The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming

[Kentuckienne]

Sorry Mick

Newbie Tuesday

Steve would never say when it would come
Yes the new Mac a mini would be fun
Guess all day, all night
No release in sight
No one knows...the rumor grows...

Please, please, newbie Tuesday
Who could doubt this time it's true?
Broadwell chip, SSDs both bays
The Mini will be brand new!

It will be on Newbie Tuesday
Time to flex that Mini fu
Apple store will be down, that way
You'll know it has come true ...

Etc.

note to Apple: if you want the bad poetry to stop, leave a new 2014 model Mini in a plain white box on my doorstep. There's plenty more where this came from...

 

[stravedere]

mac mini with arm processor?
http://www.macbidouille.com/news/2014/09/04/rumeur-les-mac-mini-arm-sont-en-approche

 

[DesertSurfer]

Mac Mini Campers already

The caption said iPhone 6, but I think it must have been a typo.

 

[giggles]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the built-in GPU of Broadwell-Y is expected to be sad compared even to the old Ivy Bridge HD4000, right?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8355/intel-broadwell-architecture-preview/3

Taken altogether this means that whereas Haswell-Y was a 2x10EU GPU, Broadwell-Y will be a 3x8EU GPU.

The ramifications of this is that not only is the total number of EUs increased by 20% from 20 to 24, but Intel has greatly increased the ratio of L1 cache and samplers relative to EUs. There is now 25% more sampling throughput per EU, with a total increase in sampler throughput (at identical clockspeeds) of 50%. By PC GPU standards increases in the ratio of samplers to EUs is very rare, with most designs decreasing that ratio over the years. The fact that Intel is increasing this ratio is a strong sign that Haswell’s balance may have been suboptimal for modern workloads, lacking enough sampler throughput to keep up with its shaders.

Moving on, along with the sub-slices front end and common slice are also receiving their own improvements. The common slice – responsible for housing the ROPs, rasterizer, and a port for the L3 cache – is receiving some microarchitecture improvements to further increase pixel and Z fill rates. Meanwhile the front end’s geometry units are also being beefed up to increase geometry throughput at that end.

Much like overall CPU performance, Intel isn’t talking about overall GPU performance at this time. Between the 20% increase in shading resources and 50% increase in sampling resources Broadwell’s GPU should deliver some strong performance gains, though it seems unlikely that it will be on the order of a full generational gain (e.g. catching up to Haswell GT3).

So, Anandtech deems "unlikely" (not even "impossible", just unlikely) for Broadwell GT2 to catch up to Haswell GT3 itself.

I'd guess Broadwell GT2 24EU won't be "sad" compared to IvyBridge GT2 16EU.

Even Haswell GT2 20EU is already sligthly better than IvyBridge GT2:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7047/the-haswell-ultrabook-review-core-i74500u-tested/7

It's safe to say Broadwell GT2 will be better than IvyBridge GT2, even in the constrained 4.5W TDP of Core-M. (probably we should get used to mind-blowing GPU per watt advancements in the x86 space, after all that's what happens in the ARM/powerVR space year after year on ipads/iphones)

If anybody is wondering, IvyBridge "GT3" never came to existence

More importantly however, a tiny Ivy means that Intel could have given us a much bigger GPU without breaking the bank. I hinted at this possibility in our Ivy Bridge architecture article. Unfortunately at the time only Apple was interested in a hypothetical Ivy Bridge GT3 and rumor has it that Otellini wasn't willing to make a part that only one OEM would buy in large quantities. We will eventually get the GPU that Apple wanted, but it'll be next year, with Haswell GT3. And the GPU that Apple really really wanted? That'll be GT4, with Broadwell in 2014.

(from a 2012 Anandtech review; note that something called a "GT4" will only be available with Skylake, the top Broadwell config is still called "GT3")

 

[MarkusL]

There has not been any benchmarks yet that I know of for Broadwell Y but it was predicted by Intel that Broadwell will have a increased IGPU of 30-40% over Haswell.

Reference Article on Broadwell Y
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8355/intel-broadwell-architecture-preview

Right, but isn't that 30-40% within the same "class" of GPU? On the current generation, 7.5W TDP will only buy you "GT1" graphics as referenced in this table of the 2013 categories:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6993/intel-iris-pro-5200-graphics-review-core-i74950hq-tested/2
That's the lowest end "HD Graphics" without any number in the marketing name, found on the Celerons. I thought the 4.5W TDP Broadwell-Y would be some kind of successor to those processors? If it's a 30-40% improvement from that kind of GPU, it's still terrible. But if it's proper "GT2"-style performance and 30-40% improvement on that, then I guess it will comfortably beat the HD4000 in the 2012 Mini.

Do you know for sure what kind of IGPU the Broadwell-Y will have? I didn't quite understand it from that article.

 

[Crosscreek]

Right, but isn't that 30-40% within the same "class" of GPU? On the current generation, 7.5W TDP will only buy you "GT1" graphics as referenced in this table of the 2013 categories:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6993/intel-iris-pro-5200-graphics-review-core-i74950hq-tested/2
That's the lowest end "HD Graphics" without any number in the marketing name, found on the Celerons. I thought the 4.5W TDP Broadwell-Y would be some kind of successor to those processors? If it's a 30-40% improvement from that kind of GPU, it's still terrible. But if it's proper "GT2"-style performance and 30-40% improvement on that, then I guess it will comfortably beat the HD4000 in the 2012 Mini.

Do you know for sure what kind of IGPU the Broadwell-Y will have? I didn't quite understand it from that article.

I don't believe Apple will use Broadwell Core M in the Mini. I think they will use the U Series which has been in the previous Mini's and MacBooks and we will have to wait until Intel releases more information on them.
I'm sure Anandtech will have an analysis when it is made available.

 

[giggles]

I don't believe Apple will use Broadwell Core M in the Mini.

They could use it in the "Micro". Or "Mini Air".

As suggested by the macminicolo tweet

https://twitter.com/macminicolo/status/494205540558327808

 

[Crosscreek]

They could use it in the "Micro". Or "Mini Air".

As suggested by the macminicolo tweet

https://twitter.com/macminicolo/status/494205540558327808

They could offer a fanless Broadwell Y entry level less expensive Micro Mini to bring more people into the Apple eco system.

 

[giggles]

That's the idea. An hockey puck fanless micro-nMacPro.
Priced like a fully configured Intel NUC plus a quality fanless case.

 

[Cape Dave]

That's the idea. An hockey puck fanless micro-nMacPro.
Priced like a fully configured Intel NUC plus a quality fanless case.

MY DREAM! A nice fast i7 in a fanless case that works with PCIe SSD and 32GB Ram and T bolt 2. Plus the usual USB 3.0 HDMI display port etc. And I stress IN A FANLESS CASE THAT WORKS and not at the tippy tippy top of the heat envelope either. I like me a COOL RUNNING machine

Apple, YOU CAN DO IT!

Sorry for caps but I was out of my mind with future excitement from this post.

 

[iMacFarlane]

That's the idea. An hockey puck fanless micro-nMacPro.
Priced like a fully configured Intel NUC plus a quality fanless case.

Bring it. That sounds do-able, usable, and pushes the technology forward, all three things that Apple has made magic with before.

 

[Crosscreek]

MY DREAM! A nice fast i7 in a fanless case that works with PCIe SSD and 32GB Ram and T bolt 2. Plus the usual USB 3.0 HDMI display port etc. And I stress IN A FANLESS CASE THAT WORKS and not at the tippy tippy top of the heat envelope either. I like me a COOL RUNNING machine

Apple, YOU CAN DO IT!

Sorry for caps but I was out of my mind with future excitement from this post.

I could shut my exhaust speed sensor off on IStat Pro.

 

[Mago]

Just reviewed an Zotac Ei750 with iris pro 5200, and I was totally disappointed on its graphics performance on 3D games and apps, simple if you wait for an Mac mini to do some serious 3D work, forget it unless the new mini has some discrete gpu as option.

I compared the zotac ei750 vs the zotac en760 and on 3D games ( I tested FSX on both) the nVidia based en760 turns around the iris pro mani times, simple: no comparison, with full settings and full HD setup the en760 gives about 55fps vs 10 of the iris pro. Also 4K videos plays smooth (30fps) while the 5200 sometimes froze artifacts. (wincrap 8 setup with 8gb ram).

So if you need a Mac for 3D duties, get someone with discrete gpu.

 

[Crosscreek]

Just reviewed an Zotac Ei750 with iris pro 5200, and I was totally disappointed on its graphics performance on 3D games and apps, simple if you wait for an Mac mini to do some serious 3D work, forget it unless the new mini has some discrete gpu as option.

I compared the zotac ei750 vs the zotac en760 and on 3D games ( I tested FSX on both) the nVidia based en760 turns around the iris pro mani times, simple: no comparison, with full settings and full HD setup the en760 gives about 55fps vs 10 of the iris pro. Also 4K videos plays smooth (30fps) while the 5200 sometimes froze artifacts. (wincrap 8 setup with 8gb ram).

So if you need a Mac for 3D duties, get someone with discrete gpu.

How was the noise level on those and was the cpu maxed?

 

[Mago]

How was the noise level on those and was the cpu maxed?

Really both aren't noisy, seems same noise level as the old non retina Mac book pro at full load, you can hear the fans but unless you live on a cave most environment noise use to be higher.

 

[Crosscreek]

Really both aren't noisy, seems same noise level as the old non retina Mac book pro at full load, you can hear the fans but unless you live on a cave most environment noise use to be higher.

I bought the 15"rMBP with Iris Pro in it last October and tried to play some games on it. When the fans started whining and it got hot on my lap, it pissed me off and I packed it up and sent it back.

I bought a Mini and decided to wait until I can find a nice quite machine that is worth the money.

Maybe Broadwell or Skylake.

 

[scottsjack]

I bought the 15"rMBP with Iris Pro in it last October and tried to play some games on it. When the fans started whining and it got hot on my lap, it pissed me off and I packed it up and sent it back.

I bought a Mini and decided to wait until I can find a nice quite machine that is worth the money.

Maybe Broadwell or Skylake.

If you just want to game get an HP ENVY Phoenix 810qe Desktop PC, not as cool as a mini but stupidly more powerful, all for the price of a 2.6GHz mini + 30 bucks, choice of W7 or W8, upgrade to Pro version (a must) is cheap, can even order with lots of RAM and a bigger GPU.

 

[venom600]

I bought the 15"rMBP with Iris Pro in it last October and tried to play some games on it. When the fans started whining and it got hot on my lap, it pissed me off and I packed it up and sent it back.

I bought a Mini and decided to wait until I can find a nice quite machine that is worth the money.

Maybe Broadwell or Skylake.

Wait, what? You taxed the MBP heavily with a game and were surprised it got hot? I hate to break it to you, but that happens during games or heavy work on virtually every machine. New processors aren't going to change that either.

 

[Crosscreek]

If you just want to game get an HP ENVY Phoenix 810qe Desktop PC, not as cool as a mini but stupidly more powerful, all for the price of a 2.6GHz mini + 30 bucks, choice of W7 or W8, upgrade to Pro version (a must) is cheap, can even order with lots of RAM and a bigger GPU.

It's not so much gaming because I do it casually. It's the older I get the less noise I can tolerate unless I'm the one making it.

All I ask for is a Mac that is headless with 4 cores that I can crank up when I want for a little gaming and 4k capable for a future HTPC without spending 3k.

I would go back to a PC but I know what I put up with for 20 some odd years with Windows and I would be kicking myself in the ass for it.

I've have some time before 4K has shaken the bugs out and standards for TV and receivers are finalized so I'll sit back and wait and if I have to I'll get a PC for a HTPC.

----------

Wait, what? You taxed the MBP heavily with a game and were surprised it got hot? I hate to break it to you, but that happens during games or heavy work on virtually every machine. New processors aren't going to change that either.

No I was surprised it made so much noise.

 

[scottsjack]

I would go back to a PC but I know what I put up with for 20 some odd years with Windows and I would be kicking myself in the ass for it.

I'm with you on that point. I would rather do work in Windows but the OS is a real pain to deal with.

The combination of Apple's Time Machine and Carbon Copy Cloner make backing up so much easier and more reliable on a Mac. Besides some of the fun stuff that Mac does it's the backup/cloning and system restoring that keep me in the Mac camp.

 

[Crosscreek]

I'm with you on that point. I would rather do work in Windows but the OS is a real pain to deal with.

The combination of Apple's Time Machine and Carbon Copy Cloner make backing up so much easier and more reliable on a Mac. Besides some of the fun stuff that Mac does it's the backup/cloning and system restoring that keep me in the Mac camp.

Yeh, and thats where running Windows and Linux in a virtual machine comes in handy.

I've really grown to like OSX for a main OS.

 

[BurgDog]

I got tired of waiting

I've been waiting two years for Mac Mini upgrade with decent graphics. Passed on the 2012 because of that and stayed mostly content with my middle of the lineup 2011 2-core. I really don't expect a 2014 Mini now so time to give up waiting.

I found a gently used 2013 6-core Mac Pro for a decent price - it is about 7 times faster and much quieter running Handbrake. A Mac Pro is much much more than what I really need but it is a really great update to my old Mini.

 

[kwijbo]

Right, but isn't that 30-40% within the same "class" of GPU? On the current generation, 7.5W TDP will only buy you "GT1" graphics as referenced in this table of the 2013 categories:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6993/intel-iris-pro-5200-graphics-review-core-i74950hq-tested/2
That's the lowest end "HD Graphics" without any number in the marketing name, found on the Celerons. I thought the 4.5W TDP Broadwell-Y would be some kind of successor to those processors? If it's a 30-40% improvement from that kind of GPU, it's still terrible. But if it's proper "GT2"-style performance and 30-40% improvement on that, then I guess it will comfortably beat the HD4000 in the 2012 Mini.

Do you know for sure what kind of IGPU the Broadwell-Y will have? I didn't quite understand it from that article.

With the current lineup the Y series uses HD4200. HD4200 has the same number of EUs as HD4600 but operates at a lower frequency due to the lower power envelope. Broadwell-Y should be the same - same # of EUs as HD4600 successor but lower frequencies. "Proper" GT2, probably not, but better than HD4000 for sure. My guess would be similar theoretical peak performance (GFLOPS) to HD 4600 but delivered more efficiently in real world usage so the average performance provided by the GPU is higher than HD 4600.

That's the idea. An hockey puck fanless micro-nMacPro.
Priced like a fully configured Intel NUC plus a quality fanless case.

When the current Mini came out in 2010 Apple did crown it the "World's most energy efficient computer". Wouldn't surprise me if they went for that goal again, considering the NUC idles at ~6 watts vs the Mini's ~11.

 

[rols]

mac mini with arm processor?
http://www.macbidouille.com/news/2014/09/04/rumeur-les-mac-mini-arm-sont-en-approche

Nope

 

[iMacFarlane]

If you just want to game get an HP ENVY Phoenix 810qe Desktop PC, not as cool as a mini but stupidly more powerful, all for the price of a 2.6GHz mini + 30 bucks, choice of W7 or W8, upgrade to Pro version (a must) is cheap, can even order with lots of RAM and a bigger GPU.

Unless I forgot how to Google correctly, that HP ENVY Phoenix 810qe is a $2600 computer. That doesn't fit in a discussion about the mini, like comparing apples to aardvarks.