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thank you.

I have to say I'm finding it harder and harder to justify spending the money on a mac.

Whilst a Mac is that bit easier to use and everything "just works" the gap between OS X and windows is narrowing and I think it'll reach a point where its hard to justify spending the extra on a mac over a pc.
 
I'm thinking more and more about just building my own Windows pc. I only really use it for general browsing duties. May play the odd game on it. Apart from that he only other thing is I like how it integrates with everything.

That said I use iCloud backups and have iCloud photos on so all things are kept in sync and never use the continuity features of OS X.

Im sure I could build a decent enough pc for the cost of a moderate Mac mini


For "general browsing duties", a 2012 i5 with 8GB RAM + SSD (or even 16GB without SSD) will be enough.
You don't need to build a Windows PC for that.
At least with El Capitan, everything finally works the way it should (BT, 802.x).

I don't use continuity, either. But I sort of like how, if I enter a location in Maps, it will be the next destination in Maps on iOS.
And I like the integrated unix command line, the integrated ssh-client (with ssh-agent) etc.

Does Windows come with an integrated openssh client+agent?
 
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For "general browsing duties", a 2012 i5 with 8GB RAM + SSD (or even 16GB without SSD) will be enough.
You don't need to build a Windows PC for that.
At least with El Capitan, everything finally works the way it should (BT, 802.x).

I don't use continuity, either. But I sort of like how, if I enter a location in Maps, it will be the next destination in Maps on iOS.
And I like the integrated unix command line, the integrated ssh-client (with ssh-agent) etc.

Does Windows come with an integrated openssh client+agent?


I have no idea what that even is I'm afraid!! :)

I do like the way OS X just works, but you can certainly get more bang for your buck with windows

I also dont use apple maps as i think its rubbish compared to google maps
 
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to be fair I don't have any issues with OSX.
For me its more, do I spend £700 - £800 on a mac mini or do I build a pc? I suspect I could build a pc for less, or more powerful for the same price. ( I accept the mac uses laptop components due to its size) but there is no other desktop option for mac without a monitor. Thats affordable anyway
 
I guess we just have to wait till Summer, but by my reckoning, if Apple is hardly paying any attention to the Mac Pro line compared to previous years, I doubt the Mini is going to receive a lot of love.

And for all of you who are thinking of building PCs - don't go down the Hackintosh route if this is your main build/you need it for mission critical things. Every time there is an incremental update, like from 10.11.2 to 10.11.3, things break. My sound no longer works, and I am having problems putting the Mac to sleep. Furtheremore, to get simple things like iMessage, Handoff etc requires quite a bit of time to get Serial numbers, UUDIDs etc, so all in all, unless it's just a hobby, IMO it's not worth it.
 
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to be fair I don't have any issues with OSX.
For me its more, do I spend £700 - £800 on a mac mini or do I build a pc? I suspect I could build a pc for less, or more powerful for the same price. ( I accept the mac uses laptop components due to its size) but there is no other desktop option for mac without a monitor. Thats affordable anyway

That is, of course, true.
But there's little in the market matching the Mini item-by-item. From a quick look, the best is probably the HP EliteDesk 800 G2 Mini. Available as an i7 version (Skylake), up to 2*16GB RAM, SSD. 2* USB3 at the front, 4*USB3 at the back, 2x DisplayPort. User serviceable.
Still, OS X is worth something (to me).
 
Sure, but it's not really integrated. It's a 3rd party thing.
And then, if I wanted X(11), I needed another 3rd-party Windows X-Server (though, admittedly, QuartzX isn't part of OS X anymore either).

Since Windows is not a base Unix OS Apps such as that are not built in. Linux will work because it is based on Unix same as OS X.

It's just the nature of the beast I guess but I use PuTTY often and it it works well. Most third party apps for Windows that are used by the community are good solid apps just like the 3rd party apps for OS X.

I use to hold a lot of prejudice against Windows from past experience but Windows 10 has proven to be a good solid OS. I still prefer OS X but to tell the truth I could easily live with both Linux and Win 10.
 
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...if Apple is hardly paying any attention the Mac Pro line compared to previous years, I doubt the Mini is going to receive a lot of love.

May well be something to that. They really don't seem to keen on working the headless range.

I was initially encouraged when they released the current Pro, and thought it might indicate more interest from Apple in the headless market, but it hasn't gone anywhere. Looks increasingly like they are going to push the AIO iMac line instead as their main desktops.
 
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May well be something to that. They really don't seem to keen on working the headless range.

I was initially encouraged when they released the current Pro, and thought it might indicate more interest from Apple in the headless market, but it hasn't gone anywhere. Looks increasingly like they are going to push the AIO iMac line instead as their main desktops.

I agree with this idea. Apple is in the screen business. Maybe the only thing that could save the Pro and the Mini would be a new Thunderbolt monitor. Pro and mini buyers would be likely to buy the monitor too. Almost certainly.
 
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The new TB Display will arrive simultaneously with the new MP, I think.

It is my hope that the new mini will be made with enough grunt to support the 5K display also. For this reason, I believe that the new mini will once again use the (base) 15" MBP as the spec for the high end model. *crosses fingers* *prays to several deities* *knocks on wood* *[add your good luck custom here]*
 
Yep. That's why I said "Usually the same as the 13" MBP."

A blog post from Primate labs from a while back suggested a reason behind Apple's thinking in dropping the quad core option when transitioning from the 2012 model to the 2014 model. For what it's worth, the sockets on the dual core U and quad core H series logic boards remain different from Skylake onwards as far as I can see so we can wave goodbye to quad core in the Mac Mini for the foreseeable future as long as it's still based on a 13" Macbook Pro.

While a lot of folks will say that's a big blow, I think that it's more important for new Mac Minis to have better GPUs, even if they are integrated ones, which seems to be the general direction of travel for Apple these days since they seem to view OpenCL computing and retina displays as more important than entering into the additional cores race in the medium to long term.

While Skylake brings us Thunderbolt 3, it's made possible by an additional controller chip (Alpine Ridge) whereas the 'speed bump' successor to Skylake - Kaby Lake - starts arriving late this year with native Thunderbolt 3 controllers on board. Note that the 2015 iMac 27" Retina model has Skylake processors but sticks with Thunderbolt 2 ports. I would take that as a sign that Apple will be adding Thunderbolt 3 capable USB-C ports only with Kaby Lake Macs from late 2016 into 2017.

Thunderbolt 3 is important for Apple as it allows a single cable to drive a 4k display at 60Hz - opening the door for a possible Apple TB3 retina display although we'll still struggle to drive a 5k display without a discrete GPU as existing Iris Pro graphics don't appear capable of driving 5k. And Apple won't want to release a TB3 4k Retina display without every on-sale Mac being able to drive it with one cable.

For the future, then, I would like to think the Mac Mini (as well as any dual core laptop) continue to use decent graphics - Iris Graphics 550 for example - with a view to being able to drive a 4k monitor decently.

We could still hold out hope for the Mac Mini to be pulled into a Mac Pro-like case and give the option of a discrete GPU just so it could drive a retina display or perhaps do a job as a mini graphics station but I've long since given up on the idea of a quad core Mini if the idea is to continue miniaturisation and not to cannibalise iMac sales.

I think the current Broadwell 13" Macbook Pro will probably get a bump to Skylake while remaining with Thunderbolt 2 because Kaby Lake parts won't be ready until 2017.

The Mac mini hasn't been similarly bumped to Broadwell but I would expect it to get a late 2016 Skylake update. The 15" series has only just seen the announcement of suitable Iris Pro Skylake parts for which Apple ignored the Broadwell equivalents last year.

We might not see a full set of Kaby Lake updates until late 2017 but it's interesting to note that Intel have now released details of a Skull Canyon NUC which uses a quad core 45w CPU with Iris Pro graphics.

There could be a glimmer of hope for the folks who want a quad core Mac Mini in the event that Apple choose to use a rumoured i5-6350HQ chip - a 2.3GHz 4 core 45w CPU without hyper threading - in the Macbook Pro 15" series as a base model. This cheaper i5 CPU could be put into the Mac Mini because of the Iris Pro graphics but the whole range would have to move upmarket and we'd be looking at a case redesign for sure due to heat issues and perhaps the introduction of NV.Me SSD to help reduce case size.

Without hyper threading such a CPU would not be a challenge to the higher end iMacs and if you don't offer an i7 option at all or discrete graphics it never will be. The main benefit would be the ability to add a 4k monitor without the hassle of wondering if an Iris Graphics 550 unit will be capable of satisfactorily driving one.
 
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A blog post from Primate labs from a while back suggested a reason behind Apple's thinking in dropping the quad core option when transitioning from the 2012 model to the 2014 model. For what it's worth, the sockets on the dual core U and quad core H series logic boards remain different from Skylake onwards as far as I can see so we can wave goodbye to quad core in the Mac Mini for the foreseeable future as long as it's still based on a 13" Macbook Pro.

While a lot of folks will say that's a big blow, I think that it's more important for new Mac Minis to have better GPUs, even if they are integrated ones, which seems to be the general direction of travel for Apple these days since they seem to view OpenCL computing and retina displays as more important than entering into the additional cores race in the medium to long term.

While Skylake brings us Thunderbolt 3, it's made possible by an additional controller chip (Alpine Ridge) whereas the 'speed bump' successor to Skylake - Kaby Lake - starts arriving late this year with native Thunderbolt 3 controllers on board. Note that the 2015 iMac 27" Retina model has Skylake processors but sticks with Thunderbolt 2 ports. I would take that as a sign that Apple will be adding Thunderbolt 3 capable USB-C ports only with Kaby Lake Macs from late 2016 into 2017.

Thunderbolt 3 is important for Apple as it allows a single cable to drive a 4k display at 60Hz - opening the door for a possible Apple TB3 retina display although we'll still struggle to drive a 5k display without a discrete GPU as existing Iris Pro graphics don't appear capable of driving 5k. And Apple won't want to release a TB3 4k Retina display without every on-sale Mac being able to drive it with one cable.

For the future, then, I would like to think the Mac Mini (as well as any dual core laptop) continue to use decent graphics - Iris Graphics 550 for example - with a view to being able to drive a 4k monitor decently.

We could still hold out hope for the Mac Mini to be pulled into a Mac Pro-like case and give the option of a discrete GPU just so it could drive a retina display or perhaps do a job as a mini graphics station but I've long since given up on the idea of a quad core Mini if the idea is to continue miniaturisation and not to cannibalise iMac sales.

I think the current Broadwell 13" Macbook Pro will probably get a bump to Skylake while remaining with Thunderbolt 2 because Kaby Lake parts won't be ready until 2017.

The Mac mini hasn't been similarly bumped to Broadwell but I would expect it to get a late 2016 Skylake update. The 15" series has only just seen the announcement of suitable Iris Pro Skylake parts for which Apple ignored the Broadwell equivalents last year.

We might not see a full set of Kaby Lake updates until late 2017 but it's interesting to note that Intel have now released details of a Skull Canyon NUC which uses a quad core 45w CPU with Iris Pro graphics.

There could be a glimmer of hope for the folks who want a quad core Mac Mini in the event that Apple choose to use a rumoured i5-6350HQ chip - a 2.3GHz 4 core 45w CPU without hyper threading - in the Macbook Pro 15" series as a base model. This cheaper i5 CPU could be put into the Mac Mini because of the Iris Pro graphics but the whole range would have to move upmarket and we'd be looking at a case redesign for sure due to heat issues and perhaps the introduction of NV.Me SSD to help reduce case size.

Without hyper threading such a CPU would not be a challenge to the higher end iMacs and if you don't offer an i7 option at all or discrete graphics it never will be. The main benefit would be the ability to add a 4k monitor without the hassle of wondering if an Iris Graphics 550 unit will be capable of satisfactorily driving one.
Lots of great info in your post, thank you. These type of posts are why I browse these boards; good info in not too geek talk for me to understand.

The i5-6350HQ looks like the go. Nice compromise of capability without challenging the iMac range too much.
 
The new TB Display will arrive simultaneously with the new MP, I think.

It is my hope that the new mini will be made with enough grunt to support the 5K display also. For this reason, I believe that the new mini will once again use the (base) 15" MBP as the spec for the high end model. *crosses fingers* *prays to several deities* *knocks on wood* *[add your good luck custom here]*

You've probably seen my lengthier post which I was still writing at the time you wrote yours, but looking at the way that Apple have done the 21.5" retina iMac - with Iris Pro 6200 Graphics - I'd say that one way they could do a future Mac Mini is by using a CPU with top end Iris Pro graphics. I'm sure we wouldn't mind having a headless 21.5" Retina iMac in a Mac Pro tribute case. We're more likely to get something smaller, quieter, and less likely to cannibalise the iMac though which is why I took a look at the Skull Canyon NUC.

Who knows what spec Kaby Lake graphics will come with but I think we're probably looking at the next generation Cannon Lake (after Kaby Lake) for integrated graphics that could run a 5k cinema display. We're looking at late 2017 into 2018 in that case but don't forget we might see some (official?) eGPU options of interest by then.

What if the 5k Cinema display came with a built-in GPU capable of running the screen on behalf of an otherwise underpowered USB-C equipped Mac laptop? Before the gamers get excited it just needs to be something capable of running a 5k display decently rather than an AMD 395X with 4Gb of RAM.
 
You've probably seen my lengthier post which I was still writing at the time you wrote yours, but looking at the way that Apple have done the 21.5" retina iMac - with Iris Pro 6200 Graphics - I'd say that one way they could do a future Mac Mini is by using a CPU with top end Iris Pro graphics. I'm sure we wouldn't mind having a headless 21.5" Retina iMac in a Mac Pro tribute case. We're more likely to get something smaller, quieter, and less likely to cannibalise the iMac though which is why I took a look at the Skull Canyon NUC.

Who knows what spec Kaby Lake graphics will come with but I think we're probably looking at the next generation Cannon Lake (after Kaby Lake) for integrated graphics that could run a 5k cinema display. We're looking at late 2017 into 2018 in that case but don't forget we might see some (official?) eGPU options of interest by then.

What if the 5k Cinema display came with a built-in GPU capable of running the screen on behalf of an otherwise underpowered USB-C equipped Mac laptop? Before the gamers get excited it just needs to be something capable of running a 5k display decently rather than an AMD 395X with 4Gb of RAM.

I don't think a Retina Display with GPU could be a thing for Apple. That would really cannibalise the iMac more than a quad core Mac Mini. Also people with iMacs or Mac Pro or even rMBP with dGPU would be paying extra cash for something they don't really need and probably they would end buying another monitor. In my opinion it's not a good idea.

But... eGPU sold by Apple... that would be the big deal for Mac Mini, and laptop users. Maybe even for iMacs if someday in the future they go only iGPU.

PD. Kaby Lake will be the first iGPU to support 5k with one single cable. Other thing will be the performance...
 
Anyone know where I can sell a kidney?

Try your local Butcher shop.;)

This butcher in Royston Vasey might be of interest.....

4695b21019fc7e946c4d0b0517c94d148d734f0d.jpg
 
Since Windows is not a base Unix OS Apps such as that are not built in. Linux will work because it is based on Unix same as OS X.

It's just the nature of the beast I guess but I use PuTTY often and it it works well. Most third party apps for Windows that are used by the community are good solid apps just like the 3rd party apps for OS X.

I use to hold a lot of prejudice against Windows from past experience but Windows 10 has proven to be a good solid OS. I still prefer OS X but to tell the truth I could easily live with both Linux and Win 10.

Well, I use OpenSuse 42.1 as a desktop at work (with LXDE). I rdp into a Windows 7 VDI for Outlook (which is a pain to use, because the Windoze-admins chose the slowest of the slow ESXi servers at work for our VDIs, to make it as uncomfortable for us Linux-desktop users to use...).
Some things work great on Linux. For other things, I'd really like to have a Mac desktop (Spotlight being one thing, OmniGraffle being the other).
Not sure how well the above HP works with Linux and two displays. My current HP desktop with NVIDIA-gpu works nicely (under the circumstances).
 
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