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Guess it depends on the individual use case. With a multi-monitor setup and/or certain scaled resolutions and/or working with 3d objects it’s (too) easy to bring the mini’s GPU to a choking point.

I remember the discussions about stuttering UI when the mini was introduced - something like that should absolutely not happen with a brand new machine.
Yep. There's more to graphics capabilities than video editing. The M1 leans heavily into hardware encode/decode because it's a very common task -- but not the only one.

An M1 mini with 16 GPU cores would be a buy for me. But they don't make one and probably won't for at least half a year. So I'll spend half a year reminding myself that the Studio is overkill but the M1 mini is underkill, while waiting for Apple's next move. Fortunately, I can wait.
 
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Yep. There's more to graphics capabilities than video editing. The M1 leans heavily into hardware encode/decode because it's a very common task -- but not the only one.

An M1 mini with 16 GPU cores would be a buy for me. But they don't make one and probably won't for at least half a year. So I'll spend half a year reminding myself that the Studio is overkill but the M1 mini is underkill, while waiting for Apple's next move. Fortunately, I can wait.
Yes, as mentioned by others, this is the classic Apple move of fleecing the early adopters before the more economical options appear.*

That said, you have to give credit to Apple for releasing the M1 Mac mini way back in 2020, along with an M1 MacBook Air with the same SoC as in the MacBook Pro. It's just that 2020 is 2 years ago now...

*Let's just hope that more economical high end Mac mini option does indeed eventually appear. If would suck if they just cancelled it altogether, but I don't think they will. As you describe, the performance and price jumps from Mac mini M1 to Mac Studio M1 Max are simply too much.

So, when is the next Mac mini coming? I don't think we'll see a Mac mini at WWDC. Mac Pro maybe, but probably not Mac mini. I'm hoping for late summer, before the Back-To-School promotion ends, but I have a feeling it will be October after the end of the promotion, or worse yet, spring 2023 (as Kuo seems to suggest these days).

Maybe both will be true: Mac mini M1 Pro in fall 2022, and Mac mini M2 in spring 2023.
BTW, I was wondering if they'd keep a SKU or two of the high end Intel Mac mini around for the legacy types, even after the high end Apple Silicon Mac mini is introduced. They did this at the last transition. The last of its kind was no longer advertised on the Apple Store online, but there was a link you could click that would take you to a single legacy option for those that needed it. I think they kept the legacy model around for an entire year after the whole line was already transitioned.
 
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Yes, as mentioned by others, this is the classic Apple move of fleecing the early adopters before the more economical options appear.*

That said, you have to give credit to Apple for releasing the M1 Mac mini way back in 2020, along with an M1 MacBook Air with the same SoC as in the MacBook Pro. It's just that 2020 is 2 years ago now...

*Let's just hope that more economical high end Mac mini option does indeed eventually appear. If would suck if they just cancelled it altogether, but I don't think they will. As you describe, the performance and price jumps from Mac mini M1 to Mac Studio M1 Max are simply too much.


BTW, I was wondering if they'd keep a SKU or two of the high end Intel Mac mini around for the legacy types, even after the high end Apple Silicon Mac mini is introduced. They did this at the last transition. The last of its kind was no longer advertised on the Apple Store online, but there was a link you could click that would take you to a single legacy option for those that needed it. I think they kept the legacy model around for an entire year after the whole line was already transitioned.
Well Apple's refurb section currently goes back to 2017 for iMac, iMac Pro, 2018 adds in the Mini, 2019 gives MacBook Pro, iMac, Mac Pro as options and so on.
 
Well Apple's refurb section currently goes back to 2017 for iMac, iMac Pro, 2018 adds in the Mini, 2019 gives MacBook Pro, iMac, Mac Pro as options and so on.
Sure, there's that, but some customers prefer to purchase new. Furthermore, Apple's hardware and software support typically lasts for 5-6 years after discontinuation of the product. If you buy a refurbished item that's already been discontinued for 3 years, that might mean there is support for only another 2 years or so.

As it stands now, we can expect Intel Mac support in macOS until at least 2027, since Intel Macs are still being sold new by Apple.
 
As it stands now, we can expect Intel Mac support in macOS until at least 2027, since Intel Macs are still being sold new by Apple.
With Apple officially finishing the transition of its Mac portfolio to Arm chips within this year, I‘m not sure that this support for Intel machines will get the same attention and resource allocation as the M chip Macs.

Sure - Apple will release bug fixes, security patches and so on, but they’ll probably apply more scrutiny when determining the need for implementing certain changes and enhancements also on the Intel side.

I wouldn’t be surprised if next year’s MacOS will introduce the first few features that won’t run on (all) Intel Macs anymore. And three years after the transition is finished, 2025 might bring the first MacOS that solely supports Arm chips - way before the formal support for Intel Macs ends in 2027.
 
With Apple officially finishing the transition of its Mac portfolio to Arm chips within this year, I‘m not sure that this support for Intel machines will get the same attention and resource allocation as the M chip Macs.

Sure - Apple will release bug fixes, security patches and so on, but they’ll probably apply more scrutiny when determining the need for implementing certain changes and enhancements also on the Intel side.

I wouldn’t be surprised if next year’s MacOS will introduce the first few features that won’t run on (all) Intel Macs anymore. And three years after the transition is finished, 2025 might bring the first MacOS that solely supports Arm chips - way before the formal support for Intel Macs ends in 2027.
Perhaps, but that's not really that important for people who need these for mission critical business usage.
 
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With Apple officially finishing the transition of its Mac portfolio to Arm chips within this year, I‘m not sure that this support for Intel machines will get the same attention and resource allocation as the M chip Macs.

Sure - Apple will release bug fixes, security patches and so on, but they’ll probably apply more scrutiny when determining the need for implementing certain changes and enhancements also on the Intel side.

I wouldn’t be surprised if next year’s MacOS will introduce the first few features that won’t run on (all) Intel Macs anymore. And three years after the transition is finished, 2025 might bring the first MacOS that solely supports Arm chips - way before the formal support for Intel Macs ends in 2027.
We can look back to PowerPC support when the shift to Intel happened. Snow Leopard (August 28, 2009) was when direct PowerPC support ended (Rosetta lasted until Lion) and the first Intel Mac were publicly available January 2006.

The difference between then and now is the refurb store where Macs as old as five years old (2017) which is less than the oldest Macs (2015) that can run Monterey (2022). I think the existence of the refurb store will keep Intel support longer than seen with PowerPC though a cut off at 2025 does seem likely as by that time the only Mac via the refurb store will be M1 and later.
 
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Perhaps, but that's not really that important for people who need these for mission critical business usage.
When we talk about business use, I would expect the majority of Intel-based machines to be switched to AppleSilicon way before official support runs out:
  • Machine investment is fully deprecated after a few years, way before official support ends.
  • Older hardware bears an increased risk of failure, which - as a business - is something you would want to avoid in general and especially for mission-critical tasks.
  • Big software packages should be ported to AS within the next 2-3 years (if not already done), thus offering significant performance improvements.
Besides, I would guesstimate the amount of Intel-mandatory Macs in really mission-critical business usage to be generally low. If you absolutely need Intel for specific tasks, chances are that the Software runs (usually quite well) on Rosetta2, is already ported to ARM or you opt for a PC from the very beginning anyway.

For the remainder, a switch to an ARM Mac is probably a viable (and imho recommendable) alternative, so the prolonged support for Intel Macs may look nice on paper, but probably bears comparatively low relevance for Apple as a company.

Therefore, if someone is still using an Intel Mac for mission critical business usage, I would not rely too much on the longterm Intel support, but rather try to migrate to AS sooner rather than later.
 
When we talk about business use, I would expect the majority of Intel-based machines to be switched to AppleSilicon way before official support runs out:
  • Machine investment is fully deprecated after a few years, way before official support ends.
  • Older hardware bears an increased risk of failure, which - as a business - is something you would want to avoid in general and especially for mission-critical tasks.
  • Big software packages should be ported to AS within the next 2-3 years (if not already done), thus offering significant performance improvements.
Besides, I would guesstimate the amount of Intel-mandatory Macs in really mission-critical business usage to be generally low. If you absolutely need Intel for specific tasks, chances are that the Software runs (usually quite well) on Rosetta2, is already ported to ARM or you opt for a PC from the very beginning anyway.

For the remainder, a switch to an ARM Mac is probably a viable (and imho recommendable) alternative, so the prolonged support for Intel Macs may look nice on paper, but probably bears comparatively low relevance for Apple as a company.

Therefore, if someone is still using an Intel Mac for mission critical business usage, I would not rely too much on the longterm Intel support, but rather try to migrate to AS sooner rather than later.
I would recommend migration to AS earlier than later too of course, but we all know that doesn’t always happen.
 
I think the existence of the refurb store will keep Intel support longer than seen with PowerPC though a cut off at 2025 does seem likely as by that time the only Mac via the refurb store will be M1 and later.

Apple has a clear policy of supporting Macs for at least 5 years after they were discontinued. So, the Intel Mini's that are still being sold should be supported until 2027 or 2028, maybe even 2029 if they continue selling them into 2023. I don't believe Apple had any published policy like this during the PowerPC transition, did it? Now, it's possible that Apple might still repair a 2018 Mini in 2028 even though it can't run the current version of MacOS, although I don't think that usually happens now.

"Owners of iPhone, iPad, iPod, Mac, or Apple TV products may obtain service and parts from Apple service providers, including Apple Retail Stores and Independent Repair Providers, for a minimum of 5 years from when Apple last distributed the product for sale."

 
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Apple has a clear policy of supporting Macs for at least 5 years after they were discontinued. So, the Intel Mini's that are still being sold should be supported until 2027 or 2028, maybe even 2029 if they continue selling them into 2023.
Apple might support them with upgrades but it will likely make them run like poo. I don't expect my Intel 2018 mini to run well much past 5 years. It runs wonderful right now on Monterey and 32 GB memory with a 4k monitor. But she is over 3 years old. Apple definitely wants people like me to upgrade and give them money.
 
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Apple might support them with upgrades but it will likely make them run like poo. I don't expect my Intel 2018 mini to run well much past 5 years. It runs wonderful right now on Monterey and 32 GB memory with a 4k monitor. But she is over 3 years old. Apple definitely wants people like me to upgrade and give them money.
I boot my 2013 iMac off of a 1 TB SSD and that has sped it up substantially - it not longer takes an insane amount of time to boot up (though Apple's patch of the ROM means I have to boot to the internet to get to it boot off the SSD if I have other drive attached). I have plans to eventually replace it with a mini and a monitor (its cheaper).
 
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I boot my 2013 iMac off of a 1 TB SSD and that has sped it up substantially - it not longer takes an insane amount of time to boot up (though Apple's patch of the ROM means I have to boot to the internet to get to it boot off the SSD if I have other drive attached). I have plans to eventually replace it with a mini and a monitor (its cheaper).
We replaced the Fusion drive in our 2013 iMac but it is stuck on Mojave, which is no longer supported. And Safari in Mojave is pretty dated. It's my husband's machine. He likes it. At work he has a 2018 Mac Mini (like mine). We no longer support all in 1 machines after our 2013 iMac had the monitor die and we had to place another monitor in front of it to get it to work. We swapped parts around with another 2013 and made one that worked. The monitor died just after 3 years. Terrible for a $2200 machine. I'm waiting for Mojave to have problems with iCloud as macOS gets upgraded each year and they sometimes mess with iCloud when doing so.
 
I believe from a customer (price/efficiency/power) point of view the M? Pro is the sweet spot, I think Apple knows it too from MacBook Pro sales,
and a M1 pro Mac mini or an M2 Mac mini would kill Mac studio sales

...
A Mac mini with M1 Pro would probably be in the $1500-1800 price range so not sure that it would kill Studio sales.
 
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A Mac mini with M1 Pro would probably be in the $1500-1800 price range so not sure that it would kill Studio sales.

Especially considering for that little bit more you get the M1 Max 10C/24G (itself a $500 upgrade over the M1 8C/14P) and your memory bandwidth is doubled over that of the M1 Pro. You also get 10GbE Ethernet and more USB-C ports plus SD Card. And a much stronger cooling system (so it will run quieter).
 
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Especially considering for that little bit more you get the M1 Max 10C/24G (itself a $500 upgrade over the M1 8C/14P) and your memory bandwidth is doubled over that of the M1 Pro. You also get 10GbE Ethernet and more USB-C ports plus SD Card. And a much stronger cooling system (so it will run quieter).
Then let’s hope for a $1499 maxed out M1 Pro on the mini!

Because I really don’t want a Studio for it’s size and it’s power consumption requirements.
 
Then let’s hope for a $1499 maxed out M1 Pro on the mini!

Considering a Mac mini with an M1, 16GB of RAM and 512GB SSD is $1099, $1499 might get you the 10C/14G M1 Pro (with the 8C/14G being $1399 and the 10C/16G being $1599). If you want 32GB of RAM on top of that, well now you are at $1699-1999 and you would, IMO, be extremely foolish not to go with the $1999 Mac Studio at that point considering how much more performance you get for literally little to no extra money.
 
Then let’s hope for a $1499 maxed out M1 Pro on the mini!

Because I really don’t want a Studio for it’s size and it’s power consumption requirements.
Have you seen details of the Studio power consumption? All I can find is the Apple figure of 370W maximum continuous power, which will likely only be for the M1 Ultra, and in extreme circumstances. The Mini is 150W by the same measure.

When doing simple tasks, I expect little difference between them. Power will be at a higher rate on the Studio for high performance tasks, but it will get through them quicker, so not too much difference there.
 
Have you seen details of the Studio power consumption? All I can find is the Apple figure of 370W maximum continuous power, which will likely only be for the M1 Ultra, and in extreme circumstances. The Mini is 150W by the same measure.

When doing simple tasks, I expect little difference between them. Power will be at a higher rate on the Studio for high performance tasks, but it will get through them quicker, so not too much difference there.
Yea I’ve seen those numbers too, but I’m pretty sure a Pro will still consume less energy than the Max in high performance tasks, right?

Edit: sorry, misread your last line there. That makes sense, but that still doesn’t solve the vacuum of no M1 Pro for desktops. Apple should be pushing down the price of the Mac mini to fill that void in my opinion.
 
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Have you seen details of the Studio power consumption? All I can find is the Apple figure of 370W maximum continuous power, which will likely only be for the M1 Ultra, and in extreme circumstances. The Mini is 150W by the same measure.

When doing simple tasks, I expect little difference between them. Power will be at a higher rate on the Studio for high performance tasks, but it will get through them quicker, so not too much difference there.
That is the rating of the power supply. It is scaled to be able to supply power to the SOC and to all of those thunderbolt/USB ports.

Remember that the M1 Max can be powered by 65 watts on a 14” MBP. You could probably estimate that an Ultra would be OK with less than 130 watts. Even those numbers are based on power supply so it’s likely that the actual SOC power consumption is quite a bit less than that.

Just checked https://cpu-benchmark.org/cpu/apple-m1-max/
They list M1 Max at 30w TDP, so the Ultra would be 60w. I’m not clear what the Max TDP value is about.
  • TDP: 30W
  • Max TDP: 60W
 
Apple should be pushing down the price of the Mac mini to fill that void in my opinion.
Well, that is the difficult question for Apple. They once went nearly bankrupt for trying to offer a multitude of devices at various price points to have all bases covered. First action Steve did after his return in that situation was to cut most of the SKU‘s and have the company focus on a few select core items and do those right.

The iPhone has long been available in one size only - probably because of that experience. With Tim reigning, Apple has opened up a bit and is now offering more options, which is good and bad at the same time, as it’s nice for the customer to have options - but (too much) choice can also be a burden and even scare off potential customers.

And of course an increase in options also raises logistics cost for Apple and bears the risk of option A not playing well with option E when using Software X in revision Z. Therefore Apple has to test the possible combinations and also keep a lot of spare parts available.

Perhaps Apple deems the Pro unnecessary for the both the mini and the Studio at least at this point in time, as its omission helps to distinguish between the mini and the Studio line.

Long story short: I’m not sure that Apple really should introduce yet another option for either Studio or mini. And I’m not sure they will - instead they may wait for M2 (they already know how it performs) and bring that as high-end mini option in summer or fall.
 
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Apple's current strategy is centered around up-selling so it stands to reason they will want to offer the Pro SoC and 32GB RAM options on the Mac mini. Picking one or the other will still save $400-500 over the base Studio, but getting both would put you within $200 or so and at that point, most would just spent that extra and get the base Studio.
 
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