The new iMac is a lot noisier!

[propower]

My normal Audio workload will put a steady 20% - 30% (of maximum) load on the CPU. If this ramps fans up to 2000+ it will be no good for me. If it stays at 1200 rpm - it will be great. That's just a reality for me. I ideally want it to stay at 1200 to ~50% load. For heavy lifting 50%+ I can deal. Will know more in a just a few days and post back .

 

[EugW]

My normal Audio workload will put a steady 20% - 30% (of maximum) load on the CPU. If this ramps fans up to 2000+ it will be no good for me. If it stays at 1200 rpm - it will be great. That's just a reality for me. I ideally want it to stay at 1200 to ~50% load. For heavy lifting 50%+ I can deal. Will know more in a just a few days and post back .

Hmm... It will be interesting to hear your results. Just remember though that 30% on the 7500 might only be 20% on the 7700K.

20% CPU load isn't a huge deal, but nonetheless actual testing will prove interesting. Please post your results when you're done.

 

[Sheza]

Is our concern thus surely with the i7? Or could loud fan noises be due t the 580? I am trying to decide if I want a 570, 575 or 580... I'd be less inclined to get the 580 if it caused a lot of heat & noise.

 

[Moriarty]

May I ask you to test something specific with Lightroom?
1) batch RAW processing (preview generation), probably 15 minutes or more
2) high megapixel RAW adjustment in develop module, full screen on 5K
These 2 tasks have been the most usual performance bottlenecks for previous generations of 5K iMacs
If the i5-7600k can handle these without firing fans noisily then I am going to place an order basing on that right away.

I did a little bit of Lightroom and the CPU never got very hot. Batch 1:1 preview generation doesn't even break a sweat and the fan remains at idle (~40 W CPU power, CPU at < 75 degrees, GPU at < 55 degrees).

Lightroom can't really push the CPU like Prime95 can, so you'll likely only see the 7600K draw up to about 55 W. That amount of power consumption will get the CPU quite warm but not really ramp up the fans.

The only realistic loads that will ramp up the fan loudly (i.e. > 2400 rpm) on the i5 / 580 model are:

– intensive GPU + CPU load that's sustained over at least a few minutes, e.g. a game that also has very high CPU requirements, maybe 4K video editing (though I've not tried that)
– a CPU task that's very FPU-intensive, e.g. scientific computing, can get the CPU to draw 70 W and max out the fan. However, few real-world jobs can do this, so it's not much of a cause for concern. Most tasks (e.g. Handbrake) are more "unpredictable" and cannot load the CPU efficiently enough to make it draw enough power to ramp up the fan.

You almost have to try to get the i5 / 580 system to heat up. I'm very pleased with the thermal performance.

On the flip side: if the i7 can easily draw at least 70 W under real-world loads such as Lightroom preview generation and Handbrake – which I suspect that it will – then that power consumption is going to ramp up the fan to high rpm within a few minutes.

I'm done testing the thermals of my new iMac. In a few weeks time, I'll probably have forgotten that it even has a fan.

TL;DR: for noise-sensitive people, don't get the i7. However, the i5 / 580 model will probably stay quiet enough. You can always return it for the base model (with the slowest i5 and Radeon 570) if you never want to hear the fan under any circumstances, but the i5 / 580 is a reasonably safe bet.

 

[Chancha]

I did a little bit of Lightroom and the CPU never got very hot. Batch 1:1 preview generation doesn't even break a sweat and the fan remains at idle (~40 W CPU power, CPU at < 75 degrees, GPU at < 55 degrees).

Lightroom can't really push the CPU like Prime95 can, so you'll likely only see the 7600K draw up to about 55 W. That amount of power consumption will get the CPU quite warm but not really ramp up the fans.

The only realistic loads that will ramp up the fan loudly (i.e. > 2400 rpm) on the i5 / 580 model are:

– intensive GPU + CPU load that's sustained over at least a few minutes, e.g. a game that also has very high CPU requirements, maybe 4K video editing (though I've not tried that)
– a CPU task that's very FPU-intensive, e.g. scientific computing, can get the CPU to draw 70 W and max out the fan. However, few real-world jobs can do this, so it's not much of a cause for concern. Most tasks (e.g. Handbrake) are more "unpredictable" and cannot load the CPU efficiently enough to make it draw enough power to ramp up the fan.

You almost have to try to get the i5 / 580 system to heat up. I'm very pleased with the thermal performance.

On the flip side: if the i7 can easily draw at least 70 W under real-world loads such as Lightroom preview generation and Handbrake – which I suspect that it will – then that power consumption is going to ramp up the fan to high rpm within a few minutes.

I'm done testing the thermals of my new iMac. In a few weeks time, I'll probably have forgotten that it even has a fan.

TL;DR: for noise-sensitive people, don't get the i7. However, the i5 / 580 model will probably stay quiet enough. You can always return it for the base model (with the slowest i5 and Radeon 570) if you never want to hear the fan under any circumstances, but the i5 / 580 is a reasonably safe bet.

Thank you very much for your test. I was under the shadow with preview generation in Lightroom because the previous Macs I owned all kind of struggled with it, but of course they were much older Macs with lesser CPU, despite being i7 or even Xeon (MBP2011, Mini2012, MP1,1). The newest Mac I have now is a maxed out MBP15" 2015 which still fires up its fans during preview generation within like 15 seconds, the load on each core is less than 50% but it seems even that kind of load is already enough so. Of course on a MacBook vs an iMac we got totally different airflow efficiency, while the LR tasks are the same.

It is sounding more and more probable that the i5-7600 is hitting the sweet spot in terms of performance vs noise ratio, for this particular generation of iMac lineup.

 

[EugW]

I did a little bit of Lightroom and the CPU never got very hot. Batch 1:1 preview generation doesn't even break a sweat and the fan remains at idle (~40 W CPU power, CPU at < 75 degrees, GPU at < 55 degrees).

Lightroom can't really push the CPU like Prime95 can, so you'll likely only see the 7600K draw up to about 55 W. That amount of power consumption will get the CPU quite warm but not really ramp up the fans.

The only realistic loads that will ramp up the fan loudly (i.e. > 2400 rpm) on the i5 / 580 model are:

– intensive GPU + CPU load that's sustained over at least a few minutes, e.g. a game that also has very high CPU requirements, maybe 4K video editing (though I've not tried that)
– a CPU task that's very FPU-intensive, e.g. scientific computing, can get the CPU to draw 70 W and max out the fan. However, few real-world jobs can do this, so it's not much of a cause for concern. Most tasks (e.g. Handbrake) are more "unpredictable" and cannot load the CPU efficiently enough to make it draw enough power to ramp up the fan.

You almost have to try to get the i5 / 580 system to heat up. I'm very pleased with the thermal performance.

On the flip side: if the i7 can easily draw at least 70 W under real-world loads such as Lightroom preview generation and Handbrake – which I suspect that it will – then that power consumption is going to ramp up the fan to high rpm within a few minutes.

I'm done testing the thermals of my new iMac. In a few weeks time, I'll probably have forgotten that it even has a fan.

TL;DR: for noise-sensitive people, don't get the i7. However, the i5 / 580 model will probably stay quiet enough. You can always return it for the base model (with the slowest i5 and Radeon 570) if you never want to hear the fan under any circumstances, but the i5 / 580 is a reasonably safe bet.

Hmmm... Now you're making me wonder if I should swap this i7 for an i5-7600K.

I installed mpv:

https://mpv.io

Then I downloaded this Camp (Nature) 4K HDR Demo (Sony) file:

http://www.4ktv.de/testvideos/

Drag and drop the video file into mpv to play it. It's pretty easy to get CPU core 1 over 100C according to iStat Menu so the fan ramps up to 2000+ rpm after playing it a couple of times, which is pretty noticeable. If the 7600K really is staying that much cooler it could be worth it to give up the extra performance. Any easy solution would just be turn off hyperthreading for regular use and then when desired (eg. Handbrake encoding) turn it back on again, but the problem is Apple doesn't make it easy to do this.

I know you said you're done with the thermals testing, but would you be willing to try playing that video with mpv? It may take a couple of times of playing (short video) to make the temp increase. If your fan stays quiet, I'd consider going down to the 7600K and returning my 7700K.

EDIT:

So I took that Sony video file and converted it to h.265 HEVC using Handbrake with their H.265 MKV 1080p30 preset.

CPU usage went up to as high as 790% (!) with fan maxed out to 2700 rpm. Actually, the noise for Handbrake didn't really bother me that much though, since it's not as annoying as the fan on my other computer. It was mostly annoying when playing that Sony video. Temps for all four cores was in the mid-90s. But then again, I wouldn't be playing this type of video for enjoyment in the first place, because I'd rather just watch a 1080p video rather than try to software decode a 4K 60 fps HEVC 10-bit file. I'll have to try to do some High Sierra testing.

Note though, Handbrake is very fast with this CPU. According to this Handbrake video encoding comparison, the 7700K is roughly 25-35% faster than the 7600K.

BTW, now that I'm just surfing again, CPU temps are down to 40C, and the computer is completely silent.


Hmm... Maybe I'll just keep it.

 

[iMi]

Is our concern thus surely with the i7? Or could loud fan noises be due t the 580? I am trying to decide if I want a 570, 575 or 580... I'd be less inclined to get the 580 if it caused a lot of heat & noise.

The only issue I see is that the GPU is not user upgradable. It's partially why I always try to go for the highest tier on the iMac. The performance difference between the three tiers is significant. Noise is always a concern. It's a hard act to balance.

 

[EugW]

The only issue I see is that the GPU is not user upgradable. It's partially why I always try to go for the highest tier on the iMac. The performance difference between the three tiers is significant. Noise is always a concern. It's a hard act to balance.

I probably will never need 8 GB, but who knows. I plan on keeping this machine a long time. So I went for the i7 with 8 GB 580.

Interestingly, the cost wasn't much more than the i7 with 4 GB 575, due to Apple's configuration choice limitations. In fact, in some scenarios in the US, it's actually $0-$20 more to go with the 580 vs the 575, depending upon the configuration. In Canada the difference in price was CAD$84, so essentially I'm paying US$63 for 4 GB extra video RAM. I've been told that if we ever want to do VR, the only one of the three setups that is truly viable is the i7 with 580... but then again I'm not a big VR guy.

 

[BuCkDoG]

My i7 580 512SSD arrives this week so I'll be able to hammer on that CPU and GPU for you guys as well and report back the db for the noise of the fans.

 

[bry223]

Just received my 5k iMac i5/580 with 512gb SSD.
In my quite room I can clearly hear the fan at 1200rpm, dunno how someone could not.

I had a chat with apple support, well they said its normal that the newer iMacs are louder.

Maybe I have hearing issues, but I really can't hear the fan on the same model. I've been running some benchmarks and done some gaming, but to me its been very very quiet.

 

[iMi]

I probably will never need 8 GB, but who knows. I plan on keeping this machine a long time. So I went for the i7 with 8 GB 580.

Interestingly, the cost wasn't much more than the i7 with 4 GB 575, due to Apple's configuration choice limitations. In fact, in some scenarios in the US, it's actually $0-$20 more to go with the 580 vs the 575, depending upon the configuration. In Canada the difference in price was CAD$84, so essentially I'm paying US$63 for 4 GB extra video RAM. I've been told that if we ever want to do VR, the only one of the three setups that is truly viable is the i7 with 580... but then again I'm not a big VR guy.

In addition to the extra 4GB memory you are also getting about 20% better compute power. The 575 gets 4.5 TFLOPS while the 580 delivers 5.5 TFLOPS. That is a fairly significant difference. Given the price difference, it's a no brainer to me.
[doublepost=1498053949][/doublepost]

Maybe I have hearing issues, but I really can't hear the fan on the same model. I've been running some benchmarks and done some gaming, but to me its been very very quiet.

I have a partial asymmetrical hearing loss. I guess I'll just turn my head and look out the window while intensive processes are running. Problem meet solution.

 

[badlydrawnboy]

I did a little bit of Lightroom and the CPU never got very hot. Batch 1:1 preview generation doesn't even break a sweat and the fan remains at idle (~40 W CPU power, CPU at < 75 degrees, GPU at < 55 degrees).

Lightroom can't really push the CPU like Prime95 can, so you'll likely only see the 7600K draw up to about 55 W. That amount of power consumption will get the CPU quite warm but not really ramp up the fans.

The only realistic loads that will ramp up the fan loudly (i.e. > 2400 rpm) on the i5 / 580 model are:

– intensive GPU + CPU load that's sustained over at least a few minutes, e.g. a game that also has very high CPU requirements, maybe 4K video editing (though I've not tried that)
– a CPU task that's very FPU-intensive, e.g. scientific computing, can get the CPU to draw 70 W and max out the fan. However, few real-world jobs can do this, so it's not much of a cause for concern. Most tasks (e.g. Handbrake) are more "unpredictable" and cannot load the CPU efficiently enough to make it draw enough power to ramp up the fan.

You almost have to try to get the i5 / 580 system to heat up. I'm very pleased with the thermal performance.

On the flip side: if the i7 can easily draw at least 70 W under real-world loads such as Lightroom preview generation and Handbrake – which I suspect that it will – then that power consumption is going to ramp up the fan to high rpm within a few minutes.

I'm done testing the thermals of my new iMac. In a few weeks time, I'll probably have forgotten that it even has a fan.

TL;DR: for noise-sensitive people, don't get the i7. However, the i5 / 580 model will probably stay quiet enough. You can always return it for the base model (with the slowest i5 and Radeon 570) if you never want to hear the fan under any circumstances, but the i5 / 580 is a reasonably safe bet.

So if I rarely do batch processing in LR, but am just viewing/editing RAW files individually would that be enough to draw 70W and kick the fan up?

What about recording screencasts/videos with Screenflow? What about recording audio with GarageBand and or Skype/Call Recorder?

I'm still trying to decide between the i5 and i7. Seems like the i5 would be enough for my needs in almost all situations, but I'm a little concerned about LR performance given that my current late 2014 5k 4Ghz i7 iMac struggles a bit (I get the spinning beach ball when switching back and forth between Library and Develop).

 

[Stacc]

I just received my Core i7/580 Pro 27" iMac. As a first time iMac buyer, while it is silent at idle or moderate loads I am surprised at how loud the fan gets under load. I first noticed it while installing Xcode, and I have also noticed it when gaming. However, I would much rather have the additional performance than the guaranteed quiet operation.

 

[omenatarhuri]

I'm coming from the 2011 MBP and find the 2017 iMac quite good indeed. With idle there's a whisper, haven't found it distractingly loud yet. *knock wood*

I deliberately chose 512 SSD over Fusion drive and 3.8 i5 over i7 to reduce heat load and noise.

 

[badlydrawnboy]

Just saw the cover article on Macrumors with benchmarks of the 2017 iMac as well as previous models. My late 2014 i7 is faster than the fastest 2017 i5, at least in terms of the Geekbench multicore performance. Makes me wonder if I'd see much of a difference in LR if I upgrade to the 2017 iMac and go with the i5 (favoring quiet over speed) instead of the i7.

 

[Stacc]

Just saw the cover article on Macrumors with benchmarks of the 2017 iMac as well as previous models. My late 2014 i7 is faster than the fastest 2017 i5, at least in terms of the Geekbench multicore performance. Makes me wonder if I'd see much of a difference in LR if I upgrade to the 2017 iMac and go with the i5 (favoring quiet over speed) instead of the i7.

There probably not much difference. LR is mostly CPU and disk IO bottlenecked, and Intel's processor improvements have been fairly incremental since then. My advice would be to wait another generation, when the iMac adopts coffee lake and should come with a 6 core CPU.

 

[bcortens]

Is our concern thus surely with the i7? Or could loud fan noises be due t the 580? I am trying to decide if I want a 570, 575 or 580... I'd be less inclined to get the 580 if it caused a lot of heat & noise.

Definitely the i7, I have the i7 + 580 and I have a hard time getting the GPU above 85ºC but the CPU will roar past 90ºC with little effort.

 

[badlydrawnboy]

There probably not much difference. LR is mostly CPU and disk IO bottlenecked, and Intel's processor improvements have been fairly incremental since then. My advice would be to wait another generation, when the iMac adopts coffee lake and should come with a 6 core CPU.

I'm coming to this conclusion as well. It seems like the most recent version of LR made some improvements, and I'm not getting the spinning beach ball as much as I was before.

 

[ecp77]

Is our concern thus surely with the i7? Or could loud fan noises be due t the 580? I am trying to decide if I want a 570, 575 or 580... I'd be less inclined to get the 580 if it caused a lot of heat & noise.

I just received my new iMac 27 i7 with the 8 gb gpu 1 tb ssd. The first thing I did was to remove the stock ram and throw in 32 gigs of CL14 Kingston RAM.

I was initially worried about the comments in here regarding fan noise. The first day of ownership I imported 50 gigs of photos into the photos app, set up the computer and my web accounts, tested this and that, created users accounts, copied my archive files into the machine from an external disk and so forth. I also enabled encyption on the entire iMac ssd disk. During this my iMac was making noise like crazy, but after the imports were done and I finished "setting it up"it has been more or less dead quiet, and I have heard no noise at all. I can hear a very very faint steady fan noise, but I really have to listen closely in order no hear it.

I would not worry at all about getting the i7 and the 8gb gpu. During normal use (like browsing, watching watching high res photos and stuff it is close to dead silent) and in the background its still encrypting like crazy now but with no noise at all.

I think people are overanalyzing this - just get the i7 with the 8 gb gpu - thats my warm recommendation after having owned it for only a couple of days. The computer itself is fantastic. Super fast compared to my 6 year old laptop. Really happy with it and really happy with regard to how cool it runs and how silent it is.

 

[Sheza]

I just received my new iMac 27 i7 with the 8 gb gpu 1 tb ssd. The first thing I dis was to remove the stock ram and throw in 32 gigs of CL14 Kingston RAM.

I was initially worried about the comments in here regarding fan noise. The first day of ownership I imported 50 gigs of photos in the photos app, set up the computer and web accounts, tested this and that, created users accounts, copied my archive files into the machine from an external disk and so forth. I also enabled encyption on the entire iMac sad disk. During this my iMac was making noise like crazy, but after the imports were done and I finished "setting it up"it has been more or less dead quiet. I can hear a very very faint steady fan noise, but I really have to listen closely in order no hear it.

I would not worry at all about getting the i7 and the 8gb gpu. During normal use (like browsing, watching watching high res photos and stuff it is close to dead silent) and in the background its still encrypting like crazy now but with no noise at all.

I think people are overanalyzing this - just get the i7 with the 8 gb gpu - thats my warm recommendation after having owned it for only a couple of days. The computer itself is fantastic. Super fast compared to my 6 year old laptop. Really happy with it.

It's hard for me because, on the one hand, I'm coming from a gaming PC that has an i7 at 4.2GHz and an R9 290x, which is roughly equivalent to the top-tier i5 and Pro 850 in these new iMacs. But then, I never really utilised the full power of the i7. I don't really need its multi-threaded capabilities. I am currently leaning towards saving some money and getting the base model 27 iMac with 24GB RAM (8+16 third party) and the 512GB SSD.

It's £369 more for me to get the 580. But I don't really know if I need all that GPU power, I likely won't have the time to game much in the future. I get the feeling I would want to upgrade for want of a new form factor before the performance starts to become an issue.

With the i7 being a level of performance I simply don't need, coupled with the fan noise, I don't think I will get that. It's the 570 vs 580 which I am more struggling with.

 

[Robbo1]

My 27" i7 580 1TB SSD arrived yesterday. For all of the time I spent setting it up, copying files, installing software (including Win 10 via Parallels) , configuring iTunes, web browsing, etc., the fan never went higher than idle (1200 rpm) and was barely noticeable. Even watching 4K youtube videos at full screen wouldn't make the fan speed up (but man did they look gorgeous). I did get a chance to play a bit of Xcom2 (Mac OS) at 1440p (mid 30s FPS) and after a minute or so that did drive the fan up to 2500-2700 rpm which was definitely noticeable, though not terrible over the sounds of the game.

 

[cmbarclay]

My 27" i7 580 1TB SSD arrived yesterday. For all of the time I spent setting it up, copying files, installing software (including Win 10 via Parallels) , configuring iTunes, web browsing, etc., the fan never went higher than idle (1200 rpm) and was barely noticeable. Even watching 4K youtube videos at full screen wouldn't make the fan speed up (but man did they look gorgeous). I did get a chance to play a bit of Xcom2 (Mac OS) at 1440p (mid 30s FPS) and after a minute or so that did drive the fan up to 2500-2700 rpm which was definitely noticeable, though not terrible over the sounds of the game.

I received mine today i7, 580, 2TB ssd and I have the same experience as you. So glad I went with the i7.

 

[propower]

First testing of i7 for audio

YES tests
Stress test i7 4.2 (at idle ~50degC 1198rpm 10W
1 YES = 15%CPU 27W after 10min Peak between 56 to 80degC moving around
2 YES = 26%CPU 38W CPU after 10min Peak between 60 - 80degC 1200rpm
3 YES = 38%CPU 58W CPU after 10min Peak between 75 - 91degC 1200rpm
4 YES = 51%CPU 69W CPU …… 95degC ~2000 to 2400 rpm
IMO - not an obnoxious fan but for me and audio 1200 fan is needed. To have the fans ramp up for intensive short term tasks is no trouble though (video encoding).

Did a quick LogicPro X stress test...
106 audio tracks
4 drummers
Compressor, chorus, EQ on every track (300 plugins)
Master with limiter
Reverb
Not representative of what my sessions look like but its a simple stress test to start.
25% steady CPU load - very even. ~80degC (spikes above this but only on 1 core at a time) and 1200 rpm fan

Looking good so far!

 

[EugW]

First testing of i7 for audio

YES tests
Stress test i7 4.2 (at idle ~50degC 1198rpm 10W
1 YES = 15%CPU 27W after 10min Peak between 56 to 80degC moving around
2 YES = 26%CPU 38W CPU after 10min Peak between 60 - 80degC 1200rpm
3 YES = 38%CPU 58W CPU after 10min Peak between 75 - 91degC 1200rpm
4 YES = 51%CPU 69W CPU …… 95degC ~2000 to 2400 rpm
IMO - not an obnoxious fan but for me and audio 1200 fan is needed. To have the fans ramp up for intensive short term tasks is no trouble though (video encoding).

Did a quick LogicPro X stress test...
106 audio tracks
4 drummers
Compressor, chorus, EQ on every track (300 plugins)
Master with limiter
Reverb
Not representative of what my sessions look like but its a simple stress test to start.
25% steady CPU load - very even. ~80degC and 1200 rpm fan

Looking good so far!

View attachment 705172

Great! I too have decided I am definitely keeping my i7. I don't have professional needs for low ambient audio, but nonetheless background fans on desktop computers do bother me if the noise is constantly or usually there. The Core i7 iMac 2017 just is silent with most daily usage for me.

I have just transferred my 500 GB Of data from my 2010 iMac to my 2017 i7 iMac and during the entire process the computer was completely silent. I guess having a SSD as the main storage helps to keep the heat down inside the case.

As previously mentioned, the times the fan noise has gone up was when I tried to play 4K p60 HEVC 10-bit video in software, and Handbrake video encoding. However, it's not as if I'd really want to be doing software decoding of 4K p60 HEVC 10-bit video anyway, since High Sierra is supposed to bring hardware playback for that (at least within the confines of QuickTime on our Kaby Lake Macs). As for Handbrake's ramping up of the fan, that's fine by me, and I don't do that very often. It doesn't bother me in that context. I'd rather have the 30% faster encoding than be stuck with the slower CPU (which will likely still ramp up the fan in that scenario, albeit to a lesser extent).

BTW, I'm always still impressed how well Handbrake maxes out the CPU. Constantly 750% to 790% CPU usage. Core i7 Hyperthreading for the win.

 

[gardinen]

First testing of i7 for audio

YES tests
Stress test i7 4.2 (at idle ~50degC 1198rpm 10W
1 YES = 15%CPU 27W after 10min Peak between 56 to 80degC moving around
2 YES = 26%CPU 38W CPU after 10min Peak between 60 - 80degC 1200rpm
3 YES = 38%CPU 58W CPU after 10min Peak between 75 - 91degC 1200rpm
4 YES = 51%CPU 69W CPU …… 95degC ~2000 to 2400 rpm
IMO - not an obnoxious fan but for me and audio 1200 fan is needed. To have the fans ramp up for intensive short term tasks is no trouble though (video encoding).

Did a quick LogicPro X stress test...
106 audio tracks
4 drummers
Compressor, chorus, EQ on every track (300 plugins)
Master with limiter
Reverb
Not representative of what my sessions look like but its a simple stress test to start.
25% steady CPU load - very even. ~80degC and 1200 rpm fan

Looking good so far!

View attachment 705172

Very nice research. I'll use my newordered iMac for musicproduction aswell, and ordered an i7 with the 575 GPU instead of 580. I saved about 100€ and hopefully a few lower degrees of temp inside the computer... or maybe not. Will do a report on that when the computer gets here.