that doesn't work on AWU1; it has been in Accessibilty settings and I recently discovered this so it is now on my AWU1...the watch that "doesn't support" Double-Tap. WTF?! How is that a "new" feature?

I think what WILL happen is that increasing prices and the walled garden will drive away users to other platforms; I think it already has and that movement will grow. It is certainly on my mind and I am looking into options. Also on my mind is the constant legal issues and bullying by Apple, but I guess when you are dining with the Litigant-in-Charge who leads by example you can get away with it. I am sick of the false ethics bragging coming out of CuperTimo. Maybe if they do the right thing to begin with they wouldn't be wasting money paying for lawyers and having customers subsidize their legal bullying.

With regards to the walled garden, why does it matter to ANYONE what I put on MY phone? This really pisses me off. I am the one who bought the damn thing. If I have the ability to put any app on it and it is a security/operational issue then that is MY problem to deal with; it doesn't affect anyone else's devices. But, I guess that only matters if it is a Chinese app...unless it is TikTok.

I don't want to hear "well go to Android, traitor!". That is more BS along with telling someone to use Gmail or WhatsCrap or any other app with lack-of-privacy issues (which, BTW, are on the App Store...). I honestly think all devices and apps should be interoperable for at least basic functions. It sucks that I am stuck with Apple because of a few things like Messages but I am looking at alternatives. FFS...my hearing aids will not even auto-switch when going from one device to another. If I take those out and put in my AirPods it magically works. But then I cannot hear.

The prices WILL continue to go up even if they automate every step of the process and make more and more profit (and they still won't repatriate manufacturing and their tax burden). That is why I think we need interoperability - I want the option for using another phone by any manufacturer I choose, to do with what I want to do, run any apps I want, and save some money.

What will chnage is user-changeable battery by 2026/7 b/c EU has mandated it — unless Apple wants to exit the EU market.

 

[sherwinzadeh]

Pro tip: In the regular Camera app, double tapping on the 1× zoom icon lets you toggle between 24mm, 28mm, and 35mm.

 

[Shirasaki]

Developers unfortunately didn’t think about regional pricing strategies. In some European countries for example 70$ which Halide is asking can get whole fridge of food, a fine restaurant dine with a glass of good wine or more than 2 kilograms of coffee, thats a lot of espressos.

They either need to decrease price globally or build a better sales strategy around the globe.

To be fair, developers only consider their pricing based on the living standards of where they are based, not a random poor country in South America. After currency conversion, some international users will be hit super hard. Depending on the scale of the dev team and revenue, it may not be feasible for them to tailor their products to better fit global market, meaning they have to sell their products at a much lower price than they can accept.

So yeah it can go both ways, and in the case of Apple? Pure unfiltered greed to NEVER lower their hardware and service prices.

Actually, after going to pro camera from iPhone, one wouldn’t wanna look at iPhone photos anymore. Especially after they ruined everything with trashy computations.

Yeah I basically assume whatever photo I take is never what it is but what computer wants me to see. Smartphone manufacturers can use whatever lenses they can come up with but none of them can offer high quality photos with minimal post processing anymore or ever. The world we see is not what the world is, sad really.

 

[Shirasaki]

What will chnage is user-changeable battery by 2026/7 b/c EU has mandated it — unless Apple wants to exit the EU market.

If that is indeed the mandate, iPhone will surely receive one of the most radical changes ever in iPhone history, considering they NEVER designed an iPhone with removable battery before.

 

[grammatica]

The idea that Apple will consumers what they want and not the other way around came from Steve Jobs. However, Jobs is gone. It's time to innovate and listen to consumers and the market.

 

[lk400]

Perhaps, but let’s be real. Only 0.001% of Apple users have that problem. Everyone else just points and shoots.

As is probably the best way with a smartphone camera. I’ve been photographing for 40 or so years and the idea of fiddling around with aperture, shutter and iso settings on this tiny sensor and lens seems a bit too much for me. It’s fiddling at the edges. If people want to do that, they can buy an app for it. If they want to explore exposing images more deeply, there are excellent and affordable cameras and lenses on the market nowadays. For everyone else, point and shoot.

 

[4k78]

What will chnage is user-changeable battery by 2026/7 b/c EU has mandated it — unless Apple wants to exit the EU market.

The EU is so ridiculous.

 

[MayaUser]

Cant believe there are still people seeking for attention or they think they are smarter than an trillion worth company with post like this

 

[racerhomie]

None will offer a shutter speed at longer than 1s for free unless it has ads or you cannot control other things.

I understand

 

[philstubbington]

Exactly. I still drag a Canon 750D and various lenses around on holiday, but take more photos with my iPhone.

Case in point this morning - you can’t do this with an iPhone

 

[jlwarlow]

If you want to take professional photos you could, I dunno, buy a camera?

This! My 15MP Canon takes better photo's than my iPhone 16 even in auto mode. The lense quality make most of the difference to the picture I find, and phone lenses just can't compete with DSLRs. As Chase Jarvis said though, “The best camera is the one that's with you.”

 

[hakuryuu]

So in the big 2025 we cannot control the iSO and shutter speed of the iPhone Camera while you can on android??? YOU NEED TO PAY ON THIRD PARTY APPS??? Damn this is sick… So yeah I’m going to take this problem seriously and if Apple doesn’t release an update or an app to control ISO, focus, shutter speed and WB… Well I’m going to make one…

Personally I would prefer that Apple makes one because it could be more native but yeah otherwise I will solve this problem.

I’m going to pile on and say that this has been solved, because it has, by multiple apps.

Also, this post was one of the most asinine that I’ve seen recently. The camera app isn’t going to make or break anything about the iPhone/iOS.

 

[philstubbington]

This! My 15MP Canon takes better photo's than my iPhone 16 even in auto mode. The lense quality make most of the difference to the picture I find, and phone lenses just can't compete with DSLRs. As Chase Jarvis said though, “The best camera is the one that's with you.”

Yup.

Have a wild guess which of these is from a Canon 750D with a zoom lens and which is an iPhone 16 Pro Max? 😂

 

[Parowdy]

I recently was dumbfounded that I couldn’t take certain pictures because the iPhone camera (app) HAS to know better.
I tried the Adobe (uhhhh) Indigo app (free) and was able to take the picture.
Had it been any other faster moving subject I wouldn’t have gotten jack.
Guess which is which.

 

[uacd]

Case in point this morning - you can’t do this with an iPhone

Well, you kinda can🙂

Took out 60x binocular one day and was able to do this. Was a hard task, but worth it - hadn’t had my DSLR functioning at the moment, and probably my fix lens zoom range would have been useless anyway

 

[uacd]

Pro tip: In the regular Camera app, double tapping on the 1× zoom icon lets you toggle between 24mm, 28mm, and 35mm.

I wish iPhone main camera was 35mm “as-is”, without digital zoom.

Default 24mm or 26mm on older/cheaper iPhones is too wide, too hard to frame a shot, as well as often it ruins portraits since you naturally look “uh, subject in the frame, mkay, lets shot!”, and then rediscover face proportions look weird, as if person gained 5kg (or maybe it is some sort of post-processing/beautification under the hood, dunno).

With narrower FOV you would simply “step back” to have a properly framed portrait and proportions would be great