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user1234

macrumors 6502a
Mar 3, 2009
834
653
Sweden
How much difference does the i7 make with Lightroom and 4K editing? I'm thinking the i5 may not only be cheaper but may also keep the temperature and fan noise down, and if the i7 has to throttle harder then maybe the difference isn't that huge under long term load?

I currently have an early 2013 rMBP that struggles with 4K and is very noisy with Lightroom running.
 

BuCkDoG

macrumors 6502a
Jun 13, 2013
643
263
My i5 / 580 iMac has arrived! So, w.r.t thermals:

– maximum load with Prime95 initially draws ~77W from the CPU. But this drops to 70W (thermal throttling!) and the fan goes to 2700 rpm. Stable at around 95 degrees and 70W power consumption.
– medium load with Prime95 (two cores) draws ~45W. Fan slowly fluctuates between 1200 and 1600 rpm. CPU temp 90 degrees.

The following are with Unigine running in the background:

– two loaded cores with Prime95 + Unigine Valley (50W CPU power usage total) = CPU core temp 95 degrees, GPU core temp 77 degrees, 2700 rpm fan. I cannot get the CPU to consume more than 60W. Notably, the FPS during Unigine do not drop, so it looks like the GPU keeps its cool nicely. It will not throttle.
– as soon as I quit Prime95, with Unigine still running, the fan goes to 1900 rpm and stay there. GPU die temp stays at around 77 to 80 degrees.
– if I start Prime95 again, but with only one thread (35W CPU draw), the fan spins down to 2300 rpm.

Ambient temperature is a toasty 25.5 degrees. Idle temps are about 46 degrees for CPU and GPU. All chip temperatures given are the die temperature. Not something nearby the CPU or GPU, but the temperature of the chip itself.

I conclude that the Intel CPUs run pretty warm. Even the fastest i5 is thermally-constrained. Although you need to push the CPU with a heavy sustained load in order to ramp up the fans, it's these loads that the i7 is good at. However, the i7 will probably throttle down to the same speeds as the i5. I would really advise against getting the i7 just for the sake of getting the highest specs – only get it if you really need it. And even then, it probably won't be much faster due to thermal constraints.

Most games shouldn't cause the fans to spin up to max, unless they're very CPU intensive. Especially if you use vsync to cap the framerates, so GPU utilization is lower than 100%, you should keep the iMac running cool and quiet.

If I guesstimate that the GPU can sustain using 95 W of power, this shows that there is a considerable difference between the iMac's ability to cool the CPU vs the GPU. Perhaps the difference lies in the fact that AMD solder the heat spreader to the chip, whereas Intel use a thermal paste. It's a bit strange.


A few other thoughts:
  • the minimum brightness setting is really dim. Even dimmer than my 2012 rMBP. I love it!
  • I do not notice the fan at idle. If I put my ear to the case, I can hear the fan motor (and maybe even the ticking noise people are talking about), but IMO it's much ado about nothing. In a quiet room, sitting in front, I can only just hear the very faintest rushing of air at idle. When sitting in front of the iMac I never hear the noise of the fan motor itself, no matter what the fan speed – only the rushing of air.
  • The fans at maximum speed are much less annoying – and subjectively quieter – than my rMBP.
  • the screen is amazing!
So even at max fan speed your still saying it's quieter than the rMBP so this is awesome to hear!
 

saberfi

macrumors member
Oct 7, 2015
84
95
Thanks for the input. So on your i5 575 is WoW playable at 5k and also what is your temps? I ordered the i7 580 and hoping to push it but want to know if I ordered a vacuum or an actual quiet machine.

WoW automatically shows 'iMac' as the resolution, which surprised me a bit - apparently it is 5K at 50% render scaling, so equivalent to 1440p.

I haven't upped the render scale to full 5K myself.

The idle temps are about 36C for both CPU/GPU and some 60C when playing WoW in battlegrounds (graphics presets in high), and fps cap set to 60. Ambient temp is around 24C.

Quite happy with the temps really.
 

BuCkDoG

macrumors 6502a
Jun 13, 2013
643
263
WoW automatically shows 'iMac' as the resolution, which surprised me a bit - apparently it is 5K at 50% render scaling, so equivalent to 1440p.

I haven't upped the render scale to full 5K myself.

The idle temps are about 36C for both CPU/GPU and some 60C when playing WoW in battlegrounds (graphics presets in high), and fps cap set to 60. Ambient temp is around 24C.

Quite happy with the temps really.

Ya this temps are absolutely acceptable and honestly quite cool for what your doing so I just say I am very impressed. I wonder what 100% render scale looks like then at what settings at 5k.
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,249
12,017
How much difference does the i7 make with Lightroom and 4K editing? I'm thinking the i5 may not only be cheaper but may also keep the temperature and fan noise down, and if the i7 has to throttle harder then maybe the difference isn't that huge under long term load?

I currently have an early 2013 rMBP that struggles with 4K and is very noisy with Lightroom running.
The 7700K is much faster than the i5 models for movie export. It's around 30-35% faster than the 7600K which is Apple's fastest i5, and even faster than the others. We're talking 50% faster than Apple's i5-7500 in the entry level 27" iMac.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...i7-7700K-i5-7600K-Performance-884/#Conclusion

pic_disp.php


The 7700K is also somewhat faster than the i5 models for Lightroom, but on average, less than 10% faster than the fastest i5.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...i7-7700K-i5-7600K-Performance-880/#Conclusion

pic_disp.php
 
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propower

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2010
731
126
– maximum load with Prime95 initially draws ~77W from the CPU. But this drops to 70W (thermal throttling!) and the fan goes to 2700 rpm. Stable at around 95 degrees and 70W power consumption.
– medium load with Prime95 (two cores) draws ~45W. Fan slowly fluctuates between 1200 and 1600 rpm. CPU temp 90 degrees.

Thanks SO much for posting all of this!
Wow - I am totally surprised at this! My 3.4 2017 with torture test on all four cores 100% load was around 40W for the CPU and never went above 70degC. Stepping up to 3.8GHz almost doubles that power and even 2 cores consumes more at 45W and kicks the fans. I already packed my test machine up for return but this is very unexpected.
 

Chancha

macrumors 68020
Mar 19, 2014
2,139
1,926
Thanks SO much for posting all of this!
Wow - I am totally surprised at this! My 3.4 2017 with torture test on all four cores 100% load was around 40W for the CPU and never went above 70degC. Stepping up to 3.8GHz almost doubles that power and even 2 cores consumes more at 45W and kicks the fans. I already packed my test machine up for return but this is very unexpected.
It really is quite remarkable to get an i5 to be throttled. Apple had better have an iMac chassis redesign along with the iMac Pro, or else how are they gonna put anything faster inside it.

I am glad to have waited out user reviews before placing my order for an i7/RX580, it seems to be a great machine on paper, but a jet engine in practice.
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,249
12,017
Thanks SO much for posting all of this!
Wow - I am totally surprised at this! My 3.4 2017 with torture test on all four cores 100% load was around 40W for the CPU and never went above 70degC. Stepping up to 3.8GHz almost doubles that power and even 2 cores consumes more at 45W and kicks the fans. I already packed my test machine up for return but this is very unexpected.
The i7-7700K 4.2 GHz is a 91 Watt TDP chip.
The i5-7500 3.4 GHz is a 65 Watt TDP chip.

They represent different chip classes. It should be noted however that the 3.8 GHz i5-7600K is also a 91 Watt chip.

Thus, these results are to be expected.
 
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Moriarty

macrumors 6502
Feb 3, 2008
436
208
So even at max fan speed your still saying it's quieter than the rMBP so this is awesome to hear!

Yeah, it's a bit quieter (note: my rMBP is the 15-inch from 2012, so it has two fans). I think it's mostly that the sound is much less annoying, because the frequency of the peak SPL is about 1.5 kHz for the iMac, vs. about 3 kHz for the rMBP. So subjectively, the iMac's fan is much less intrusive.

The iMac fan is only really loud-ish from about 2400 rpm, and those fan speeds only happen when you're pushing the thermal limits of the system.

The rMBP does win if both machines are at idle, but the iMac is still very quiet. My iMac with SSD is quieter than an external hard drive.
The 7700K is much faster than the i5 models for movie export. It's around 30-35% faster than the 7600K which is Apple's fastest i5, and even faster than the others. We're talking 50% faster than Apple's i5-7500 in the entry level 27" iMac.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...i7-7700K-i5-7600K-Performance-884/#Conclusion

pic_disp.php


The 7700K is also somewhat faster than the i5 models for Lightroom, but on average, less than 10% faster than the fastest i5.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...i7-7700K-i5-7600K-Performance-880/#Conclusion

pic_disp.php

All of those benchmarks assume that there is no thermal throttling. Show me benchmarks of the i5 iMac vs. the i7 iMac. Geekbench doesn't last long enough, you need to use something like Prime95 which tortures the CPU over several minutes.
 
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propower

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2010
731
126
The i7-7700K 4.2 GHz is a 91 Watt TDP chip.
The i5-7500 3.4 GHz is a 65 Watt TDP chip.

They represent different chip classes. It should be noted however that the 3.8 GHz i5-7600K is also a 91 Watt chip.

Thus, these results are to be expected.

Good point! I assumed they were all the same die and power class - just different "bins" ... The interesting thing for my uses (pro audio) - the "K" chips are probably not the best pick for balancing speed and noise. Thus - no i7 non K to look at. Keeping my 2013 Mac Pro is starting to look sadly like a better choice...
 

acls86

macrumors newbie
Jun 19, 2017
4
1
Just received my 5k iMac i5/580 with 512gb SSD.
In my quite room I can clearly hear the fan at 1200rpm, dunno how someone could not.

I had a chat with apple support, well they said its normal that the newer iMacs are louder.
 
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Einz

macrumors 6502
Feb 14, 2008
402
87
Even in a silent room? I can definitely hear the fans on my iMac at home.
Yes, silent room, just as quiet a my 2013 Mac Pro. If I put my ear close to the iMac about 5-6", I can hear the low hum of the fan. The fan in my 4 bay drive enclosure is louder than the iMac. I read some are complaining about the noise. So there must be some variant between fans?
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,249
12,017
I have a Core i7 870 iMac which has a 95 Watt TDP for the CPU. At idle and for stuff like browsing and PowerPoint, it's effectively silent. I say "effectively" because there is very, very slight ambient noise in the room and I can't hear it above that unless I put my head within 18 inches of the top of the iMac.

I'm hoping my 91 Watt Core i7-7700K that is supposed to come in a week is in the same noise class. If so, I will be satisfied. I don't mind if it revs up with h.265 encoding or whatever, but if I'm just surfing and doing Office applications, I want it to be effectively silent.

Note that I initially ordered the i5-7500 65 Watt iMac, but I cancelled that order before it shipped. The performance is just too low in comparison. It was probably only going to give me about a 40% speed boost vs. the old Core i7-870, which was already 7 years old. I prefer to double my CPU performance with each upgrade. Or at least get something with 50%+ more speed.
 

macdoofus

macrumors member
Jun 15, 2009
96
7
Just received my 5k iMac i5/580 with 512gb SSD.
In my quite room I can clearly hear the fan at 1200rpm, dunno how someone could not.

I had a chat with apple support, well they said its normal that the newer iMacs are louder.

Thanks. I think my plan of using 21.5" i7 non K 65watt is not going to work with the new normal is louder.
 

fotofan

macrumors regular
Feb 25, 2008
189
7
New Jersey USA
So my 27" Kaby i7 is still "preparing to ship", but I think I can hear the fans already starting to whir in China. Is this normal?
Do you all think I should cancel my i7 order, which I ordered after over thinking my original i5 order after reading too much internet chatter on Mac forums?
I hope nobody gets offended. It might be a true nuisance to some people, especially if you have it near a sleeping baby or something. But isn't this sort of thread typical the week after new hardware is released? Will let you know if it's a problem when I get it next week.
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,249
12,017
Yeah, people are overthinking this. If it's too loud for you, just return it.

I don't like loud computers either, still ordered the i7. And if it turns out it's louder than it should be, I'll return it. But if it's quiet, then great! But if I just go for the much slower i5 right from the get-go, I may have missed out on getting a faster-but-also-silent computer just because I worried too much.
 

propower

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2010
731
126
So my 27" Kaby i7 is still "preparing to ship", but I think I can hear the fans already starting to whir in China. Is this normal?
Do you all think I should cancel my i7 order, which I ordered after over thinking my original i5 order after reading too much internet chatter on Mac forums?
I hope nobody gets offended. It might be a true nuisance to some people, especially if you have it near a sleeping baby or something. But isn't this sort of thread typical the week after new hardware is released? Will let you know if it's a problem when I get it next week.

LOL - Mine has been preparing to ship since Friday... i7 as well... finger hovering over the cancel button as well :)
 

Ph.D.

macrumors 6502a
Jul 8, 2014
553
479
Out of curiosity: I know that some fan utilities can force a higher (faster) fan profile, but can any force a lower-speed (or off) profile (that is, up until some temperature)? You know, something like what the mBP does - silent while at idle or near idle?
 

badlydrawnboy

macrumors 68000
Oct 20, 2003
1,530
417
How much difference does the i7 make with Lightroom and 4K editing? I'm thinking the i5 may not only be cheaper but may also keep the temperature and fan noise down, and if the i7 has to throttle harder then maybe the difference isn't that huge under long term load?

I currently have an early 2013 rMBP that struggles with 4K and is very noisy with Lightroom running.

This is what I wonder about. I have a late 2014 retina 5K 27" (4 Ghz i7), and it is not as fast in LR as I would expect. When switching from Library to Develop, I see the spinning beach ball for a few seconds. Not the end of the world but strange given that I never got this on my Macbook Air or now on my 2016 Macbook pro. Over in the Adobe forums they speculate that the difference I'm observing is related to the 5k monitor, and the iMac's inability to drive it sufficiently. Interestingly, they argued that this is processor, rather than GPU dependent.

I do hear the fan on my 2014 i7 occasionally. It kicks on during Screenflow and some audio recordings, which is a bummer. I was hoping the 2017 i7 would be quieter... but it sounds like it may be louder? I'm not familiar with a lot of the specifics being discussed in this thread; if someone could answer that question I'd be grateful. Thanks!
 

johannnn

macrumors 68020
Nov 20, 2009
2,247
2,395
Sweden
But just to be clear, the fan noise is identical in the 2015 and 2017 model right? Both uses an identical 1200rpm fan at idle if I understands it correctly.

Out of curiosity: I know that some fan utilities can force a higher (faster) fan profile, but can any force a lower-speed (or off) profile (that is, up until some temperature)? You know, something like what the mBP does - silent while at idle or near idle?
I have tried ~three fan apps but 1200 is the minimum in all.
 

Chancha

macrumors 68020
Mar 19, 2014
2,139
1,926
This is what I wonder about. I have a late 2014 retina 5K 27" (4 Ghz i7), and it is not as fast in LR as I would expect. When switching from Library to Develop, I see the spinning beach ball for a few seconds. Not the end of the world but strange given that I never got this on my Macbook Air or now on my 2016 Macbook pro. Over in the Adobe forums they speculate that the difference I'm observing is related to the 5k monitor, and the iMac's inability to drive it sufficiently. Interestingly, they argued that this is processor, rather than GPU dependent.

I do hear the fan on my 2014 i7 occasionally. It kicks on during Screenflow and some audio recordings, which is a bummer. I was hoping the 2017 i7 would be quieter... but it sounds like it may be louder? I'm not familiar with a lot of the specifics being discussed in this thread; if someone could answer that question I'd be grateful. Thanks!
The LR issue was compounded. As far as I know, it was due to:

1) Retina / HiDPI screens for desktop OS were still new, and Adobe took longer time than Apple to optimize their apps to operate under such intense resolution. That's how Photos.app had no trouble working with 5K but LR kind of did;
2) The bandwidth required to drive 5K resolution has not changed from day 1, but the CPU/GPU that comes in the iMacs have improved over a few iterations;
3) Even under optimal settings, LR may still stutters / need to load longer for a high MP RAW. For a 36MP RAW from D800 for example, if the LR window is at full screen, in develop module (the only mode where you load the actual RAW not the previews), performance can take a great hit. Users have reported sizing down the LR window to approximately 2/3 of full screen pretty much eradicates the issue.

I have heard that on the 2015 5K, especially top spec model, these issues are all gone, probably due to extra power in hardware that gave enough headroom for LR to breathe, or that Adobe has done some work on their code. If you are truly concerned then you may want to wait out the iMac 2017 LR user reports to be extra sure. On paper, even the base model i5 and RX570 are already pretty much on par with top spec'd 2015.
 

acls86

macrumors newbie
Jun 19, 2017
4
1
Just received my 5k iMac i5/580 with 512gb SSD.
In my quite room I can clearly hear the fan at 1200rpm, dunno how someone could not.

I had a chat with apple support, well they said its normal that the newer iMacs are louder.

Apple is ok with sending me a second one without me sending them the old one back before I can compare them.
I'll compare them side by side if there is a difference in fan noise.
 
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