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The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming
- Thread starter GabrieleR
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I think it unlikely that you will see the Ultra inside a laptop anytime soon. Have you seen that heat sink?
I seriously doubt it as one the selling points of the MacBook Pro is its thinness and given the cooling system Apple put on the M1 Ultra I suspect the one for the M2 Ultra will require a similar cooling system which would nix any ideas for the computer being thin.
The supply chain disruption issue is an interesting one. That and the likely recession due to the war in Ukraine is clearly going to affect the decisions Apple may otherwise have made for the next 2 to 3 years.
If Indeed Apple have decided to scrap the M1 Pro mini in favour of saving those CPUs for the 14” and 16” MacBook Pro’s I would suggest that there’s a real reason for keeping M1 for entry level Macs and iPad Airs.
the iPad Pro’s are due for updates soon so I would suggest that those flagship devices will get upgrades along with the MacBook Pro 13” which could really use a differentiator from entry level macs.
i define entry level macs as initially being MacBook Air and Mac mini. The upside of sticking with M1 would mean Apple should release refreshes before the M2 is due out which could mean a release by WWDC.
macbook air would get a form factor improvement - a rumoured bigger screen or greater battery life would be mitigated by sticking with the M1 design. And possibly introducing Wi-Fi 6e. This could be the macbook that is rumoured to be coming.
what would swapping the Mac mini to a smaller form factor do? The only thing I would think of is swapping the Mini into a smaller form factor would get better Wi-Fi reception, potentially also with Wi-Fi 6e. They might also follow the idea of the iMac 24 by going with 4 USB-c ports (2 of which are Thunderbolt), and could we see the return of the power brick borrowed from the iMac Which doubles up to supply ethernet on a higher SKU.
so this leaves you by the end of the year with redesigned entry level M1 macs, M2 in the unchanged MacBook Pro 13“, unchanged MacBook Pro 14 and 16, mac pro announced with some exotic cpu choices, and intel macs discontinued.
I would have to say no to a M2 in an unchanged 13" MacBook Pro, that laptop is a carryover design from the Intel days, it needs to go...
All Mac chassis need to ditch their old "Intel era" designs for fresh designs housing Apple silicon...
I would expect the Mac mini to get a redesign, taking design cues from the Mac Studio...
I feel Apple should drop both the 13" MacBook Air & the 13" MacBook Pro laptops, replacing them with 13" & 15" MacBooks; these new models would take design cues from the 2021 14" & 16" MacBook Pro laptops...
I know many will hate it, but I could also see a taller & deeper variant of the Mac Studio chassis for the new ASi Mac Pro; same bottom intake venting "foot", just oblong rather than round, the extra height and depth of the chassis to allow for the four PCIe slots...
I also think Apple will only offer the base Mn SoC 24" iMac for All-In-One offerings going forward; selling more expensive AIO desktops might not be "good optics" with that being a "double disposable" product...? But even the 24" iMac might go the way of the 27" iMac if Apple releases a stand-alone 24" display...?
Let's hope it does not take the "LOUD FANS" que. Mini does not need a redesign. It is perfect.
All I would expect from a Mac mini (talking external appearance) redesign would be the Mac Studio bottom intake venting "foot" & possibly some front I/O on a Mn Pro-powered model...?
A rainbow of color options for the Mn models and Silver/Space Gray options for the Mn Pro models...?
As for internals, possible changes to a lower powered (than the Mac Studio variant) round PSU, active cooling, and assorted wireless antennas...
The Mac Studio IS the new Mac mini pro.
My guess is the Mac mini will remain as a low end device from here on out.
My guess is the Mac mini will remain as a low end device from here on out.
Maybe the m2 won’t be about power but about even more energy efficiency ?
I think a lot of people will be disappointed by the new mini when it arrives
I think a lot of people will be disappointed by the new mini when it arrives
It's more than likely to be based on the A15 CPU which has extra GPU cores when you consider variants used in the iPhone Pro and iPad mini 6 models (5 vs 4). This makes sense if you then consider that M1 has 8 (or 7 in the binned version) Graphics cores.
Therefore the M2 CPU should expect a slight increase in all the usual benchmarks but the headline change would be extra GPU grunt with 10 GPU cores (or 9 if they are binning them).
This Tweet from Steve Troughton-Smith suggests 6% increase in CPU per core plus significant increase in GPU due to extra cores (although I think he's got confused with amount of performance cores there):
If as suggested the mere existence of the Mac Studio suggests that Apple decided to launch in effect the Mac mini Pro it would make sense for the M1 Pro to not arrive in that model in the short term so that people who want 32Gb RAM in a headless Mac satisfy pent up demand by buying the base model Studio.
With unit shortages due to pandemic likely I think Apple may decide to chase a higher average selling price for Macs rather than try to go for volume sales.
In the medium term, if Apple were to launch an M1 Pro variant with 16Gb RAM base and 32Gb BTO option those buyers may gravitate towards that model instead, but profit levels might be hit by lockdowns etc slowing shipments.
Apple might well be tempted to let the current M1 Mini (along with the MacBook Air) stay on the M1 chipset - they could redesign both to give them sales boosts (and in the case of the Mini perhaps fix the wireless/bluetooth issues).
In both cases the Eurasian database lists one more desktop model (the Mac Studio was the other one) and a laptop which some observers have debated whether it's a refreshed MBA, a new MBP, or a MacBook to replace them both.
I doubt Apple will be needing to fill that database in for the near future with what's going on in Ukraine.
Back to the Mini though, if you look at the shipping delays in the Mac Studio you can see that Apple have problems keeping up with demand which might be lockdown related. There are currently no such problems for the M1 Mini but you do wonder if Apple open up a manufacturing line for the M2 to to use in new products whether they might become susceptible to supply chain disruption early on.
Perhaps Apple had plans to launch product earlier than they have but as it stands if they were to launch an M1 Pro Mini now it might result in cancelled orders for the Studio as people switch down to a potentially less profitable machine.
Having said that, though, has anyone had any thoughts on what the connectivity of an M1 Pro Mini would look like?
We see the following for M1:
Mac Mini
2 USB4 (Thunderbolt 3) ports, 2 USB-A (5Gb/s), HDMI 2.0, Headphone, Ethernet (10Gb/s option)
iMac 24
2/4 USB-C ports (configured as 2 or 4 USB4 ports (Thunderbolt 3), if 4 ports then 2 are 10Gb/s USB 3.1 Gen 2), Headphone, Ethernet (on the Magsafe brick, no 10Gb/s option)
MBA 13
2 USB4 (Thunderbolt 3) ports, Headphone
MBP 13
2 USB4 (Thunderbolt 3) ports, Headphone
When we go to the 14 and 16" MBPs we have (as well as the Magsafe charger):
3 Thunderbolt 4, HDMI 2.0, SD Card slot, Headphone
Some of this could be down to space issues on a laptop, clearly an M1 Max (see below) could drive more ports but the MacBook Pro simply doesn't have the room for them.
Obviously we know from the Mac Studio that the M1 Max runs 4 Thunderbolt 4 ports, 2 additional 10Gb/s USB 3.1 Gen 2), SD card slot, 10 Gig Ethernet, 2 USB-A (5Gb/s), HDMI 2.0, Headphone socket
So would we expect an M1 Pro Mac mini to copy the port selection from the 14" MacBook Pro?
3 Thunderbolt 4, HDMI 2.0, SD Card slot, Headphone
The current Mini doesn't carry the SD Card slot so we might expect that to be replaced by a pair of USB-A (5Gb/s) ports and there might be enough bandwidth left to put Ethernet (with 10 Gig option) on.
The question then is for the completists who would want the 4 Thunderbolt ports that the high end Intel model sported (even though they were run by only 2 Thunderbolt controllers whereas the ARM Macs appear to have one controller per port).
Apple certainly could leave things there because they wouldn't want people too at home on an M1 Pro Mini in case they'd like to be upsold to a Mac Studio.
Yes, he sounds kinda confused there.
I think a reasonable setup for a high end Mac mini would be:
Two Thunderbolt ports (with one controller each)
Two non-TB USB-C ports
Two USB-A ports
All on the back
This 6-port USB/TB setup would right in between the 4-port Mac mini and 8-port Mac Studio. I don’t think they need to make all the USB-C ports Thunderbolt compatible for the Mac mini, esp. since they didn’t for the low end Mac Studio.
I guess eight and a half years is nearly 10. Still a young thing compared to the early 2009 Mac Mini I use every day. I should almost certainly put a new computer on my desk, and will sooner or later, but remain uncertain of whether I go for a new Mac Mini, or an iMac.
No ethernet?
I think what you were replying to was my estimate of the port selection on an M1 Pro powered Mini.
Since I don't think we'll get one, if Apple decide that the M2 CPU will go into the Mini the carry over there would be:
2 USB4 (an assumption carried over from M1, in effect they are Thunderbolt 3 ports)
Ethernet (with 10 Gig option)
2 USB-A (5Gb/s)
Headphone
And it makes an M1 Pro SKU more unlikely as the performance gap would be a bit smaller.
Apple would only dispense with Ethernet on the Mini if they think 'pros' would have gone direct to the Mac Studio and they were sure they had fixed the radio issue with a case redesign. If they got rid of the 10 Gig option which had only been latterly added to the M1 Mini it might also mean the redesign has no space for the port, potentially if they are using the iMac 24 PSU which has regular Ethernet built in on non-base SKUs.
The iMac 24 M1 appears to have more bandwidth by default with 2 USB3.1 Gen 2 (10Gb/s USB-C ports). But that comes with wireless keyboard and mouse so the assumption is users wouldn't need USB-A while ethernet is missing because that is provided through the power brick.
That's why the logical conclusion - along with the more expensive Mac Studio - is to give the user USB-A ports in case they are rocking traditional USB keyboard and mouse. And it would be silly to deny the opportunity to upgrade an onboard ethernet port to 10 gig as a BTO option rather than expect people to spend money on a Thunderbolt to 10 Gig ethernet dongle after the fact.
I'd be happy to wait it out for an M2 Mac mini if I was in the market for one - a couple extra graphics cores might come in useful.
I was ignoring the other ports and was just talking about USB/TB ports. So:
Mac mini low - 4 USB ports
Mac mini high - 6 USB ports
Mac Studio - 8 USB ports
Well, I hope you are incorrect.
I expect to see a high end Mac mini category, this year in fact, although it may not totally reflect what the high end Intel Mac mini was compared to the low end Intel Mac mini.
To be honest, I don't actually care what SoC it uses, whether it's M1 Pro, M2, or M2 Pro. It would be good for some users though if it had an SoC that supported 32 GB RAM.
As for HDMI, I'd like to see Apple finally implement HDMI 2.1, but I'm not expecting it just yet.
This would really be down to the SoC in use, we have no idea if the MacBook Pro 14/16 port selection is due to limits with the SoC or they ran out of space on the laptop.
To be fair, the high end SKU Intel Mini lingering around is a bit unusual - I fully expect it to be discontinued like the 27" iMac by the end of the year or when Apple find a suitable replacement.
There's so many permutations of what Apple could do that it could get silly - I've already posited several ideas in this thread and others.
For example here's another one: - what if Apple decide to continue selling the MBA and Mini with M1 CPU and all - they are entry level items but Apple do what they do when iPhones get superseded - the old models continue but at a lower price and limited upgrade options - for example they might actually stop offering the top tier 2Tb storage option, more drastically they could stop offering 16Gb RAM as an upgrade.
The Eurasian database suggests another laptop and another desktop is coming since the Mac Studio was released as the first of the 2 desktops suggested.
So here's another 2 theories:
The new laptop is actually an M2 MacBook Pro and it's this that gets the redesign. No need to go into specifics because that's another can of worms as soon as you get to the Touch Bar. I just think it would sell better if the 2 Thunderbolt ports were at either side of the machine rather than both on the left side.
The new desktop is actually an M2 Mini which is redesigned to fix the radio issues and has the full gamut of options but starts with 16Gb RAM and 512Gb storage at the $1099 price point, a second SKU might have 16Gb and 1Tb SSD for $1299. The same selection of ports and BTO options from M1 would be available with the M2 model.
Assuming Apple won't be launching any more M1 xxx products this year (wouldn't an M1 Extreme CPU be a crazy way to market a Mac Pro?) then the road is clear for an M2 machine to be launched without confusing punters.
This would also serve to improve the average selling price of the 'Mac mini' range but would the design change be significant enough to warrant a name change? Would selling it in colours other than space grey and silver help?
I would then say that when M3 comes along the original M1 machines would be quietly dropped and M2 becomes entry level when the Air gets that CPU and the M2 mini fills lower SKUs with a 256Gb SSD and 8Gb options at some point in the future.
I have been going over the numbers for a Mn Pro Mac mini, and I will finally admit defeat...! ;^p
At this point it seems the only logical solution might be for the Mac mini to remain the domain of the base Mn SoC, and the Mn Pro SoC is added as a low-end option for the Mac Studio chassis...?
A Mac Studio with the following specs could be the new entry-level (for the Mac Studio, not overall):
At this point it seems the only logical solution might be for the Mac mini to remain the domain of the base Mn SoC, and the Mn Pro SoC is added as a low-end option for the Mac Studio chassis...?
A Mac Studio with the following specs could be the new entry-level (for the Mac Studio, not overall):
- Double-binned M1 Pro SoC
- 8-core CPU (6P/2E)
- 14-core GPU
- 16GB LPDDR5 SDRAM
- 512GB NVMe SSD
- $1099
- M1 Pro @ $999
- M1 Max @ $1999
- M1 Ultra @ $3999
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I'd be fine with a retained M1 base model Mac mini at a cheaper price point along with mid-tier M2 model, but that M2 model would need some reason to exist, such as additional ports and/or 32 GB option and/or case redesign (although I'm not optimistic for the case redesign given that the Mac Studio just looks like an absurdly tall Mac mini with extra ports and extra vent holes). Having just a small incremental performance improvement wouldn't be quite enough IMO.
eg. Mac mini 2022:
M1 with 4 USB ports, with a small price drop.
M2 with 6 USB ports and perhaps more storage, and maybe even the option of 32 GB.
But what happens when M3 comes out? Do they convert the M2 to the bottom tier and remove 2 USB ports, and make M3 the mid-tier?
That doesn't really make sense to me, so I see the different tiers using different classes of chips:
M1 Mac mini discontinued
M2 with 4 USB ports at the same price as the previous M1 Mac mini.
M2 Pro with 6 USB ports at roughly the price points of the Intel Mac mini.
BTW, the REvil Quanta ransom leak from last year showed the existence of the J374 and J375 machines. J375 was later indicated to be Mac Studio, but J374 has never been released as far as we know. I would bet a dollar that J374 is M1 Pro, but got axed, possibly due to supply constraints.
9to5mac also claims there exists J473 and J474, which is corroborated by Bloomberg, and those would correspond to M2 and M2 Pro Mac minis. In fact, Bloomberg states that right in their article.
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Mac mini case redesign would probably be external cues from the Mac Studio (that bottom intake vent "foot"), and internal changes (round PSU with but lower wattage, improved antennas, improved active cooling)...
The most drastic change I can suggest is that the M1 model stays in the lineup but aside from the 2 pre-existing SKUs there are no more BTO options (it's 8/256 or 8/512).
If you want 16/512 you buy the M2 model and BTO extra storage or 10gig ethernet from there.
When the M3 comes out the M2 model suddenly becomes entry level and you can only buy it with 8/256 or 8/512 - the M3 model starts at 16/512 and so on.
The case design of the M2 continues with M3, potentially with different colours.
I wouldn't get too attached to the number of ports - I think the Mx entry series will stick with the tried and tested formula of 2 Thunderbolt ports, 2 USB-A, Ethernet, HDMI 2.0, and headphone. Nothing would need to change on the Mini and people wanting more ports have a Mac Studio to migrate to - or they can buy a USB-C/Thundebolt hub.
You may have a point with the the potential axing of certain models, these may not have been marketing decisions but rather related to supply chain delays due to COVID/war. So there's no point being hissy about Apple making 'bizarre' decisions - it might be the best they can do with shortages of M1 Pro CPUs at the moment - future plans may change and Apple may change direction again once the supply chain rights itself.
Certainly they would want to ensure a steady supply of M1 Pro for the highly profitable MacBook Pros. Maybe by the time M2 Pro comes out they might be able to fit a product in - be it a new entry level M1 Pro Mac Studio or an M1 pro Mac mini.
The proof will come when we see that the m2 mini looks like - re-using the existing M1 case still offers the chance to fully use the heat profile available to the tried and tested M1 Mini case which was designed to cope with an i7 desktop CPU, but if the M2 Mini looks barely able to cool the M2 and the PSU isn't capable of powering M1 Pro it might explain everything we need to know about the direction of travel.